Luis Jimenez, UFO Threats |551|

Luis Jimenez, has interviewed many leading UFO researchers about the UFO threat narrative.

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Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko. A show about looking like you’re in control

[00:00:07] Luis Jimenez: I think the biggest concern for a military is not looking foolish. So ha it let’s say that is true. Let’s say they do have 70 years of information that proves undoubtedly or everything that we think is happening is actually happening. how do you release that information responsibly?

[00:00:27] Alex Tsakiris: (a show about looking link your in control… and a show about our desire for protection) and this show about what we’re willing to give up in order to feel protected.

(Clip) We live in a world that has walls and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about it Parties You want me on that wall You need me on that wall

[00:00:49] Alex Tsakiris: stick around for my interview with creator and host of on identified celebrity review, Luis.

(—–)

[00:01:02] Alex Tsakiris: . Welcome to skeptical where we explore, contrast your science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Securus. And today we welcome Lou Jimenez to skeptical. I have kind of a cool picture of Lou up on the screen.

This is from his unidentified celebrity review podcast, which is. Gotta be the hardest working guy in the UFO community, pumping it out with all these unbelievable interviews that he does so many times a week. Lou is also comedian actor. Impressive. I am DB page. I mean, some people put up an IMD B and they just have like a couple of credits.

You got a lotta, you got a lot of parents is here, man. What’s up with that?

[00:01:57] Luis Jimenez: Uh, well, yeah man, that’s, that’s 20 years of my life right there that you’re showing, you know, it was, it’s been a long, long road, you know, and it’s still continuing, it’s not over. Um, but yeah, it’s just funny it’s I haven’t looked at that in awhile.

So when you bring it up, it’s always like, yeah, that’s pretty well, I do have some pretty good credits in there. Um, and I’ve worked with some really, really cool people, so yeah, it’s been. It’s uh, that right there is the resume of a working, but you know, still struggling actors, still trying to make his way in the world.

, you never know when that, that, that one rolls right around the corner.

[00:02:37] Alex Tsakiris: That’s right. That’s right. You know, and we were chatting just a minute ago before we came on about actors, because you’re obviously. Interested in that and drawn to that. And you’re also drawn to comedy too, which I think is kind of an interesting angle on this.

But what we’re really going to talk about today is this really amazing, amazing UFO channel that you’ve developed on YouTube. And I say amazing, because I think you bring that sensibility, you know how to engage with people, you know how to entertain us, but man, you know, you’re, you know, the game, I mean, do you know the topic you’re talking about?

[00:03:18] Luis Jimenez: , I don’t know, man, I I’ve got my, my main training and acting as improv. So I’ve been doing improv comedy for, for easily, 20 years and unknowingly for a long time before that I was doing improv comedy.

I think there was a couple of things that I saw that was like, oh man, I feel like it’d be good at that. I watched the kids in the hall was like one of the first sketch groups I ever came across and became obsessed with. And then I saw, um, whose line is it anyway? And I’m like, oh yeah, I could absolutely do that.

That looks like a blast. Just making stuff up on the spot. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds fun. Um, but then when you start training and you really get into it, you find there’s a term in the improv community called. And it’s this point that you reach on stage where everything is clicking, the audience is absolutely into it.

And then you, as performers are making things up, but at the same time, you’re able to know exactly the thing the other person’s going to do, uh, because you’ve connected so well. Um, so I think I bring a lot of that sort of to my interviews, into my show. Like the idea of no matter what happens on the show, wait, there’s been a lot of weird things or awkward moments.

Um, I immediately fall to that training and just, you know, say something, say something because something needs to be said, you know, or, and, and address. Usually we like to address the awkward. Because if you can address it and talk about it and get comfortable in the awkwardness, I think that leads to even more interesting things that are said or more, you know, um, uh, different thinking in what you’re conversing about.

So, uh, I think, you know, I don’t like to call myself or consider myself a journalist at all. Um, I’ve never went to journalism school. I’m not, um, trained in that whatsoever, but I am trained in listening, like listening, uh, to other people and trying to decipher what they’re saying is, is always something that I’ve just, I’m just always doing, uh, body language, like, you know, all those things that I do on stage when I’m having a conversation with people.

I also try and do and, and read the room and read your audience, things like that.

[00:05:49] Alex Tsakiris: That’s what comes through to me and that in, and you’re saying is you’re not a journalist. I mean, these are such amazing, amazing times that we live in the topic you are covering , can’t be a more important topic.

I mean, we are not alone. Kind of is one of the ultimate fundamental questions. And then to think about the time that we’re in, where whatever we think of big brother government, it is big brother and big brother has come out and said, all right, it’s real. You’ll help. We’ve denied it for 70 years now.

We’re telling you it’s real. So , you’re interviewing all the top people. , , , this is the journalistic scoop of all time, isn’t it?

[00:06:31] Luis Jimenez: . Yeah. I mean, look, I got super lucky. What essentially happened is I met Lou Elizondo while I was working in a restaurant. And, um, and so that kind of, I was already thinking about doing a channel before. And that, and I wanted to talk about UFO’s, but I also I’m an actor. I’m very self-conscious. I didn’t want anybody looking at me like I was a weirdo or finding that channel and going, okay.

Yeah, we can’t hire this guy for a brand new CBS pilot. Um, I mean, those are legitimate. Those are the concerns I still have now. Um, but after meeting him and talking to him, I was like, okay, this is what I’m going to do my channel about. And then it wasn’t till about a year, almost a year after that, where I reached back out to Lou and said, Hey, I was a server at this restaurant this day, and this happened, and I’d love to talk to you again for my channel that I started a year ago.

And he came on and I think that was sort of the, the getting my foot in the door as far as interviews were concerned. Cause I wasn’t doing interviews for the first year of my channel. Um, and you know, when he agreed to do our activism event, the big phone home, um, And he agreed to come on the show. It was a, it was a really great sort of, I guess, solidification of the channel, like if he was going to go on that channel and miss, you know, that was a good end or a good way to sort of introduce myself to other folks in the community that I just wanted to talk to.

And I would find, you know, especially Twitter, I would find interesting, fun ways to interact with them. And I think that’s what got me a lot of these different interviews, just sort of my, my, my wit and humor. Um, and I th I, I never thought about it in the way that you just laid it out. But then I was thinking of sort of like Jon Stewart, you know, and, and Tim McMillan sort of compared our show to.

Talk show for UAP. And I was like, yeah, that’s about what we were going for. Um, and, and we’re going to really, when we come back from our break and we come back on the 28th of this month, um, you know, that’ll be very eminent in the production where we’re really ramping up the production of the show. And as far as, um, segments and things that we’re doing in the second hour, we’re shortening our interviews from two hours to one hour.

, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, I got lucky in a lot of ways, uh, with a lot of these interviews and a just sort of steam rolled in, and it seems to be a place where, um, where people feel safe about talking about the topic because, um, we’re not judging either way, but we also. Want to call BS where we see BS and we want to, we don’t want to believe system, and we don’t want to create a belief system for anybody.

We want to make sure that people are looking at the evidence and, and how could we move the discussion in a place where it doesn’t require a whole bunch of stories and conflicting information to, to be something worthy of looking at.

[00:09:44] Alex Tsakiris: So we don’t go totally inside baseball because a lot of this stuff, I’m going to put up an interview and it’s going to have UFO on it.

And a lot of people just going to skip over it, because a lot of the universe idea or on other topics of near-death experience or consciousness science pair of psychology and all the rest of that stuff, who is Lou Elizondo. And then let’s talk about kind of the good, the bad, and some of the things that people are saying.

And then we’ll play a clip from a recent interview. You did.

[00:10:14] Luis Jimenez: , so that’s, you know, it’s a great question. I don’t, I don’t know all, every bit of Lou Elizondo, I’ve only, you know, I’ve met him and I say only, but it’s a lot compared to some other people, but I’ve met him nine times, including all my interviews and my actual personal interaction with them.

Um, I, from what I gather, you know, who he is as a, from, from a, you know, if you’re trying to educate your audience of, okay, who is Elizondo? What does he mean to this discussion? He is a gentleman who ran a government program called advanced aerospace threat identification program. Um, and essentially helped when he was a whistleblower.

He helped release three videos, um, and, and, um, cooperating pilot testimony in 2017 and the New York times article. That was essentially the, the realization that our government has a lot more information on the subject of UAPs. And UFO’s the government likes to call them UAPs because there’s a lot less stigma to it.

And UAP means unidentified aerial phenomena, UFO identified flat. Um, but so that’s sort of his. Is, uh, in a quick nutshell and there’s a lot to it. Uh, but that’s sort of who he is, um, who he is as a person. I mean, he’s, he’s a war hero, you know, he’s been involved with catching terrorists, uh, in cliches Muhammad, um, you know, for what we could see, he is the most.

We’ve always, I, for me, I’ve always wanted a government. I’m like, why don’t government officials come forward and say, if there is something to this, why don’t they come forward more and do more whistleblowing in, in the case of Elizondo. And he’s got the most bonafide to anybody that’s ever come out from within the government.

And so I think those bonafide are what add legitimacy to this stuff. Um, you know, so that’s who he is in a short nutshell from my

[00:12:20] Alex Tsakiris: perspective. So, so my first kind of encounter with even the name was I interviewed, uh, Leslie cane, you know, you know, Leslie cane has interviewed her a couple of times and, you know, she’s kind of really interested in, , after life kind of stuff too.

Did a Netflix series was top 10 on Netflix all about after we wrote a book about it. Very good book. And before that she wrote what was at the time. One of the most respected UFO books, you know, generals, government officials, something go on the record stuff. So then she’s the one who breaks the New York times story.

Like you said, December, 2017, which again, a lot of people don’t even get what an important date that is, you know, but her and Ralph Blumenthal interviewed in both on the show, but my first reaction was fucking Leslie co Intel pro I mean, give me a break. You go to the Pentagon and they put you in a private room and they walk in Lou Elizondo and they say, okay, here’s the thing, here’s the story.

And by the way, it’s declassified. I mean, how does this not. Stink from high heaven as a fed story.

[00:13:40] Luis Jimenez: no, it’s a great question. Uh, I think it’s very easy for us to go there, right?

Because the government has been caught doing a lot of nefarious shit in the past. And, and that’s where my mind went to. When I heard the name of the program is advanced. Ariel threat identification program. I’m 42 years old. I was born in 1980. Since the day I was born. We’ve been sold nothing with threats in war and, and look at the world around us today is, is the consequences of this, of our foreign policy.

Constantly needing a threat to survive, to get the new contracts, to build a new planes, to do, to improve on a nuclear weapon. Like it blows my mind that there’s still a part of our budget that is going toward making a bigger ball than what we already have. It’s like, I don’t understand it. I’ll never understand it.

And, um, so I understand from, uh, from just the citizens’ perspective, all of this shit is coming from the. All of it. Roswell came from the air force, you know, and it’s so funny because most of these people who hate a Lula’s on, or don’t like his story are all very anti-government. But when you talk to them, they believe everything about Roswell.

And it’s like both of these things came from our government. Both of these stories came from our government. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s easy to paint that brush of skepticism over this story. It’s super easy. And it’s very, um, I think, uh,

uh, I don’t know where I’m looking for, but it’s, it’s easy to pursue because hell the government lies all the time. All they do is lie. They’ve perfected mine. So yeah, I, I think the thing that we do is, and we’re really focused on, especially when we come back as a, what have you done for me today? What information have you released today?

What, what is, what is the thing that catches my attention does that lawmakers are paying attention to this and right. Writing laws and legislation to look at this more closely and other things as well within the umbrella of that bill. Um, yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough. I mean, because especially in the last, you know, two months, you know, we’ve learned a sock puppet accounts we’ve learned of, um, of, uh, you know, right now we’re talking about somebody who’s been fired, uh, within the DOD who was apparently Lou Elizondo, his boss and the woman that he was sexually harassing has now taken his place within that department, which seems, it just seems like a circus it’s absolutely bonkers.

Um, so, you know, Our perspectives have changed on a lot of things. And I think that’s the beauty of the show is like, you see the growth of it. Like it, this subject gets you in this rollercoaster of ups and downs of like, oh my God, this is absolutely real. Holy cow, this is, this smells and looks like bullshit.

Um, so walking that line is difficult in my opinion, the thing for me, and this is just for me, and I don’t expect anybody to believe this or take this as, as proof. Cause I’ll never make you take my story’s proof. I’ve seen one of these things up close and personal when I was a young man. It changed my perspective on a lot of things.

So for me, I, I, I know they’re real, but I’d stopped what I’m putting on the tables proof. I’ve got to really try and leave that out of the conversation. But the other thing that I really look at that sort of leads me to believe that there’s, there is a, there, there that something is there, what it is. I have no clue, but is that again, these lawmakers are going into classified meetings.

They’re looking at, they’re looking at data collected by the best instruments on the planet, within our military industrial complex. And they’re coming out of these meetings and going, okay, this information is not getting to the right people. We’re not reacting to this information correctly. Uh, and we need a little more clarity on what the hell is in our skies, whether it’s drones, swarms of drones or unidentified aerial phenomenon that is, uh, displaying technologies far beyond.

What anyone is capable. ,

[00:18:22] Alex Tsakiris:

Well, on one hand, I think anyone who’s talking about this from a purely, uFO’s aren’t real ITI. Isn’t real. That’s a flat earth kind of mentality to me. I don’t even worry about that. The thing that I think is very real and you tuned into it is COINTELPRO political CYA.

I mean, these guys have a long history of luck. Do you know? Uh, this is see, I’m kinda old school in this. I’ve been doing this for a long time and I’ve interviewed all these people a long time ago that aren’t even on the scene. But do you remember Colonel John Alexander? Yes. So for the longest time, You know, he was the guy who said, look, I am a Colonel Ben in intelligence for 20 years.

If there’s any truth to this, I would know because I know all the people who would know, and there’s no truth to any of this, any held this line for just the longest fucking time and thing after thing. And Danny Sheehan, even, you know, confronted him with, we can talk about Danny Sheehan and you know, you don’t know what to make of him either, but Danny Shannon’s like, look in the face of this in the face of this.

And he just did that, you know, stick the chin out like a Colonel and said, it’s not real. It didn’t happen. So I interviewed him a D after disclosure and said, Hey, what’s up, what’s up? And he goes, well, I was wrong. Now let’s talk about my new book on shamanism and all the rest of that shit. And I’m like, Oh, man, that ain’t good enough.

That ain’t good enough. It’s like Richard Doty, you know, looked like the one thing John Alexander said, that was the moment of like, nah, Co Intel bullshit. He said, if Richard Doty did the shit that he said he did, he should be in jail. He should be in Leavenworth and Richard Doty. In case we have to remind people is the guy who did this just dirty, nasty, psychological warfare on a golf guy named Paul Benowitz, who was a patriotic flag raising just American citizen who happened to live across from, uh, from Kirkland in New Mexico and saw stuff and was just like, Hey guys, just want to make sure you’re aware of this.

And they just totally fuck the guy over every which way. And Dodi proud of it. Dodie was like, Hey man, I, I did a good job. That’s what they wanted me to do. And I did it. And can you believe

that flag

wig waving idiot, you know, is like falling for all the stuff. So it’s like. How do we clear? Why isn’t that the first question for Lou?

Why isn’t the first question for is, well, what about John Alexander? What about Richard Doty? To what extent do you separate yourself from this shit? That’s been run on us, uh, with regard to UFO’s.

[00:21:27] Luis Jimenez: Yeah, I think, I mean, it’s hard. It’s hard to like ask him that question. Cause obviously he wasn’t there. He didn’t run those programs.

He wasn’t charged to those people and he, he had nothing to do with any of those people. So, but I understand that those people also are the reason why we should be skeptical. They are perfect examples of why we shouldn’t trust anyone. We shouldn’t, we shouldn’t trust anyone on this conversation until scientific papers start coming down the line, you know, until, until real.

Research on this that is shared publicly.

[00:22:06] Alex Tsakiris: What would you want to see from scientific papers? I mean, here, here’s an interview. You did let me pull this up because I’ve talked to all these people to, , well, we’ll talk about Chris Lambert. You did like, again, back to the point you do great interviews like the Christian Lambright you knew your stuff.

You’re asking the right questions. You’re listening. And when people try and take another direction, you go, no, no, come back to the timeline because the timeline is, what’s so important in his story because he’s the Paul Benowitz guy and really reveals the truth about that. And there’s low, which I don’t know, just, I mean, like you said, you put your finger on it threat.

Okay. So that’s what this is about. That’s all that comes out of your mind threat, threat threat, but, um, here’s the interview you did. I mean, you did a fantastic, you’ve done a number of interviews with Melinda. Yeah, fuck all the rest of these people. Melinda, Leslie, just get to the bottom of that one. She goes, it’s about abduction.

It’s about that kind of level of contact. I’ve had it, I’ve studied it for 40 years, interviewed hundreds and hundreds of people. And what does she say? This gets into my world, Lou, she gets in the first thing. It’s about his consciousness. They want to know about psychic stuff. They show you how to be more psychic the rest of the next thing it’s about, she’s saying, she’s saying people who’ve been taken on the crack.

And have memories of it. Here’s what they report. And so, and then she says, and it’s about technology and it’s about all the rest of this stuff. I mean, when I compare that with what Lou Elizondo saying, I’m like, I could care less about any of the bullshit you’re putting out there. Lou here’s what I want to know is how is ITI interacting with these people in changing their consciousness?

Some people are saying I had a spirit. It’s like a spiritual awakening experience, all the rest of that. I mean, You’re you’re an experiencer. Where does this stuff hit you? Doesn’t it hit you at that fundamental level of who am I? Why am I here? I mean,

[00:24:16] Luis Jimenez: it does, but the problem is, is that we’ve been asking that those questions for such a long time and they’re not moving the ball anywhere, you know, I just don’t know if we’re even ready for the answer to those questions.

I think we got to simplify it more. We’ve got to be able to get everybody on the same page. I love Belinda, Leslie, the deficits. She’s a fascinating person to talk to, but like when I laid out for, I don’t think there’s anything to this, my labs, I really don’t. I don’t think there’s any proof of it at all.

I think to hide a program that large with. Take thousands and thousands and thousands of people to pull off, uh, the budget would be almost impossible to hide. And I compared it to MK ultra ultra was a program that ran for 20 years. It was really small, very few people knew about it. Uh, but when the program was over two years later, they were asking about it and Congress, and we had hearings about it.

And then the public people, the public knew about it. She’s talking about a program that’s been going on for 80 years, 80 years. Um, I just, I can’t, I can’t wrap my brain around that kind of stuff. Um, no, as far as Lou’s concerned, I, I think he’s, you know, again, signing NDAs and I, and I hate to make this excuse, but there are things he can’t talk about.

There are things he can talk about. I, I think. The thing that matters to me, I’m a, at this point, I’m like, I don’t care who the personality is anymore. I’m so concentrated on what are, what are lawmakers doing to get more information on this? I want to see nuts and bolts things. So when you ask me what more can science do, science has paid attention to this at all.

They’re just now getting to it. You know, when you got a Harvard professor, I’ll be lobe looking at this topic in a very serious way, trying to get money, to look at this topic in a very serious way. Um, I think, I think those, hopefully those discoveries will lead us into the conversations of, okay. How did these things consciously connect with us?

Do they, if they do, what are the consequences of that? Or what are the pros of that? Those there’s a lot. It’s, it’s a can it’s Pandora’s box. It’s a can of worms. There’s once you once. Solidify one part of this conversation, it leaves the 15 billion other questions that have to be taken one at a time and that’s not going to happen overnight.

And I don’t think there’s one person or one messenger that’s going to come out and give us all the answers we’re looking for. It’s just not going to happen. I think it’s too complicated. Um, I think we’re, we’re scratching at the surface of something so immensely foreign to the human consciousness and subconsciousness that we really have no clue what we’re tapping into or doing when it comes to this stuff.

Um, and, uh, so yeah, I mean, it’s, I understand that people want those answers and I get it. Um, but I just don’t know if we’re ready for it yet. And if we are, how do we explain it to people? That’s the other thing, like, how do we explain this kind of stuff to the American public? Well,

[00:27:43] Alex Tsakiris: now you’re sounding now you’re sounding, uh, Lou Elizondo ish, you know, like, look what we’ve gained in terms of getting

[00:27:50] Luis Jimenez: no seriously way.

It’s a tough conversation though, Alex. Like I like my sister, I use my family’s perfect example because they have nothing to do with this stuff. They really don’t and they’re supportive of me. They believe my experience that I’ve had. Right. But

[00:28:06] Alex Tsakiris: do you have to have contact experience, citing experience both?

I mean,

[00:28:12] Luis Jimenez: did it lead to,

[00:28:14] Alex Tsakiris: did it, did it lead to though, you know, cause a lot of people who’ve had citing experiences. It also has kind of a valet Davis effect, you know, kind of, you know, there’s a, there’s an effect to it. That’s beyond just the sighting or for you. Was it just more like I saw it?

[00:28:31] Luis Jimenez: Yeah, no, I, I saw it was like, it was like, um, You know, and I know this is a very simple sort of comparison, but it’s like seeing a very rare athlete or airplane or car that you like, can you see it?

You’re like, holy shit. And all you want to do is get closer to it and get a better view of it. And that’s what it was. Um, I mean, like, it absolutely affected me, but I don’t think I ha I had no subconscious messages or downloads or any connection with it in that sort of, um, uh, pair of physical way. I it’s, it was simply something that I saw.

So I, you know, I, I didn’t have that kind of the, the B other elements of, of, you know, the close encounters all the way through C6. If we want to count those. I didn’t have any of that. I’m sorry,

[00:29:34] Alex Tsakiris: your sister tell, tell me more about, so

[00:29:37] Luis Jimenez: yeah, so going back to going back to my sister and my family, like when she tried watching an episode, Of the secret of skin Walker ranch, which sort of is a very remedial way to sort of get into this conversation and sort of even start considering things like this.

And it scared the shit out of her. She couldn’t watch the whole episode. She hasn’t watched the show since then. So this is going to be a very difficult conversation to have with people. It is. Um, and I do believe that there are parts of Lou Elizondo that I think are valuable and I think move the conversation forward.

And then there are other parts where I look and I’m like, man, that’s not valuable. That does not move the conversation forward. Um, you know, I just take what I can and move on with it. Um, and I think this part of the message of look

go when you Google. Painters interpreting cats from, from travelers that came from different parts of the world for the first time. And you look at these wonderful painters and they paint catches, Google it from the, you know, 15 14th century. They look awful. They look nothing like cats. And I think this is kind of like I can under, I can imagine a world in where our government.

Sees a cat for the first time in the form of this phenomenon. And they come back and they meet on it and they have different interpretations of it and all of their drawings and all of their research, don’t paint perfectly what they saw or what they experienced. And I can understand how they’re like, yeah.

If we can’t explain it internally, how the hell are we going to tell anybody else publicly about this? Like, I could see how they would get scared and not it not want to talk about it, honestly. And I may disagree with me,

[00:31:38] Alex Tsakiris: disagree with you. I just think there’s. You’re trying to say a bunch of different things, kind of all at once, which I realize you have to, because that’s the nature of this topic.

So on one hand, you’re saying, Hey, the government has to protect us. And people hate when they hear that, you know, but it’s true. You know, that it’s true. I mean, on one level, that’s their fundamental responsibility is, Hey, the Huns are coming over the hill and you know, they don’t give a shit. They’re just going to do their thing and we’ve got to protect that.

But then we also would love to believe that we don’t need to be protected from the truth. You know, the, you can’t handle the truth. You can’t, you don’t deserve the truth kind of thing, which is kind of a playoff. And there’s plenty of evidence that we do. We cannot handle the truth and that there’s a role to play there as well.

So we get that. But now when we’re talking you and I we’re like, oh, Pardon me. I can’t handle the truth. So I want the truth. So the truth, you know, like Melinda, Leslie. Okay. My lab thing don’t know. I agree with you up in the air on that, but if you just start stacking the evidence for burden of proof, I mean go to, uh, Richard Dolan, who you interviewed here along with grant Cameron, I’ve had plenty of interviews with grant Cameron, great guy.

He’s kind of gone overboard on the consciousness thing without really understanding, I think fundamentally what it’s about, but nonetheless, but Dolan, the interesting thing about Dolan is right. He was kind of play in the straight line of the historian Tilly Mary’s Mrs. Dolan. And Mrs. Dolan says, no, man, I was raped by the fucking aliens.

You know what I mean? And he knows her and loves and loves her and sleeps in the same bed with her. And she’s per sounds pretty credible and he’s pretty credible. And he’s listened to enough of those stories with abductees. And he’s like, no, that’s real. That stuff is happening. So if that stuff is happening, unless Dolan is just full of crap.

And then where are we to understand Melinda Leslie and you know, the other interesting thing about, uh, switching around for a minute. So that would be kind of question one. And that leads to the, I think the deeper question of goodie tea versus batty tea, you know, and just like. Good MK ultra versus bad MK ultra.

If, if you can, you know, some of that was maybe for a good purpose, let’s understand it because it could mind control could be happening to our soldiers could be happening to our American citizens. So MK, ultra let’s figure out what it is and then the bad part of it, the evil part of it is, Hey, why we’re at it?

Why don’t we weaponize it so we can do it to all these people? Well, why would we assume that, that, that isn’t going on here? We would have to assume that it is until proven otherwise. So kind of bounce around with a lot of things. What do you make of the Dolans and, and Richard Dolan coming around to, yes, that’s about abduction and yes, people are being forced to do kind of some pretty nasty stuff with.

That’s his account, right?

[00:34:59] Luis Jimenez: That’s his account. I mean, I, I there’s, no, there’s no proof for it. There’s no proof of it. There’s no study. No other than, you

[00:35:10] Alex Tsakiris: know, well, there’s this study, do you know Ray Hernandez, uh, with, uh, the Edgar Mitchell foundation down there in Miami. I mean,

he’s.

[00:35:24] Alex Tsakiris: Super sharp guy, uh, attorney IRS attorney, also a PhD and, or he’s getting his PhD, just very, very smart guy.

The first large scale study of contact experience done in a scientific way. Leo sprinkle was a scientist designed it, a great grant. Cameron totally hooked into those guys, uh, and knows all those guys. So no, the data is yes. And the Taita, you know, consistently has come back. Yes, yes, yes. So when you say there’s, there’s no evidence for it?

, it’s like saying there’s no evidence for a near-death experience.

[00:36:02] Luis Jimenez: here’s, here’s my thing. Right? That information is out there. It’s not changing the zeitgeists. It’s not, it’s not convincing lawmakers. It’s not convincing academia. It’s not convincing the soccer mall. It’s not compelling enough to get the entire world talking about it like a Sopranos episode or, you know, the last episode of game of Thrones or whatever.

I think when this topic is in 60 minutes, it gets on that level. I think when this topic is discussed in the Atlantic or any one of these high brown magazines, high society magazines it’s being discussed and it’s being taken seriously now, um, I think when you hear conversations between say ALEKS Friedman and, uh, Gary Nolan, who were both PhDs and looking at different aspects of consciousnesses, And then you hear about Gary Nolan, every single one of his speaking engagements that he goes to at these universities, after the engagements, there’s a dinner.

And at these dinners, at some point, this conversation comes up and then he gives his point of view. And one of two things happens, usually the entire table chimes in with their own stories or people they know that saw something crazy or have even experienced something. And then it becomes a safety in numbers.

At that table or after the, uh, the dinner, someone will come up to him privately and give him an account. And these are smart people. These are very credible people. They’re either IRS attorneys, they’re doctors, they’re lawyers, they’re they come from all walks of life. I’m not saying that the proof is not there.

What do I am saying though, is that academia has, hasn’t taken it seriously enough to legitimately try and start to answer what people are dealing with from a, from a, especially a PTSD standpoint. Like there are, there are accounts, there are, people are really experiencing things. And I don’t want to write that stuff off.

I think it’s valid, but again, how do we take these stories and translate them to the bigger, uh, uh, community at large, the community that doesn’t look into this stuff, the community that doesn’t research. That’s where I’m trying to get this conversation too. I’m trying to get my mom and my sister and my, and my dad’s to call me every day going, Hey, did you hear about this?

What about this? What about this? I think that would be an exciting place to be. Um, but all say is I’m not doubting the research or the work of the Dolans and the Melinda lesbians. I’m not saying they’re wires, but what I’m saying is, is the data that they’ve put on the table so far in that, in some cases they’ve presented in a mock congressional setting in front of real lawmakers, hasn’t moved the needle.

At all. And now you get this 2017 article. You get this guy from the government saying these things are real. You get lawmakers starting to write laws. And those are the things that are moving the needle. It’s not, it’s not these stories of abductions are these, um, you know, in some cases have concocted experiments on, on what we’re looking or trying to figure out.

Like, I think just labeling this thing is ITI is incredibly naive. How do we know that? How do we know it’s ITI? How do we know it’s coming from another planet? How do we know it’s coming here in a vehicle? Is that even the best mode of transportation for something that can think telepathically and communicate, you know, like I just.

I think again, this there’s, nobody has the right answer on this. Nobody knows anything. And I think that’s the trepidation. And if you’re inexperienced or specially inexperienced or with high status within society, you’re never going to talk about this. Uh, because it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s so much stigma that comes with it.

There’s so much fear of losing your status. If you become one of the people who seen or experienced these things, we’re still there. We’ve got a long way to go. And so that’s why I understand why if the government looks at this and I’m like, we have no fucking clue what we’re looking at. And that’s a very honest answer, but I don’t think from their perspective, that’s an answer they want to reveal.

They don’t want to tell you that they don’t.

[00:40:34] Alex Tsakiris: So when you talk to grant, Cameron, did you guys talk about the Wilbert Smith memo in Canada? Did he give you that whole thing?

[00:40:44] Luis Jimenez: I don’t know if you gave us the Wilbert Smith memo. Um, because it was a panel of people and we had a discussion over a year ago. I, it doesn’t ring a bell, so many interviews.

We were doing three interviews a day. That’s why we’re going down to one a week.

[00:41:01] Alex Tsakiris: You can do one a week.

[00:41:03] Luis Jimenez: Yeah. We’re going down to one a week from three a week, you know, it’s it’s it’s it’s labor-intensive oh, yeah. To book three guests a week. It’s a lot of work. You’re talking about 16 guests a month.

That’s 12, you know, it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work. So yeah,

[00:41:22] Alex Tsakiris: like I said, how this working man, and, and

[00:41:26] Luis Jimenez: so sometimes it’s difficult for me to sort of go through rifle through the file of interviews. And, oh, did we talk about that? It’s possible. Yeah, we may have, but honestly don’t remember.

[00:41:37] Alex Tsakiris: And briefly, so grand Cameron is from Canada and he had a contact experience like you did in Winnipeg.

And it was kind of all over the news. And he said it went on for months and everyone would kind of get in the car and drive around and see if you could see the lights, you know, so he saw the lights and then he had. Contact experience that you said you’re aware of you didn’t have in your case, but it was like more than just seeing it.

You know, there was something that happened. It’s not like he remembers being onboard the ship anyways, that sparks his interest in it. He starts looking at FOYA stuff, they call it something different in Canada. But one of the things that shakes out of it is the Wilbert Smith memo. So Wilbert Smith is the guy in charge of the, the weird desk for Canada in the 1950s.

Like everything that happens in the sky, this guy’s responsible for. And at some point he goes to the prime minister and he goes, Hey, there’s shit happening out there. And let’s go down and see what the yanks know. So he goes, okay, go. So he goes down and. Meets with Vannevar Bush. He meets with all the other, right?

Right. People, whether you believe in the air VRE, MJ 12, or whether you don’t, he meets with a lot of those people, he comes back. He writes this memo to the Canadian government, the prime minister, whoever, and says, look, this shit’s real. It is the highest priority of the United States government, most secret higher than the hydrogen bomb.

And then he says this thing, he says, and there’s a mental aspect to it that they’re looking into, which is the consciousness thing. And see, that’s why grant is big in the consciousness grant is like, forget the nuts and bolts. That’s just the distraction. Look at near death experience. Look at remote viewing.

Look at psychic phenomenon. Somewhere in there is the answer kind of like a shock valet kind of thing. But at the same time, don’t look away from that. This ties directly into the MK ultra stuff, at least in Grant’s mine. I think he’s spot on. We look at MK ultra as mine control, as you know, our soldiers in Korea might be being mind controlled maybe, but it was also about.

What’s ITI doing in this extended consciousness space. We better know because that’s we in the fifties, they knew that there was something happening. Like you said, telepathy, mind control you. Don’t when tic TAC hap, when Tik TOK happens and they meet, you know, they go to the secret spot in the sky they’re supposed to meet and there is.

E T there is a tick tock already there because it’s kind of this collective consciousness kind of thing. So they knew about that shit back in the fifties, fifties, 1950s, 70 years ago. So that’s what makes it hard for me to stomach. You know, it Lou Elizondo, oh, it’s a threat to our skies and we don’t know what’s going on up there.

Hey bro. Full fucking disclosure. If you don’t, if you’re Lou Elizondo and you don’t know who John Alexander is, go look, the dude up, he lives out there in the desert. You’ll find him Richard Dodi, go look them up, find out who committed those criminal acts so we can get all the shit straightened out before we just kind of jump on your latest, what this really means kind of thing.

Let’s get everyone on board with my story. Let’s clean out the closet a little bit.

[00:45:21] Luis Jimenez: I feel your frustration. , I think again, the part of the reason I want to address two things, part are part of the reason why that closet hasn’t been cleaned out is imagine if since the fifties you’ve poked and prodded, and you’ve tried to gain understanding of this phenomenon and you failed for the last 50, 60 years to get any sort of understanding or explanation, uh, possibly dollars have been spent into, into trying to get those answers and is produced nothing but more confusion.

The fact that it’s real is still true, but the explanation of what is behind that real phenomenon is still very mysterious. And so again, I can understand. Why government would, why want to not talk about that? Because all of the questions that you’re going to spit at them, they’re not, they’re really not going to have answers to.

And it’s, there’s no, it’s a no win position for the government to say that it’s a no one position. Like they come out and they say, yeah, this there’s lights in the sky. Sometimes they’re mechanical. We think they’re being piloted by things. We have no idea what those things are. Maybe, maybe we recovered a couple of them, but we still don’t know where they come from or who they are, what their motives are.

Um, there, there are multitude of things that they would not have answers for that I think would, would be. I would understand. I don’t agree with it because I’m saying I understand it doesn’t mean I agree with it, but I understand how a lot of people within that security apparatus would be like, just shut the fuck up about it.

We would, mum is the word, mum is the word we’re not going to talk about. Um, and, and then the other thing I wanted to address was your, your, the idea of Lou Elizondo saying that these are threats. I think you’re right. Both Christopher melon and Lou Elizondo were very much pitching this thing as a threat to national security, right.

That was something that kept coming up over and over and over again. And I think the community reacted to that. They didn’t like the idea that you’re calling this thing a threat, especially if it’s an unknown. And I think they pivoted, they changed the name of the office from the advanced aerospace threat identification program, uh, to, um, What did they change it to, oh my God, I’m drawing a blank.

Uh,

[00:47:49] Alex Tsakiris: we get the point. But,

[00:47:51] Luis Jimenez: but, and that, that’s the idea of it being a threat hasn’t been discussed in about three to four years.

[00:48:01] Alex Tsakiris: Exactly. I mean, what are we, how they’re spinning it today? I mean, it’s still, it’s still a Pentagon run program. Just consider this Lou, what if it’s the opposite of what you said? Oh, we’ve been poking around it for 70 years and it’s always failed and we don’t know what the hell it is.

What if it’s the opposite? What if they know what it is? What if they have a really, really good handle on what it is? How does the whole thing look then? You know, I go back to the Stargate thing, remote viewing thing, because that’s connected to this too, you know, Stargate, remote viewing. Okay. So, you know, in Ingo, Swann is the guy who really, I guess you could say discovered or created remote viewing.

He’s a psychic. And then he said, if I have to train other people how to do that, that’s the, here’s how I’ll do it kind of thing. But they were remote viewing the moon. They were remote viewing Mars. They were seeing aliens. They were all this stuff. And at the same time, there were remote viewing Russian subs and they were getting good results that were remote viewing loss Plains in Africa, and what they saw turned out to be real.

So we don’t know how all that stuff works, but what if it’s not a failed 70 year thing? What if it’s a pretty damn successful 70 year thing? Doesn’t that put a whole different spin on the, oh my gosh. Let’s tell you what it is now.

[00:49:31] Luis Jimenez: Um, depends on how much information they have, you know, like again, I think the biggest concern for a military is not looking foolish.

So ha it let’s say that is true. Let’s say they do have 70 years of information that proves undoubtedly or everything that we think is happening is actually happening. Um, how do you release that information responsibly?

[00:49:59] Alex Tsakiris: Excellent point with you 100% on that,

[00:50:02] Luis Jimenez: you know, like, and so I think they’re in a conundrum, they’re in a really tough spot. The, on one hand they’re they’re vilified and crucified for being the government because they lie and they cheat, they steal, they start wars and a lot of them are full of shit, but that’s like painting the entire planet, right.

Because what is it? There’s 1600 billionaires in this country that control three quarters of the world’s wealth. Like, could we point to those 1600 people and use that as a representation of all of earth? No. So I don’t think it’s fair to take, and we don’t know what the percentage of this government is that could be hiding this kind of information if they are hiding it.

But I don’t think it’s fair to label the rest of the government because this, this entity is acting in a rogue fashion because they simply don’t know what to do. It is. It is a, uh, uh, a Pandora’s box. And I think that’s, we just, again, I think it’s the perfect reason to just shut up, not say anything about it, and maybe this idea of getting scientists and lawmakers on board and slowly, if it does feel like a drip I’ll I will agree with anybody there the last, especially five years.

[00:51:30] Alex Tsakiris: It’s not that it seems like a drip, it seems like an app. And what you’re saying well, but as you point out and opt for exactly what you said, I think you framed it up perfectly. In my opinion, that’s what makes the most sense is like, and I love that you did that. It’s like, no, wait a minute, put your.

In their shoes. What the fuck are they supposed to do at the end of the day? I want you on that wall. I need you on that wall kind of thing. Right? We do want them, we have other threats in other allies, whether the 80 is our ally or a threat, whatever we got, China is a real thing. China, isn’t looking to, they have their own interests, their own perspective.

And there’s different factions within China that do that same with every other country and every other thing. So it’s a big world. It’s a complicated world. And that’s your point. And then we’re looking to our government collectively to kind of manage that in some way that can only be managed by that big collective.

Totally get your point, you know, in that, but. Our job, it would seem to me, Lou is to keep pushing for the fucking truth. , your sister can handle the truth. Hey, that’s okay. I get that. There’s a lot of people that can handle all sorts of different truths about religion, about politics, about the way the world works.

I I’m not judging them. I’m just saying for me, I’m going to keep pushing for the truth

[00:53:01] Luis Jimenez: yeah. Well, I mean, but you say it’s an art. What is it? What is the objective of the app? It’s.

[00:53:08] Alex Tsakiris: Well, if it’s an op and if it’s a good op, then we’ll never fucking know the objective. I mean, this is, you know, like w you had, , Chris Lambright on the show again, I’m going to pull that up. Like the amazing thing about Chris Lambright is it shows the extent to which you have to go to even begin to uncover the op, right?

Because his whole thing is on the back to the Paul Benowitz thing. And Paul Benowitz is this American citizen. He gets interested in UFO’s. He buys some super high quality cameras. He’s got a bunch of them set up on his roof and he starts looking at shit that’s happening in Kirkland air force base.

Cause he lives right across from Kirkland. What happens is then he goes, and he says, again, American citizen, Hey, this stuff is happening. Who’s the first guy who knocks on his door kind of to your point, is it a researcher? Is it a scientist? Is it a guy who’s in charge of a security and says, Hey, you know, let’s find out what.

No man, co Intel pro it’s Richard Doty. Counter-intelligence, that’s the first guy that shows up and then like our community. I’m not really part of the UFO community, but the upshot of that whole thing is, , the Mirage men. They totally got the fucking story wrong because Dodi’s cover story was well, Paul.

Saw stealth bombers and other shit that he shouldn’t have seen. And that’s why we had to feed them all this information that by your guests, and again, you interviewed them and did a great job with it. Uh, Chris Lambright totally blows that out of the water. So it’s unraveling the layers of like, so that’s an op that was an op, like Dody has outed himself and said, we ran an op an illegal op by the way that he should be in jail for, in his shoe, superiors should be in jail for you.

Can’t do that. You can’t go take somebody and put them through the American citizen who hasn’t committed any crime and run them through the ringer and go give them false information to run him crazy and do all the rest. You can’t do it. It’s. But he exposes the opera. Richard Doty exposes the app, but to this day he just covers it up with another op.

So when you asked me what’s the op that Lou is playing, Lou is a master. I mean, he is a smart fricking guy, maybe 20 years from now. We can look back and have some clue of what the op was, but we certainly ain’t going to figure it out. Those guys a lot smarter than I am in terms of running

[00:55:55] Luis Jimenez: an up. Well, I just think if it’s an op it’s the first op that’s ever, , inspired lawmakers to look and talk about this publicly, uh, That’s that’s the, I think the difference for me is that you’ve got lawmakers who are genuinely curious about this and you can’t control how they, you

[00:56:19] Alex Tsakiris: gotta stop saying lawmakers, man, you gotta, I mean, no one buys that because it it’s, it’s, it’s so bullshitty our, our Congress, our, our idea of making laws.

I mean, in, in what we’ve gone through in the last two years and all the, and all the stuff that’s been exposed. Yeah. There’s some guys up there and there’s something going on that seems to be of a political nature. But this idea that there’s this intact Republic where legal the Supreme court all. Yeah. I mean, no one believes that any of that shit is functioning to the level that we used to believe that it does.

Right.

[00:57:01] Luis Jimenez: When is it ever exactly

[00:57:04] Alex Tsakiris: twas ever thus yes.

[00:57:08] Luis Jimenez: You know, but with that said, it’s the best we got. It’s the best we got. So I’ve just got to deal with what is put in front of me. And so when I see congressional lawmakers who are on top level security committees, going into classified briefings, and then coming out and writing legislation that is specifically asking the all branches of the military for more information and more clarity on the top.

Unidentified aerial phenomenon. I think that is not an op I think that’s genuine curiosity after being exposed to some fantastic information. That’s what I think that is. And we can sit here and discuss until we’re blue in the face, how broken the system is, but that’s the only piece of legislation that I’ve seen in a while where both sides of the aisle voted on it and passed it with almost zero resistance from anyone.

And I don’t think you need to make up a fantastic UFO story or office or anything to get congressional funding for, for the war machine. Like they’re going to get their funding no matter what every year the funding for the war machine goes up with or without UFO. So what I see these lawmakers. Going into these meetings and coming out and writing legislation, but not, but also the legislation is written in a way that holds these apparatus accountable if they don’t cooperate, but we don’t know how that’s going to turn out because the office literally is being made.

As we speak, we have to be patient. It is a process that is not perfect. Never has been, and it never will be many have tried to make the perfect government. It doesn’t, it doesn’t exist. It doesn’t, it doesn’t represent everyone. I mean, look at our own domestic issues that we have, especially here in California.

We have a homeless epidemic. It’s literally on my front doorstep. I walk out to it and you could, you could cut if you cut one. Just one jet out of the budget and put that and not just want to use one one time. And that’s it. One jet every year for life, you cut out of the budget and you put that towards solving the homeless crisis in the United States, you

[00:59:47] Alex Tsakiris: saw.

Well, what does that, what does that tell you? What does that tell you? Hey, well, I

[00:59:52] Luis Jimenez: hear you. I hear you, man. I hear you. It’s not perfect, but I’m going to, I’m going to fight to try and get more data from the collection agencies that I know have the data. And I know I’m going to run into a lot of roadblocks.

I’m the, I’m going to get a lot of obfuscation, but every once in a while, we’re going to get a really good nugget from them. They’re going to slip up, especially through the foyer process and through requesting and calling these lawmakers and being a pester to them and asking questions and demanding that they give us answers every year and asking for public hearings and asking for things that we know we should get.

But I believe that yes, that, that Republic is still intact. I believe that that process as terrible as it is at some levels still works. Um, if I did it, I wouldn’t live here.

[01:00:40] Alex Tsakiris: And then that’s, that’s awesome. I totally, totally commend you and agree with you at a fundamental level. It’s like. The only possible way out.

Is to believe the ideals is to believe, you know, a force for good, you know, the Navy used to run those ads a long time ago. They’ve changed the byline now, but it used to be the big Naval ship out in the water burning way, billions of dollars rather than take it. But, but the tagline was a force for good.

And I think I love that idealism that you have because it’s our only way out is to maintain, hold them accountable to what we’re supposed to be, what, what the Republic is supposed to do. And that’s what I hear you saying. You’ve been super open. I mean, you don’t Dodge one kind of thing. And one question, tell us, so you’re going to reboot a little bit, you know, just restart the show the end of this month, where are you going with it?

What’s coming up big phone home campaign. How did that go? What’s the next, the next run of that what’s going

[01:01:44] Luis Jimenez: on? Um, well, so that’s great. Cause we had a production meeting yesterday. Um, The, um, we’re going to be, yeah, we took a break for the last month. And, um, just because, you know, it’s not just me that does the show.

I have two other co-hosts, I’ve got a producer, I’ve got this, a bunch of other people that helped me do the show. And so asking these guys to volunteer their time three days a week, two hours a day, that’s a lot of time. Um, and I didn’t want to burn anybody out. I didn’t want to burn myself out. So we decided to, Hey, let’s take this three show a week schedule.

Let’s knock it down to one. And, and we’ll still be doing other episodes about other things in between those one a week episodes. Um, So, yeah, we’re going to be doing really cool segments. We’ve come up with a lot of funny stuff. Uh, you know, obviously things like, you know, UFO video the week,

[01:02:38] Alex Tsakiris: Who do you get coming up?

[01:02:39] Luis Jimenez: So, first, first episode back, we’re going to have Brandon fetal a second episode. We’re going to be having Steven Green street. Uh, we’re looking, working on a few other, um, uh, guests that I’ve confirmed that should confirm here in the next day or two who’s. Uh, the actor from flight of the Conchords really, really funny guy.

They fully, um, uh, we’ll be having ABI low back. We’ll be, we’ll be really catering the discussion to, um, The sort of the scientific and political aspect of discussions. And then of course we’ll be breaking down daily news or any sort of current events that happens around the topic. Um, so yeah, I mean, that’s basically the new format of the show.

Uh, you know, we’ll, we’ll be doing interviews for an hour opening up the second hour to, uh, to talk about other things, current events, and also just, uh, different segments that, uh, ideas that we’ve, that we’re coming up with and just add a little bit of a production, more production level to the overall. Um, you know, the thing, the thing that I, you know, being an actor I’ve written, I’ve directed, I’ve produced things, I’ve edited things.

Um, you know, I’m, I’m really a big, big advocate of making sure that the show always looks good. Sounds good. Is, is entertaining and fun. So, um, with more time during the week to be able to edit things and think of different ideas and different, uh, work on different initiatives, like the big phone home, um, and, uh, and things like that.

So, so, yeah, so that’s basically what I’ve been doing for the last month. It’s just relaxing and sort of thinking of how to read you the show. So that’s, that’s the way we’re going to be doing it. And then, um, I think we’ve come up with a date for the big photo of three, which is tentatively August 19th, Friday, August 19th, 2020.

Uh, we’ll be doing another big phone home event. And, and just to give you a little bit of, especially for the, the naysayers, oh, writing your representatives, calling your representatives, it never does anything. It never changes anything. I’ll remind you. In 2013, when president Obama was thinking about putting boots on the ground in Syria and people were super fatigued of war in Iraq, especially, um, they were contemplating about putting more troops in Syria.

And what happened? Do you remember what happened? The American people were so pissed off at the idea of putting troops in Syria that they called and they wrote their representatives. And guess what happened? Not one single us soldier was put in Syria, you know, like they, they, the idea that the many of us.

Have we do have the power when it comes to, to foreign policy and domestic policy. We just very, very, very rarely choose to flex that power until it’s important to us.

[01:05:43] Alex Tsakiris: Well, like we’re saying whether we do or not, we have to act as if we do, because there really is no other options. So, uh, yeah. Other

[01:05:51] Luis Jimenez: than yelling, other than yelling into a hurricane, yeah.

There are no other options, you know, like they, this is, this is, these are the tools in the system that has been put in place. They were put in long before any of us got here and they’ll run long after we’re gone and Dustin the ground, um, or different versions of it. Uh, but you know, we gotta work with what we got.

That’s that’s the best I can do.

[01:06:16] Alex Tsakiris: Great. Well, good luck. Be watching you, cheering you on and uh, thanks so much for doing this.

[01:06:23] Luis Jimenez: Yeah, absolutely. It was an absolute pleasure. A very fun.

[01:06:27] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks again to Lou for joining me today on skeptical. The one question I tee up from this interview Is it possible that this thin veneer of a story that’s being offered up regarding UFO’s and E T

Is really in the interest of the greater good, or at least the greater good of the good old us of a,

Let me know your thoughts. And until next time, take care and bye for now.

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