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Dan Shukis reminds us we must first save ourselves.

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That’s a clip from one of my favorite guilty pleasure. Reality shows alone.

Edit as a strange connection in so many ways with today’s interview, with cosmic keys, podcaster, Dan shuka Sue. I have to apologize again because. This episode has been hanging in my basket to get out for the longest time, but it’s out now. And I really, really think it’s an interesting conversation on so many levels. Here’s a clip.

Dan Shukis: [00:00:46] (ll) When you shine a light into a dark room, it lights up the whole room.

It’s a weird time for. Kind of preaching these like spiritual love messages, because so, so many things are topsy turvy, but I, I sorta think it’s extremely individualistic and you have to save yourself.

You have to be accountable for yourself and know how powerful that is because these evil forces really, , can’t handle it and they’ll, they’ll go away. The more people embrace love.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:22] skeptical, where we explore countries. You’ll science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Securus. And today we welcome Dan chukkas of the cosmic keys podcast here to the skeptic hoe layer. Dan was nice enough to have me on his show, cosmic keys a few weeks ago.

And we had a really great time had a really good conversation about some interesting stuff that I dunno. I don’t think it’s talked about enough, so we both wanted to continue it. So we thought we’d bring the conversation over here. Dan. Welcome. Thanks for joining me.

Dan Shukis: [00:02:07] Yeah, thanks for having me, Alex. It’s an honor, because, uh, as I told you in our interview on cosmic keys, I’ve been listening to skeptical for a while now. And I never thought I never thought you would want to talk to me about stuff. So thanks for having me. I’m honored.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:25] Never know what? I never know quite what to say. They’re honored to talk to me, but that’s cool. I’ll go with it. I’ll roll with it. So for, for folks who don’t know, you know, tell us who is Dan shukas and tell us about cosmic. Key’s gone through a couple iterations. Tell folks what you’re doing over there these days, but first, who are you?

Dan Shukis: [00:02:48] Yeah, well, um, God, I don’t know where to start. So I, I grew up, well, we talked about this on my show as well. I grew up outside of Chicago, same area as you, Alex, we both went to the same high school. Um, And I started cosmic keys with a co-host Scarlet Ravens wood. Who’s kind of in like the Neo pagan, spiritual new age community.

And I had been interested in these spiritual topics, um, for my whole life. And when I met Scarlet, she kind of, because she was already out there. In the public with her YouTube channel and her social media stuff. She was already talking about these topics. Openly. And at the time I was pretty nervous to put myself out there and speak about these things, but we kind of pair it up with cosmic keys with me doing the astrology forecast for the week ahead and her doing a tarot reading for the week ahead.

And we talked to a lot of. A lot of similar people that you talk to, people that are in spiritual paranormal kind of metaphysical communities. And, um, we started it in Chicago and I ended up moving to Colorado and she ended up moving to Dallas 20, 20 hit, and I was running my mouth and. Trying to talk about the, uh, controversial things happening this year.

And then she walks away from the show we’re still, and we still keep in touch. And it was a peak, you know, it was, uh, not, there’s no bad blood at all, but now that I have the show to myself, I have it a little bit more. Open-ended where. I want to talk about, you know, the conspiracy topics, the spiritual topics, all of the controversy of 2020, and also stick to the roots of, you know, uh, consciousness, spirituality, astrology hermeticism um, so yeah, that’s kinda where I’m at right now in this crazy year.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:01] you know, I get that on one hand and I get that you got to have a lane and you got to stay in your lane. I don’t do that at all. I don’t try and stay in any particular lane, but I always wonder did you kind of see it that way? And do you see it that way now? Because it doesn’t seem that way. It seems like you kind of go wherever, wherever you want.

Dan Shukis: [00:05:23] Yeah, absolutely. Like if I, if I discover somebody that, that has something interesting to bring to the table, I definitely, you know, reach out and book them for an interview and don’t necessarily think, Oh, do they fit the brand or do they fit the subject matter? So. It’s yeah. Before it was very much like, you know, me and Scarlet kind of sticking with astrology and taro and stuff under that umbrella.

And now I’m trying to just talk about current events more. And, but I, I do, I am really focused on the spiritual perspective. So if we can look at current events from a spiritual perspective, that’s kind of what I’m shooting for. But yeah, I don’t. It’s pretty open-ended for me, anybody that’s interesting enough to chat on down to chat with.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:06:17] Yeah. And I think, you know, this is something we talked about on your show, but I really kind of appreciated and really liked the way you’ve kind of done that. And cause we talked some of the pros and cons of the talking about current events and we can’t even talk about them as current events, Stan.

Cause I mean, one of the things that you brought to a focus last time was that. Things are happening at a rate. Whether you’re into kind of current events, conspiracies, all that stuff it’s been. So in your face this year that you really can’t avoid it. And again, I thought you had just a great kind of perspective shifting thing.

When you talked about the long game, what I’m calling the long game, and you said. If we look at the stuff that’s happening right now, and I’m talking about the, the plan DEMEC and the, you know, you can’t help, but talk about, uh, you know, The election stealing kind of thing, no matter how you come down on that, I mean, it’s unprecedented.

Uh, if you look at that stuff and then what you did is said, well, what if we shifted that and looked at the longer game and you even went so far as to say, look at my parents, you know, and. What was their game? What was the game for them? You know, I was like JFK. And then you said, you know, what was the game changer for you?

I was like nine 11. You know, another one I’d throw in there is the, the global. Uh, I’m sorry, the, uh, the global warming, uh, kind of failed attempt, you know? So do you want to just kind of riff on that for a minute, that there is, if we do take a step back, there seems to be this longer game at play.

Dan Shukis: [00:08:14] Yeah, totally. I mean, when you study conspiracies in general, I mean, you could go back to ancient times if you really want, want it to. Um, but I see it, it’s pretty clear that there are groups and institutions that, that plan out social engineering, they. I mean, if you look into like the, uh, the Mockingbird CIA influence on the media,

are really thinking about the long game and they are thinking about generations and stuff like that. And I, you know, in what you were saying with like my parents who are kind of like boomer aged and their parents who were of like the world war two generation, and then me as a millennial, you know, from.

My grandparents world and worldview to today and beyond, like, there’s been a lot of things that have changed in the culture. And I think the sixties, like, right, I think JFK was really that turning point. Not only because. The, the cultural revolution, like in the West of kind of like the hippie movements and all of that, but then like the cultural revolution in China and then the Vatican to pro project or whatever.

I mean, I was raised Catholic and I, I have like a, a fondness for certain kind of mystical aspects of Catholicism and. The Vatican two thing is huge because that really changed Catholicism into a more Protestant thing. And by the time it hits the millennials like me, like I, you know, I kinda liked my religion when I was a little kid, but then when I was, you know, around nine 11 around my teenage years, there’s this real association between the Catholic church and pedophilia.

So like, who’s going to stick with that. So I feel like over. The 20th century into the 21st century, there’s just been constant social engineering projects, straight up, like breaking things down. And when you, when you have that kind of outcome ethical perspective and knowing that the elites are familiar with a cult ideas or, you know, into all of that, it really is kind of like.

An out chemical breakdown of society to rebuild it into what they want. And from what I’m looking at with like contact tracing and vaccine passports and, um, the 5g internet of things, it seems like the, the, the great work that they’re trying to build is more of like a feudal system where, um, Most of us are just peasants and there’s, you know, a select few that are at the top.

So yeah, the long game is really interesting and it’s, and I think 2020 was a year where we’re, we’re in a new phase of the long game. And when I look at people younger than me, like people that are like gen Z or younger, like they’re calling them like the. The alpha generation, like little kids right now.

I can only imagine how they’re being conditioned right now with masks and with all of these propaganda things, they don’t know any better. And, um, if we’re, if we’re going to try to take any control back from this, like techno feudalism that they have ready to roll out, it’s going to, I mean, we’re going to have to deprogram a lot of this social engineering.

So. It’s it’s kind of a dark thing to think about, but I think that’s why the spiritual is so important because if you literally, um, are in touch with your inner world and in touch with your soul, and if you have a mindful, if you practice some kind of mindfulness practice, you can kind of step back and, um, find inner peace in the middle of this whirlwind of chaos.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:12:40] well, you of kind of laid a lot out there. Uh, I’m going to try and pull it apart. Cause the long game, the big game and the only game. That’s how I break it down, Like, here’s where I take the long game. I just connect the dots that you, that you have. So like you look at today and the plan dynamic, and you go with it. It’s a conspiracy. If it at its simplest level, it’s a conspiracy that there’s no medical scientific evidence behind any of these edicts.

Right. They’re just there. They’re just now. Edicts, you know that, and they’re highly politicized. So if you’re political, like I am you just step back and go, Oh, okay. Someone’s running a game. That’s a program. That’s a project. Otherwise it doesn’t work that way. Otherwise there’s some kind of scientific.

Basis for these things. There’s kind of some, uh, democratic basis for these things. And, and, and there isn’t, so you go, okay, I get it. I’ve seen that before, and you’ve seen it before. Like you can go to nine 11, like I said. Okay. Yeah. You know, the, we, we have this event and the next day there’s a thousand page.

Patriot act bill on the desk of Congress, you got that doesn’t happen accidentally. There’s a list of seven countries we’re going to invade and we invade them all that. You just go, okay, I get it. That’s a game, that’s a program. I would also connect it in this. The other one I’m going to throw on the table.

I was reminded of the interviews I did on global warming before I really caught on to it for what it was, which is another game, another project, I kind of looked at it from a science perspective and it pissed me off because it’s like, you guys are not following the science and I’ll never forget. I talked to one guy.

And you wanted to go into talk about like MK ultra programming, you know, like they always show the clip. If you go on and be like the Al Roker thing where he freezes, you know, or people have other ones. And I don’t know if that stuff’s real or not. It, a lot of it seems very, very dicey, but I think.

There’s a kernel of truth to it as well, in some ways. And I remember I interviewed, uh, Daniel Pinchbeck who has a really interesting background, I suppose, when you look at his parents and stuff like that, and in the media business, which is always kind of a tip off. And he was back. This was a few years ago when he was really pitching the climate apocalypse stuff really, really hard and really getting in my face.

And I guess he felt like I was kind of getting in his face too. Although I thought I was being pretty gentle about it, but then I brought up and I said, okay. But yeah, it’s really about, uh, even if we believe what you’re saying about global warming, then. Main thing that we’re focusing on from a real issue is population overpopulation, right?

I mean, you go from. However bill, however many billion you think we have now and you double it and you’ve got a huge problem. So you’ve got to address that. It was really interesting. His response was like this, like an Al Roker kind of programmed go there. Isn’t a problem with overpopulation. You could fit every person in the United States, in the state of Texas.

You could. And, and, and, and that’s what he said too. That’s another, like, Like almost like a code phrase that these guys have. It’s not a population problem. You could fit everybody in Texas and then you just step back and you go. That is so ridiculously absurd. Why would an intelligent person of even spitting that anyone said, suspect goes, we’ve got a popul, a world population problem, but that’s been programmed into us that anyone who says that is somehow.

You know, connected with eugenics and the rest of this. Well, I mean, we kinda know that’s, what’s going on that there’s some shade of that going on with the plan DEMEC stuff, but it’s never made explicit. It’s always kind of in the, in the background, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s never made explicit. So I guess I’m using that as another, you know, game kind of thing.

And then you wanted to put JFK in there. And great. So I’m reluctant to connect that with the way that you did in the way that some people do and look at these occultic symbols and look at how these guys like to use numerology and all the rest of that. I’m not saying that isn’t true. I’m just saying that isn’t necessary to look at.

This as a social engineering project. Um, and I think it’s, it’s useful to separate the two because if we look at. The next category that I would have, which would be the big game, which is what’s really behind that. That’s where I break down that other stuff and want to bring in the occult stuff. I’d want to bring in evil as we understand it in the extended consciousness realm, whatever that means.

And whether you think it’s satanic or whether you think it’s Gnostic or whatever the hell you think it is. And, um, you know, So w what do you think of that kind of division there? Do you think that that makes sense or is useful or just further complicates it?

Dan Shukis: [00:18:25] no, I think that is a good division. Like the long game. Having more, um, uh, cult or evil, satanic elements to it. And it gets me thinking that. All of all of these kinds of nefarious things that happen in the world with social engineering projects, with these events, you’re talking about like, I don’t, I don’t necessarily think even the top dogs that are working on these things are necessarily a cultist or consciously trying to invoke evil.

I think it’s possible that. These things are all invisible forces anyways, and they’re just part of the human psyche. And they, in this sort of weird metaphysical invisible way are always bringing us towards the long game which you’re talking about. Um, and it’s, it’s all really speculative, but it’s, if you have discernment, you can kind of just see, you know, the people that are, that are creating these.

These social engineering projects are these false flag events or these planned dynamics or whatever are motivated by things that are evil. But I don’t know if that means.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:19:49] See, how do we know that though? See, and that’s where I make the distinction between the long game and the big game. So to me, the long game is if you think this is recent, if you think this is just something that happened yesterday, it isn’t, you know, and that’s why I went to blanks to talk about. To me, I think he can, as you did.

I mean, you were, the guy originally kind of sent me down this direction. There’s a direct path between nine 11 and the plan DEMEC and I’d even say in between there there’s a stopping point with the failed attempt at a global warming. And, and even you might even point to the failed attempt at the tic-tac, uh, you know, disclosure rollout kind of thing, whatever they were trying to do, that both of those things failed.

And I, I haven’t heard anyone really talk about that in an interesting way, but the global warming thing, it just. Didn’t work. It got blown up by climate gate and then it got blown up by the weather. These guys didn’t realize, and we think they’re so fricking smart. I mean, they pick kind of a bad thing there.

They pick the weather because they really ultimately, they couldn’t control it. And people were like, It ain’t warming up, you know, and ain’t, don’t, it, it’s colder than hell here in Boston this year. What do you guys talk about? It just didn’t pass the test and then they, if you remember, they got more and more absurd.

Well, the it’s getting colder. The water is just the deep down below the water is really, you know, these kind of just bizarre kind of things. So. I see the, I see this line of this long game, but. I’m not sure about the big game. So to say the big game is a cult. The big game is satanic. The big game is this Gnostic good versus evil throughout history.

It’s really, when you take the longer lens, lens of history, it’s very difficult to tell, you know, The good guys from the bad guys without a score book, you know, is bill Gates gonna look like a superhero a hundred years from now? Because he cold the planet by a 50% and save the planet. That’s not my opinion if he asked me right now, but you know, someone, someone in there future could make that argument.

If it turns out that way and you’d have to say, you know, That’s it, you know, I was watching a really weird, um, kind of digression, but I was watching a world war, two documentary because my wife loves everything about Holocaust and interesting. And she’s interested in it. She went over there and. Toured all the, you know, all the, the depth and she has a very somber, you know, concern about a deep concern.

It’s not like she’s a, you know, just a group before it she’s has a deep feeling and a deep sensibility to it. But anyways, we’re watching the documentary and it’s about how the British bugged, th they had this, uh, like. Prison encampment, this high-end Ritz Carlton prison for Nazi. Uh, officers, very high level officers, generals and stuff like that.

So, and then they kind of fattened him up and these guys spilled the beans. They didn’t realize it, you know, but the whole thing was bugged. The Brown stoning thing, Jeffrey Epstein will be proud. So there were constantly bugging these guys throughout the thing, and they were just kinda made it very easy for them, very lax environment.

And they started talking and they started giving up all this incredible information. And at this time they started giving up a bunch of information about, uh, the death camps information that was unknown, you know, and they’re, and they’re admitting these war crimes. So at the end of the film, you’re like, okay, what happens to these guys?

Right? Of course they’re put on trial. Of course they’re in Nurnberg, right? No, none of them were. The British government who is primarily the one running the operation, decided that it would be too big of a give up too. Disclose their practices that they might want to use this in the future, or they might want to use this information.

So therefore they would let it all just be buried in the annals of history. And it never would have been discovered if this one researcher didn’t stumble upon it in some archives, which probably should have never been there if they would have had a better sense that they were there, but long way around the barn.

Who who are the good guys and who are the bad guys there?

Dan Shukis: [00:24:51] Yeah, that’s definitely tricky because I mean, even thinking about world war two, I mean, how much of the CIA today was influenced by the project paperclip where all of those scientists were kind of divvied up and sent. You know, to the U S or to the USSR back then, and then the space race began and then MK ultra began and, you know, all that type of science, that sick, twisted, manipulative type of science.

You know, I learned about that in junior high. When I learned about the Holocaust, when they were doing weird experiments in the concentration camps. And you just have the sense that these. Nazi scientists were sick, twisted psychopaths. Well, we kind of that, that’s kind of the foundation of the post-World war, two America in a way with, with everything that happened after that.

So.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:51] I mean, a lot of people have pointed this up, but Sydney Gottlieb, the guy who runs the MK ultra program is your classic sick, twisted scientist. And he happens to be Jewish. Not that that matters, although it does it, we can’t help, but say that it matters given the weird historical context that we went.

Exactly. Like you said, and picked up where they left off with all these sick. MK and German mind control projects and they’re sitting in Gottlieb. And the only other thing I always point out is, you know, in Sydney Gottlieb, I, I, I love this cause it’s like a, such a skeptical thing. Sydney Gottlieb is in charge of the Stargate program too.

Yeah. The remote viewing program, which well, I’m going to say, Oh no, that’s really cool. That’s where we’re fighting for freedom. You know, it’s not, no Sydney Gottlieb comes as yet. Well, let’s tell some with LSD and see, see what happens and you, you know, we get, uh, Russell target, how yeah. And we had to tell Sydney that wasn’t a good idea and this and that.

Yeah. But Sydney was your fucking boss, dude. Sydney was your boss and he was running all these other sick fricking. Programs and exactly what you said, Dan that’s, who we had become. And there’s no evidence that that has changed, you know, I mean, that is who we are.

Dan Shukis: [00:27:16] Yeah. And it’s I remember. Yeah. And now it’s it’s it gets me thinking there was some posts from like a CIA. Woman on Twitter and they’re kind of like putting themselves out there and like being like, Oh, the CIA is going to be inclusive or like anti-racist so they can like applying all the woke rhetoric to the fricking CIA and, um, yeah, it’s, it’s all of those things.

And I was just kind of Googling Sydney, uh, godly of who you’re talking about, but yeah. Th th again, even when I think about the generations, like the, um, the hippie movement, there’s a lot of CIA, a lot of CIA involvement in all of that. Obviously the LSD thing, the Timothy Leary’s. And, um, so it seems so much like these big social changes kind of just, um, organically, uh, burst forward.

And it’s like, Oh yeah, this it’s time for us to evolve or change, but. A lot of the times, it seems like it’s, it’s controlled by these deep state forces and. I, I really think, you know, the sixties is a huge turning point. Then, you know, the seventies and eighties and nineties are kind of like easing into those changes.

And then boom, nine 11 new changing point. Like Obama was a big changing point. And now 2020 is going to be absolutely huge for like the big technocratic changing point. And I don’t even think we’ve seen. Um, half of what’s going to really roll out in the next few years with like all of these, uh, things that they’ve got ready, ready to roll out.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:29:04] Is bill Gates, a hero, our, our, our kids and our grandkids gonna be, you know, I swear to God, I swear to God, I was driving through LA Jolla, California the other day. And I saw a building size still it’s only two, three, it’s like a three story building with a mural of bill Gates on it.

And I’m like, Hey man, you know,

Dan Shukis: [00:29:25] Okay.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:29:26] there’s a lot worse people in history that are. You know, post arrised in that way.

Dan Shukis: [00:29:36] Okay for bill Gates in particular. I mean, I didn’t know this about him until I think this year, but his father was, uh, one of the founders of planned Parenthood

Alex Tsakiris: [00:29:48] So what I mean, I want to make sure you get my point. So let’s say all the bad stuff, you know, is true and all the stuff let’s assume for a minute, that all the crazy stuff that we hear about the vaccine is true. Does he still take, is he still the guy who saved the planet? Because here’s my point.

Just being real skeptical for a minute. You don’t control population on the planet you’re doomed. So whatever you think the population is now 8 billion, 9 billion. It it okay. You can double it. Okay. But I don’t think you can double it, but you double it. You’re at 16 billion. Can you double it again? You get to 32 billion cause this can, this planet really support that many people, you know, China was building those ghost cities for the longest time.

Cause they’re like, Oh, are we gonna do with our population? We gotta pull. But bill put them someplace. They build these huge cities. I spent all this money with no one there. Just planning the growth. Well now, do they just kind of given up on that? If someone just is somewhat at a higher level in the big, big game saying, you know, it’s just unsustainable and we’ve got to figure out a way to do it.

That is the most humane, but eventually we got to get to less people. Don’t get me wrong. Folks. I’m not advocating that. I’m just saying until you put that out there until you really. Uh, try and look at it from that perspective, you don’t understand the kind of logic of that argument because we’re, we’re not treating the other part of that equation.

Logically, we don’t have any global plan to control the population because if we did, we would have done it 50 years ago and we wouldn’t be in the mess that we’re in.

Dan Shukis: [00:31:42] Yeah. I mean, it gets me thinking that. There’s I agree that the, you know, the global population is a really important issue. And if you have ex exponential population growth, you know, it kind of reaches a plateau and then plummets and that’s kind of nature. I think that’s like, uh, a natural thing. Um, but when you have, you know, fan, I would call it families like the Rockefellers or, you know, the, the, the Gates family.

Is actually very similar to the Rockefeller family in that, you know, bill Gates, his father, uh, was one of the original founders of planned Parenthood, which was a eugenics program. Like they, that that’s out there that’s clear and they were really trying to. Kind of achieve the same type of family goals as the Rockefellers and with the Rockefellers.

Yeah. There’s the Rockefeller foundation’s, there’s all these philanthropic. Uh, groups that these people are involved with and it’s all PR also. So if you ask, is bill Gates going to be remembered as a hero in 50 years or a hundred years? Well, he has so much fricking money to put towards his PR campaign that probably he will.

I’m not saying it’s going to be true, but will he be remembered by people as a hero? Yeah, because he’s been putting. God knows how much money towards that image crafting for his entire life. So it’s just, and when you talk about the vaccines or the, the being an anti-vaxxer anti-climate change or like these things.

Are sort of just things that people spit out. They, they have the, the lines ready, so, and they’ll Oscars ostracize you like, Oh, are you an anti-vaxxer then? Oh, are you a guy you don’t believe in science and it’s all baseline, really thoughtless reactions to certain things because those have been crafted by these social engineering.

Forces, I guess. So I, and I’m noticing that more and more this year, like how many people in my life are just spitting out a reactionary response that was clearly crafted. And even like on my show, I, one time was criticizing bill Gates and I got some comments like bill and Melinda Gates have done so much help, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I’m like they bought that response from you and. People don’t talk about when you know, how they’re banned from India or how all of these vaccines were just accidentally sterilizing people, or how in the bill Gates, Ted talk video, where he lists out how to control the global population. And vaccine is one of the three bullet points.

It’s like. It’s all out there. And I think the things that motivate these really powerful families, I think they have sort of like a God complex and they think they it’s their job to do. To do these big scale things to the planet when really we should sort of let nature do its thing. And yeah, if our population gets out of control, nature might shake us back into a more sustainable level, but that doesn’t involve mass deception of like sterilizing people or euthanizing people by, you know, giving them some vaccine or some environmental factor.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:35:22] Well, he here’s here’s I guess, where I kind of pull the conversation back to, you know, long game, big game, only game. Suddenly the long game is just saying, Hey, these things have been going on for a long time. If you want to go back even further, like you were doing. Go back to Christianity, go back to Constantine is always my go-to on that, you know?

Cause people get caught up with Jesus in the Bible, just go right to 400 or 300 or whatever it is. Constantine. Yeah. I think it’s three 15 crate served him. Right? He gives you this religion. Which is just an exact copy of the prior Roman religion, but he dresses it up. He calls it Christianity and he says, okay, now here’s the good news.

Everything’s going to be okay after this. Ah, here’s the bad news. I kind of own you right now. You can’t, you will do the job that I say you will have no property. You will have nothing. You are just a little tool for the state. Three 15 305th here, 315, 1700 years ago, total, uh, you know, game, total game. So the social Indian engineering game, and we can go council, countless examples over and over and over again, but that’s different than the big game because the big game is.

Evil. The big game is the occult game. The big game is the hidden game, the satanic game, because they’re playing it at a different level because you only get so much, you can only have so much money, so much power, you know? Oh, it’s like the, one of my favorite quotes. You know, what a men of power want more power.

If that’s how you built. If that’s how you’ve constructed your consciousness, then that’s what you want and you’ll go anywhere to get it. So why wouldn’t you extend into that other realm? If it promised you whatever power live forever, a connection with entities that can do all this kind of stuff. That’s where you’d go.

And so let’s talk about the big game and then just so people know where I’m coming from. Ultimately to me, the only game, the only game is a totally different game. It’s the game of, it’s the game of love. It’s the game of forgiveness. It’s the game of. I don’t cut off my thumb to spite my fingers. I don’t battle people.

I don’t try and beat people. I just realized that we’re all headed towards the same. Thing, you know, we’re all doing the same thing. There’s only the lightness. The darkness is just there to provide a relief to provide, uh, a contrast for the game. So there, I’ve kind of laid out my whole thing. Let’s see what you think.

Dan Shukis: [00:38:29] Well, yeah, the, uh, it gets me thinking a lot about, you know, what this world is and on your show, you talk about NDEs and stuff. , with evil being present here, down here in this world. Um, and then just with the knowledge that yeah, love and forgiveness and peace and, you know, spiritual bliss is the real game, but yeah, I think evil is allowed to be present here where we are in this, in this realm and the extended consciousness.

Aspect of life on earth. There are definitely entities and evil forces and chaotic forces. But if you think of it, like, I agree that at our core us humans with our us and sold humans, you know, that stuff really at the end of the day, can’t take away what. We have on the inside that can’t really destroy our souls or our goodness, our connection to the divine.

But I, I sort of think that like this, this world is a big game and the, the evil forces are here. They’re allowed to be here because they do lead to evolution and growth and experience and all of that. And. I don’t. And even when they, in the Christian terminology there, they just talk about Satan as like the Prince of this world, because like this world needs those evil forces for us souls to come here and do, do what we’ve got to do.

And I think, um, having no discernment or having the idea that evil doesn’t exist can just, um, Make your time here, even more miserable or add consequences to what you bring with you after death. But, um, I, I like your focus on acknowledging evil and talking about evil and not denying evil, but I think from a spiritual perspective, you know, It’s uh, it’s way less powerful than like the positive love force that we all are really made of.

I guess. I don’t know.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:41:01] No. I agree. And the problem with that is it, it doesn’t have the power for people. I think they immediately want to turn away. Cause it doesn’t, it doesn’t give the juice. It doesn’t give the jolt, it doesn’t give the satanic ritual abuse jolt,

Dan Shukis: [00:41:16] yeah, I’m with you. And, um, when you’re, when you’re thinking about love and, um, The way things work in this world. I mean, lately I’m like, I think not only do you need to like embrace love and forgiveness, but you just need to be aware of little negative thoughts and little resentful thoughts and everything, and just stop yourself and just change the way you’re thinking.

Change your vibration. And then more like, it’s kind of like that law of attraction thing. Like you reap what you sow, you attract to your, your vibration matches. Um, what’s coming towards you. So if you’re sitting around hateful and, and this is some, this is a problem with me. I have a problem of not forgiving people or not trusting people or holding grudges against people.

And who’s losing at the end of the day for being like that. Nobody but me. So, um, when you talk about, you know, the only thing that’s going to take us out of this hell is the force of love and compassion and forgiveness. Yeah. Because it has a, it has a domino effect and it’s, it’s more. It’s like, you know, when you shine a light into a dark room, it lights up the whole room.

Without that one source of light, it’s still pitch black. And I think it’s easier than we think to, to try to do better and to try to, um, get rid of these evil forces that are everywhere. But I see it as a very indiv individualistic journey, because if you don’t look at yourself and sort of think, who am I?

Who am I hating right now? Who am I holding a grudge against? Who am I resentful towards? Um, if you don’t stop and observe that, then it’s going to be going on in the background nonstop. And it’s, it’s, it’s a weird time for. Kind of preaching these like spiritual love messages, because so, so many things are topsy turvy, but I, I sorta think it’s extremely individualistic and you have to save yourself.

You have to be accountable for yourself and know how powerful that is because these evil forces really, um, can’t handle it and they’ll, they’ll go away. The more people embrace love. Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:43:55] That there’s so many really interesting little things you said there that I think are so profound. I mean, one, you have to save yourself. I love that. Cause I think that’s so true. And I also agree with you that it is a matter of. Being mindful of the little things at the same time. I also, I don’t know if I want to, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I kind of heard you say that, you know, this stuff, isn’t really that hard in a way, you know, it’s just really not, you know, it’s uh, like what am I.

Teachers Mickey singer says, it’s like, you’re drowning in six inches of water. You know, just lift your head up. You know, don’t do that anymore. I just interviewed a guy. I really, really loved this guy. His name is Tim Grimes and he wrote a book, the joy of not thinking. And I found his book just going through Kindle and it was, uh, in the Kindle unlimited I’m like, wow, that sounds interesting.

The guy is phenomenal. I love this guy. And the title says it all in terms of what we’re talking about. It’s like, you don’t have to fucking think about everything. You don’t have to take everything so fucking seriously, you’re not at the center of the universe. You’d at the center view world. You’re not even at the center of your fucking County.

You know, it’s not that what, whatever is going to happen. You have, you know, you, you don’t worry so fricking much about it. And the other thing is just. B B be playful, have fun with yourself, with life. You know, the joy of not thinking how freeing it is to give this. We don’t have to solve all these problems.

These are other people’s problems for the most part that we’re taking on.

Dan Shukis: [00:45:53] Yeah. It’s uh, it’s just lately, especially for me, like it’s, it’s definitely. And you have a yoga background. I just think, you know, when you, when, if you put the. The moralistic like Christian perspective, like, you know, love, love thy neighbor as thyself for whatever. Um, and all the really basic tenants of Christianity, which are pretty straightforward and true, in my opinion, the bait, like I’m not talking about the dogma or the institutions or anything, but the basics of Christianity are, are true.

But I noticed like when I’m, if, if I don’t embrace some kind of, let’s say Eastern practice, I can’t do that very effectively because if you’re not mindful, if you’re not centered and introspective, how are you? You’re not going to be aware of when you’re just pissed off and resentful and, um, spewing out negative things all the time.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:46:59] Do you really believe that? See, I don’t think you believe that. Cause I think what you said before contradicts that, which is that it’s, it’s pretty easy. You just got to catch it. So it’s easy when you’re, when you’re spiraling down that path, we all see it in ourselves.

We just like, we’re just stuck in that groove and we’re like, fuck, this just feels more comfortable right now to spew this shit. Or we’ve been told that. Hey, it’s a good idea to get it off your chest or to process and stuff like that. I go back to rewind on your Dan, what you said before, which is just, no, you don’t have to, you, you find yourself thinking those thoughts, you know, think you’re stop thinking like my buddy, Tim says, or just understand that there’s a completely other perspective on, you know, whatever hate you’re having, you know, about some other person.

Dan Shukis: [00:47:48] Right, right. I’m just saying, um, I was just trying to bridge the gap between, you know, being good and being forgiving and loving and. Being self-aware about it. And having a mindfulness practice definitely gets you out of that autopilot mode, because if you’re, if you’re not stopping and observing your thoughts, which is what you do in mindfulness meditation, I don’t know.

I mean, you might not be aware of, of what, of how you’re acting because you’re just. Impulsively, um, reacting to everything around you and you’re not thinking, Oh, I have the choice to stop thinking about this and just hit mute for a second. And if you hit mute, all of a sudden that little, uh, burst can kind of dissolve and you’re at square one again, I don’t know.

That’s just what I’ve been recently kind of doing with the stresses of this year. The stresses of. A day job. And like, just realizing the little things are really dragging me down. Just like, you know, getting, getting pissed at somebody at work or getting pissed at someone in your family for a little thing.

And then just letting that grow and grow. I think the mind like being mindful as much as possible and knowing that you can just hit stop, like you’re saying stop thinking for a second and hit reset, I think is serving me lately. At least.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:49:20] And that’s awesome. So we’re just shooting ideas back and forth.

Dan Shukis: [00:49:25] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:49:26] So two things that, that I, these are like subtle little things, but this is like the most important, fun stuff to talk about. I see it kind of differently. And it doesn’t mean that I haven’t tried exactly what you’re talking about, but where I’m at now is one.

You know, like I told you, Tim Grimes, the joy not thinking is that that really is an option. And I think we’re so conditioned to thinking that that isn’t an option. Other than that, some super tricky, spiritual, Eastern way of not thinking of being mindful, well being centered and Tim saying, fuck that shit.

Just stop thinking. You don’t, you don’t have to think. And that when you say that to somebody, you’ll notice that they’ll go like, well, I can’t do that. I mean, what would happen is that okay. Stop thinking for the next 30 seconds. How about that? Would that totally fuck up your life with your life? Totally fall apart.

If you stopped fucking thinking for the next 30 seconds, give it a try. Stop. Thinking stop thinking, you have to know, stop thinking enough to solve something. Can you have to fix, just stop thinking, be a bum daydream, you know, watch your feet as you walk, you know, do whatever it doesn’t matter. It’s not like you have to substitute it with something great or something magnificent or something Epic.

Just fuck it. Be a bum for 30 seconds and stop thinking and taking it seriously. And the other guy, 0.2 is my fucking man Wim Hoff, who says the same thing. Fuck it. I go in, I think I told you that. I mean, I built it. I, I believe in women so much, I built a fucking ice path in my backyard and it’s, it’s a freezer filled with water and nights and it’s like big chunks of ice.

You go in the ice. You’re not. Yeah, it’s magnificent. It’s brutal. And you don’t want to do it, but it’s magnificent. You are not thinking about stupid fucking shit. And what does whim say? He says three things. Be happy, be strong. And be healthy. You know, you don’t have to, you can choose to be happy. All this shit that’s going on, the vaccines are going to do.

They might do all the work. Fuck it. I don’t care. I choose to be happy. And if you work at managing the. The biology that you have get good sun, get good exercise hop in that ice bath. You’re much more likely than the chemicals in your brain are working better and you’re just are naturally happier. But again, the programming we have is that that’s not a good idea.

No, you couldn’t. You couldn’t be happy now with everything that’s going on. You couldn’t possibly be happy. Big game, long game, big game, only game only game. Be happy. That’s all there is.

Dan Shukis: [00:52:10] I’m totally with you. And, um, it gets me thinking too, because, uh, I just moved this year and yeah, I’m pretty damn happy this year. Like I am keeping this podcast going, I’m playing in a band. I get to snowboard cause I live in a ski town and uh, you know, a part of me is sorta like, Man. I’m so happy.

Like I should be a little bit guilty. I should feel a little

Alex Tsakiris: [00:52:35] Right, right,

Dan Shukis: [00:52:36] this, but it’s just like, if you’re cultivating your own happiness and sort of a self centered way, it has effects on the people in your life. And you’re actually doing good work by just focusing on yourself so that you’re, you are happy and you’re not carrying around resentment and all of this stuff.

And, and when you’re saying, you know, with, when you’re talking about Wim Hoff, When you’re talking about the, um, the guy that’s saying stop thinking, or don’t think I’m I’m with you a hundred percent. I think it’s just important to think about that as a practice. Like you, can’t just, I think if you want to actually stop thinking you have to work at it rather than just do it on command .

Alex Tsakiris: [00:53:19] Okay. But just, just to be clear, Tim Grimes is saying the exact opposite of that. He’s saying, get that out of your head.

Dan Shukis: [00:53:28] I agree with what he’s saying, I guess, um, I’ve never read his work or anything, but I like the idea that, yeah, it’s not this like complicated practice. Yeah. Just stop thinking. Just make it easy. Don’t overthink it. Don’t think. I think that’s great too. But. In my experience of trying to,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:53:50] Do you think, do you think when you snowboard.

Dan Shukis: [00:53:53] Oh no, that’s what I, that’s why I do it. But yeah, the, the, like the flow state that you get into, whether it’s, you know, making art or snowboarding or any of that, that’s, that’s amazing. But even I’m just saying that you have to at least put a little bit of work into it. Like say, if you just want to not think and snowboarding is your way of doing that.

Well, you at least have to like figure out how to snowboard as much as possible, which can be, I don’t know. I’m just saying it takes a little bit of work to do. I still consider that a practice to, to not think. And I think practice, you get better at it with time and I don’t. I don’t necessarily agree that if you just say, don’t think now, and it’ll take no work, just do it now.

Instant success. I I’m more of like of the opinion that it does take work in the long run, but it is a great, um, goal and it’s a great sentiment for sure.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:59] So, uh, we’ve been at this for a little while. Tell folks what’s going on it. Cosmic keys, who you got coming up to, who you’re talking to, where you’ve, where you’re planning on going.

Dan Shukis: [00:55:12] No. Well, um, I’ve got a lot of interviews on deck at the moment. Um, and I’ve been, I’m trying to bring it kind of more back. I’m really interested in talking about astrology. Um, we didn’t really talk about astrology in this interview, but it’s a thing that I am actually. Pretty skeptical of at the end of the day, but I, what I like about astrology is.

Just the act of observing time. It, it, you know, if you make predictions or if you make interpretations, that’s one thing. But if you just simply observe the movement, I think that’s, um, the most fulfilling thing about astrology. So I’m going to be talking to people about the astrology of 20, 21 and kind of what we’re we might expect there.

And I’m definitely just. You know, trying to keep it going and keep talking to people that I find interesting. I’m discovering a lot of new podcasts out there as well. And, um, Just kinda, you know, even talking with you, talking with all the other podcasters that I speak with, I love the networking aspect of it, and it’s, it’s extremely fun to, you know, schedule an hour interview and just have a real conversation once a week, versus all the mundane conversations that we usually have with people with everyday people.

So. I’m just, you know, following my bliss and bringing, um, whatever, just I’m open to whatever comes with the future of the show. But, uh, yeah, and I th I think I’m going to be changing the Patrion format, so that’s going to be coming up later on, but, um, yeah, that’s about all I can think of with cosmic keys.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:57:13] fan, I’m going to continue to listen. And this has been a great chat, kind of went a bunch of different places. We didn’t really plan it, but that’s okay.

Dan Shukis: [00:57:23] Oh, yeah, that’s perfectly fine. I had a great time chatting here and, um, I’ve really been enjoying your show too. And I’ve, uh, I, I liked that you have me, a podcasts are on and I I’ve like, I’ve actually subscribed to a handful of the. The podcasters you’ve recently had on and have been really enjoying those shows too.

So maybe someone listening will catch my show and I just like discovering new voices. And you’ve been doing that more recently. It seems like

Alex Tsakiris: [00:57:59] Yeah, and I’m going to continue to do it cause I can’t could not agree with you more about just having meaningful conversations, you know, on a regular basis. And I think podcasters. And like I told you when we first talk, I mean, I was turned on to what you’re doing. I was like, wow, this is great. These are great conversations that Dan’s have, and I really want to join in.

So, uh, it’s a cool process.

Dan Shukis: [00:58:27] Yeah, well, like I told you, I’ve been listening to skeptical since. Probably like 2014 or 15 or something. And you’re totally up there with, you know, I mean, my sh I, I just didn’t like doing my show the way I think podcasts should sound. And your show, the conversation style you have is an influence on me, same with a lot of other, a lot of others, but, uh, we’re all kind of where it’s all kind of like a big network and we’re all kind of just.

Helping each other out and bouncing ideas and inspiring things with each other. So it’s all good.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:59:06] Absolutely. It’s all good. Okay. Dan cosmic keys, check it out. It’s great. Having you.

Dan Shukis: [00:59:13] Yeah. Thanks again, Alex. It was really fun.

Thanks again to Dan for joining me to dance kept go do check out his show. Cosmic keys. I promise you won’t be disappointed.

The one question I tee up from this episode would be.

Do you think we.

What do you think of the long game? Big game, only game idea that we’re kicking around here.

Are a lot of our frustrations and.

Are a lot of our frustrations. Are a lot of our frustrations in words. Are a lot of our frustrations in worries. Due to the fact that we focus too much on the now game and not enough on the big game.

Let me know your thoughts. Love for you to join me over on the skeptical forum, but you don’t have to do that for you. Don’t want to, you can just continue to listen to the show. I have some new ones coming up real soon. Stay with me for all of that. Until next time, take care. And bye for now.

 

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