please-share-skeptiko3

Miguel Conner on rewriting the Gnostic history of Judaism and Christianity.

 

Subscribe:

Subscribe to Skeptiko with iTunes
email-subscribe
Subscribe to Skeptiko with YouTube
  skeptiko-Join-the-Discussion-3

Click here for Miguel Conner’s website

Click here for forum Discussion  

skeptiko-532-miguel-conner the dead sea scrolls were a treasure map

Clip: Lord. I’m not worthy to each your flesh, not worthy to drink your blood. Okay. I just come out of Kentucky. Right. But it just doesn’t work for me. I mean, if I do something wrong, I just want to pay for it. So I do my own penance for my own sins. What do you say? Huh?

That’s a clip from a very hold Martin Scorsese movie mean streets. It’s Harvey could tell there, and Scorsese is going to come up a couple of times in this introduction to my interview with the excellent Miguel Connor. This is kind of part two of an interview. We did just a few weeks ago.

And in this part two, I pulled Miguel back into my ongoing fascination with the conspiracy surrounding. The origins of Christianity. So without getting too far into the weeds, which I don’t think we can avoid getting too far into the weeds on this topic. Martin Scorsese has always been fascinating to me.

Is obviously an incredible filmmaker. But he’s also someone who is playing out in his art, the larger Christian drama, , the questions of good and evil, the questions of what are we supposed to do with our lives and our sins and all the rest of that. But he’s not only playing it out in this artistic, metaphorical archetype kind of way. He’s also a practicing Catholic he’s meeting with the Pope and he buys into that stuff.

I mean , here’s a clip from an interview he gave about his faith and in particular, his faith as a Catholic.

Clip: I think it’s the depth of fame. It’s where it’s the struggle for the very essence of faith. The vehicle and one takes towards faith can be very helpful.

A church is tuition of the church, sacraments. Uh,

Alex Tsakiris:Yeah. Um, kind of with red up until the end there, right up until the vehicle part, what if the vehicle Christianity, Catholicism.

Judaism the Bible. What if that vehicle isn’t what you’ve been told it is.

What if the real vehicle sounds more like this? A bunch of Roman generals getting together in a little cave that they carved out underneath the Vatican. That is the cult of Mithras secret society. Plotting how they’re going to run the next PSYOP. And even though Scorsese didn’t have a microphone on that conversation, I would suggest he came pretty close in his movie. The Irishman in in-particular in this clip.

We’re the modern day instantiation of the cult of Mithras. that being the Italian mafia.

Are plotting the assassination of Caesar. I mean the temper, I mean the president of the United States JFK. Remember this clip.

[00:02:52] clip: between Bobby and the FBI possess all the time is go fucking crazy. Doug, Jimmy, I’m sorry for his troubles. The old time has spoke to the old man. The old man taught this on Jack and he told them, don’t forget who the fuck he owes. He knows who the fuck he owes.

Alex Tsakiris: So maybe I’m right about the Josephus slash Spazy and sigh up.

I think I make a pretty good case, but maybe I’m right. Maybe I’m wrong.

The real point is that it matters. It matters in some fundamental way. If we’re going to talk about this here and now reality, I mean, on another level as our excellent guest. Miguel con or brings us

Back to at the end. Fundamentally, it doesn’t matter, but it does matter listen to this show, but it doesn’t matter. Listen to this clip.

[00:03:43] Miguel Conner: The game doesn’t change.

The most important thing is you’re waking up and your inner flame or soul or consciousness, that’s the most. I tell people, it doesn’t matter if you walk out today and you see big foot or you see an alien ship land, or you find out that the Rockefellers are still more shipping me through, as in ruling are the United States government, your job is still the same, which is to wake up and find out what your purpose is and move there because, , the other things in a way it’s fun, but compared to infinity, to, as you say, extended consciousness and all that, it’s a drop in the bucket. You know, don’t lose sight of the big game, which is who you are, which is just an amazing individual that has purpose and meaning in this world.

Alex Tsakiris: Stick around for mine. Every with Miguel Connor.

and please I’ll put out the plea again, share this show. I think this is such an interesting thing that we’re working on. I want to work on it together. I want to hear from other people. In this community who can either punch holes in this theory or add support to it in some way, share this interview with anyone you think would be interested in hearing it. I have a bunch of news, ways of sharing and interacting.

On the skeptical website, go there and check it out. And please join me in this fun, fun, fun discussion. Here’s my interview with Miguel Connor.

[00:05:11] Alex Tsakiris: Nice. Okay. And I say that Miguel, cause, uh, I want to pivot a little bit and I might even break this into two parts because , I am talking to Miguel Connor from an byte Gnostic radio, and we just had a great chat about his.

New book, 10 snackable meditations. And now I want to pull them in a totally different directions. I felt like I needed to pause. Miguel is one of my go-to people for these kind of book projects. I feel compelled even if no one reads them, no one reads books. So I don’t know how you’re going to do with your book, but I think this is really, really such a, uh, an interesting topic for me and it’s right up Miguel’s alley.

So this is going to be a little bit inside baseball. If you like that, , then you’re going to might, might enjoy it if you don’t then you might not. So Miguel, I did kind of tip my hand here a little bit in terms of what I wanted to talk to you about, but. I’ve been seeing it almost as a Caesar’s Messiah 2.0, I love Joe at well.

And I just have a lot of respect for him. He’s been on the show even though he’s not responding to my emails right now. Cause maybe the last time I had him on, I hit him too hard with the ET thing and not everyone is not, everyone is as open as you are. Like I said, you can throw you in the middle of the pool and you swim to the side.

I’m going to jump right into a really important quote that I think is the springboard for this whole discussion. And again, folks inside baseball here. So I don’t feel the need to kind of bring everybody up to speed. A point is what is the origin, the true origin of Christianity and is Christianity best understood first as a conspiracy.

Theory as a PSYOP, as an operation, a way to control the population, which the Romans were so, so adept at is that the first way that we should consider it, that doesn’t mean that you can’t have a personal spiritual relationship with Christ consciousness. I mean, one, no one can tell you, you can’t, you don’t need me to give you the permission, but number two, I I’m convinced by the evidence that that is in whatever respect we want to call genuine, that is genuine.

That’s real. I don’t know how that works, but it certainly seems to be true that you can have a genuine, personal, spiritual relationship with Jesus that is completely separate from this And when I say this, I mean, none other than the writings of Josephus. and the quick history reminder, Josephus is the primary source we have for this history. And even the idiot, historians who write about Josephus, admit that he’s a terrible source in one, in some respects, he’s obviously biased in all these ways, but then they say, well, gee, I know we lost our keys out in the parking lot, but the light is so much better over here under the street lamp.

Can’t we look over here. Well, no, you can’t he’s discredited, but here’s what he wrote in war of the Jews. And I would suggest deep inside baseball. Now this is the first PSYOP. This is the one that Joe from Caesar’s Messiah missed. He missed this. He, he he’s aware of it, but he doesn’t point out the significance of it.

Josephus writes to his brethren, . , but what more than all else, incited them to war that has incited the Jews to rebel. Cause this is, again, this is Josephus writing as he has joined Vespasian so some people consider that a turncoat.

I don’t know what you call it, but the Romans land in Galilee and they put the sword to this guy’s head and say, okay, dude, what do you think you want to live? Or you want to die back to your thing earlier? Do you want the million dollars or do you want to live till tomorrow? And he says, you know, I like living.

So he is then turns to writing to his, his audience, the Jews, and he from the beginning says, I am the super Jew. I know more about I’m a better Jew than anyone else. Cause I’ve studied more. The other thing he says in this writing is I’m going to tell you the truth, not like these other historians out there.

I’m going to tell you the truth. Those are Josephus his own words and where the Jews. Back to the thing, , but what more than all else incited them to war? Was it ambiguous? Oracle, likewise found in their sacred scriptures to the effect that at the time one from their country would become ruler of the world.

Homicida the Messiah, this, they understood would mean someone of their own race. And many of the wise men when astray in their interpretation of it, , all those Jewish elders at the temple. They went astray. Josephus is telling the general population in Judea, the Oracle, however, in reality, signified the sovereignty of the spazy in the Spacey and is emperor he’s Caesar, right?

Caesar. He’s the new Caesar. He’s the new guy in town. Who has proclaimed emperor on Jewish soil. So what he’s saying is, Hey, you know what? You miss this little trick in there. When our, our Jewish faith, all our books said that the Messiah would be a Jew. Of course, they, they just missed it a little bit.

What they really meant is that would come from Jewish soil and this guy, this Bayesean, he landed here. Of course, he landed here to slaughter all of us, but he wasn’t on Jewish soil. When it all happened. My point is this cannot be understood to me as anything other than a PSYOP. There, there can’t be anything authentic about this.

[00:11:03] Miguel Conner: Oh, yeah, there’s no doubt about that. I mean, uh, I guess I should quote Philip K Dick’s famous a dictum. The empire never ended. , even if you don’t take it, literally, the Romans really created the ultimate, , you might say system for control and they had complete control over everything. I mean, for example, magic the Romans over regulated magic to the point that it just didn’t work and they had their hands, they knew magic could be dangerous in the hands of a population you had to be like in the outside.

So there was nothing the Romans had control over everything. And this sort of template has been borrowed by empire after empire and, uh, the scholars, but even before Joette, well, scholars always said, it’s so obvious that Luke, the gospel of Luke borrows heavily from Josephus, that the acts of the apostle.

Again, it’s all Josephus, whoever Luke is just borrowing things and putting it with Josephus. So, but the question has to be is, uh, well, there’s no doubt that the Roman fingers are on Christianity because the Romans were smart. They knew they had to control there’s evidence of them controlling other religions.

There were, uh, The question is really when and at what time, I mean, for example, we quoted Augustine in, uh, this, our first half Alex and Augustine famously said, Christianity has always existed since the beginning of time. So what is he, what is Augustine talking about? Well, he’s kind of hedging his bets or stretching things.

In other words, the idea of this mystery, Colt of a rising dying God-man, whether it’s at his or a Cyrus or some of the many other dying and rising signifying the renewal of the land, the renewal over your soul, the rebirth, all that had always existed throughout before the Roman empire, before the Greeks.

And that was going around. Uh, Christianity was, you might say the Jewish manifestation of this, a mystery called the rising and dying Godman. We’re getting into a cheriya S sort of domains and a at-will and a cherry, a agreed on a lot of things, but disagreed on a lot of things. So when did this Colt come in and when did the Romans say, uh, what’s the name of the guys who did that book?

, but they put out the book a couple of years ago where they even bring archeological evidence that the visitations were creating or infiltrating Christianity because they’re low their, their seals and everything were used by Christianity before even the Jewish war.

, but they think that Paul was probably not part of this, that there was also a, another, that part of Christianity was still offering this mystery Colt and hadn’t been, uh, completely. Infected by the Roman powers. And that Joe at-will himself says that the Gnostics were an answer to the Roman corruption of Christianity because their writings are so full of parody.

They’re making fun of the Jewish orthodoxy. They’re making fun of the Roman government. They’re, they’re very, in a very subtle way. They’re mocking what Christianity had become and the power of the Roman empire. So it’s a matter of when it happened. I mean, my issue is that people always assume that when Christianity came out, you had the four gospels, John mark, Luke and Matthew, but that’s very far from the truth.

I mean, you had Marcien in the second century. Saying, we need a Bible. We need a coded document, a teaching document for this religion. And Marcien went with his idea of, uh, the letters of Paul, a few and Luke and his, his version of the gospel of Luke Marcy. And also believe we should abandon Judaism and Christianity should be completely like a new religion.

And there’s two gods. There’s a God above God. And then there’s the Jewish God. And of course that pissed off the early church in the middle of the second century. But. We didn’t. Most of Christianity didn’t have this idea of four gospels. Now you have to go to erroneous around 180 a D he says, all right, we’re going to get some gospels.

And I am picking four gospels and they don’t have names. I’m going to give them names. John Matthew, Luke and John Matthew, Luke and Paul, not Paul, John Matthew, mark, and Luke. And I’m going to give them names, but then you find out when you read the letters of, uh, Aaron Neha is in 180, he’s already in the pocket of the Roman emperor comedies from a gladiator, you know, the corrupt little shitty shit.

You know, Marcus are rarely as a son, he’s in the pocket of the Roman power. So you’re already seeing there in the power. So the question, what I’m trying to say with this long winded discussion is yes, the Roman. Got ahold of Christianity. The question is when and how much did they get it? Because again, the idea that there was four gospels as a second century idea.

[00:16:27] Alex Tsakiris: See, I don’t think that’s really the question I, because, and I think that’s what that quote that I just offered from Josephus. It pulls us in a different direction. Let me play for you a clip from a very excellent historian, Adrian Goldsworthy, who I interviewed on the show. And, uh, this will kind of lead us into a related discussion, but a little bit different discussion as well.

If you write about Britain, about Caesar written about Antony and Cleopatra, Alexander the grave, you’ll never quite know what someone else was thinking when they do something. The danger is that you create an image of what you think Cesar was like, or Cleopatra was like. And then when you come to a gap in the source, you fill it in with, well, this is what my Caesar would have done.

So that’s a great one to start with. And then there’s another one I want to play from you a couple more. I want to play from here, from there. Here’s what I think we’re doing with this. We know how the game. We know that Christianity comes to dominate the world on every level, not just on a spiritual level, but on an economic level, on a human suffering level, all these ways.

We know how the game ends. So we’re always crippled by that in putting the pieces together. What I read in Josephus there is these guys. Weren’t that smart. I mean, if you look at what a half-assed attempt, this was to run a PSYOP,

[00:18:03] Miguel Conner: yeah, it didn’t work. I mean the

second tree, they rose up again, middle of the sec, they rose up again and Hadrian had to destroy Israel and Christianity was not even a big player until the what? Third, fourth century. It was sort of understanding

[00:18:19] Alex Tsakiris: Let’s process that a little bit differently, because the way that I’d say is, if you look at this and you go, what kind of harebrained scheme is this?

You, you

[00:18:27] Miguel Conner: think exactly which, which is all the time

[00:18:34] Alex Tsakiris: to me, that’s just making the point. You know, you don’t have to be good. It’s the kind of throw it against the wall and see what sticks kind of thing. And that’s how this looks to me, the idea that we’re going to get Judea, which has been a real pain in the ass, but mind you, they’re not the biggest pain in the ass by any means.

And again, our history now always wants to write it up as if, oh my God, those damn Jews were so tough. Well, maybe they were tough, but they weren’t any more tough than five of the other provinces you’re fighting against that just is written up because that becomes the story. Judaism. Here’s the, here’s the truth bomb.

Judaism, this stupid thunder, God minor, little religion has. Business being dragged through history. The only reason it is dragged through history is because Roman PSYOP number two, which we can’t assume they imagined would be as , nearly as effective as it was, but it really took off and they got the pieces fell in place and they co-opted this rising new thing called Christianity.

They didn’t even care what it is. And Hey, you need another, you need the villain in there. Well, the Jews, we washed our hands of it and those fricking Jews, they killed Jesus growing up in Chicago in the Greek Orthodox church. I don’t know why we didn’t like the Jews, but I just had a sense as a kid. We didn’t like them because they killed Jesus kind of thing.

We’ve dragged that for 2000 years. But the point is, when you look at this original PSYOP, you see some of the things that you’re saying is that. Of course, this was a silly PSYOP. It had no business working, you know what? The second one, the Christian signup was just as silly. It had no business working, but it did work, but let’s be mindful of what Adrian Goldsworthy is saying and not look back on the whole thing and try to put all the pieces together as if to say, well, Judaism, but a wonderful tradition with the thunder God and follow all these rules and spin around three times.

And do you know, it’s just, it’s just more of the silliness and what Christianity emerged out of that is completely designed to control the population. As we saw Constantine, can you get a less authentic spiritual player than, than Constantine? He certainly wasn’t Christian, whatever the hell he was. So that’s the level of deconstruction I want to do on this thing.

And I know I’ve laid a lot on the table, but you can kind of see where I’m kind of pushing back on the, the narrative that we’ve been conditioned to kind of by.

[00:21:06] Miguel Conner: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Again, you have to look at everything as I’m learning everything you thought you knew is false. Everything you learned right after is false.

I mean, it just, it continuously goes, and I should add to this, I think to the Romans, it was important because the, the second temple. Was a huge cash cow. It was one of the biggest buildings in the world. They were ma they were making a ton of money from taxes. So they did have some vested interests, and then they decided, oh, screw it.

This is too much of a pain in the butt. Let’s get rid of it. Yeah. For your listeners. Uh, watch that movie, um, era America with Tom cruise, which kind of shows you what CIA does. They just throw money. They have so much money. The Romans were doing that with the experiments. So it’s a question of why Christianity is some have said, uh, an exclusive religion was probably better to work with things.

Some have said the cold to me through us was becoming so PA it was much more popular than Christianity, but the problem with the cult of Mithras is that it was a Roman soldier, religion. It was very popular and it had Persian origins and it might’ve been like, oh shit. What if Mithras is a Persian PSYOP?

And the Parthians are going to use. To bring down the Roman empire. So we need a bulwark, we need something to counter it. So we’re going to create this God or this religion. That’s pretty much very similar to me through us, you know, the, the host and the sitting down and the formalities and all that. So that’s another, uh, idea that definitely has to be explored of why Christianity became what it is, because like you said, it was, uh, uh, again, Hadrian had to destroy Israel because the PSYOP didn’t work with the Jews.

Christianity was just a small religion that Romans and Greeks and others scoffed at until the third, fourth century and how it became true. And in fact, even then the idea of Christianity being this world player is kind of false. Alex. Uh, you’ve had, uh, Diana on your show and she’s actually her first job besides being one of the leading authorities on you.

Ufology was a Catholic, uh, Scott. And she said that the Roman Catholic church that we know didn’t really happen until the 12, 13 century, it was a very loose, a real relaxed people went to church maybe once a month. Uh, the church didn’t have as much power. The Pope wasn’t, even in Rome, he was in France. It was only until the inquisition and the crusades that Rome, that the Catholic church became the sort of corporation that we know about world domination dominating and all that.

And before that you had, it was lose. You had the Byzantine empire, which had his thing, you had all these different sex going on and eliminating each other and buying for money. So even our idea of this holy church popping up and ruling the world and killing witches and all that that’s that, that didn’t happen until the middle ages.

So it’s interesting how, um, yeah, how we learned these things.

[00:24:21] Alex Tsakiris: Let me throw a couple of. Clips on the table.

So the, the point that you’re making, there is something that, , me and David Mathison talks a lot about, and that is the, the Mithras called the Mithran cult. And I think it’s best understood. And David certainly agrees with this as a secret society, rather than, than a cult or religion. It was a bunch of soldiers getting together, deciding who are they going to assassinate?

And I think it’s been copied over and over and over again throughout history. These guys, you know, when Vespasian takes power, becomes Caesar, they had gone through a period of a year where they had assassinated . For different emperors. So they’d come in and the secret society would get together and say, nah, don’t like him so much.

Boom. He’s gone next. One’s gone. And they were the ones ruling. I mean, does this sound a little bit like today, here’s a clip between Bobby and the FBI possess all the time is go fucking crazy. Doug, Jimmy, I’m sorry for his troubles. The old time has spoke to the old man. The old man taught this on Jack and he told them, don’t forget who the fuck he owes. He knows who the fuck he owes.

Let me jump in here for just a minute and explain

 

something.

Because I think I kind of threw Miguel off a little bit with that clip and maybe I threw you off too. That’s a clip from the Irishman and that’s Joe Pesci and Robert de Niro. And to me, this is like listening into the cult of Mithras. This is listening into these guys who got together, who really ran the secret society

that brought about the phony Christianity that we have. So I kind of explain that a little bit to Miguel. And then I pivoted over to a clip from David Mathison and

the interview we did about all this good old Roman PSYOP stuff.

Here we are talking about the dead sea scrolls and in particular. The copper scroll

[00:26:23] Alex Tsakiris: It was all rolled up on copper.

And so all of the. He scrolls or found the dead sea scrolls found in the 1940s fragments of over 900 texts, manuscripts, and in thousands of pieces like jigsaw puzzles discovered in the forties and then given into the hands of an international group of scholars who kept the dead sea scrolls, basically under wraps for their entire lives.

They didn’t let anyone see anything, but there’s one scroll known as the. The copper scroll and you see it on the right-hand side of your screen, it looks very different than the written scroll. The copper scroll. It was, it was all rolled up on copper. And so all of that, they had to cut it in part. And so that’s why these pieces now look kind of like, like a half of a tube.

What is the copper scroll? It’s basically the list of treasure. This is how it reads. This is the first words of the copper scroll. Not the part that I’m showing by the way, that’s like piece number 18, but on piece one, it says in the ruin that’s in the valley of ACOR, under the steps with the entrance at the east.

So he’d go to the ruins, find the entrance that’s on the east. Then under the steps, a distance of 40 cubits, a strong box of silver and it’s vessels with a weight of 17 talents, which by the way, a talent at that time, new Testament talent, or that period of talent, 129 pounds. So that’s 129 pounds of silver times 17.

That’s all. Okay. So, uh, still, still some more. I gotta throw on the table since I have Miguel here, but you see where I’m going with this? The first clip, the reason I played the long Joe Peshy clip is that’s what’s happening in Rome. That’s the meeting of the Mithras cult. That’s how they talk. And that’s how modern day guys talk about.

We’re going to knock off the fucking Kennedys. We’re going to do this. We’re going to decide who’s in control. What Mathison is adding, which I think is. And this is the contrast to what you’re talking about, right. Is the spiritual, when did Christianity come and what about it cost this? Hey, I I’m down for all that, but first don’t we need to understand the more, , materialistic archaeological kind of history and the human history of what we did.

Here’s another interview that just shook my world. I’ll pull it up on the screen. And it’s a guy named David Brody and he wrote a book called America. And what he found was all this archeological evidence of the Romans being in America in the second century. But the connection to it is much, much more interesting because what he says is in that second.

Of the temple. What he suspects happened is that the ninth Legion of Rome, which is this mysterious Legion that disappears, you know, they just kind of disappear from history while they were in. If you know anything about Rome, they have these legions and they kind of go off to these far parts of the empire and they kind of never come back.

The ninth Legion is in for like 40 years, and they’re all married up with all the Wells girls and all that stuff. They have fifth avenue bent and suddenly get the orders and saying, Hey. I need you back in Judea. You guys didn’t do it the first time we’re going to do it. What he suspects is they went there and they got to the door and the guy said, look, do you want to kill the tumble or without tell you what?

I kind of know where there might be some treasure and he goes, yeah, but, uh, what, what what’s going to happen to you? You, you give me the treasure, you’re going to get killed. Right? He goes, that’s why I was thinking, maybe I come along with you on the boats, you know? And that’s what he finds. That’s what the archeological evidence says.

They not only find all these Roman coins David Brody does in his book or America, but he also finds where they’ve built in the big Madorie and the, in the earth and all these other Jewish, religious symbols in second century America. So here’s the, here’s the upshot to that. And then I’m going to get back to, but I want to leave a whole thing on, I got to give you the whole picture to get your, to get your full answer back to Adrian Goldsworthy,

 

[00:30:53] Alex Tsakiris: Let me throw out one pet theory to indulge me. It’ll be short, but it has kind of emerged from a couple of different guests that I’ve talked to. So Josephus kind of famously says, Hey, and I have a revelation. You’re going to be, you know, Caesar and the, in the copper scrolls, the dead sea scrolls, the copper scroll is a treasure map.

And at the bottom of the treasure map, it says, and this is a copy. Josephus being Josephus super elite among the Jewish elite. What if he knows basically the ID. What’s in the information contained in that copper scroll. What if he has the treasure map in his head? And what if that is his real bargaining chip with this space?

Because it is interesting, isn’t it? That Vespasian who is the soldier, soldier, but really, you know, in unique ways isn’t enlightening to be the emperor. Doesn’t have the bloodline doesn’t, you know, it has kind of been cast out by neuro something happens and now he goes down to Egypt and he seems to have a lot of dough to assemble an army.

And he shows up in Rome and everyone’s like, oh, okay. I guess you’re the guy. How far off is that? Do we have anything that would directly contradict that idea? Good to remember the timing. So this is 67 Niro still alive until a few months later where all the bad decisions and the craziness has done. I mean, I’ve just been to the British museum,

 

[00:32:17] Alex Tsakiris: I could listen to Adrian Goldsworthy for a long time, but it’s probably a little bit too much for the show.

The point is. He’s not unfriendly to the theory that what we’re really looking at with Josephus is not someone who psychically had a pre-cognitive vision of this pacing becoming empire. But a guy who knew where the fucking silver was buried and said, bring me along. And I’ll show you where the treasure is.

Just like the ninth Roman Legion did 60 years later, however many years later that is it’s just, it’s, it’s just human nature. This is how things get done. This is how Joe Peshy and Bobby dinero would have done. What do you think I’ve laid out later, but this is Caesar’s Messiah 2.0, this changes it substantially.

It’s not about a grand conspiracy. They were not that smart. They were just doing the next best thing. Like you’re saying just the next thing about what, what might work? Well, throw this thing out there that the whole Jewish religion is a word Vespasian as the Messiah. Oh, that didn’t work. Okay. Throw this next thing out there.

Let’s see if that works.

[00:33:28] Miguel Conner: No government propaganda. Let’s try different things. We see it today. We see it throughout history. So it makes sense. And yes, I’ll also read. Yeah, they have found Roman coins and I think Brazil or Northern south America. So yeah, this all makes sense perfectly. Uh, and like I said, I, I like where you’re going with this because this shows how governments work.

The mind control works. I mean, we’d, I like to think there’s a Dr. Evil with some grand evil scheme, but like you said, it’s people trying to save their jobs. It’s think tanks, it’s, uh, people being greedy, wanting to retire first, the, the different Roman soldiers simply wanted to make money to bring back to their family.

And that’s always important in any situation. So as I say, it’s complicated and, uh, I would agree with you. Mithras or I’m going to state. Mithras really is the overarching God of Western civilization. He really rules our days today and from skull and bones to, uh, so many secret societies and he keeps popping up, , even in the Persian times, , and it’s a sidetrack, but if some have said the people like Cyrus and all those, they probably were secretly worshiping Meetha is because this is the kind of God that gets things done because they would sacrifice animals and Zuora.

Rest are very much said, you do not sacrifice animals under the religion of the Persians, but you see these hints going on in these, this that are keeps popping up here and there. And so again, you wonder if there was this parallel competition later on with Mithras and Christianity, but I think in a way, Mithras, uh, continued to be the ruling God of Western society.

I

[00:35:13] Alex Tsakiris: guess the big question, Miguel, that I’d love you to dive into is how are we to understand our here and now history back to the beginning of this interview, this, reaction that we all have to, what we see going on in our day, just like people have seen and reacted to throughout history, they had their own thing.

How do we balance that with this extended consciousness relationship that we have with gods, with spirits, with other entities? Because I think that’s so much what your book is all about and your work is all about, and we have to serve both. So how do we do that?

[00:35:56] Miguel Conner: Well, as I, as I tell people, The game doesn’t change.

The most important thing is you’re waking up and your inner flame or soul or consciousness, that’s the most. I tell people, it doesn’t matter if you walk out today and you see big foot or you see an alien ship land, or you find out that the Rockefellers are still more shipping me through, as in ruling are the United States government, your job is still the same, which is to wake up and find out what your purpose is and move there because, uh, these things are fun, Alex, but, you know, for example, JFK, it’s so obvious it’s tedious.

What did James Corbett or corporate say? A conspiracy is just history plus time. There’s so much time with JFK that I can’t believe anybody’s still holding onto the notion of the single shooter or whatever the hell, but. You’re still going to have yearly conferences with JFK people going and arguing and debating and paper.

That’s going to go on for generations. So you might as well not, you might as well continue going down the path like you from a Caesar’s Messiah. 1.0 to 2.0, or finding out me throws or all this stuff, all this journey that we’re in, but the game hasn’t changed. You need to keep waking up and you need to be as good as you can and be there for others.

The least of our brothers, as I talk about an AI bite and the answers will come. But, uh, the other things in a way it’s fun, but compared to infinity, to, as you say, extended consciousness and all that, it’s a drop in the bucket. You know, don’t lose sight of the big game, which is who you are, which is just an amazing individual that has purpose and meaning in this world.

[00:37:49] Alex Tsakiris: Can’t can’t can’t top that unbelievable. Miguel. So tell folks as we wrap it up, what’s going on with you in the, in the AAN bite world?

[00:38:00] Miguel Conner: Oh, lots of stuff going on. , keep putting out the shows with some, uh, amazing guests and my, my intros. I keep trying to level it up. , for example, in a show, I don’t know if it’ll be out.

Did you know that there was a serial killer that got made into a Buddha and really Marla and I, you know, you read these things and it just, you know, if you just, for the normal person, like, oh my God, Buddhism sucks. But to me. This is a new dimension to go explore. How did the Teravata Buddhists make a serial killer into a Buddha?

How does a serial killer become a Buddha? Uh, so this is so fascinating things that really say more about ourselves and we can explore parts of ourselves and our relationship, uh, to things that I’m trying to work on. Sort of a, a book about, uh, written so many articles on Gnosticism and all that. I’m trying to do a compilation book, hopefully by the end of the year, I want to have like a, a good intro course on Gnosticism and online ones.

So people can get the, the real dope and none of that new age stuff that is out there. So yeah, just doing a lot of voiceover work, I’m doing a lot of audio books and commercials to be able to, uh, set a career on that one. So if any of your listeners need voiceover, I am your man. I’ll get you. As I like to say stellar results with down to earth professionalism.

That’s my tag. That’s a tagline. I’m you just whip out, you know? So, um, no, that’s it busy.

[00:39:33] Alex Tsakiris: You, you, you ought to, we need, we always need more Miguel Connor, so never enough. Awesome. Having you, um, thanks again for joining me.

[00:39:43] Miguel Conner: Thanks for having me fun as always Alex.

Thanks again to Miguel Connor. And thank you for sticking around for part two of this interview. The one question I tee up from this interview is.

What do you make of the cult of Mithras secret society? Is that what it is? I mean, it can be that and a religion and a cult. It can be all those things, but is it a secret society that is probably running these kinds of PSYOPs? The same ones we see today, but maybe the same ones that happen back then. That’s of course the big question, but I’d love to hear your answers to it.

Again, let me know what you think. Engage, connect, share.

And stay with me. I have some great shows coming up. Until next time, take care. Bye for now .

  • More From Skeptiko

    • Dr. Joanna Kujawa, Sexuality And Spirituality |552|

      Dr. Joanna Kujawa, Sexuality And Spirituality |552|

      Dr. Joanna Kujawa is a religious scholar and expert on goddesses and spirituality. Subscribe:   Click here for Dr. Joanna Kujawa’s website Click here for: The Other Goddess: Goddess of Eros and Secret Knowledge Click here for forum Discussion Alex …
    • Luis Jimenez, UFO Threats |551|

      Luis Jimenez, UFO Threats |551|

      Luis Jimenez, has interviewed many leading UFO researchers about the UFO threat narrative. Subscribe:   Click here for Luis Jimenez’s website Click here for forum Discussion   Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko. A show about looking like you’re …
    • Rich Giordano, UFO Hoaxes And/Or Ops |550|

      Rich Giordano, UFO Hoaxes And/Or Ops |550|

      Rich Giordano is a long-time UFO investigator and the creator and host of GUFON. Subscribe:   Click here for Rich Giordano’s website Click here for forum Discussion Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko a show about liars. [00:00:07] Rich …
    • DJ Kadagian, NDE Deep Dive |549|

      DJ Kadagian, NDE Deep Dive |549|

      DJ Kadagian is an author, filmmaker and hedge fund trader with unique insights into the near death experience. Subscribe:   Click here for DJ Kadagian’s website Click here for forum Discussion   Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko a …
    • Cherylee Black, Can NDEs Lead to Psychokinesis? |548|

      Cherylee Black, Can NDEs Lead to Psychokinesis? |548|

      Cherylee Black is a trained scientist, NDE experiencer and laboratory tested for her ability to move stuff with her mind. Subscribe:   Click here for Cherylee Black’s website Click here for forum Discussion Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko …
    • Dr. Peter Breggin, Mental Health Reform and Covid |547|

      Dr. Peter Breggin, Mental Health Reform and Covid |547|

      Peter Breggin is a psychiatrist with a distinguished career in mental health reform and patient advocacy.   Subscribe:   Click here for Dr. Peter Berggin’s website Book: COVID-19 and the Global Predators Click here for forum Discussion Alex Tsakiris: On …
    • Matt Lambeau, Tree of Self-Evident Truth |546|

      Matt Lambeau, Tree of Self-Evident Truth |546|

      Matt Lambeau is an author who claims to reveal self-evident truths about freedom, love and deception. Subscribe:   Click here for Matt Lambeau’s website Book: The Facts Click here for forum Discussion Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko a …
    • Dean Radin, Quantum Consciousness Experiments |545|

      Dean Radin, Quantum Consciousness Experiments |545|

      Dr. Dean Radin has shattered the quantum consciousness link question, but where will it lead? Subscribe:   Click here for Dean Radin’s website Book: Real Magic Click here for forum Discussion Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko a show …
    • William Peters, Shared Death Experience Science  |544|

      William Peters, Shared Death Experience Science |544|

      William Peters, one of the leading authorities on the remarkable shared death experience phenomena. Subscribe:   Click here for William Peter’s website Book: At Heaven’s Door Click here for forum Discussion [00:00:00] Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko the …
  •