Dr. Doug Matzke, Quantum Computers and Extended Consciousness |487|

Dr. Doug Matzke, has a PhD in quantum computing… he gets the physics to extended consciousness link.

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Audio Clip: [00:00:00] It’s completely safe. Sure it is.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:10] That’s a clip from the Netflix series Black Mirror. That particular episode is Ark Angel about a overzealous parent who suffers the unintended consequences of using some really cool technology to make her daughter’s life better and more safe. Of course, I could have picked just about any episode of black mirror to highlight the dystopian, 1984 Orwellian future that so many are predicting will come with technology advances. But what is different about this show, and what I’m super excited to bring you about this show is we’re going to talk to someone, Quantum Doug, Dr. Quantum Doug, who really has the chops, PhD in quantum computing, over 20 years experience as a senior member of the technical staff of Texas Instruments and Doug can take us not just from the technology, but he can bridge us to extended consciousness and the metaphysical spiritual aspect of this. It’s a deep dive so I have a lot of clips that I want to play for you to try and motivate you to hang in there just like I had to. Yeah, it is but I got Michael Scott this little bit. Explain it to me, like I’m five years old.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:01:35] That’s the part that people can’t understand about entanglement is that you can’t have entanglement unless you have four dimensions. But every E bit has its own four dimensions, private dimensions, because otherwise they’d interact. So that means that there’s a gazillion dimensions out there. And we can show that with Shor’s algorithm, in that the number of dimensions that you have in quantum computing is two to the power of Q where Q is the number of cubits and if you have two to the 300 cubits you have 300 cubits which would allow you to break, using shor algorithm, every encryption in any internet in the world. It’s just like gravity works independent of whether you believe in it or not, right, and most people don’t realize that relativity is also doing its thing independent whether you believe it or not. But guess what, if you didn’t believe in it, none of our GPS would work. All the satellites and up in space, have to synchronize their clocks with respect to relativity, or none of our GPS would work. It’s proto physics, It’s not metaphysics, It’s proto physics, It’s, Imagine if the quantum states, quantum stuff was marked as black magic and nobody did anything about it. Our society right now would be, no had no lasers, no computers, no transistors, nothing. No, nothing.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:53] I love it but Doug, this is where we part ways, who the fuck thinks Google is interested in helping fucking society. What evidence, no I’m dead fucking serious. Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Tsakiris and today we’re joined by Dr. Doug Matzke and he’s here to talk about his new book, Deep Reality, why source science, and in a minute Doug will tell us what that means, may be the key to understanding human potential. It’s a book that he co authored with the very well known and highly regarded Stanford scientist, Dr. William Tiller. You know, if you go to Amazon like I did, you can actually read this book for free if you have Kindle Unlimited, which is quite incredible, especially what an amazing book it is and how informed this guy is Quantum Doug, Dr. Quantum Doug, I mean, hold on, this guy has a frickin PhD in quantum computing from the University of Texas and he’s not just a really smart guy like academically smart, theoretical physics smart in a way that we all wouldn’t understand which he is all that but he spent 20 years at Texas Instruments and we’re going to talk about that for a minute. I was there at Texas Instruments for a while, were you there, I was just an intern, but whatever. Working on some of the most advanced artificial intelligence chip technology in the world, he worked on the famous Lisp chip, which if you can get over the fact that it was put into those drone bombs that Obama sent over to strike on Yemen wedding parties. Beside that, I mean, it’s making America great again, kind of, I guess, I don’t know. But this guy really, really knows his stuff and what’s really remarkable about this, from a kind of Skeptiko perspective, the stuff that we like to talk about, Doug is not just here to talk about quantum computing, artificial intelligence, strong AI and all that stuff, which I am going to talk to him at great length about that, because there’s so few people who can make that connection between theoretical quantum physics that is central to what we’re all about right now, our technology and our science, but make that connection to the real world. It’s happening now in terms of quantum computing reality and Doug can nail that down. He really knows what he’s talking about. But if you want to talk about next level metaphysics and connecting all that stuff to metaphysics, which we always do and everyone wants to go, Oh, that’s so woowoo. No, this guy will take the whole path from real life today quantum computing as it’s happening, as it’s about to happen, the stuff that you don’t even hear about, he can take you there. And then he can talk about near death experiences and they can talk about Monroe Institute and out of body traveling, you projecting into Utopian realities, time traveling into the future. And then if you want to talk about controversial stuff, like transgender issues, strong AI simulation hypothesis, and how that all might relate to Doug’s understanding of what he’s calling source science, which is really just another way of saying quantum physics in a way. I mean, like I say, it’s remarkable, remarkable stuff. Doug, and I were talking just a minute ago that, you know, hey, maybe he doesn’t have as many media appearances as some other people do, I don’t know, I watched a couple of his presentations on YouTube and it’s like, fantastic stuff. I read the book, It’s powerful stuff and I think that the reason why we are not more welcoming as an overall society, collective science community, to Doug’s work, I think might turn out to be part of this story. But we got to get to the guy and talk to him. Dr. Doug, thanks for joining me on Skeptiko, I’m so glad you’re here.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:07:31] Hey yeah, thanks Alex, appreciate it.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:07:33] So tell us a little bit about this remarkable book. What is sort science?

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:07:39] Yeah exactly. Well, part of the thing that’s going on with, in the metaphysics area, but also in the regular, you know, AI even you know, it’s like everybody’s trying to figure out well, what, how are we smart, you know and how are we intelligent? Where it comes from, you know, and ultimately, and like, even if you include the law of attraction, law of attraction says, well, where does meaning come from? Well, it all has to do with our underlying model of how we represent thoughts and meaning, which is what AI is about too right. And so the question is, if you understand that the universe is ultimately quantum mechanical, you know, Fineman says the world is not classical dammit, it’s quantum mechanical, right? And so when you realize that you go, well, how does that relate to all of these topics that were just listing here? It turns out that if you look at ultimately the physics has bits, part of physics in other words, you no longer treat bits as computer science anymore, physics, bits are physics, it’s physics, the physics of black holes and quantum.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:08:50] Hold on, hold on, we’re already gonna lose people and there’s no need to lose people because your book is incredibly lucid and accessible on that level. It quickly gets deep, you can quickly kind of drive off a cliff here. But let’s start with something simple, what we talked about a lot of time on this show is the old double slit experiment. So take this through the double slit experiment and then explain for us like you do really beautifully and I always point this out to people what Dean Radin, Dr. Dean Radin who many people know and wrote a just a glowing review of your book. So take us to the old double slit experiment which I often say you know, is really should be renamed as the consciousness is real experiment. But how we got from there, and then how there was all this confusion about it that was created and then what Dean Radin did really kind of buried that once and for all from a metaphysical standpoint.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:09:56] Yeah, the double slit experiment ties all those things that we’re just talking about together because it says, look at the very low level quantum mechanics is real, right. And it has this weird property where everything is a wave even a single electron interacting with itself acts like a wave, not multiple electrons, just a single electron. So goes through both slits at one time and when you put that in a box, it’s automated and shielded consciousness will affect that, and that’s sort of this whole, how can intention in and consciousness affect quantum mechanics is sort of the fundamental thing that Dean Radin’s experiment did. And once you realize, oh, maybe quantum mechanics and thought are really the same thing. So it’s not unusual that they would interact, sort of, that’s the model, what I call source science, is that those things are really the same thing. And then how I support that argument through, you know, 400 pages of the book, is, is the insight that I had, in fact, this book was written purely as, pretty much as inside, it’s like, I don’t take credit for the book. As much as I sort of like channeled the book, if you want to think about it that way.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:11:12] I don’t want to think about it that way, cause it’s gonna throw a lot of people off, I mean…

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:11:17] You know, the point is it’s intellect and insight at the same time. So you know in, and I only wrote when I was inspired, I didn’t write when I was 14 to get it done, so I took five years to write the book.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:11:29] Like I can imagine now it’s theory of everything kind of level, but with backing it up, you know, kind of thing. Let me, I feel like we’re still not touching people and maybe we are maybe we’re aren’t, I don’t know, but like your, dissertation, I don’t understand your dissertation for crap. But a couple of the buzzwords that I pulled out of it is the standard model. Okay, so that means CERN, that means they built this huge frickin Hadron Collider ring miles and miles up in the Alps to slam these things together, so they could find all the little pieces that we hypothesize are there aren’t really there. You come along, and you go, Oh, okay, I can do that just with…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:12:21] Just with math.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:12:22] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:12:23] So take us through that at a super high level in terms of what’s going on with quantum mechanics that people don’t understand. You know, we just talked about the the double slit experiment, but people still don’t understand it and then they still don’t understand.. so the double slit experiment, right is the proton beam and sometimes it looks like a wave sometimes it looks like a particle, it shouldn’t be, it should either be a wave or it should be a particle and then the conclusion is, aha, the observer effect comes out of that. If I observe, if a tree falls in the forest then it’s a wave and If it doesn’t, then it’s an particle kind of thing, and that you’re kind of saying, Yeah, but it’s much, much, much bigger than that and how does that relate to? So that’s the idea of this term, you’re using source science, it’s like, if you keep drilling down, drilling down, drilling down, the reason that the double slit experiment looks so weird, is because they just don’t really want to embrace what’s down there at that lower level.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:13:25] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So the key insight from this is that even quantum computing, which is what I did for my dissertation, just bits under there and those bits are just like, we would think about them in computer science, they’re ones and zeros. But they happen to be represented in a mathematical way that you can say computer science and physics can use the same representation, that resilience of the geometric algebra. So once you have a common language now, where computer science and physics can talk together, and you can treat bits as though they’re physics, that’s the insight that started this whole thing. Does that make sense? Did I make that clear?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:14:10] I think it does. You know, what really helped me a lot, what I, and I thought, you know, cause, talk about the coin demonstration because from an information standpoint, there’s a little bit of an aha moment that I think a lot of people will grasp.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00: 14:29] Yeah, yeah. Imagine that you have, I have something behind my back, right? And I’m gonna hold it out and there’s a coin there in my hand, okay. And I’m going to put it back behind my hand and then I’m going to show again, what looks like a similar coin, maybe identical coin, right? And if I put it back in and say, how many coins do I have? And this is, this demo was created by my colleague, Mike Murphy and he ended, and the answer is, well, you have one coin or maybe we have more than one coin, right? So there’s quite a bit of information. Now if I take my coin, the hand out and I show you both coins at the same time, I’ve just given you a bit information right, right Alex? it’s either one or more than one right and I just, you’ve got a bit of information now, you know there’s two and the question is, where did that bit come from?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:15:25] Where does the information come from? Right.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:15:27] Yeah, where did that bit of information come from? And the only way that it can happen is if you have them concurrently presented at the same time.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:15:39] Let’s trace that back if we can to kind of the way we all know quote unquote, computers work, right? Something is either on or it’s off, you either turn on that little donut or you turn it off and now help us understand how you’ve just kind of smashed that model a little bit.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:16:00] Yeah, even turing computing, which is supposed to be about anointment computing and turing computing is supposed to be more sequential, but here, concurrency itself effects bits at the physics level and that’s a new concept. This is what we call non Shannon information and it’s non causal information because, you know, even if you have physics you have to say, well I have two electrons hitting at the same time, well what is the same timing? That’s a concurrent event right? Well, relativity says there is no such thing as current events, It’s all relative, right? So there’s this sort of like questions that whole notion of concurrency in a quantum mechanics perspective.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:16:51] And now that, tie that to another mystery that people have in their head, but they don’t really understand how it fits in. But what we all know kind of what entanglement is.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:17:02] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:17:03] So what is entanglement say about concurrency?

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:17:09] Absolutely, even entanglement is the second step in quantum mechanics, if there’s, if you’re going to try to learn a little bit about quantum mechanics in this lecture here, in this interview that we’re going to do here, then one thing you have to realize a qubit is really two bitst that can be sort of like both on and off at the same time right, and a regular coin cannot be on and off at the same time. But eventually if you had two of those, two bits and now you have this what’s called a phase angle, this 45 degree phase angle that can be both on and off at the same time, right? So if you have two of those cubits topologically then you have what’s called an EBIT and entangled bit. And you can prepare it in such a way that they’re two things acting like one in fact, in the geometric algebra, it looks like a higher dimensional version of a qubit, exactly the same, no difference.

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 18:07] You’re just too frickin smart Doug, I swear, you just are. So i’m gonna…

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:18:13] But just those two concepts and know that they’re related and geometric algebra gives you the clue about how they’re related, then that’s the fun part of it and you go, Oh, so that’s the route of source science.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:24] Yeah it is. But I got Michael Scott just little bit. Explain it to me like I’m five years old. But let me say this, when you were at Texas Instruments, right?

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:18:35] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:36] And you guys are making these chips.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:18:38] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:39] And you’re using Moore’s law a lot of people know what Moore’s law is to get denser and denser, more and more transistors, and more and more information packed into those chips. At some point you got or you are getting to the point where you go, gee- golly-darn, we just can’t lie those wires any closer together because why can’t you at a very real, you know, I also talk to this guy, Bernardo Kastrup and he works for a high tech company that makes the machines that do all this kind of stuff and so, yeah, explain it and explain entanglement from that perspective in terms of Gosh, darn it, we can’t do it anymore.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:19:23] Well, this notion of limits of computing, I think that’s what you’re talking about here, right? Limits of computing, which is…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:19:30] What I’m trying to get to is that entanglement isn’t a fuzzy phony, hairy, airy fairy concept. It’s like, you can’t do shit that you want to do because of entanglement.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:19:44] Yes. In fact, many quantum properties entanglement is one of them, where you realize quantum mechanics is generally fuzzy and because of entanglement, they’re correlated at a distance that’s what entanglement does for you, that superposition part of quantum mechanics is probability that means it’s fuzzy and you know that the fact that you can’t look into a qubit and know what it is without destroying it, right? There’s a no cloning principle in quantum mechanics, it says you can’t even know the state of the quantum bit so talk about fuzzy, right? If you take two of those cubits and create entanglement, now you have two things acting like one even though they’re far apart. And that can’t be done in classical physics at all. In fact Einstein said, Oh, this isn’t, this isn’t real in fact, Einstein said for many years, he says, this is spooky action at a distance, right? And finally, in the 60s Bell, John Bell says, No, this is real and you can’t do it any other way except through quantum mechanics. Now they’re Chinese and everybody else is building quantum entangled chips, you know, that allow you to send entangled stuff around so it’s technology now you know, so it’s real and guess what, you can’t have any bit less, you have four dimensions. So how do those four dimensions, again, comes out of the geometric algebra. How does that four dimensions interact with the three dimensions that is our universe, right? That’s where your head goes POW! right off the top.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:21] Great, great. That’s where your head goes, pow, you got a great, you got a great line in the book that maybe can further elaborate on this. So what you’re discovering and as you say, you know, we’re all enamored by technology and you just made an offhand remark you know, oh, yeah the Japanese have like, basically a modem that they can now send us information because entangled particles move at, we don’t even, can’t even calculate, I meant simultaneous, how can it move around the world? I don’t know it does it. That’s a reality, quantum computers, AlphaGo, Google, that’s a reality. It doesn’t fit all problems, it may fit more problems in the future. But quantum computers are real things.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:22:10] Absolutely.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:55] Then what you say that only works because of an understanding of a multi dimensional reality and yet, we understand our reality to be three dimensional. So now we’re forced to pick Okay, which reality do we want? We have this hard evidence that this is the ultimate reality. It’s greater than this but we have a tendency to say no, no, no, no, let’s force it back into this old thing we’re comfortable with called this 3d reality?

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:22:42] Absolutely, absolutely.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:22:45] Do you want to speak to that? Because that’s the launching off point in your book to the whole discussion of metaphysics.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:22:52] If you believe, like Fineman says the universe canticle but still, you have to say, well how does it keep it you know, that’s the part that people can’t understand about entanglement is that you can’t have entanglement unless you have four dimensions. But every E bit has its own four dimensions, private dimensions, because otherwise they interact. So that means that there’s a gazillion dimensions out there and we can show that with Shor’s algorithm in that the number of dimensions that you have in quantum computing is two to the power of Q, where Q is the number of qubits and if you have two to the 300 cubits, you have 300 cubits, which would allow you to break using shor algorithm, every encryption in any internet in the world, if you could build a 300 bit qubit that’s bigger than most 256 bit encryption codes that we use on our, for all of our secure communications, yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:23:48] Everything you’re saying is so, like we said at the beginning, it’s just so important. It just really is. It’s so fundamentally important. It’s not out there you don’t have 100 interviews out there Doug, I don’t know why, but you don’t. You don’t have a TED talk with 5 million views, I don’t know why you don’t. It’s the, it’s like, fundamentally important. So bringing it down to reality that people can relate to okay, go to Netflix and watch the AlphaGo documentary, It’s a fascinating documentary. We’ve all heard about how computers can solve problems that we think are demonstrating human intelligence. So the chess you know, a computer can play chess, Deep Blue beats the best chess player. Well, it turns out that even more complicated computer problem is the game GO it’s very popular in Asia, it’s less popular here but acknowledges kind of the ultimate thinking game. So the good people at Google said about funding this little group to go see if they could beat the best GO player and the documentary I would highly recommend and people watch it and there’s going to be an interesting connection we’re going to try and make between the AI that they use to solve GO, to solve the GO problem and beat the best GO player in the world, which isn’t quantum by the way, and then how that might become quantum, and how it could lead to even, you know, really whipping the guy’s butt even quicker. And then as you throw in the book, yeah, and by the way, Google totally realizes this and they’re building their own quantum computer. And they’re at like, what 38 qubit or something. You said when we get to 300, it’s like game over for any encryption. They’re at 38 and then break that down for us to in terms of what that means because that’s like already bigger than like, if you put all the supercomputers in the world in a room, you’d be bigger than that at solving some problems. So there’s a lot to unravel there, please.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:25:53] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the point I was making about the 300, is that two to the 300, It’s hard for people to imagine how big that is, the power of exponential. But two to the 300 is more particles in the known universe. That big, okay. So even if you had every particle in the universe, to be a computer that was working on solving that problem, they would all have to work together, even though there’s, you know, 30 million, 3 billion light years away from each other, working together to solve that problem. So quantum computing feats. It is two to the 300 states, sort of like a Doctor whose time machine, you know, where it’s got this much bigger space behind it, then it looks like from looking at the phone booth, right? So quantum computing is like that, essentially, it’s using all of these states out there and we would say, physicists would say, well, those are mathematical. No, they’re real, because they can compute and what if humans tap into that state space and do things that we didn’t expect them to do, right? So that’s how it connects those two things.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:27:11] Well, and I think, you know, the main thrust of your book is that humans already do connect. And that our misunderstanding has been that we don’t connect, and that we’ve adopted a model for how human consciousness works, that is conveniently or intentionally dumbed down in order to kind of push certain ideas. But I did want to return to the AlphaGo thing, because I think it’s a great example. It’s like, if you’re like me, I like to play online chess occasionally and I’m really not very good at it at all. But one of the things that always gives me is a reminder as, one as a kid in Pakistan, who’s 12 years old kicks my butt or as the computer if I ever turned it on full speed just destroys me that, you know, my level of kind of cognitive processing of that level, you know, it’s kind of narrow, but it’s just, it’s humbling, right? It’s okay, I get it, I have all these thoughts going through my head, I’m really not that smart. And then, so then you take AlphaGo and you go okay, now we’re upping the level, like this guy who’s the AlphaGo champ is like, just a lot smarter. You know, you taught me he’s a lot smarter. And then you see not only that the computer beats him. But the thing I got out of that and I don’t know, if you remember this from the movie or just from, you know, your knowledge of it. What it revealed, was an entirely different strategy, that people who’ve played GO for 1000 years, or however long hadn’t really fully considered and that’s that, you don’t have to destroy the other opponent, all you have to do is win by the slightest margin. So if you get to any point where you can calculate it out all the way and say I’ll win by the slightest margin. So the point is that strategically, this kind of next level thinking was done by the computer and what does that mean when we make the transition, as you’re talking about in terms of saying, you know, what, really, this is what I hear you saying, and I want you to speak to because I never knew this until I read your book, is that I always thought quantum computing would be limited to certain classes of problems. Because right now, that’s the only thing we can apply it to and what I hear you saying in the book is, yeah, well, that’s where we’re at now. But eventually, we do everything with it, because it’s closer to the source of how everything really works.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [00:29:53] Yeah absolutely, yeah and imagine I mean, my instinct for going and working on my PHD was, what if we could take any algorithm and parallelize it and speed it up using quantum computing, right? And the question is, is that what we’re doing with our mind anyhow? You know and so we only have a limited sense of what algorithms actually speed up. But Gosh, if you’re cheating and you have this infinite dimensional hyperspace that you have tapped into, then and essentially you it’s think of it as both computing and memory. I mean think of it as a computing a simulator big enough to run the entire physical universe in. That’s a pretty powerful computing paradigm and it’s really there because otherwise quantum computing wouldn’t work and quantum computing is the basis of all our physics, including the Big Bang and black holes and everything else. So it’s there, how do we tap into it is the big question.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:13:27] So Doug, how is the Deep Reality book going? Is it, do you feel like it’s getting through to people, it’s just an awesome, awesome, you know, book again, I super encourage everyone to check it out. How’s it going for, for you and Dr. Tiller? And how do you feel about it?

Dr. Doug Matzke: [01:13:48] Well, Dr. tiller, you know, his organization and him is promoting the book and that’s helping and so, we’re starting you know as a brand new author, you know, Dean Raiden, has, you know, 50 interviews per month, when he has a new book out and I’m just getting that started with my book as being the first author. So, I want to thank you for inviting me because this is the beginning of, I’m hoping the beginning with your interview of other people going, yeah, I have something to say and I probably have something that’s unique to be said that’s based on science and yet ,gives us hope you know, that we can talk about all these subjects in a way that’s meaningful you know, so right now it’s, I’d say it’s slow starting, but I’m not worried about that because my goal is that the right people are going to find out of the book and I’ve met some very interesting people so far and people who are 100% behind what I’m doing, and that’s encouraging.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:14:51] How could it be otherwise, again, you know, towards the end here, you’re just in my opinion, just knocking it out of the park with the…

Dr. Doug Matzke: [01:14:59] Thank You.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:15:00] NDE and the good verses in the life review, which I’ve always felt is the most important thing to understand about NDE along with the fact that there is a moral imperative, and I love your point about we can always, you know, we are good, you know, my point is always that we are more ,we are not biological robots in a meaningless universe ,we are this divine ever expanding beings and I’m not, I’m not Christian, I’m not religious, get that straight. But also we are good, we are good, we can always choose good and the fact that so many people choose darkness and evil is just the confusion, misunderstanding, that’s their thing, that they’re gonna have to work on

Dr. Doug Matzke: [01:15:42] Just some optimized decision, as I like to call it.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:15:43] Some optimized decision. So, you are to be congratulated and I love your spirit of, this book will reach the right people.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [01:15:54] Thank you.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:15:55] However many they are and wherever they are, it’s super important that someone with your background and your ability to just directly confront the technology that is so immediately relevant to our life. And then do it in a way that is immediately expansive into this metaphysical stuff is, it’s a head trip man, I’m just telling you, you’re really to be congratulated. Great work.

Dr. Doug Matzke: [01:16:30] Thank you, thank you, I appreciate you inviting me for this interview today and I appreciate all the, obviously you spend a lot of time looking at this book beforehand and I appreciate that too and so that it’s an informed interview and people will know that sincere and I appreciate that part of it too so…

Alex Tsakiris: [0 1:16:49] Okay, they’re gonna hate on me but that’s okay, read the book anyway. Thanks again to Dr. Doug Matzke for joining me today on Skeptiko. The one question that have to tee up from this interview is what do you make of Doug’s transition from quantum physics, quantum computing to the metaphysical to the spiritual science? It’s a leap that he claims it’s an undeniable leap. What do you think? Let me know your thoughts, jump on over to the Skeptiko forum or track me down wherever you can find me. Plenty of shows coming up stay with me for all of that. Until next time, take care and bye for now.

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