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Alan Warren is a bestselling author and radio host who kinda covers the paranormal and conspiracies.

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Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:15] That’s of course, South Park and I have to say, you know, when South Park is on, they are really, really on still still to this day. And I don’t know why I thought it was fitting for this kind of strange but interesting discussion with author and radio host, Alan Warren, who I have almost nothing in common with. But in the end, I guess we do find some common ground. We are like the opposite extreme of every question I asked him, you know, are you a biological robot in a meaningless universe? He says yes. You know, conspiracies? No, you know, extended consciousness, No.

Alan Warren: [00:01:00] Well, first of all, both the traditional Church of Satan and the Church of Satan have given me an honorary doctorate. So, if you want to talk about satanic worship, and what’s real and what isn’t, it’s all man made. Hopefully, we all want the same thing in the end, right? We all just want to be happy, live a good life and enjoy our freedom ,I hope that’s what we want. And with that, yeah, there’s gonna be bumps along the way. But I don’t see why we need to bring down other people and hurt other people.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:36 ] By the way Alan is from Canada. Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality, with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris and today we welcome Alan Warren to Skeptiko. Al is a best selling author. So many, many books, amazing, I mean, Above Suspicion, Blood Thirst and Pirate Killer of Canada, I could just go on and on that many, many books, bestsellers. He’s also the host and producer of very popular NBC news talk radio, True Crime history, conspiracy show House of Mystery. So he’s really very interesting guy and we were just chatting a minute ago about this interview, because it’s one of these that kind of took a twist as the more I got into Al’s stuff because at first glance, I was like, wow, this guy is into a lot of the same stuff I am and then he was nice enough to do this little survey questionnaire thing that I’ve been doing and lo and behold, we are like, we’re like the opposite extreme of every question I asked him, you know. Are you a biological robot in a meaningless universe? He says, Yes. You know, conspiracies? No, you know, extended consciousness, No. So one of the things I thought would be cool, I know it’s a long intro but I want to set people up for this. You know, at this time at this particular time, when people can’t even dialogue, can’t even sit in the same room and say, you know, what do you believe? That’s okay, here’s what I believe. It might be interesting to explore two things, one, hopefully demonstrate that we can do that a little bit. But also maybe explore how you do that without giving up your sense of self, enough to say, Yeah, but here’s where I think the facts lie. So that very long, lengthy introduction, it is really a great pleasure to welcome you to the show Al, thank you so much for joining me.

Alan Warren:[00:04:11] Oh, it’s my pleasure. I look forward to it.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:04:17] Well, we’ll see what you say in an hour.

Alan Warren:[00:04:21] No, it’ll be fine. You know like I was saying before, you know, it’s not exchanging ideas should not be an angry, emotional thing. You know, the idea of freedom and America and freedom of speech and that whole thing is that we exchange ideas that we do have differences and that, you know, we stay true to one thing and that is the actual freedom. So you know, it, you know, at the end of the day, you might not agree with a lot of what I say and I might not agree with you, but the thing is at the end of the day, we’re both still here, and there’s just no, I just don’t understand all the anger that people have in their conversations and even political when they get out there. I just,I don’t understand why there’s so much emotion right now.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:11] Do you think, because I’m going to jump right to one of the things that I suspect is that a lot of that is engineered, if you will and I say that word very carefully. And that, you know, I think we all know how to push each other’s buttons, right? We can do it, you know, you’re a smart guy and I’ve heard enough feature interviews, you don’t push buttons and anyone who doesn’t push buttons or probes, in a way, knows how to do it. And I think collectively, it’s just a given, I mean, we turn on the news, I mean, we know how to push buttons. So do you think some of this is engineered?

Alan Warren: [00:05:53] Oh, for sure. I agree with that totally, except for the engineering isn’t always for the same reason and isn’t always by the same people. So you know, a lot of it is political. But it’s, that’s not what it’s all about, you know, so we have to be careful not to generalize and say, that might be a lot of the problem just to say, oh, all of one group, it’s the agenda of so and so. And to pick a group and to always just, and to lump everybody in that same group is the first problem because we’re all very unique and we all have different experiences. And so for me to just say that, let’s say, you know, even say something like you, oh, he’s just a conspirator, he’s just whatever. What is the point of lumping someone in without hearing about, because there’s going to be a lot of details you can pass on to me that I’m not going to get from anybody else. So again, you know, I’m back to that same thing, yeah, some of it is engineered. But isn’t it also our responsibility to make ourselves aware and make our self a little bit more intuitive and more intelligent and understand things, you know, try to really listen and kind of go well, you know, where that’s coming from, and just kind of walk by, you know, we don’t have to absorb all of this stuff.

Alex Tsakiris:[00:07:22] You know there’s two things that you said there that I think, really deserve to be pulled apart. One is to kind of have the discernment to say, I’m being played and I won’t be played, I won’t be manipulated in that way. Whether it’s, you know, and again, we got to be, get down to specifics or it just all sounds, you know, kind of airy fairy out there. So, you know, if, like, the way I like to do it, like I could talk Black Lives Matter, you know, but that’s going to be too hot, or I could talk the Pandemic , that’s going to be too hot. What I’ve been talking about on the show for the last year is Gloria Steinem. Right, because she kind of popped up in this latest, they did, I think it was Netflix, wherever he did a really great show on it and she’s an interesting kind of person. But historically, Gloria Steinem has been outed, she outed herself. Well, first, she was outed as being CIA, and that she was confronted with it and she had to acknowledge it. She had to say, well, yeah, I was CIA. But that’s okay because, you know, they really aren’t the bad guys you think they are and really needed to do it for the movement, and all the rest of that. And then if you further deconstruct that, like we have, and you go look at the evidence, you can look at her former bosses at the CIA ,I’t really, her story doesn’t really add up, she’s massaging the story, in that she was CIA from get, from jump, not just, it’s not like she was a feminist, who used the CIA to advance her cause. She was a CIA operative, who was then assigned to be a feminist. This is disclosed in documents from her operatives and from her operator bosses at the CIA that she did this, right. So that puts a completely different spin on what that means and you know, I spoke with the woman just really, I really like and respect her and she was the former head and founder of the Women’s Studies Program at Cal State Chico, which is, besides being a good party school, also a good enough school, good academically, and she was really cool and very open to hearing that information because it’s very new to her. It was obviously outside of what she wanted to kind of go. And her first reaction is the reaction that a lot of women who are attached to that movement say it’s like, I don’t care. You know, the women’s movement needed to happen and so the CIA was involved, I don’t care it needed to happen. And on one level, I totally get that, because it did need to happen. My mother didn’t have any opportunities other than just be a wife or be a nurse maybe. But it didn’t fit her, you know, she was into jazz, she was into, she was an artist. It didn’t fit her at all and she was in this box, and she was really struggling to get outside of that box. Things are different now. Things are better now. And Gloria Steinem helped make that happen. But can we really accept that a group of CIA guys engineered and ran that program? Covertly? And can we really accept that Gloria Steinem never really came clean, she still hasn’t come clean on it all the way. It’s only as the information rolls out that she give a little bit more and a little bit more. So that’s, that’s my little speech on that one that I think applies to all these things, because the way it applies to Black Lives Matter is there a real issue in terms of racism in our country Abse-frickin-lutely, you know, is that something that we need to take time and deep thought on? Absolutely. Is it somehow a game that’s being engineered and run, just like Gloria Steinem was being engineered and run, Abse-frickin-lutely.

Alan Warren: [00:11:37] I listened to that, but I’m not sure. I’m not sure what you want me to say about it?

Alex Tsakiris :[00:11:46 ] Well see that’s a great point. But go ahead. Did you have anything else to say about that?

Alan Warren : [00:11:51 ] No, because in essence, you might be right. I think that you know, I don’t know enough about Gloria Steinem to really comment. But as far as Black Lives Matter, you know, if they. So it’s your, in your contention that they were engineered from before they even became a movement? Or is it something that sort of happened?

Alex Tsakiris : [00:12:18] Let’s go back to Gloria Steinem because there was an interesting moment in this conversation that gets back to what I was talking about at the beginning of how these conversations go, how these dialogues kind of run afoul I guess, I feel like. It’s like, I just told you facts. You can go look up those facts, you can go look up the documents, you can go look up the interview where Gloria Steinem says herself she was in the CIA, that’s out there on YouTube, you can watch it, her own lips, she’s moving, she’s saying that. So we could pause this interview if you want and we can come back two days later and you can go, you can go back up and see if everything I’m saying is true. But my experience is people don’t want to do that. Because they don’t want to, they didn’t really don’t want their beliefs to change. They don’t want to deal with the question that I posed, which is, do you want the CIA running the women’s movement? You know, and how far do you want to go to say, well, Gee, if the CIA is involved, that changes everything for me.

Alan Warren: [00: 13:24 ] Well, I think No, I don’t have a belief in anything that would change whether Gloria Steinem was right in with the CIA from birth or not. I just like to, in fact, I would probably want to know more about it in the sense of when did she join? Why did she join? Was it part of just a couple of members? Was there an agenda by the whole organization? Like, I’d like to know more details on the background? Rather than, and it’s not that I don’t believe you it’s more about, first of all, more background, what was the agenda? And also, what is it that we’re, that you think we should do now, today, in 2020 about what Gloria Steinem did in the 60s and her involvement with the CIA then, like, what is, what’s our outcome? How are we going to make this better? And what do you, what do you want to happen?

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 14:31] Well, so in the first part of that, again, when you’re getting hit with this stuff, you know, like I am, and there’s no reason you would know this unless you’ve done this kind of obscure conspiratorial research, which everyone needs to do, and that’s where you need to start and we’ve been conditioned and trained not to do that not to look at the other side. So you’ll go find these documents. You’ll go sought by these interviews, you’ll go find the people in the feminist movement who first outed Gloria Steinem that’s how she got outed by fellow feminists who said, this is fo feminism. This is someone co opting our movement, that’s how she came out, that’s how she was outed. But the part that you kind of skipped over, it’s not like they recruited members of the feminist movement, that is they the CIA, Gloria Steinem from the time she was in college, was identified as someone who the CIA was going to work with. So they gave her a fellowship, they gave her money, they gave her her first job was infiltrating like, student organizations, and music movements. And you can actually go read the memos from her bosses who come back and go, Wow, this woman is a superstar man, she is the thing, you know. So all that was before feminism. But let’s just put that as maybe what I’m saying is true thing and get to your second question. I don’t know. I don’t know. But I think it’s completely fundamental to, because it’s fundamental to what we believe about our government about how social justice works, about how social change works. It’s fundamental to all of that. So until we answer those questions, until we wrestle something like that to the ground, factually, we can’t answer the second part of that question.

Alan Warren: [00: 16:44] Well, then I’ll leave it up to you to figure this out. I’m just not sure. Well, I’m not sure exactly what, where you want to go with this? I’m not sure what. I’m trying to think what you exactly want to achieve? I’m just not sure. If all you say is true, then I’m just not sure is this, How are you relating this to 2020?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:17:23 ] Well, the first way it relates to 2020 is that we still don’t have the history straight. We’re doing Netflix specials that tell a different history. And I think most people in this country would have a different feeling about feminism, the woman I told you who you know, is the head of the woman study at Chico State, this would be very, very relevant to her work, to a women’s studies department at any university. So it’s something that does need to be understood and it’s, see, that’s where I don’t feel like we’re really engaging here because it’s obviously extremely relevant. Right?

Alan Warren: [00:18:08] Well I’m, I’m not sure what part of it that you’re trying to, to address is it that it’s not written in history properly and that places like Netflix is not really giving us the full story. Or whoever else writes or talks about any of that sort of stuff. I’m just trying to figure out what your point is trying to address. Like, Who is it? Who is it that should do what?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:57 ] Well Al, I mean, Gloria Steinem was a CIA operative and she was the one running the women’s movement.

Alan Warren: [00: 19:06] Okay.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:19:06 ] That doesn’t change your paradigm, your worldview, about social justice, about social movements, about how things change, like we start this discussion by talking about engineering, that doesn’t change your worldview regarding how what we think we know is engineered?

Alan Warren: [00:19:29 ] No, because I believe a lot of things have been engineered. A lot of things have been pushed, a lot of agendas have been achieved and some haven’t. But I don’t know 50 years later it’s all done. And I don’t believe that there’s a current like as people would say, a deep state that runs the world. A global I’m not an Alex Jones guy. So I can’t go that far. You know if this in this particular case, she might have been, you know it, let’s say you’re 100% right, she was exactly what you say she was. That’s cool. Let’s go with that. But it’s a done deal, it’s past. Yeah, there should be more information that comes out about it now, because it’s so long ago. I don’t know what difference it would make for a lot of people in the public because I think the the goal was achieved and most people agree with what the outcome was. So I’m kind of not at a, I’m just trying to figure out where, where you’re trying to connect this? Yeah, there’s things engineered, it doesn’t change my point of view at all. If I find out things like this are 100% true. I’m not surprised. America, this is what America has been all about, as far as I’m concerned. And as I get older, it becomes more and more about it. And I don’t think it’s changed and I don’t think it’s going to change in our lifetime. So I think that we have to, like you said, we have to be more specific. So when you take a specific case like Gloria Steinem, you also have to have a specific remedy. We also have to have, this is what we need to do with Gloria Steinem. This is how we need to talk, this has to come out , that’s all fair enough. But I don’t automatically change the whole world as it is now. It doesn’t make me feel any different about CIA.

Alex Tsakiris : [00: 21:54 ] Well, how do you feel about CIA? Because it seemed to me what you said. To me, there’s a contradiction between saying and I hear this all the time in people who are like, anti conspiracy theory, which is kind of like, on its face, it’s just kind of ridiculous because we all accept that there are these conspiracies, we run into them all the time you know, I mean, that’s how the world works, particularly if you come from the business world like I did. Everything businesses, everything, is a conspiracy you know, it’s like, Where do you buy your hot dog buns? If you’re McDonald’s? You know, it’s like, everything that involves any kind of money or power is a conspiracy. Why would it be any different politics? Why would it be any different in intelligence organizations? But, you know, you seem like to me, like you’re started off by saying, Well, I don’t believe this deep state nonsense. Well, Gloria Steinem does example a deep, deep state, it’s a hidden force, that’s decided to step on the playing field, in order to engineer socially,engineer our beliefs and our values. Jesus, you can’t get any more deep state than that. So either push against it and go, Well, that’s bullshit. It didn’t really happen that way. But if it did, then you’re in the deep state soup. It’s just a matter of whether you think the deep state is okay or not,

Alan Warren: [00:23:16 ] No, because that’s a generalization because as soon as you take an event like this, then all of a sudden, everybody uses deep state. Anytime people have an anger, which most do about something, they direct that toward an outside entity rather than inward, which is really where it is. So you know, this man made thing of being a deep state as a general thing we don’t know. So all of a sudden, the deep state does everything that we don’t like and that’s what, that’s where it comes because it’s not specific enough, rather than saying CIA agents, in the 1960s. infiltrated and did something with Gloria Steinem to create some sort of engineered event to, to do something that specific, I believe in specific things, but I don’t think there’s a general group that all of a sudden, it’s like a membership. We have this membership. And you know, and it’s really, really bizarre to me, that the deep state is always made out of rich liberals and it’s laughable, like everybody from Bill Gates to, you name it, if they’re on, if they’re a liberal and they’ve got money, then they’re obviously part of the Deep State and they’re globalists, they want to kill people they want to reduce, they want to make us not be able to have children there. It just goes on and on and on. And that if you’re from the business world, you know, that’s absolutely absurd because there’s as many or more conservative rich people that try to control our deep state things as any liberal. So it’s just it’s just a fallacy that whole thing is too general and that’s my issue with it. It’s not that there isn’t people doing things, we’re not specific. It’s like when people say well, libtard’s or they call Republicans, they call both sides names and I look at things and I thought, well, you can’t generalize and say, all people have one specific area, or one specific race or sexual identity or anything is now all of a sudden, something. And that’s what it’s become. It’s not, we’re not relying on facts, we’re relying on how we feel about a person’s lifestyle or politics or image. And that’s ridiculous, you know, pizza gate, pedophile Hollywood, they’re all that way. Like you hear all of these things rather than specifics, rather than a specific event with evidence. So that’s my issue.

Alex Tsakiris : [00:26:15 ] Well you must hang around different groups, different Deep State researchers than I do, because I don’t know anyone who looks at the deep state and thinks it’s liberal or I mean, most of the people I know who will look at that are completely apolitical, like I am like…

Alan Warren : [00:26:32 ] No, not at all.

Alex Tsakiris : [00: 26:33] Well,in my…

Alan Warren: [00:26:33] Alex Jones, you name a person around the Alex Jones, 6 million followers. That whole group that is ,an even coast to coast place, George Noory, that whole empire is all red. If you love, you’ll never hear a negative, derogatory, you find one interview on that, show about a conservative anywhere in the world, or them being part of any manipulation, or any sort of negative, terrible event happening. Everything is caused by someone. George Soros is probably the biggest one, you know, ex Nazi, you know, but he’s behind, you know, everything. False flags, school shootings, that never happened. Crisis actors, you get into all this generalization and hurt a lot of people. But it’s always, always about politics. That’s where you’re mistaken. If you’re around people that are not ,that I don’t know, you must have an exclusive unit that I’ve never come across.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:27:49] But I’ve just been doing a ton of interviews and there’s a bunch of people I just interviewed Stephen Schneider, I just interviewed…

Alan Warren: [00: 27:56] You just talking about what I said with millions of followers not 1000s. When talking about the…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:03] Well I get it , I get it

Alan Warren: [00:28:05] The coast to coast and you find out…

Alex Tsakiris : [00:28:08 ] But Al, this is you’re doing, you’re doing exactly…

Alan Warren: [00:28:11] That’s majority.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:12] But you’re doing exactly what you’re railing against. You’re kind of identifying one person, you’re generalizing that what? So Alex Jones has a particular set of political beliefs. So what? The idea of deep state, if he’s co opted that in some way for you that you can’t think otherwise? That’s fine. But I’m telling you, you know, you look at a lot of this stuff in the deep state where that really took traction, was when 911. 911 was, they were all Republicans, right. George Bush, Dick Cheney, they were republican as they can get. I’ve talked about the pizza gate thing for years. First of all, what a lot of people don’t understand about pizza gate and I don’t want to get on and talk about Michael Shermer and consciousness because there’s like 300 shows like consciousness. I don’t really talk about the Soviet political stuff. But my consciousness research, which do you think are biological robot and meaningless universe and consciousness doesn’t exist in your master’s in music and that’s why you think Michael Shermer knows science, I’m going to show you in a minute that it’s, he completely doesn’t know what he does. He’s not a good scientist. He’s a PhD in history, but he’s a good guy you know. Here’s my point, though back on the other point of, you know, Alex Jones in the the 911. Truth is right they were all against George Bush. They were all against Dick Cheney. They were all against the opposite people and when pizza gate happened. Pizza gate was a conspiracy. It was a political psyop against john Podesta. The goal was to sync Hillary Clinton by releasing these emails and if you don’t believe otherwise, you can tell me but when they release 400 highly explosive emails four days before a presidential election. Do you think that’s accident that they’re released four days? Do you think that the fact that the emails are particularly sensitive to the Christian voting block and it really going to make them Oh my God, we can’t let this satanist Hillary and her satanist friends in there, do you think that’s an accident? Or do you think that’s a conspiracy?

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 58:01 ] So you have a bunch of true crime and serial killer kind of stuff. What What do people find most interesting in those books, what books are most popular in that genre?

Alan Warren: [00: 58:17] Well, the, you know, people love to hear from a killer for some reason. And right now I’m more when I write the book, what happened but I’m not into the gory details. So if you’re looking for you know, this gore Fest, you’re not going to get it. I’m more about what happens to people and the justice system. So when we get, like this last book was really about a man that killed six people, a family and now he’s up for for parole. And what the family goes through every year and a half to go to these parole meanings and what our justice system has done in the in the sense of if you’re not part of it, you don’t you don’t understand it. So it’s kind of all angles, I’m kind of, you know, how this killers married someone, he’s in prison for murdering six people, including two children, which he raped six or nine and 11 and he’s married a woman now with two children from her previous marriage. just , yeah, just the whole outlook of what goes on in an injustice. And that’s probably why people like that sort of thing right now, but like I said, they’re not gore fests or it’s more about the whole the big picture.

Alex Tsakiris : [00:59:44] Well, it’s really cool, as you know, is evidenced by this research this discussion we’ve had today, how you can hold these seemingly contradictory ideas and happenings yeah, and hold them and contrast them and we really, really need that nowadays, don’t we?

Alan Warren: [01:00:04 ] Yeah, I don’t know why we can’t, why do we have to have the definite answer? Why do we need to you know, on some things for sure, but why do we need to you know, just say this is that period and gain and over and what? A lot of these things we don’t, we can’t say that, not with 100% confidence. So I think that God, just keep on moving, keep on trucking, you know, you’re alive and and you got your mind you’ve got your health, let’s just keep doing it, doing the right thing and just, that’s all I can say. We go forward and hopefully it all turns out,

Alex Tsakiris : [01:00:43] And you sounded way, way too spiritual for…

Alan Warren 1:00:48

What you don’t need, you don’t need to have a belief in a religion in order to be spiritual.

Alex Tsakiris :[01:00:57 ] Right on, because it seems mediation.

Alan Warren: [01:00:59] Yeah

Alex Tsakiris: [01:01:00 ] Dis mediation.

Alan Warren: [01:01:01] Yeah. Because you know, things that,you know, one thing I did learn from Shermer, I will say was that we don’t need to have that, people can be good and people can care about other people without believing in a God, and he said that to me once about three, four years and and that really stuck with me. It’s one of the few things that stuck with me from him, but it’s true, because you know, you can honestly care about other people and what happens to other people and helping others and doing good things. Without, I don’t need to go to church every Sunday you know, I don’t need to wear my Mormon underwear, right? I mean that in the nicest way.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:01:44] Gosh, you know, you don’t have to be nice on that one. Hey, our guest again, has been Alan R. Warren, as in AlanRWarren.com. You can check out all of his books on Amazon very easy to find because he is such a prominent author, and check out House of mystery radio show. It’s been just great talking to you, Al I’m so glad we persisted on this interview. I hope people appreciate you know what we’re trying to do here and bring in two people who seem to disagree and finding out we don’t really disagree is kind of a cool thing, isn’t it?

Alan Warren: [01:02:20] Yeah we all, we hopefully,we all want the same thing at the end, right? We all just want to be happy, live a good life and enjoy our freedom. I hope that’s what we want and and with that, yeah, there’s going to be bumps along the way but I don’t see why we need to bring down other people and hurt other people we just need to keep on helping you know.

Alex Tsakiris : [01:02:43] Nice, nice.

Alan Warren: [01:02:45 ] I sound corny don’t I ?

Alex Tsakiris: [0 1:02:48] Sounds like a sermon ,we’re gonna put a,we’re gonna put a Bible in your hand when you start a little church here.

Alan Warren: [01:02:53] That’s right, that’s right, that’s right. No, okay. Get away with free tax.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:02:58 ] There you go and no masks.

Alan Warren: [01:03:01] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:03:02] There you go, double. Hey Al, thank you so much and toxin. Yeah, thank you very much. Take care.

Alan Warren: [01:03:11] You too.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:03:13] Thanks again to Alan Warren for joining me on Skeptiko. The one question I tee up from this interview is, what do you do personally, to make it more possible to talk with people who you don’t agree with fundamentally kind of on these kind of fundamental issues? What techniques have you found to be personally effective? I’d like to know I’d really like to know and I’d love for you to join me on the Skeptiko forum and tell me what your answers are to that so do that if you feel inclined, do stick around. I have some I think pretty good shows coming up. Until next time, take care. Bye for now.

 .

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