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Philip Fairbanks has spent 15 years following the path of MKUltra and the shadow gov.

 

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Clip: Your fear of capture and imprisonment is an implant from millions of years ago.

Your spirit was free. Moving from body to the next bottle free for a moment that it was captured by an invader force bent and turning into the darkest way. You’ve been implanted with a push pole mechanism that keeps you fearful of authority and destructive. We are in the middle of a battle. That’s a trillion years in the making and it’s bigger than the boat making this shit up.

(—-)

Alex Tsakiris: That’s Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix from the movie, the master, which is kind of loosely based on the life of L Ron Hubbard, which is a topic that we certainly talk about today in this interview with. Gosh, just a great, great, , researcher and writer, author. Philip fair banks. Here’s one of many clips I wanted to share with you.

[00:00:56] Alex Tsakiris: Like you’re saying with, with L Ron, you know, he done only gets the girl. Then he says, yeah, you know, this strange boat dealer, we’re going to go to Miami and buy a boat and sail it back here to California and we’ll make a lot of money and we’ll split it all. We need you to do

[00:01:11] Phillip Fairbanks: sit up all the money and give us a free boat to get the other boat with.

So that’s literally after, but this is with Marjorie, Marjorie, Cameron, his ex, like I almost have to respect L Ron occasionally because he comes from that like larger than life, PT, Barnum, , huckster tradition. That’s so quintessentially American, you know, what’s more American than PT, Barnum.

Like, you know what, I’m going to take a bunch of rubes for their money. , , , it’s just so, insane like, , they were going to do a sex ritual out in the desert.

And I think this is how he stole his girlfriend a thing, because like initially Jack Parsons was going to have sex with his girlfriend. He’s like, wait, Jack,

[00:01:59] Alex Tsakiris: maybe I’ll have sex with your

[00:02:02] Phillip Fairbanks: girlfriend. And you could be the one who’s like watching us and saying the stuff you can be reciting stuff while I’m having sex with your girlfriend who we will later embezzle from you.

[00:02:14] Alex Tsakiris: You actually jumped to, , the next bracket of reality beyond that, which is the spiritual. So when he does go out and perform these rites and rituals under the direction of, , Croley right, cause curly is in communication with Jack Parsons, Jack Parsons reaches out to and acrolein says, I’m your number one guy.

I want to be your number one agent. And, and, uh, you know, uh, curly from all accounts has a little bit of that huckster in him too.

[00:02:41] Phillip Fairbanks: Yeah. And he loved Jack. Apparently I think that the, that relationship. Uh, because when he saw he’s like, no, no, no, that’s what you do to the other guy. You don’t, you don’t believe in that stuff.

You get the other guy to believe in, you take his girlfriend and his money and his boat and that’s the trick

(—–)

So, I know I usually just have one clip in these shows, but I think I might have to start doing more, particularly when you’ve got a guy like Phil Fairbank’s, who.

Is just willing to go a lot of places that not everybody’s willing to go

(—-)

[00:03:21] Phillip Fairbanks: Cold. Is downstream of religion, , religion shapes the culture, which shapes the society, which shapes the individual. . Even if it’s just good for me and a few hundred million others on earth, I think it’s worthwhile thing,

(—-)

[00:03:36] Alex Tsakiris: Until we understand some of that spiritual stuff until we’re willing to go there because the first step we have to go is, okay, psychology is bullshit. It’s been engineered to promote a certain viewpoint. And then we look at the political, which is where you’re willing to take us.

Is this a brown stemming operations a day human compromise operation? Yes, it is. But then the third layer is, is it evil in some way that we don’t normally talk about?

[00:04:06] Phillip Fairbanks: almost hint to that in, the first chapter where I talk about like the Cleveland street scandal, and Louis Carroll, , the author of Alice’s adventures in Wonderland.

And, uh, talk about, and Barry, the author of Peter pan, uh, which sadly, you know, for anybody who wasn’t aware, sadly, they are both most likely pedophiles.

——

So one of the topics Phil and I talked a bit about is MK ultra. And in particular, how it rolls into project Stargate. And I returned to this topic a lot, but I really think it’s important to understand this history because it does seem to be under a rewrite . And the interesting thing about Phillip Fairbank’s is he has been on the MK ultra stuff. Longer than anyone I can think of.

I mean, like almost 20 years. So the amount of information he’s a mass, the amount of documents. That he has, if you really drill into his work, I mean, he has documents and stuff that he’s got for your request stuff that he’s just found squirreled away. So he’s really a pro when it was great to talk to him about that even as horrific. As it is, it’s something I think we have to face.

 

[00:05:18] Alex Tsakiris: Canada’s Mengele, you know, is what they say. It just like godly a biz.

Gottlieb is our Mengele, but yep. As you’ve documented, , , the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people are more than just the what’s become the kind of cartoon Tropo. They gave them LSD at a party when they didn’t know about it, or they were so bad now, man, they were chaining kids down in beds

[00:05:47] Phillip Fairbanks: and not letting them move sensory deprivation stuff.

And you know, you’re not allowed to admit yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:05:55] Alex Tsakiris: Breaking PayPal and breaking people and

[00:05:58] Phillip Fairbanks: intentionally bring this amount of people who would become famous. , and whether it’s guys like Ken Keasy and Leonard Cohen, or whether it’s guys like Charles Manson and Ted Kaczynski, because all of them famously had close ties with, , at least, you know, some element of MK

(—–)

[00:06:18] Alex Tsakiris: The reason I bring up immediately Stargate, just so people understand this, you know, all this stuff backwards and forwards. I’m not telling you, but L Ron Hubbard has start Scientology. So he, whatever blended is of this kind of satanic spiritual occultic real connection with these extended realms and also his kind of pragmatic hucksterism goal, American hucksterism, how can I rip everyone off?

He starts Scientology and lo and behold, because there is this military connection, as you described, military intelligence is, Hey, whatever works, you know what I mean? You want to call it Satan. You want to not lie. We don’t care. We just want to conquer that hill. And to a certain extent, that has to always be the job of.

The military and in a way that we don’t understand, because you’re not inside that culture, but what they’ll tell you is, Hey, we’ve been through this for thousands of years, and I’ll tell you at the end of the day, Phil, when it’s me defending you, you don’t give a fuck. , whether I have Satan tattooed on my back or not.

You just want me to keep those motherfuckers from coming through your front door.

 

Okay, one last clip, maybe one of my favorites, Because for me until you get to the spiritual, you’re really ain’t talking about anything. So when I get a guest who is super well-versed in all these conspiracy topics and really para political history topics, But then is willing to go next level spiritual.

And it’s exciting and he wraps it all up with this final clip.

(—–)

[00:07:54] Phillip Fairbanks: He taking this stuff as a joke or something like, no, , I’ve got kind of a super silliest expression half the time, because if I did know, would go crazy, , because things are so heavy, you know, things are really heavy and, , that’s no reason to let yourself get dragged down by them.

, , one of the tricks of, , the powers that be, is demoralization in depression, , cause you’re not going to be on top of things. You’re not going to change anything in your own life or outside of your own life, if you’re demoralized and depressed

 

So this is a long interview, longer than most of the ones I do, And that’s. Part of the reason I shared so many clips to maybe motivate you to stick around. If you do stick around. If you listen to it, he Angelina it.

Please share it. This is one that I really hope gets out there far and wide. Stick around for my interview with Philip Fairbank’s.

[00:08:50] Alex Tsakiris: Welcome to skeptical where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Kerrison. Today. We welcome Phillip fair banks to skeptical. Phil is a writer researcher. He’s the author of pedo gate primer. The politics of pedophilia.

And he’s also the author of the forthcoming deep state penetrating the veils of the unelected shadow government.

Phil it’s awesome. I’ve heard you on some great shows. And then we recently saw each other on the union of the unwanted podcast. It was, and, uh, you have some great, great stuff. So it’s great to have you on, I’m super excited to talk about all this stuff at a

[00:09:39] Phillip Fairbanks: of

[00:09:40] Alex Tsakiris: yeah. Great. And, and I like that, you know what my goal here, or my plan is to kind of dispense with the level, one stuff, which I was call it and kind of jump right into some of the deeper waters.

Okay. So let’s start right out, you know, like there’s so much about your background. So I’ve heard a lot about your background living in LA. You started writing at a very young age and all this stuff, but there’s some other cool stuff about your background that. I don’t even know where we’re going to go.

, Tennessee and Protestant evangelical exorcisms. Like I saw,

[00:10:22] Phillip Fairbanks: did you see that? Yeah, it was a, it was around the Halloween, you know, it was the spooky season and, and, uh, I don’t, I was thinking back to, you know, I definitely got a lot of, uh, crazy stories of my past. And that was, that was definitely one of them like a genuine Protestant exorcism, not everybody gets to experience one of those.

So when I got the chance, I made sure to take them up on the offer.

[00:10:50] Alex Tsakiris: So I’m referring to, , an article blog post on Phil’s website, titled the Protestant exorcism, a true story. And maybe you can tell a little bit about the story, cause it’s kind of funny, but also what that means about your, your background.

You know, I mean, you’re a kid you’re going up. There’s a lot of stuff, Tennessee. Very interesting. Interesting Tennessee is interesting. It’s interesting from this paranormal standpoint. So go ahead,

[00:11:19] Phillip Fairbanks: Well, for one thing, , it talking about the background and how it was raised, uh, it’s kind of interesting.

Cause I came from kind of a, uh, somewhat strict kind of fundamentalist upbringing, you know, homeschooled until fifth grade granddad was a, , Southern Baptist preacher and, you know, , and, , that definitely shaped a lot of, uh, you know, who I am and whatnot. Then I’d say probably in my teens, I started, you know, uh, you know, kind of getting interested in some other things, especially a lot of the stuff that was considered taboo, , when I was growing up, you know, and that would include like pretty much anything, paranormal or, or, you know, uh, anything to do with PSI or ESP or UFO’s or any of that kind of stuff was all, you know, part of the new age conspiracy, because, you know, I kind of grew up during the satanic panic.

, where, you know, heavy metal and Dungeons and dragons and, and magic, the gathering and all that kind of stuff, you know, star wars and star Trek, , you know, uh, and to, to be fair, you know, when I look back at a lot of that stuff now, you know, I think it’s silly to say that it’s, you know, necessarily, , watching star Trek, the next generation, isn’t going to, you know, endanger your immortal soul.

But it is like when you look at it, , it’s kind of, you know, you and improved neoliberal programming, which, you know, one of the things that we’ve been talking about in, in email is, is, uh, like the Stargate, the CIA and military Stargate, you know, uh, gene Roddenberry was connected to some of that weird stuff at Sri with, , , a lot of these, uh, old money, rich families and, and, you know, a lot of them are really interested in UFO’s and side, you know, the Bronfmans who were tied to Nexium and all this kind of stuff, but yeah.

, as far as the, uh, the exorcism story, yeah.

[00:13:12] Alex Tsakiris: Let me, , kind of pause you there for a sec. Cause some, well, there’s just some different pieces that you’ve laid out that I think I want to make sure people get, you know, is so like this period where you’re growing up in and kind of the strict, you know, Homeschooling Christian fundamentalist kind of thing.

And then the rebellious teenager, you know, you’re doing drugs out in the woods with

[00:13:36] Phillip Fairbanks: your friends

[00:13:38] Alex Tsakiris: and all that stuff. And that’s a story that gets repeated over and over again. And, you know, One of the things we might explore and throw out here is to what extent, uh, Christianity plays into that, because then we see the, you know, sin and redemption and the way

[00:13:57] Phillip Fairbanks: it’s out.

Yeah. It is. I’ve seen other people, you know, like, , you know, multiple people have a similar story where maybe they had a Christian upbringing and then go through this rebellious period end up, you know, experimenting with drugs and Croley, and Robert, Anton Wilson and leery and Lily and all this kind of stuff.

And then have kind of, uh, you know, uh, you know, excuse the pun here, but have a come to Jesus moment where it’s like, you know, actually what I was looking for this, you know, this spirituality, this connection, , it was there all along. , and, you know, uh, as for me, , yeah, that’s, I dunno, it’s like, I kind of had a realization, I think a Phillip K Dick helped me a little bit with that.

Uh, the science fiction author who was also maybe schizophrenia and, uh, definitely a Gnostic, but like, you know, I was reading some of his stuff and, uh, especially like, , it was like a speech he given and he was talking about Gnosticism in a bad time is an illusion. It’s all it’s, it sounds nutty.

But at the same time, it was like, okay, metaphor or not, this makes sense. And like, it, it had that. Crazy cooky, psychedelic element to it. But at the same time it was, , it’s, Christianity at the same time, you know, the, the, this, you know, the, this ancient warfare between good and evil and et cetera.

So, , , for me, , it kinda kind of dovetailed back, I found in appreciated, , Christianity, , more the second time maybe. Uh, I don’t know if that makes sense. I think, I think a lot of people who, you know, I I’ve seen this a lot with people who were raised in a church and then kind of, you know, it grows stale for them and then other people who aren’t raised with religion, and then they find it as an adult and it’s just, wow, they latch onto it.

It’s this new thing, you know? So, , I, I think I got, kinda got a chance to experience that with my little, , prodigal trip.

[00:15:52] Alex Tsakiris: Well, there’s so much there and I can’t resist kind of diving into the Christian thing cause it’s a big. Thank for me lately, especially when we’re going to talk about cults and we’re going to talk about all these different ways of mind control and stuff like that.

And I just, I don’t want to a priority leave Christianity off the table there because I think that’s where it belongs. I don’t force anyone else to believe that, but I think historically, you know, the historical accounts of Jesus fall into the category of a Roman PSYOP. And I think the evidence of that it’s highly dependent on Josephus and Josephus is clearly an agent

[00:16:31] Phillip Fairbanks: for the Romans with, with Panthera and the idea that, , Mary was possibly, , there is that related to any know,

[00:16:39] Alex Tsakiris: no, it’s really related to just like, do you know, uh, we’re going to go off on a tangent here, but that’s fine.

Do you know who Josephus

[00:16:47] Phillip Fairbanks: is? A historian?

[00:16:49] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, yeah. Yes. So, uh, Josephus is the guy he’s, , in Judah,

[00:16:54] Phillip Fairbanks: he’s Jewish

[00:16:58] Alex Tsakiris: and he’s a general. And, uh, this is most historians who are writing of this period are relying on the works of Josephus. The works of Josephus they’ll admit are flawed because Josephus is a proven liar.

He’s proven liar in his own words. He claims to be the greatest Jewish teacher and knower and have completed all the wisdom traditions of his various three sex by the time he’s 14. It just doesn’t add up in a number of ways. The things

[00:17:33] Phillip Fairbanks: that he’s saying sounds like L Ron Hubbard’s background. I did everything by the time I was 14 and now I’m writing the book on it.

Yeah.

[00:17:43] Alex Tsakiris: And it’s so many people, you know, James, Randy also has that element, you know, and they gave me a special, they gave me a special pass at the library because it was so gifted and knowledgeable, but that’s a totally total other story. The thing about Josephus and people, isn’t the shell, the time kind of get tired of me hammering on it, but there’s actually, , the quote that you can pull up.

And now I can’t, I’m not going to pull up the quote. I always pull up the quote, but it’s right out of Josephus his work. And it is when the space alien, who is the Roman he’s will become the Roman emperor. And he’s vying for that Roman Caesar kind of position. And he uses. Josephus. He turns Josephus. He comes and lands in Galilee and he defeats them in battle.

And what I suspect happens contrary to the conventional conventional history is that Josephus and 40 men lock themselves in a cage or barricade themselves in a cave. And they commence with committing suicide in this kind of round Robin fashion until it gets down to just Josephus and this other guy.

And then wouldn’t, you know, he has a revelation and he says, you know what, maybe we shouldn’t do this. And I’m going to turn myself in. And the reason they had to do the round Robin thing was because Jewish law said you can’t kill yourself because he kills again, the

[00:19:09] Phillip Fairbanks: kind of classic kind of crazy. Yeah, I got ya.

Yeah. Yeah. Like illegal listic but it’s gotta be just so yeah.

[00:19:20] Alex Tsakiris: He goes to Vespasian and now he has this, if this is the conventional history, which is something that’s so interesting to me about history, how they can completely fly off in a different direction in terms of psychic pre-cognitive pre-cognitive, uh, of a prophecy is okay at this part of history. And then in other places, you know, they wouldn’t do it.

I digress again, because what Josephus does, he goes to this Spacey and he goes, I have a vision. You are going to be Cesar and he goes, why? He goes, yes, I have a vision. You’re going to be Cesar. And he goes, keep this guy around. Don’t cut off his head. Like we have everybody else somehow, because he says this, which is a completely absurd idea, but we let those things slip through history.

Cause they get repeated over and over again. What really happened with Josephus is you’ll see if this new, where the fucking gold and silver was buried at the temple. And he cut a deal with the spazy and said, look, kill me. And you’ll never get to it because look at the dead sea scrolls of today. And it’s a treasure map and it says go 200 feet from this 40 feet down.

Here’s so that’s what really happens. This is the original PSYOP. So then he becomes the historian, the Roman historian. He writes this history, but Phil, and again, , this is like one of the most important stories that no one knows about.

He winds up writing war, the Jews, which becomes this kind of fundamental book for all Christian scholars. Up to this point in this book, he actually says, you know, one of the things he’s writing, what he claims to be history and he’s, he’s writing it. We can’t read it with the, with all, everything that we know.

Now we have to read it as if it was at the time he was writing it, because at the time he was writing it, he was trying to influence people. He was trying to do an operation. And what he says in his writing is, you know, what’s wrong with these Jews. And he’s a Jew is that they, in their, all their books, they had read that the Messiah was going to come from the soil of Israel.

And what they didn’t realize is this spazy and was on the soil of Israel when he became emperor. So, Hey, you’re laughing because you get it. This is so obvious, obviously this is like, uh, and, and when I talked to people, I’ve talked to a bunch of pretty valid historians, PhDs and stuff, and they’d go, yeah, but it didn’t, it didn’t work.

Or that was a silly PSYOP. It’s

[00:22:00] Phillip Fairbanks: like, oh, you, you can’t say that. That’s, that, that was what I loved about the Phillip K Dick thing, because it’s the idea that the Roman empire never died. It just pretended to be the holy Roman empire. That’s like all of a sudden it’s, you know, it’s the same folks and it’s the same, you know, right down to the, the, all the trappings of, you know, a lot of what we consider, you know, uh, essential to Christianity was shaped by pagan traditions from where, you know, we go, we go further and further out west and we pick up all these pagan traditions, wherever we stop.

And we add those to Christianity because it’s like a, uh, it’s, it’s like a layout. It fits right over, you know, uh, the, the pagan landscape almost one-to-one, uh, kind of relationship.

[00:22:54] Alex Tsakiris: Totally. So what are we to make of Jesus? That’s the question. That’s the question. As it relates to all this stuff that we’re going to talk about it’s, as it relates to Satanism, as it relates to west Memphis three, you know, the right there and it was west Memphis, Arkansas, but it, you know, it’s the kids walking around with the satanic panic shirts on and the rock and roll bands and all that stuff and everyone going, oh, that’s just ridiculous.

And then people the Christian saying, no that’s Satan and look right here in my Bible, how do we resolve those two extremes that were going to have to find some resolution for, but if the historical Jesus doesn’t hold up and I would maintain, I’m sorry, for the long, long story, historical Jesus, doesn’t hold up.

What does hold up is Christ consciousness that in some way, we don’t understand, you can connect with some divinity and that may connect with or under, so you may understand it to be Jesus. It may present itself to be Jesus who cares. The point is it’s going to try and lead you towards the light. And there’s this other force that’s going to try and lead towards the dark.

And I think we need to sort that out a little bit better than we have been. If we’re really going to get to the bottom of this, what, what, but I’m really jumping into the deep waters,

[00:24:23] Phillip Fairbanks: but are, you know, as, as far as the idea of, you know, even religion as a whole being a PSYOP, to some extent, I think that it’s possible to be religious and to also agree that yes, on the whole, if you just take history, you know, just look at history and see it as it shaped down, down the millennia through a Ian, to Ian.

Yes, absolutely religion and culture, you know, uh, cold. Is downstream of religion, you know, religion shapes the culture, which shapes the society, which shapes the individual. And, uh, and as a result. And I think there is something to religion. , though, I also believe that even if it’s just good for me, , like one of the, one of the questions in your, you know, even if it’s just good for me and a few hundred million others on earth, I think it’s worthwhile thing, you know?

, and, and I also technically believe, I think that religion can be good for you regardless of the religion. For the most part. I think that most religions have a lot of the same basic, you know, morality and, uh, but at the same time, it’s so easy to, uh, you know, take religious belief and, you know, uh, subvert and pervert that, and it, that, and that’s done over and over again.

That’s I, you know, uh, I was raised in, uh, around organized religion, but now I’m not so much a fan, um, you know, even right down to the council of Nicea, you know, I, I don’t know. I don’t know that if, if, if everything that’s in the council of Nicea, you know, the, the great con of 380 or 1 38 D or whenever it was, I don’t know if that’s absolutely vital.

I think honestly, When it comes to like Christianity per se, it’s about the words in red, which is about, you know, forgiveness and love and a way to live your life. Uh, you know, because you know, everything that came before that, you know, and if it’s not just Christianity, you get just the same thing happens with Hinduism to Buddhism.

And, you know, you can even have Judaism then branches into Christianity and then Islam as well. But like, it’s, it’s the same basic morality in the, the 1.0 version is often a little harsher because it came about thousands of years earlier. When you had to beat somebody over the head with a club to get them to understand, no, we don’t kill people.

I’m gonna, you know, I’m going to club this into your head. You don’t kill people. You don’t steal, don’t take your neighbor’s wife, you know, just as basic morality stuff that most, everybody agrees on. Um, Uh, but yeah. Then, then when the second, the 2.0 versions come along, you know, you got Christianity, Islam, Buddhism.

, I think, I think there is a, uh, there’s something in all of them that kind of refines what came before, because what came before are really necessary, like foundational rules or whatever, and a lot of stuff that was probably, , you know, a lot of the Leviticus stuff and a lot of the stuff that you find in like, uh, Hinduism or whatever.

I think a lot of that was situational stuff. Like, you know, it was a good idea at the time and place to do this, and then it just became written in stone. Right. Uh, but it’s the words in red, which is, you know, because that, that the idea for me is that religion, the reason why it’s so easy to subvert and pervert, you know, is because it’s, it’s so vital and it’s, it’s the battle between good and evil.

So it’s easy to get people wound up over that kind of thinking. , and you know, uh, Politics, you know, I forgot who said it, but you know, about how politics and religion, , kinda like Christianity and rock music, you know, like, uh, they should pretty much stick to their own sphere because whenever they try to mix, uh, they ruin each other.

, so yeah, I, I think that, uh, you know, the, the basic essence of Christianity is what’s important. Uh, and, but unfortunately, yeah, like, absolutely I’ve seen, you know, uh, Christianity, especially in the last, in the last, , 2000 years, it’s, it’s it for most of the last 2000 years, it’s been one of the most important factors, , guiding Western culture and civilization, like just in the last couple thousand years.

, and it’s on the wane, I’d say, , like absolutely. You know, like I said, it really does, it comes down to the words and read that’s the important stuff. The rest of it it’s, you know, Uh, like there’s a hundred thousand rules in every religion, but I think, you know, if, if you lose the message that’s to me, like, you know, what makes Jesus so important?

It’s like he came, he came along, basically pointing out, like, no, you can follow all the rules, but the rules are just pointing towards kind of like the Bruce Lee quote about the finger and the moon, you know, uh, you don’t look at the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory. The rules are the finger pointing towards goodness and a righteousness, whatever you want to call it, spirituality, whatever.

However, you would put that.

[00:29:57] Alex Tsakiris: . But here’s the thing, I think we’re going to return to that topic again and again, cause I think it relates back to this story that you wrote, which is excellent back about your past and about exorcism and about what that means. But I think it also relates in some important ways to your work, the book that you’re probably best known for pedagogy primer, the politics of pedophilia. You’ve done some excellent interviews on this. And the reason I went in that long, what sounds like a tangent is what we’re trying to understand here is something beyond the politics of pedophilia. So I commend you for even taking it there because, , you know, if we look at it from a psychology, , standpoint where they’ve tried to take this with the false memory syndrome, , and, and it’s not just that weird organization, that very, very dark organization that you’ve uncovered, but it’s like a Demia and, , modern psychology and psychiatry, which is behind that whole thing, which would say don’t, don’t push these people.

You just gave me a new term the other day. Minor attracted persons. They’re nap. Yeah. They’re not, , criminals who are committing sex crimes against children raping children. No, no, no. They’re minor attracted people. We’re going to put them in as, as another letter in our alphabet soup here.

My point is. Until we understand some of that spiritual stuff until we’re willing to go there because the first step we have to go is, okay, psychology is bullshit. It’s been engineered to promote a certain viewpoint. And then we look at the political, which is where you’re willing to take us.

Is this a brown stemming operations a day human compromise operation? Yes, it is. But then the third layer is, is it evil in some way that we don’t normally talk about? So I’d laid a lot out there, but tell

[00:31:57] Phillip Fairbanks: me what you think. I almost hint to that in, I guess in the first chapter where I talk about like the Cleveland street scandal, and I talked a little bit about, , you know, Louis Carroll, Charles Lee, which Dodson better known as Lewis Carroll, the author of Alice’s adventures in Wonderland.

And, uh, talk about, and Barry, the author of Peter pan, uh, which sadly, you know, for anybody who wasn’t aware, sadly, they are both most likely pedophiles. That really sucks. You know, like literally one of my favorite children’s authors is Lewis Carroll and, you know, uh, Yeah, there’s no evidence that they physically, uh, you know, sexually abused any children ever.

, though they did, you know, uh, it, it wasn’t even an odd thing at the time. And, and, you know, the weird repressed Victorian era, uh, for whatever reason, you, you know, you couldn’t show the legs on a chair, but having, you know, , an 11 year old girl nude and taking pictures of her from every angle that was okay for some reason.

but yeah, I, I believe that this is something that goes back further than the Cleveland street scandal. I do believe that, uh, You know, uh, I was talking to somebody who shared with me, uh, the hunter S Thompson, the opening to, uh, his collection of essays. Hey, Rube, where he’s talking about how old, uh, human sacrifice and child sacrifice is and how it’s, there’s always been a lot of that that goes around in autumn, in winter months, you know, and I think part of that probably goes back to the idea that especially in the, you know, the, uh, the Northern hemisphere and the Western hemisphere, you know, uh, when all the trees died, people, you know, ancient people freaked out and they were, they were scared that if they didn’t do certain things, Um, you know, the, the lights would never come back on the heat would never come back on the trees wouldn’t, uh, bear fruit anymore.

, and, you know, uh, all over the world, all these different cultures, uh, would sometimes do human sacrifice, sometimes child sacrifice. And a lot of this stuff was done in secret in these cult, you know, uh, mystery religions or cults, and a lot of, uh, the, you know, modern secret societies. , you know, the, the, the whole of like, you know, 16th to 20th and 21st century secret societies, it’s the story of a group saying, Hey, you know, the original mystery school or secret religion, that was us too, you know, and whether they’re actually connected, they always have like, you know, this, this long, uh, you know, kind of, uh, you know, uh, uh, it history of, you know, their, their pedigree or whatever, uh, And, and yeah, whether or not they’re, um, you know, just picking up elements and, and I think that in a lot of cases, uh, like a lot of people who are members of the skull and bones or whatever, um, like, yeah, I believe that it’s tied to a, you know, I guess a Luciferian philosophy, which is the same kind of thing you get in some, some of the upper, uh, degrees of Freemasonry.

Uh, but at the same time, you know, I think that a lot of the people who are members of the secret societies, aren’t what you would call true believers. And then a lot of the true believers aren’t members of X, Y, and Z secret society or Colt. Uh, but yeah, I do believe that there’s, you know, uh, some kind of, you know, dark traditions that for whatever reasons, uh, you know, I, I like the fraternity hazing rituals, you know, that’s, that’s a form of trauma based mind control, basically.

I mean, that’s literally what. Like, it’s the same kind of thing that goes on in basic training. You know, you, uh, you, you, you, uh, ha ha you abuse and break down and rebuild, and resculpt the psyche, that’s the whole purpose of basic training and the third degree of Freemasonry and, you know, uh, the fraternity hazing, all of it is along the same lines.

Uh, and, and yeah, I do believe that some of that comes from like, uh, I guess you could call it kind of like an ancient technology right down to, you know, uh, and I also think that, uh, art and literature, and a lot of times, even the John genre stuff, you know, like, uh, uh, whether it’s, you know, Kurt Von good or Philip K Dick, or, uh, you know, Lovecraft, I think a lot of times these guys , you know, I mentioned him in the book, uh, I think a lot of times these guys did kind of, Incode some things into their fiction, uh, because they couldn’t speak plainly about it.

Uh, and you know, like Lovecraft is constantly talking about all these cults and things. Uh, what a lot of people don’t realize is that. When Lovecraft was briefly married to Sonia green, she was part of the Crawley circle. She was an acolyte, you know? So when, when, when Lovecraft is talking about there’s these crazy people and they want to bring monsters through a hole in the universe, like that sounds crazy, but that’s kind of what Karoli was doing when he was going to Giza in the middle of the night in Egypt.

And like, which once again, uh, you know, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s some of these old money families who were tied to some of these secret societies who funded Sri and their field trip to Giza, you know, when, when they were doing the remote viewing stuff that they also, you know, uh, did, you know, did some kind of, I don’t know, I don’t think ritual is the type, the right type of word, even though like everything I’ve heard about like remote viewing and it’s a subject I’ve been somewhat interested in for, you know, a couple of decades now, a little over a couple of decades now, um, It’s it’s a protocol, but what’s a protocol other than a ritual of sorts, you know, a ritual when peoples, when you hear ritual, you think, you know, a cult ritual or a religious ritual, but no, I mean, like, you know, uh, I have a ritual of having a cup of coffee after I wake up in the morning.

It’s, it’s something that I always do. It’s something that gets me into a space of mine. It’s something that, that if I don’t do it, I’ll feel off, you know, so yeah, I do believe that, , you know, some of the, , the, the, the rights of elusive, for instance, the Diane I’ve seen rights, which are tied with the birth of, , you know, uh, the, the birth of drama, the, you know, like talk about PSYOPs though, the Greek festivals of, of Dionysus and elusive, where we’re grand public spectacles.

And in essence, , a form of PSYOP, I don’t know, I don’t know if PSYOPs are at word for it, because like, I think, you know, uh, what, whether that was, , would always occurred or not. I think that it was meant as a kind of a positive thing, uh, and for social cohesion and, and all this kind of thing, but at the same time, Like that, that’s what they’re doing at Bohemian Grove too.

That’s what they tell themselves to sleep at night too. So, you know, I don’t know, but yeah, I definitely believe that. Uh, like you said, there’s, there’s definitely a layer below, beyond, politics. And when you mentioned psychology, you know, uh, you, you and Cameron, for instance, you know, uh, I mentioned him in the MK ultra chapter, , , the guy that did the psychic driving experiments and, you know, the, the, the, as, as recently, as a couple of years ago, there are still, you know, they’re having to Sue the institutions now, you know, the, uh, the, the hospitals and the, uh, and, and the universities, uh, but there’s still class action lawsuits going on, uh, based on the, the victims of human Cameron who went on to become the head of the world, psychiatric association, the American psychiatric association, the Canadian psychiatric association.

, you know, you mentioned the false memory syndrome foundation, , Elizabeth Loftus, his name comes up in the Hoffman report, , which is related to, , the role that some psychologists played and potential ethical violations in Guantanamo bay. So, you know it, and I do believe that on some level, a lot of this stuff, it really is, you know, it’s like a web.

It is kind of all connected. You gotta be careful when you connect the dots though, because I think that a lot, um, you know, this is something we were talking about to, uh, in correspondence. I think, I think there’s sometimes, uh, you know, I think that there’s bad info put out there by certain actors, uh, you know, whether they’re, , witting or unwitting, , you know, useful idiots or paid this info agents or whatever.

Um, you know, I think you gotta be really careful. What you, what you spread, you know, and like, as for me, I’m a bottom feeder, , like start with, with the most far out conspiracy stuff, because that’s where I’ll find something new, , keep checking it, check it, check it against other sources, see what kind of corroboration you can get.

, but for me, yeah, I try and be like, uh, really careful because you know, like, especially when it comes to step like , institutional child abuse, organized child abuse, uh, eh, these rings like with the, whether it’s the Cleveland street or, , Franklin credit union, , and in Boystown and Omaha or Epstein, you know, it’s the same, , it’s the same rubric over and over and over.

[00:42:09] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. There’s like a million points to jump off on there. MK ultra and for people who don’t know, you’re just going to have to jump in there. Cameron, interesting. In all the ways that you said, you know, Canadian Canada’s Mengele, you know, is what they say. It just like godly a biz.

Gottlieb is our Mengele, but yep. As you’ve documented, , that, you know, the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people are more than just the what’s become the kind of cartoon Tropo. They gave them LSD at a party when they didn’t know about it, or they were so bad now, man, they were chaining kids down in beds

[00:42:52] Phillip Fairbanks: and not letting them move sensory deprivation stuff.

And you know, you’re not allowed to admit yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:42:59] Alex Tsakiris: Breaking PayPal and breaking people and

[00:43:02] Phillip Fairbanks: intentionally bring this amount of people who would become famous. , and whether it’s guys like Ken Keasy and Leonard Cohen, or whether it’s guys like Charles Manson and Ted Kaczynski, because all of them famously had close ties with, , at least, you know, some element of MK in, in the case of Charles Manson, we can’t directly tie him, but I do believe like we know that he and the family, uh, hung out in Haight-Ashbury.

We know that Dr. Morris jolly and west also had the free clinic at Haight-Ashbury. Um, you know, uh, I, I, I recently got some, uh, papers released from the library, special collections that UCLA on Dr. Jolly, by the way, uh, in one of them it’s the, the cult awareness network, um, folder, one of the cult awareness network folders that I got.

And, uh, it’s a fundraising letter and Dr. Jolly says something along the lines of, oh, I’ve worked for years with the counterculture and civil rights movement. Oh, really? Dr. Jolly let’s hear about your work with the counter-culture and civil rights. I would love to hear your work with the counterculture in the civil rights movement.

[00:44:19] Alex Tsakiris: So, I don’t think we can leave that without you telling a little bit of the story behind, , Dr. Jolly, because it’s just critical information if people don’t know it, but let’s keep it short because I also want you to, I also want you to tell the story if people don’t know it about the cult awareness network,

[00:44:38] Phillip Fairbanks: right.

That’s that was what, that was one of the coolest things about this folder, but yeah. So Dr. Jolly, uh, you know, brief thumbnail sketch, um, this is a guy that always shows. , you know, whether, uh, Jack Ruby, uh, is, is like before he dies of cancer, he starts talking about how people are giving him strange injections and he thinks they’re trying to kill him.

And then he talks to Dr. Jolly and he’s cured of those delusions,

[00:45:06] Alex Tsakiris: just like psychiatry trained and trained

[00:45:09] Phillip Fairbanks: psychiatrists at UCLA neuropsychiatrist, UCLA. Like once again, you know, he’s, , he’s got the credentials, , just like Dr. Cameron. And, and I think in a lot of these cases, they’re propped up by the CIA and, and these families that the CIA does does a lot of the bidding of, you know, it’s the, uh, the Macy’s and the Mellons and the Rockefellers, and it’s all these families and these foundations over and over and over again.

But yeah, Dr. Jolly shows up, uh, with Jack Ruby and ma bay and, uh, Charles Manson just over and over and over again. Uh, uh, also in multiple cases, uh, during the satanic panic of, uh, you know, um, Child abuse, daycare, scandals that were, uh, you know, the, the media then started calling all that stuff. , you know, a moral panic and that it was all just, ,

[00:46:00] Alex Tsakiris: so they’re going to have to go off and read the rest of yourself and listen to your stuff to find out more about jolly, but like, if you can’t, if you can’t pick up the trail now, if you’re like, no, give me more, forget it. You’re lost. You’ll never get through this stuff for real. That is a huge thing.

We’re going to talk about it. But I think what I just said fits into the cult awareness network, what’s the cult awareness.

[00:46:21] Phillip Fairbanks: Yeah. Yeah. The cult awareness network started out. It was a basically sort of a, you know, I don’t know, uh, a cross between like a think tank and a lobbyist group and also an activist group, uh, and a nonprofit charity.

Right. Uh, but it also had as member, uh, Dr. Morris Jolyon west, who also Jonesborough, you know, like when Jonesborough happened, he was called up there, like, you know, he’d, he’d been called in, uh, on multiple cases regarding calls. That was one of his specialties apparently. Um, and you know, Uh, the cult awareness network,

[00:47:04] Alex Tsakiris: when it comes to, who comes to own the Colts

[00:47:07] Phillip Fairbanks: awareness, th the folder I’ve got it likes, starts around 1992.

, so it’s like right around the takeover, the Scientologists Scientologists, they had all these, like, you know, multiple lawsuits, you know, it’s the same kind of thing that they did to the IRS, uh, where they literally had people infiltrating their offices and stealing things and, you know, pretending to be a member of the group and then saying things to make them look bad and like, oh, by the way, that’s classic CIA tactics, you know, like classic CIA,

[00:47:45] Alex Tsakiris: Just to make sure we don’t bury the lead here, Phil. The cult awareness network is somewhat of an organic, genuine organization. That is a call center. If you will, people are calling in and saying, oh my gosh, I think I’m in a cold. What should I do? And they’re giving good information out.

[00:48:00] Phillip Fairbanks: And then all of a sudden they, and it turns,

[00:48:02] Alex Tsakiris: right. It turns out a lot of people who are calling in are saying, Hey, the cult that I’m involved with are the Scientologists. So what happens is the Scientologists by the cult awareness network. They buy the phone numbers, they buy the phone bank and now the calls come in and they’re answering them that go, uh, uh, tell me about your problem.

And then it’s like, uh, you know, it’s like a Simpsons episode and then they’re routed back into the, you know, the, the machine of a thing. So, and, and as you said, this infiltrate co-op is like playbook, you know, blocking and tackling for the CIA. I didn’t know that then jolly was one of, he was probably then one of the earliest infiltrators, huh?

Uh, that was kind of

[00:48:48] Phillip Fairbanks: sending, so maybe, yeah. And I don’t know if Scientology, uh, you know, One of the few things that I agree with Scientology, uh, about L Ron Hubbard’s history. I do believe that he probably worked with Intel a bit. I believe that he had some involvement with Intel because there are too many, like, like I said, this is OSS and early CIA, fifties and sixties, uh, cold war shenanigans style, uh, shake down.

Like it just, every, every bit of it is, it sounds like it, a lot of that stuff. Wasn’t like, I, you know, I know because I read these declassified documents, they weren’t declassified in 1952 to 56 when Scientology and Dianetics are being formed and founded, you know, like they’re, they’re, they just the, uh, I don’t know if it’s parallel construction or what, but yeah, I do believe that Scientology may have started out as, uh, and, you know, not just Scientology, but, uh, Dr.

Ruth Wanger and, uh, uh, also thinks the children of God might be the CIA, the behi, uh, you know, the Iranians think that the bar higher infiltrated with, uh, with CIA, uh, you know, and the, the thing about religion, you know, and religious freedom, uh, is it’s kind of a double-edged sword there that, you know, as soon as you.

You know, I have this grievement to, well, yeah, we should allow people, their religious freedom and expression, and then Scientology comes along and it’s like, well, I’m not a religion, but I’m going to say that I am so that I get all the benefits of religion, which include, you know, stuff like secrecy and different levels and hierarchy and not questioning the people at the top of the pyramid and all this kind of stuff that is very, you know, kind of cultic.

,

[00:50:43] Alex Tsakiris: We have all these different levels that are like bracketed realities. And we have to kind of jump between one and the next, in my opinion, but take L Ron Hubbard, the only way to L to understand L Ron Hubbard, in my opinion.

And first and foremost is a, , kind of grifter kind of guy. I mean, he’s just, he’s a scammer and he’s very good at it. And he’s good at scamming people’s money and he’s moves in with Jack Parsons. And the next thing, you know, he’s fucking Jack Parsons girlfriend, and at the same time,

[00:51:15] Phillip Fairbanks: give him his money.

And Hey, would you also, now that I’ve got your girl, would you also give me your money, invest in a business, give me some boats and stuff, you know, and he’s like, sure, Ron, sure. Whatever

[00:51:29] Alex Tsakiris: you say. Yeah. And you know, so anyone who wants to reflect on that. I can say, I know people like that. I know people and both sense is whether you’re the one being victimized or whether, unfortunately you’re the one who victimizes other people, you know, people who can con people and the con doesn’t stop.

Like you’re saying with, with L Ron, you know, he done only gets the girl. Then he says, yeah, you know, this strange boat dealer, we’re going to go to Miami and buy a boat and sail it back here to California and we’ll make a lot of money and we’ll split it all. We need you to do

[00:52:02] Phillip Fairbanks: sit up all the money and give us a free boat to get the other boat with.

So that’s literally after, but this is with Marjorie, Marjorie, Cameron, his ex, like he’s already. Uh, and so it’s also the bit straight out of the like Tom Sawyer. Like I almost have to respect L Ron occasionally because he comes from that like larger than life, PT, Barnum, uh, huckster tradition. That’s so quintessentially American, you know, what’s more American than PT, Barnum.

Like, you know what, I’m going to take a bunch of rubes for their money. Uh, you know, sadly, uh, you know, it, it, it is, it was an, is an awful course of cult, but at the same time, I can’t help, but like some of these stories, it’s just so, it’s so insane that like, you know, uh, they were going to do a sex ritual out in the desert.

And I think this is how he stole his girlfriend a thing, because like initially Jack Parsons was going to have sex with his girlfriend. He’s like, wait, Jack,

[00:53:09] Alex Tsakiris: maybe I’ll have sex with your

[00:53:13] Phillip Fairbanks: girlfriend. And you could be the one who’s like watching us and saying the stuff you can be reciting stuff while I’m having sex with your girlfriend who we will later embezzle from you.

And have you start a business that we can steal you. Like, it’s crazy. Yeah. Like. I mean, you know, I don’t know. It’s, it’s just, it’s mind blowing levels of, uh, you know, it, that that’s mind control by the way, you know? Well,

[00:53:43] Alex Tsakiris: well,

[00:53:44] Phillip Fairbanks: it is mind control is like creating a perfect zombie or something like that.

There’s like you said, with different levels, there’s so many different, you know, advertising and PR are methods of mind control for that matter.

[00:53:57] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, all communication is, you know, methods of mind control all Hypnos, we’re all being hypnotized by ourselves, but we’re being hypnotized and influenced by other people.

But I don’t want to go down that tra that whole too far, because you kind of threw some other stuff on the table. You actually jumped to, , the next bracket of reality beyond that, which is the spiritual. So when he does go out and perform these rites and rituals under the direction of, , Croley right, cause curly is in communication with Jack Parsons, Jack Parsons reaches out to and acrolein says, I’m your number one guy.

I want to be your number one agent. And, and, uh, you know, uh, curly from all accounts has a little bit of that huckster in him too.

[00:54:41] Phillip Fairbanks: Yeah. And he loved Jack. Apparently I think that the, that relationship. Uh, because when he saw he’s like, no, no, no, that’s what you do to the other guy. You don’t, you don’t believe in that stuff.

You get the other guy to believe in, you take his girlfriend and his money and his boat and that’s, , that’s the trick like, and then you say abracadabra and you know, or our Rita or whatever, uh, and, and call it a day. I really do believe that like, cause you know, uh, the bureau house is a book, sex and rockets, you know, and it’s got some of the, some of the letters back and forth and it’s really kind of sad.

It’s really kind of sad and pathetic honestly, because you can see like Croley gets more and more upset and he’s like, this guy is a con artist and he’s Connie you, you know, and this is somebody who yeah. May have been the head of the manager, uh Argentum or ordo Timperley oriented. He had not embarrassed himself in front of his guru.

, you know, like that, that ruined it, that, that, that I think that like really drove a wedge between the Croley and Parson’s relationship, honestly. Cause it, you know, it, it’s gotta be kind of like disheartening to see like, you know, , like your number one pupil, and then it’s like, oh no, he’s got no common sense though.

Zero common sense. Yeah.

[00:56:13] Alex Tsakiris: Well, so, but we’re, we’re kind of dancing around this other aspect to it. Well, there’s two other aspects to it. One is the CIA kind of big game stuff. Somebody’s got to run the rule world and it ought to be us and his connections L Ron Hubbard’s connections. There are undeniable, as you said, and he kind of wraps himself in this kind of quasi, military Maisie kind of stuff, and we can get into all that.

But then the other part that I keep kind of dancing around, I can’t pin down. And you’re not saying this, but I think it’s a misstep that a lot of people take to say, oh, okay, then it’s all fake. No, that doesn’t mean that it’s fake. It doesn’t mean that they were not attempting to, or successfully connecting with spirits for lack of a better term in this extended realm that are becoming their partners in engaging in this and have some ability to influence world events and things down here, or definitely to influence

[00:57:10] Phillip Fairbanks: they’re calling the star child or moonshot child or whatever out in the desert.

And this is the same desert right around where they’re testing the atomic bomb, you know? Uh, and it’s also the same little spot of land where over the next like five years, the majority of the, uh, you know, UFO sightings would be right in this same.

[00:57:33] Alex Tsakiris: Let’s not go there.

Cause I don’t think you’ve got the UFO thing. . Right. I don’t think you’ve, you’ve put all the pieces on the, on the table. I mean, if we want to jump there now we can, but I kind of think we got to finish the Stargate thing because what happens here. Super interesting.

And, uh, gosh, like the reason I bring up immediately Stargate, just so people understand this, you know, all this stuff backwards and forwards. I’m not telling you, but L Ron Hubbard has start Scientology. So he, whatever blended is of this kind of satanic spiritual occultic real connection with these extended realms and also his kind of pragmatic hucksterism goal, American hucksterism, how can I rip everyone off?

He starts Scientology and lo and behold, because there is this military connection, as you described, military intelligence is, Hey, whatever works, you know what I mean? You want to call it Satan. You want to not lie. We don’t care. We just want to conquer that hill. And to a certain extent, that has to always be the job of.

The military and in a way that we don’t understand, because you’re not inside that culture, but what they’ll tell you is, Hey, we’ve been through this for thousands of years, and I’ll tell you at the end of the day, Phil, when it’s me defending you, you don’t give a fuck. Whether I think I am, whether I have Satan tattooed on my back or not.

You just want me to keep those motherfuckers from coming through your front door. And I know that, and I’ve lived that over and over again. So don’t tell me how all moralistic and Christian you are. Cause I know at the end of the day, it’s about protection and it’s about keeping the bad guys from coming over that hill military has that ingrained in them at a kind of coral level that we don’t get.

Cause we haven’t been in the military, but military intelligence then takes that and extends that and says, oh, okay. That means I can do whatever I want. Because at the end of the day I have the ultimate Trump card. So L Ron Hubbard is connected with that. And that L Ron Hubbard gets connected with this Sri remote viewing project in, in, uh, at Stanford, Stanford, you know, great university.

And these two laser physicists who the laser part of is kind of interesting, probably has an ITI connection there. Laced all these guys, not all of them, but a lot of these guys that are doing Sri are in

[01:00:02] Phillip Fairbanks: the three guys. Yeah. Uh, you know, pat price, Ingo, Swann, uh, I’m blanking on the third name, but like the top three got the top three guys.

And in fact, uh, after pat died, I guess I believe he was just like the, the two guys were the core of like they were, they were running the lab at Sri. The crazy thing about, well, hell

[01:00:26] Alex Tsakiris: put off hell put off

[01:00:27] Phillip Fairbanks: is, uh, put off, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, the crazy part about this, this is around like, okay. 1978, the, , Fort Meade, Maryland in the defense, , intelligence agency picks up Stargate as like a military project.

, and this is around the same time that, , operation snow white is going on where Scientologists have infiltrated, uh, the IRS and law firms and like all these various, you know, levels of government. , and they’re leaking documents, you know, , apparently, , I think it was, John attack who wrote that, uh, the, the reason why they were leaking the documents was mainly just to cover their.

Because if they just stole Scientology documents and it would be easy to figure out who’s still who’s stealing the IRS documents about Scientology’s tax debt. You know, the Scientology is no, but if you steal like, you know, all this interesting stuff and link some of it to the press and, you know, meanwhile, you’re also like in, in the senator’s office, there you’re a janitor cleaning up at the IRS at, and like literally there were, it was the largest domestic spying operation in the United States that we know of.

And around the same time as that’s going on. Scientologists are running the CIA CIA lab at Sri,

[01:01:56] Alex Tsakiris: I don’t think that’s like, like you said, and this is like a whole point we could get off on, about being careful about connecting the dots because there’s a lot of different ways to connect the dots.

And sometimes they come up with different images once you connect them. And moreover, the connecting the dots involves people and people are complicated. So here’s a guy I recently interviewed and really enjoyed talking with them. Nick cook. So Nick cook just wrote a biography about Ingo Swann and he met Ingo Swann on several occasions.

And he also has close connection with the family. Well, if you look at Ingo Swann and who he is, , it puts a different spin on this whole story. Ingo Swann is psychic. He’s psychic is hell. He’s like one of the greatest psychics in the United States. And he’s going on TV. Unlike the old TV, uh, reality shows game shows like what’s my line and they can read people’s mind.

And this is who he is and who he does. And, and he’s also an artist he’s incredible artist and he lives in New York city. He is recruited by Sri because of his psychic abilities. And sometimes people get this wrong and they think, well, what is remote viewing? And they’re using Weegee boards and I heard you on opera, man.

I love ed Opperman, but he’s a tent revival. Christian kind of that’s his, his, his locked into that worldview and it Weegee boards and Weegee portlet, Weegee board, which board suggests that there’s some ability to connect with this extended realm in some way, we’ll start nailing down. What that means, what that extended realm is, who is in that extended room?

How are they interacting? Just don’t paint it with this Sunday, school Christianity. Oh, there’s state. And then there’s Jesus into new. Jesus loves me all. You just got to start with Terraform or you got to go all the way down and get to the ground. And we don’t know what that is. Back to Ingo Swann.

Ingo Swann is psychic. . I don’t know why some people are psychic, but some people are just gifted in that way. They can read minds, they can remote view things. They don’t call it remote viewing, but they can see things that aren’t in their immediate view. The CIA backed what we’re saying, be the being the CIA says need to talk to that guy.

So they bring Ingo, Swann out and they say, here’s what we want to do. The Russians got the submarine base over there. Do you think you could like see that submarine base from here in Palo Alto nigga says, well, let me give it a try. And they go, well wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. You think you might be able to do it?

I’ll tell you what, before you give it a try right down the road here, we got this super secret Livermore labs. That super secret thing buried. We’re not going to tell you what it is, but it’s buried in six feet of cement. And inside that six feet of cement is a fair day cage and inside there for a decade, just something else.

And no one can do it. And can you get in there? Can you see it? Can you an Ingo Swann says, yeah, I can see it. As a matter of fact, I can see it and I can stop it. I can stop your little clock in there and he does it and they’re super excited, but they’re fucking freaked out as well. ’cause now we’re talking about this extended realm and this extended realm is outside of our space and time.

And it kind of blows the water out of all the crap that we do about building all that stuff. So that’s who Ingo Swann is. And now they say, oh, okay. Now back to that Russian submarine thing, I’ll tell you, what do you think you could train other people to do what you do? And he says, yeah, I could. I mean, everybody has a little bit of this gift and here’s how to do it.

And he develops a training class, a protocol, and that’s what becomes remote viewing. So to read that story differently, I mean, I’m open to, that’s my interpretation of the story, of course. But if you’re going to change that story, tell me the, the, the factual pieces that changed that story. That’s what I love about your work.

I mean, you have the factual pieces there in your laying down the story, and I’m going to add one other part to that in this kind of sharing that we’re doing here. The other super interesting guy in that to me is, and I I’ve told this story before on the show, so it might get boring to some people, but is, uh, Joe McMonagle and, and you’ve heard of genomic Monaco, psychic spy number 0 0 1.

But what a lot of people don’t know about Joe McMonagle is. The reason he comes to Sri is because he has a near death experience. And the reason he has a near-death experience is because he’s a fucking spot. He’s on our side, he’s working on the border of east Germany and west Germany. And as he tells a story on my show, I interviewed him.

He’s in a restaurant that is kind of a known hangout for spies. It’s just like right out of a movie or something, but this is how he tells it. He’s having lunch, dinner, whatever. And he starts grabbing his fro, just like in a movie he’s being poisoned. He immediately tries to leave, leave the restaurant. He staggers and falls a cup of his intelligence buddies come and grab him.

And they put him in a Jeep at this point, mid monocle thighs. If you don’t know about near-death experience science, you might go, well, he didn’t not die because he came back. No, he died. That’s what we call it. That’s what medicine calls it. But after your heart stops beating for a couple of minutes and there’s no blood to your brain, we call that death.

And we might hypothesize about how that’s not really death. But then that raises a bunch of questions about what is this extended realm in our realm that is death. That’s what we’ve always called it to be death. Joe. Now, though, back to our story is outside of his body. Looking down at the Jeep, as it drives frantically through the east German west German border, trying to find a hospital and they call ahead and they get an ambulance and they transfer him to an ambulance and he gets in the hospital and they’re able to say, Joe McMonagle wakes from his.

And he has, I should say, not only this ability to see outside of his body, but he has a near death experience. He goes in encounters, the divine encounters, the greater consciousness that doesn’t care about this game and all this nonsense. He’s relieved from all that. And isn’t in the infinite love realm that so many near death experiencers talk about.

He meets God for lack of a better term, but when he awakens back in this room, the first thing he sees are two military intelligence officers said, Hey buddy, what’s going on in it right in his face. They want to quote unquote, debrief him on what happened, both his poisoning and everything else. And he tells him, he tells him about being outside of his body and he tells them all the rest of that stuff.

And then he goes on with his military career until he’s shows up at Sri. Cause he’s ordered to go and check these guys out. And lo and behold, I don’t know if it’s Russell targ or hell put off, but they unseal his secret sealed military file and they pull out a book and the book is Raymond Moody’s. A near-death experience.

And the important thing to me there, and this is like classic Phil Fairbank’s putting together the pieces. They knew that there was something about near-death experience about being in that extended realm that also connected with the crazy stuff they were doing with remote viewing an Ingo Swann and outside of space time.

And how do we see Russian subs from Palo Alto? They didn’t know exactly how it all worked, but they did know at some and some level that this extended consciousness realm of near-death experience was somehow related to that. So long story, but that is my Terrafirma on a Stargate and remote viewing. It is all the other things that you say like you are, I don’t think you are incorrect at all.

And like these guys say, here’s another interesting tie back to your work. And again, folks, when we’re talking to Phil Fairbank’s, we’re talking to a guy who wrote the story was in a paranoia magazine.

[01:10:52] Phillip Fairbanks: Yeah. And K ultra. 2003 or 2004 ish. Yeah,

[01:10:59] Alex Tsakiris: 1,003. Think about that. That’s almost 20 years ago. He’s descoping the, the muck and laying out the dirt on MK ultra.

Unbelievable. I mean, that is a foundational kind of investigative research that, you know, he’s never going to get any credit for it. Cause that’s the,

[01:11:21] Phillip Fairbanks: yeah. Nobody wants to, nobody wants to know. Yeah. Uh, you know, you know, th there’s a lot of ties between the Stargate and MK ultra is, well, not least of which being , but also Frank isn’t exactly Frank Olson.

uh, uh, Gottlieb all like right here in the Venn diagram, the, the, the events that led to Frank Olson, who once again, you know, they dosed them with acid and then they push them out of a 13th, uh, story window, , after knocking on the back of the head, because it wasn’t until like, you know, his body’s exhumed and they finally do a real autopsy where it’s discovered that no, he, he was dead before he hit the ground.

He, you know, he got bashed on the back of the head was thrown out of a window because when you fall out of a window and you committed suicide, then they’re not going to check to make sure now. Is the reason why his head is shattered, that he jumped out a window or was he bashed on the back of the head first?

Uh, but yeah, there’s like a lot of ties between, uh, the Sri and MKL tra and and Gottlieb and Olson and all this kind of stuff. Like a lot of this stuff, it ties back and forth. And, and I think part of that, you know, I, I keep going back to, you know, it’s, it’s these foundations, uh, run by old money families who, you know, uh, I, I like to point out that like the CIA, uh, the CIA is, is, you know, grew out of the OSS, which was basically a bunch of skull and bones, men who once again, old money types, Prescott Bush, for instance, and, uh, Billy Russell and a lot of these folks, um, they were already rich and then they doubled their wealth in the opium wars.

You know, so this, this is, this is like these, these old money families who, uh, were involved in the opium wars and then were selling heroin through the Emerald triangle, uh, in Indochina and Vietnam and then Afghanistan. And, you know, so that’s like that, that’s another part of the story that I think, uh, you know, uh, eventually, eventually, like I said, uh, The the, the foundations and, uh, uh, I guess you’d call them oligarch families or whatever

[01:13:53] Alex Tsakiris: I hear you.

And sometimes I think that’s true, but sometimes I read those biographies and it sounds just like when we broke down L Ron Hubbard and you go, no, I know that guy. He’s just, he’s just a huckster. And when you read about a Bush old man Bush, , I understand Prescott Bush. He is not an insider. He is not an elite. He doesn’t have the money. What he sees is a way to get in with this. Good. These guys who do have the money and maybe that’ll get me the money and maybe I can make my kids rich, which he does and all the rest of that stuff.

But yeah, I look at Prescott Bush and I understand Prescott Bush. He’s just trying to, he’s trying to make it, like you said, he’s old-fashioned American, even though he has other, , and then the other thing I always do, , , and these discussions that, uh, kind of shift things a little bit, just like that last one did is you got to look at the reincarnation research science, you know, and again, I got to university of Virginia and, you know, you look at what those guys did and all the research they compiled and are still compiling.

And Jim Tucker is still compiling it. And there’s new stuff that they’re discovering all the time. It totally throws this for a loop. , , the bottom line for me is that people who are messing with the spiritual realm. For the most part don’t know what the fuck they’re doing.

You know, not that anyone can cause the spirits like to fuck with people. That’s the only thing we can. That’s the only thing we can surmise from all this is the spirits like to fuck with people. And when you get God is different, like the near death experience accounts. There’s there’s no go, go read them.

You can read thousands of them. You can search through the near-death exp near death research foundation, Jeff long’s website, where he has thousands of them chronicled, New York times bestselling author, and a doctor physician, all these carefully compiled surveys. There is no Bullock. There is no, uh, satanic, none of that.

When these people encounter God encounter the light walk into that thirst, none of that nonsense. It’s like, if you want to create that gain down here, well, there’s apparently on some lower spiritual level. There’s these entities that’ll kind of jump right in there and create that game with you. But on some other level, it’s not real in some sense.

And again, I’m not saying I have any of that figured out to any extent, but I kinda can call bullshit on some of this stuff. And the one thing I’d call bullshit on is this bloodline thing. You can think your bloodlines are super important. And, uh, reincarnation research will tell you, they don’t mean shit.

You don’t know where you’re going to come back and who you’re going to be. And somebody can groom you. Like your parents can groom you into believing that all this stuff is true, but that don’t make it true. So I, I guess I, I kinda got off on a bit of a tangent there, but that’s my read of these, uh, these families and oligarchy.

That’s all bull.

[01:16:53] Phillip Fairbanks: Regardless of weather, you know, like, you know, they say you can’t take it with you. If that goes for, , your consciousness and, , your lineage or whatever, , then so be it. But I still, I don’t know for whatever reason, even, even if it’s not so much, uh, even if it’s more about, you know, perpetuating, uh, the, uh, their thing, you know, that thing that, they’re a part of, uh, which, which, you know, for, for whatever reason, you know, it makes no sense to me why, like, royalty, you know, like literally it’s, uh, when you think about it, like, you know, it’s, it’s like, you know, okay.

Let’s, let’s find the most inbred people in Europe, and we’ll just put them in charge of everything. Cause like, honestly, like it’s royalty the reason why the Royals tend to have hemophilia. And polydactyly why is that? They only marry their cousins. You know, that, I dunno, it makes no sense to me at all. Uh, but I believe some reason for it, uh, you know,

[01:18:05] Alex Tsakiris: like, oh, the reason for it is that they believe it to be true, you know, so, and this was why I kind of hammered so hard on the Christian thing.

It’s like , there’s millions of people, hundreds and hundreds of generations who have found. Inspiration from the life of Jesus. Well, does it matter that that life isn’t historically accurate in some respects it does. And in some other respects, it doesn’t because our connection to this spiritual realm is misunderstood by us because it has to be, we are not in the position.

We are the dog, you know, like I got a dog is at the window. She wants to go for her walk. She, she is incredibly empathetic on a number of levels and it probably can process information, you know, can smell things and all this, but on another cognitive level, she just can not process things the same way that I can.

This is what people tell us about being in the extended realm all the time. They say I knew the answers to everything. And then when I came back here, I didn’t have them anymore. So does it surprise me that people can follow some really being influenced into following some really sick, stupid. Thing of there’s this bloodline and we all have to have this family and stuff like that.

Cause Jeannie illogically right. Sometimes we have these Royals in this bloodline and then you find out there’s a little thing going on in the back. And that guy, that kid wasn’t exactly, you know, this and that. Well, Hey, he was up until a minute ago. He was a part of the bloodline and the whole thing, it’s it, to me, it fits much more into that kind of scenario of a human created a human, no idea than it does this, the deep reality of Royals or bloodlines or any of the rest of the human invention, I think.

[01:19:59] Phillip Fairbanks: Oh yeah. Yeah. Uh, it, you know, I, I would agree with you there. Uh, but, but at the same time, I think that there’s some part of humanity that apparently kind of craves it because otherwise, why would, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things, um, you know, like, , the transpersonal, it’s a transpersonal experiences, I guess, uh, Charles part would put it, , cause it’s , like the idea of there’s a, you know, there’s certain things that show up in, in every culture and like, you know, uh, th that the, uh, the, these basic artists.

That, you know, they’re going to be color shaded and colored a little bit differently based on, , the individual and the society and the culture that, uh, that the individuals brought up in. But apart from that, there are certain things. , and apparently having, you know, one family that keeps ruling everything.

That’s, that’s something that shows up like, you know, just going back thousands of years ago, when the people over here and the people over there never could have, you know, never could have met. They weren’t able to compare notes, but, , this kind of, , tribalism and fiefdoms and, and king ships.

, , and by the way, I’m not saying that that’s as it should be, or, or that we shouldn’t struggle against that. I think that a lot of what maybe is inherent in human nature is not necessarily a good thing. Like if, if all of human nature was inherently good, then we wouldn’t have the world that we live in, you know, with, with, uh, like extreme injustice and inequality and all this kind of stuff.

But then on the other, uh, on the other hand, like I think that there’s like some part of it. Like I, you know, uh, I think that there’s, there’s some kind of an explanation for it, but once again, I think it’s, you know, probably archetypical and metaphorical for the most part. That’s, that’s one of the reasons why, you know, whether it’s religion, mythology, folklore, or whatever, you know, I think that there’s some things that you can’t speak plainly about and that’s where poetry and art and religion, , You know, , they sometimes fare better , than a simple equation,

[01:22:25] Alex Tsakiris: why do you keep throwing religion in there? Why isn’t religion better understood as a mind control, social engineering project, same way that you said that the intelligence organizations, it doesn’t take long to build the playbook. You start finding certain things that work trauma works.

You know, group love group community. There are need to be a pack. You know, these things work. Why, why doesn’t that just explain religion in a way, cause I’m with you on poetry and art and transcendent experiences that we have. , the can do that. And I believe that you can attach a transcendent experience to religion.

But to me, the idea that I’m going to put together a book and become your spiritual intermediary and tell you that you cannot understand your experiences, unless you come through me. That just sounds like good old fashion, you know, hokum to me, my and beyond hokum, it sounds like in coercion and ability to control people in order to gain an advantage.

[01:23:28] Phillip Fairbanks: I can see why you would think that and, I completely get why some people are turned off of, uh, religion and especially, uh, especially like for instance, Christianity and, and I certainly wouldn’t, uh, try and pretend that a mass of evils hadn’t been done in the name of Christianity.

In fact, the majority, maybe even of what’s been done in the name of organized religion. Most of it’s not good stuff. Like, I, I I’ll go ahead and can see that right there, but like, you know, it’s whether you want to call it religion or whatever, but , when, , cavemen first, like banned some kind of mushroom

and then all of a sudden felt like, putting some Berry juice on some walls and next thing you know, , there’s art there. And, uh, I believe that art and communication and language, I believe that they were all kind of tied together. , and like the word religion itself, you know, Ray to bind back together again.

I think , that’s what religion should be. Um, Then again, like I said, as far as org organized religion yeah. In, in most cases, organized religion, subverts that natural desire for, you know, like you said, transcendence and connection with the divine or internal or, or, or some higher level, which, you know, even Kurt girdle show showed us that even math is incomplete.

You know, even our number system, like there, there are some inconsistencies and then you have to go to a higher level and then that one’s going to have in consistencies. And it’s just, you know, infinite regression from.

[01:25:08] Alex Tsakiris: I know I’m kind of hammering on the religion thing, but I can’t, I can’t let go without this story.

So I’m entering this guy, Juergen, Ziva, unbelievably. Fantastic. I love this guy. , one of the most gifted, out of body experienced travelers, if you will, he’s written this book, multidimensional man, and he’s just has this ability to leave his body and enter into these extended realms in a very, very amazing way that he can bring back this information.

Anyways, he’s telling me this story about his trip to Greece. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen , this monastery in Greece. That’s built on this little island and it’s this tiny little island. And they built this huge fortress because you know, this carrying the light of God is not easy. And there’s people who are going to attack you.

So you got to have a fortress than the monastery and you walk up. If you ever see a picture of it, you have to walk up this trail of miles up and up and up and up the mountain. And he does that and he gets there and there’s all these Greek Orthodox, which was, I was raised Greek Orthodox. And there’s all these people there who are trying to have some kind of experience, some kind of connection, but they’re not allowed in the monastery.

You know, you can only go like to the gift shop kind of thing. Lo and behold, one of the priests leans over and sees Juergen. Come on in, come on in, come on in, gives him this special kind of treatment. There’s something going on here. Right? So he brings him into this room and first they connect and they talk and they’re just like, they like each other and they talk and they have this thing.

And then he says, Hey, I want to show you something. And the priest brings him into the room and the room is black dark. And suddenly it goes over any here’s a little creaking metal thing, and he’s lowering this candle chandelier. And as the chandelier comes down, the candle light reaches in. It shows this icon of, I forget who it was.

Some Saint Virgin Marietta. Juergen says it was an unbelievable ecstatic experience. Tears were dripping down my face. I felt in my heart, the love of God just burst me. And I was like shaken to my knees and the guy creak, creak, creak, creak, creak pulls the chandelier up and it’s dark again.

And he goes, oh my God, that was such an incredible experience, you know, dadadada. So he comes back the next day. Juergen does. He wants to see this guy. He wants to kind of rehab that experience and just kind of understand it at a deeper level. And , he says, Hey, you know, I want to go see father Philip or whatever the guy’s name is.

And he goes, oh, what are you talking about? No, no, no, you can’t get in here. And then suddenly father Philip comes in and goes, oh no, that’s my buddy. And he lets him in. He goes, you know, I was thinking about that experience. I want to know. And he goes, okay, I’ll take you to another room. So he takes him to another room, same thing, completely dark lowers the candles.

Again, he has this astatic experience, this connection with Christ consciousness, this connection with the love of God. It is complete. It is all consuming outside of space and time. But the question that I asked Juergen is, so are you a Christian. We’ve got a chuckles he’s Austrian German. He goes, well, we’ll know, I’m not a Christian.

And his answer is kind of like I’ve had these experiences, you know, a good part of my life. And it’s incredible that I had them from this icon and this icon was able to initiate that inside of me. But I don’t understand that to mean that I should follow all the other stuff that they believe there’s a direct spirit out there.

That is God, that way, way paraphrasing for Juergen. But you get the point and that’s, I guess where I come down on religion, religion, isn’t unnecessary. Intermediary between you and your relationship with God, but to attach it to the icon is it might be useful because the icon might help you have that transpersonal experience.

But back to what you’re saying about Buddha pointing to the moon, it’s, it’s just a finger point. The

[01:29:45] Phillip Fairbanks: Bible. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Even read words caught up on the, well, even the red words

[01:29:52] Alex Tsakiris: and the red words, aren’t the red words. They’re just your red words. They’re just your interpretation of, they’re not the red words.

They’re just red words in a book.

[01:30:04] Phillip Fairbanks: , as for me, I guess, , as for like the red words, no, I, I mean more so like, you know, just the, the pared down message, love tolerance, forgiveness, , you know, which once again, like I said, you know, the, everything else, you know, distill it down to the essentials.

, I think that’s, you know, that’s, , like everybody, uh, everybody’s clamoring for a revolution. I hope they realize that until people have a revolution within themselves, then it’s not going to change that. Because the way, the, the way the world is, and the reason why it’s the way it is, is because of the way people are.

Cause, you know, , we’ve been, you know, creating culture for thousands of years. And so now we’re born into this world with thousands of years of, of cultures and culture clashes. , basically the idea though, of, of love and forgiveness and what, you know, I, I definitely believe that’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s key to just living a good life until, until you, you know, change yourself from within and, uh, can be more, , loving and kind and, you know, uh, then, then all the other things, all the other work, it’s not going to be as, uh, uh, productive as it could be or should be maybe.

[01:31:30] Alex Tsakiris: Okay, I’m going to pull you in a different direction. I know I’m raking you over the coals here, but that’s what we do on skeptical. The ITI thing. Why aren’t you down with the ITI thing? Let me play a little clip from, I think a really great movie, not a perfect movie, but a great movie, the phenomenon. , and then we’ll talk about it.

[01:31:51] Clip: Cases that are not explainable in conventional terms that had been made by credible observers of relatively incredible things

got right up to it lit up. It was just a warning. It’s just an attempt to communicate.

I was

it was not anything from this earth.

He was looking at all of us.

[01:32:23] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. I might stop there where my starting point, I guess, especially lately for people who are not ETE UFO friendly or not, , on board is the nukes. Because the nukes kind of cut through all the bullshit, all the consciousness bullshit and get right down to nuts and bolts. So the UFO’s fly over the nukes and Malmstrom air force base.

And they guys report, Hey, there’s, UFO’s up here. What do we do? So this is in the record, like this is the military has records of this, and this has come out because these guys have disclosed it. And then they said, well, gosh, I don’t know. And then the UFO’s fly over each one of the silos.

They shoot down a red beam and they disable the nukes one by one and each one of these by our best technology, our best computers of the 1960s, seventies, whatever they are, these things are completely independent. That’s the idea. You wouldn’t want one new going out? Oh gosh, go plug it back in. They’re all out.

It’s like, no, this is impossible to do. So there is an intelligence that flies around in these nuts and bolts crafts and shoots down this beam. And this intelligence has the ability to understand our most advanced technology in disable it now in Russia, in the Ukraine, after the wall falls, we goes in there and they go, oh, you know what, same thing happened to us, but they turned them off.

The nukes flew over our silos. And one by one, they turned them on and we were panicking. We were like, these things are going to go off and the world is going to end cause we’re going to be destroyed. And then the UFO’s shut them down one by one. So when people are not, like I say, UFO friendly and ITI friendly, because some people strangely enough will acknowledge UFO’s but will not acknowledge ITI it, I don’t know here we have the Intel, so we have the nuts and bolts here.

We have intelligence, we have technology and we have some kind of message, which gets us into the goodie tea, batty tea thing. So,

[01:34:35] Phillip Fairbanks: um, I’m not certain, I kinda like once again, the, the idea that, , a lot of these things that we’re hearing about all through history, , you know, talks about flying saucers.

You know, there’s a, there’s a whirling, , fires in the sky and, you know, I think that since we’re in a post-industrial society, that’s why we’re seeing them as Hailey. And in flying saucers

[01:35:05] Alex Tsakiris: hold on. Gotta jump in there. It doesn’t wash in the sense that if we are going to have this discussion, if we are in this consensus reality, speaking around the world, you’re in the Philippines, I’m in Southern California.

We’re talking through zoom with all this stuff works. If we’re going to accept that, that is the consensus reality, because there can be all sorts of different realities. As we’re saying, there can be this extended consciousness reality. There can be this simulation that we’re in. There can be all this other shit.

But for right now, we’re talking about the nuts and bolts reality of us communicating in zoom. That is the same reality that they experienced at the nuclear air force base. And that they had these rockets that if they shoot them off, they do go when they do blow up shit and they would destroy incinerate millions of people and they turned them on and turned them off.

So I think we just have to put a Zeke Yule to the side for a minute and say, this is what happened here. This is our nuts and bolts reality. And then we have to try and make sense of that inside of this reality, before we start jumping off into some other kind of,

[01:36:18] Phillip Fairbanks: well, what I’m saying though, what we’re experienced as, you know, , there was the, do author did Denine in, in the, the, the Celtic idea or the, uh, on a Knocky for the Sumerians, but there’s, you know, this idea that once again, it’s, uh, it’s people who never met each other, had an idea of, you know, there were these, these, uh, brilliantly talented, uh, people, or the idea of, uh, you know, the, the Nuffield of those who came from above, you know, , the, the word Elohim is plural, by the way, meaning they who come from above.

I think that there’s a possibility that, , there can be different, , different explanations for different, uh, phenomenon and experiences, but, uh, I think there’s also a possibility that, you know, whatever it was that the Gypson saw, uh, and, and, and the Mayan saw, you know, like they’re, they’re, you know, there are some, uh, you know, weird stories of, you know, uh, I guess you could call them, uh, gods or, or demiurges or angels or demons, or you could call them, uh, you know, hyper dimensional beings or, or whatever.

Uh, but yeah, I think that there’s like, even if, and, uh, here’s where we might disagree again, even if, reality is just what we believe, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, , but even so even if there are no, , angels and demons, there are because they exist in our dreams, they are because they exist.

Like, that’s why they’re in, , our mythology. , I think he was Ernst casserole CA uh, cast or the, dreams or , private myths and mythology or public dreams. Like that’s kind of the way I see it. As far as like, , the consensus trance and consensual reality or whatever.

Yeah. I think, I think that, uh, You know, there’s a firm scientific basis for the idea that things are not as they appear just, just that, that alone. I think, I think that can be taken to be, you know, uh, as a fundamental things are not necessarily as they, they appear, uh, you know, for instance, just right down to the fact that like, you know, the things that appear solid to me are actually vibrating on, on, on some level, you know, everything’s vibrating on some level, uh, regardless how it, it, it appears on the level, you know, however, uh, I have to process it, uh, in order to, uh, you know, uh, like, uh, what was it, the, uh, uh, at corresponded with Dr.

Charles tart for a little while, uh, I liked his description of ego as a reality coping mechanism. The idea of, I, for instance, the, this is my reality coping mechanism, my personality, uh, the, the, the ego, the, the is th this is just, this is just how I deal with the fact that, you know, like, I’m, I, I’m not the same body that I was 10 years ago.

I’m not the same mind that I was, uh, five minutes ago, you know, it’s, you know, uh, uh, so yeah, like I honestly don’t, I don’t know how important it is. To know, uh, whether, whether, uh, you know, something is, uh, just an archetypal metaphor and that’s why it’s in everybody’s, uh, mythology and dreams and, you know, uh, shows up in art and literature over and over again.

Like it’s there, you know, I, I don’t even know, you know, I mean, I see the value and if there, if there was a way to get a crowbar and pull them apart, but as it is, like, if, if you can, like, I think maybe part of the mystery is part of the fun, you know, like, uh, uh, it’s kinda like the idea of, you know, of course we can understand, you know, the mind of God is the, you can understand how could you fathom that of the whatever created you.

That’s like the idea of, uh, you know, I’ve heard it said that if, uh, you know, our brains are far too complex for us to fully understand, uh, and if they were simple enough for us to figure out we would be too dumb at that point, you know? So it’s, it’s like, that’s, that’s how I see that whole, you know, it’s, it’s kind of like a, like a riddle or a Cohen or whatever, but like, like for me, I, you know, I don’t know.

I don’t know if it’s, uh, entirely important to know, you know, Uh, when it, when it comes to, uh, to some matters anyways, I can see where, uh, for other people, uh, it would be a, of a much greater value. And, and like I said, if there was an answer, there is, you know, uh, you know, a definitive answer, but that’s the whole thing, you know, uh, sometimes, uh, it like, that’s, that’s one of the key, I think, traps of science to really, you know, like you can like, just think of a molecule, for instance, you know, like you can write down what a molecule looks like, but molecules are 3d.

So that’s not what a molecule looks like, you know? And also like you’ve got this molecule and it’s like in this arms going out here, but you can also bend it this way. And it’s the same molecule, but you know, if it’s right armed or left arm, it changes the way, like it affects everything. So I think like, you know, that’s, that’s one of the, uh, traps of science is that if you try to like quantify everything, then you’re missing something you’re gonna miss something.

You know, like, I, I, I wouldn’t presume to understand like, you know, uh, quantum science or anything, but I know enough about like Everett Wheeler and the, uh, you know, the multiple worlds hypothesis and, uh, uh, you know, things definitely aren’t as they appear, reality is not as it appears and. Uh, you know, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that so many, uh, you know, like, is it a coincidence that so many conscious, uh, consciousness researchers, uh, and, and, uh, physicists and quantum mechanics end up like becoming mystics?

I don’t think it is. I think, you know, uh, once you realize, uh, wait, everything’s buzzing, everything’s vibrating. I just can’t see it because I would go crazy if I saw and heard everything, you know? Uh, so yeah, for me, like, I don’t know, as far as the alien and the U I, I definitely, I definitely, uh, think that there may be a connection between the, uh, UFO’s UAP, I guess, is the new politically correct term.

Uh, uh, and, and ETS, I don’t know, there, there may be, but, uh, I’m also, uh, like as, as, as far as I know, you know, like, uh, maybe they just exist on, on some mental level, but once again, like that’s not, that’s not any less real to me. Like, if, if you don’t have any matter, if you’re, if you’re just like, uh, an idea form, you know, um, Like that’s, that’s like the idea of, uh, like, you know, a TOPA in Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism, like, you know, when, when you create an idea and that’s basically what a mean is though to, you know, for that matter, like, you know, means, uh, th that’s like in the doc and since anyways, like, you know, culture’s made up of memes and tropes and these, uh, you know, images and glyphs and, and so yeah, whether or not like they’re extra terrestrial or hyper dimensional or just constructs in archetypes, like they, I don’t think like one has more or less power necessarily.

Like, you know, E if they’re, uh, this corporate or, or corporate, I don’t know. I don’t know. I, uh, I, I don’t even know, like, for me, it’s, it’s, it’s not like a huge deal, but I think part of that is because like, uh, I don’t know. I, I don’t, I don’t think, uh, I don’t think all the mysteries are going to be unraveled in this life necessarily, per se.

[01:45:13] Alex Tsakiris: Phil. I love what you just said about tart and the reality coping mechanism that you bring. Cause part of what we’re doing. And part of what kind of drew me to your work is there’s something about truth and the systematic pursuit of truth.

The unflinching pursuit of truth that I think does bolster our spirits a little bit. It allows us to sort through what’s real and what’s not. So

[01:45:41] Phillip Fairbanks: I, the search alone, it’s like the pursuit of happiness. Like that’s where the happiness is that the happiness is in the pursuit of it. You know what happens if you catch happiness?

Well, I don’t know. You better let it go else. What do you have to pursue now?

[01:45:58] Alex Tsakiris: So what, what are you pursuing now? , what what’s going on in, in your world and what’s coming up for you.

[01:46:05] Phillip Fairbanks: I, you know, um, uh, I haven’t, I haven’t announced what the next, uh, uh, project that I’m currently working on is I’m still waiting for the second book, uh, edits to be finished.

And, you know, speaking of edits, I wasn’t able to get the, uh, pedo gay primer was not professionally edited. I had to proofread that myself and there are some, uh, uh, some grammar and typo issues that I’m hopefully gonna get fixed soon. Uh, but yeah, by next year, I hope to have, uh, uh, at least two, uh, full link books should be coming out.

Uh, the, the one that you mentioned, the deep state, uh, penetrating the veils of the unelected shadow government, uh, and in another project that I’ve been working on for a little over a year now, I’m going to be real coy, uh, and, and not give anything away while also get, I gave you, I’ll give you a big hand, but at the same time, it gives nothing away.

It has to do with Dr. Morris west, which really narrows it down. So it could be that Jonestown or JFK or McVay or Scientology or Charles Manson, or, you know, who knows Mim K ultra or whatever. But if it’s going to have something to do with, uh, uh, with, uh, Dr. Uh, Dr. West, uh, like I said, I’ve, I’ve gotten some of his papers from the library, special collection there, luckily able to like digitize it and send it to me.

I had to wait like a few weeks or whatever, cause they give, you know, UCLA staff and students obviously get first dibs. And if you’re not, then you just have to wait a few weeks or a month and a half or whatever. And then they sit in another month, which is like two or three weeks from now. I should be able to, uh, request them or, and then I’ll be able to wait three or four more weeks, but now I’m going to be stacking Morris west documents over the next, uh, few months.

That’s, uh, that’s definitely a big part of it. I’ve got a, uh, so some interviews like. Th the first book, you know, the first book in the, uh, the, the second one, the, the deep state book, both of them are very similar. And then they take a very like, uh, wide approach. You know, it’s just a survey it’s like, uh, just show it, all these different things.

And like, you know, they’re all kind of somewhat connected to kind of give you this wide angle view of things. Uh, but on the project that I’m working on right now that I’m doing the research and note taking and interviewing, uh, process of now, um, this is going to be a deep dive, like, uh, which, you know, I think both are equally important just depending, you know, depending on, uh, cause once again, depending on, on the angle that you look at something from, you know, uh, the, the, the observer and the observed it’s, it’s, you know, uh, like that, that right there, by the way, you know, that kind of thing.

That’s, that’s, that’s poetry to me, that’s transcendental, you know, uh, uh it’s and, and, and, and I also agree with you, by the way, is something, uh, in the search for truth and not just happiness, but in the search for truth and meaning. Cause that’s, you know, I personally believe that like, you know, hedonism will only get you so far.

Um, maybe some folks, I definitely folks are built different and you know, your mileage may vary, but, but you know, for my money’s worth, I think, I think that we all get more out of reality if, you know, if we sh kind and, and once again, uh, like the idea of, you know, everybody who wants to revolution, you know, like you realize like revolutions, they often have very similar endings, you know, it’s, it’s like the who song it, meet the new boss.

He’s the same as the old boss. Uh, so until we’re able to like, you know, figure out what’s going on in here and in here, that’s the, you know, that’s the only chance we have for any real meaningful revolution or change is, is when we’re able to change ourselves, uh, change our immediate surroundings and environment, you know, uh, make the world a little better around you and, and hope that trickles down.

[01:50:37] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, I guess trickle down is all we can hope for, but we’re all trickling down into each other and, and I’ve really benefited a lot from the stuff that you’ve done. That’s trickled down my way and I hope people check out your website. You have some, you’re a great writer you really are, and you really bring up a lightness to it, but get all the facts out there.

So,

[01:51:00] Phillip Fairbanks: feel like I talk about a lot of, uh, deep and dark subjects and, you know, at the same time, I don’t think people are able to like square it with me. You know? , when I was doing the, the higher side chats, I saw some people are like, you know, , like he’s is he taking this stuff as a joke or something like, no, , I’ve got kind of a super silliest expression half the time, because if I did know, would go crazy, you know, like honestly, like, I make light of things, uh, you know, because things are so heavy, you know, things are really heavy and, , that’s no reason to let yourself get dragged down by them.

You know, that’s another thing that, you know, I always try and mention, you know, um, one of, one of the tricks of, of, you know, uh, the powers that be, or however you want to describe them is demoralization in depression, you know, Uh, cause you’re not going to be on top of things. You’re not going to change anything in your own life or outside of your own life, if you’re demoralized and depressed and it’s easy to get that way when, when you see like, oh, well it looks like, you know, but no, I, I don’t buy the fact that like evil is in charge.

No, I just don’t buy it. I just don’t feel it. I don’t believe it’s true. I could be wrong, you know, and if I. Well, you know, I’m, I’m glad that I’m wrong because I’m going to have a better life, not believing that evil is in charge and being frozen with fear or indecision as a result. So, yeah. Wow.

[01:52:40] Alex Tsakiris: That’s really pretty deep.

I think that’s very profound. And I agree with you. I think the evidence suggests the opposite is that the light is in charge and the good is in charge and it’s a million times brighter and stronger than the dark. And that’s why the dark, you know, thrashes around and does all this stuff and plays all this game because it’s the only attention they’re going to get

[01:53:07] Phillip Fairbanks: like a temper tantrum.

[01:53:08] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, that’s right. And in the stillness of our heart, when we weighed out into the ocean, am I going to the ocean later on today? And you weighed out there a little bit and you look at the immensity of it and how small you are and yet how God still penetrates through all that immensity and reaches you that’s that’s magic.

And the rest of this stuff that they’re calling magic is just trick.

[01:53:36] Phillip Fairbanks: Right. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically parlor tricks. Yeah.

[01:53:42] Alex Tsakiris: So awesome, man. Thank you for taking so much time with me. I’m super interested in the jolly book. So let me know when that

[01:53:49] Phillip Fairbanks: oh yeah. I can’t wait to share it with you.

[01:53:51] Alex Tsakiris: And I’ll see on the union.

[01:53:53] Phillip Fairbanks: Oh, definitely. Hope so. Yeah. That was a lot of fun. Thanks again, by the way. I appreciate it.

(—-)

Thanks again to Philip Fairbanks for joining me today on skeptic co. The one question I tee up from this interview is.

What are we to make of our government’s involvement in the scariest, darkest evil stuff that they have been exposed now to be a part of openly, we all do this all along, . There’s a new little expos.

Out on the CIA and sex trafficking kids as part of their intelligence gathering. I mean, that’s just, we do it, but it’s just, we can’t really, really, really get there from here or, you know, land of the free home of the brave and. Oh, let me procure a two year old boy for you. Let me procure a six year old girl for you in the hopes that I get some information. We, we, I don’t know. I can’t process that. I don’t know how that fits together. Maybe you do. And that’s, I guess the question to tee up from this interview is how do we wrap our head around that?

Let me know your thoughts. It’s not always stark, but as Phil does a great job of pointing out in this interview. When it is, we have to face it and find a way through it without getting demoralized, without getting depressed with a way of continuing to pursue the light. At least that’s what seems to make the most sense to me. Until next time take care bye for now

 

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