Rich Giordano, UFO Hoaxes And/Or Ops |550|


Rich Giordano is a long-time UFO investigator and the creator and host of GUFON.


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Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of Skeptiko a show about liars.

[00:00:07] Rich Giordano: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, of course he is. if anybody knows what counter-intelligence is, it’s not just about, vying to get information, it’s a chess game. And he says he hates to lose.

Or maybe it’s a show about truth tellers.

[00:00:26] Clip: What is. Uh, and I’m, I’m actually being serious here is, is that, uh, there are, uh, there’s footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.

Stick around my inside baseball, deep dive into UFO’s with my excellent guests. Rich, your Dano. Is coming up next. Unskeptical.

[00:00:55] Alex Tsakiris: Welcome to skeptical where we explore controversial science and spirituality , with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex . And today we welcome rich. Your Dano to skeptical is the creator of . Let me read this the most original and entertaining show in its field of research.

A show that mixes the good, the bad of both the paranormal community in the UFO field. And I know all that is true because rich wrote it on his Patrion page. So, but, but he is great. Great. I’m super excited about this show. , I think that it’s going to be a fun one. Rich does offer a unique perspective.

He’s one of these guys who does kind of like may follow the data where he thinks it needs to go. And he’s pretty unedited unreserved in terms of what he thinks that means. But I appreciate that. And I appreciate what I sense is a, just a deep pursuit of the truth and wanting to know what things really are so rich.

Terrific. Having you on. Thanks so much for journey.

[00:02:10] Rich Giordano: Oh yeah. Thanks for having me. This is great. I’m surprised we haven’t done it sooner.

[00:02:16] Alex Tsakiris: , yeah. I, Hey, I had to find you, man. I had to find you, but I found you in such an interesting way in my own stumbling and bumbling and being duped, which I do get duped. I get duped all the time and I try not to get duped, but I do ultimately get duped. So that’s going to be one of the things that we’re going to talk about today, but we have to start with give people a background on yourself on goofy fun, and what you’ve been doing in this field for quite a while.


[00:02:47] Rich Giordano: Since 2004. Yeah. It’s uh, started out because I saw something, well, I’m not going to go back into it. Let’s just say this, that I’ve had a lifelong history of in, in being interested in UFO’s the paranormal in general, even and things like that. So I started a show in 2005 called the AC UFO show and it went right through the roof and it was popular immediately in blog talk radio.

And I just wanted to talk about my stuff, my experiences, not knowing I was getting into really doing a live show like that and, uh, hooked up with this guy in Arizona, named Jeff Willis. And we created the show and, and off we went found out just through, uh, by accident, uh, that there’s people. And I would’ve found out anyway, but are not as honest as you would think.

Especially people who have number one websites, radio shows and so on. So it kind of got. Put on this track to find the truth about what goes on behind the scenes that you follow the G and a, and the crusade has been going on ever since the truth is what matters is, is more interesting than lying about things.

I think, I think the world is more paranormal than normal. I go on that where the truth is good enough for this field. And that’s what I do. I find people and, and their sightings and,

Yeah, and believe me, I’ve got over 20,000 hours the camera, holding a camera and actually UFO hunting and stuff like that.

So I know what I’m doing. Uh, I know how to read video, analyze it. people generally just make miss identity. You know, they misidentify what they see. Not a lot of hoaxers out there, like there used to be, but still out there. Excuse me. So, you know, this field has gotten a little bit more difficult.

Um, the drones have really played a big part in it in the last five to six years, because a lot of things look like drones now. And, uh, the tic-tac is super popular as you know, everything seems to be a tick tech. Um, but, uh, it’s, it’s really about the people in the field and the evidence and their stories and trying to break down.

What’s really going on.

[00:05:10] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, I think the people are super interesting. And I think there’s a lot of crossover when we start talking about people and motives and ulterior motives and deception and misinformation and disinformation. I think there’s a lot of crossover with a lot of other fields, you talk about the UFO field in the UFO community, which you are a part of, but at the same time, I see you bleeding over into other communities.

I see you doing a show on near death experience. Cause you go, Hey, this seems to be kind of connecting in consciousness or Stephen Greer, you know, is being interviewed by your buddy over there at their phase. And you know, he’s all about consciousness and there’s a bunch of other people. So that’s more of the domain that I started in because I am, I don’t consider myself.

Part of the UFO community. But when I look back at the number of people that I’ve interviewed in the UFO community, I’ve interviewed a lot of them, but I always just approached it as, Hey, I want to answer the biggest questions about life. Who am I, why am I here? And I start doing that and drawn into UFO’s.

So I don’t know when people look at, in kind of still a little bit demeaning about the UFO community. I’m always like, what the fuck you talking about? How is that not on your list of one of the top, most important things to resolve one way or another. And now, you know, we’re in a post disclosure world, whatever that means we are in a mode where our beloved government has come out and said, oh no, this is totally real.

So I just, we can pull that apart too, but I just don’t know how people kind of sometimes normies kind of get this attitude about the UFO community. The one thing we can say about the UFO community is they were right. They were right. All along. That’s kind of, that’s the, that’s the headline from the last few years.

What do you think about in general that the UFO community, are you feeling identification with the UFO.

[00:07:24] Rich Giordano: Uh, if you’re asking me how I, how I view the UFO community now, ,

[00:07:29] Alex Tsakiris: , does that mean to you? When I say UFO


[00:07:32] Rich Giordano: what it means is it’s people who generally have an interest in UFO’s. Alien abductions, mutilations, you know, things that are related to the field. Now consciousness making its way into the field where people have been talking about this for years, especially Greer. been talking about it forever and grant Cameron and many others who were laughed at.

And I, and I said, what are you about? You know, aliens, you can’t talk to aliens your mind. You can’t because I can’t do it. And Lord knows I’ve tried. And, uh, so it, the community is people that are interested in the same things that are all tied into what I just said. Aliens, cattle, mutilations UFO’s.

And that’s it. And the consciousness thing is something that. Wow. We just heard Lou Elizondo say it might be about consciousness and he was never talking like that. He was talking how UFO’s, we’re a threat and we need to find out what they are, where they are, you know, how they got here, what do they want?

And we don’t have the technology to do it. And now he switched to where he’s saying, very possible. We can actually with these things through consciousness, maybe possible, possible, psychic connections, maybe remote viewing. So it’s an interesting turn. And the community’s really pulling on that and going with it, which surprises me, but it doesn’t because we go through ups and downs throughout the years and I’m almost in this 20 years and you know, this’ll pass to something else will come up.

[00:09:16] Alex Tsakiris: yeah, I wonder, I mean, there’s so many ways to pull this thing apart and, uh,

[00:09:22] Rich Giordano: I know.

[00:09:22] Alex Tsakiris: just got to kind of flow with it as it goes.

[00:09:25] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:09:26] Alex Tsakiris: me is Elizondo looks like Richard Doty 2.0, to me. I

[00:09:31] Rich Giordano: Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:32] Alex Tsakiris: disinformation misinformation. So from, from get-go, you know, so why would we, why would we possibly trust anything that Lou Elizondo says he’s a professional liar.

I mean, that’s, if he asks him for his business card, that’s what it says. I’m a spy for the United States government. That’s what I’ve been my whole life. My job is to lie either on your behalf, as an American citizen or sometimes against you. so what concerns me is that when these guys start picking up on.

The narrative that I know is true, like consciousness and that whole thing. The reason that’s true is because that’s what the best scientific evidence shows, right? If you put it in the lab and you, what the physicist said 100 years ago, the observer effect, double slit experiment, consciousness affects the outside world, or perhaps consciousness is fundamental.

You looked at near death experience. You looked at when people throw around remote viewing, which always amazes me because when people in the quote, unquote, UFO community talk about remote viewing, they talk about it as if it’s something other than consciousness thing.

I mean, you can’t accept believe whatever in remote viewing in the Sri Stargate thing, which is like, well, established history. You can’t believe that instill question. The consciousness thing. That is the consciousness thing, right?

[00:11:02] Rich Giordano: I guess, so I have a hard time with it, but I guess, I guess it is. Yeah. You know, to people claiming they can communicate with aliens is tough one for me, because I tried it almost every day for four years and I’ve gotten nowhere. Now I say that, but then again, I had some incredible experiences soon after that, which were, I consider dreams, lucid dreams at that, where you wake up and you think you’re up and something happens.

You see an alien at the end of the bed or something whispers in your ear. You know, I’ll be in your head before you wake up, you know? So you have these things that just draw you back in. It’s like, how did that happen? You know, why did that happen? And never having the evidence to back it up, you know, I couldn’t record it.

You know, things just happen they happen. And that’s the thing, that’s the problem I have when we’re talking about consciousness, because things seem to happen when you least expect it, at least for me, so I could be wrong. And I, and I accept that. need to know what everybody else is doing. How are they making these connections or are they all by.

[00:12:18] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, I don’t want to get too sidetracked, but I mean, this is like fundamental to me because like the position of science, mainstream science, which I think is OSI up, by the way I’ll preface, that is that consciousness is an illusion. The, you rich are a product of your brain. You’re an epic phenomenon of your brain.

Your brain is this little body of Jell-O up there. That’s firing off. And that’s all there is. And whatever you’re making of that little story is just fake. Cause it’s just the firing of your brain. So remote viewing contradicts that it fundamentally shifts that paradigm, it falsifies it, it says, okay though, that can no longer be true.

So everything that neuroscience has said that your brain is just your brain and it’s physical and it doesn’t create this consciousness, all that goes away when you have remote viewing that violates space and time. And I think a lot of people don’t exactly make that connection. And then I’ve also heard you talk about near-death experience a little bit. I mean, I don’t want to go there too much, but I got a, a hundred shows on near death experience with some of the top leading researchers, you know, Cardiologists 20 years, you know, published in the Lancet 200 peer reviewed papers across the board. That stuff is, is also just real. But again, there’s this battle scientifically, because for that to be real than a lot of other things that science likes to hold on to are false, but what I want to bring it back to in the UFO thing, when you say, I don’t believe people are talking to aliens through consciousness.

Okay. All right. But if we accept that consciousness is in play now, and that it is somehow fundamental to this whole thing, then I think it just kind of changes the equation and it, the burden of proof shifts. Okay.

[00:14:30] Rich Giordano: Well, because I’ve asked people how to do it. I bought books on it. I’ve tried Greer’s methods and even Greer says, you know, if it doesn’t happen to you, you know, within five or six, you know, times of trying, just keep trying, it might go. Okay. Yeah. Because by then you’ll feel stupid and you won’t want to continue.

I get it. Yeah. And I don’t think just because it’s part of our,


uh, conversation now it’s valid because I’m still having a hard time tracking. To get that connection and I’ve done remote viewing and I consider myself an empath and somewhat have the ability to say, you know, that have psychic abilities.

You know what I mean? I mean, there’s a lot of strange things and a lot of coincidences and


that I can’t deny and I’ve done it on the show and we’ve had extremely good results with it. Um, so you know, it’s not that I don’t believe it. It’s just hard for me to believe it if I can’t do it. And just because it’s part of the conversation doesn’t mean it’s valid, don’t you? Don’t you think so, just because everybody’s talking about it, it’s just something new to talk about, I think, but where are these, uh, people that are doing it over and over again and how are they doing it? And I’m not just taking Greer’s word for it.

[00:15:56] Alex Tsakiris: And you’re kind of jumping to the,

[00:16:00] Rich Giordano: Yeah, I know.

[00:16:01] Alex Tsakiris: a lot of people do, which is like, okay, then prove it, show me and, , and show me that it’s the alien thing, you know, I kind of pull back and say, you know, where, where are we at in terms of just the way I always think of it, rich is as burden of proof, you know, where does the burden of proof lie?

And like, we’re talking about not on how you feel about Elizondo, really in Richard Doty, really. But it’s like when we have people who are proven professional liars, just information agents to me, you know, the burden of proof becomes unbelievably off the charts, overwhelming for them to establish the credibility in what they’re saying.

So that’s what I mean, like we’re going to get into, and hopefully we’ll just talk. Let me stop there before I roll on,

[00:16:54] Rich Giordano: Okay.

[00:16:55] Alex Tsakiris: a bunch of shit now about Lou Elizondo, professional liar, a professional spy, a disinformation agent or not.

[00:17:06] Rich Giordano: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, of course he is. He said it himself. , if anybody knows what counter-intelligence is, it’s not just about, you know, the, you know, detecting liars and all this other stuff and, you know, vying to get information, it’s a chess game. And he says he hates to lose. And that scares me because this guy knows how to manipulate and get what he wants.

And when he doesn’t, uh, it’s, it seems like he can be a pretty scary guy


and that we don’t need in this field.

[00:17:42] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. But beautiful. And that’s what I’d like that you’re just so plainly honest. But when we process that back into this community, or just more broadly, the conversation that we’re having about this, he is just accepted by. So, so many people in so many people that we generally think are credible and there they are with, you know, quoting Lou Elizondo or here’s what Lou has said, or, you know, here’s 60 minutes.

Not that we would ever trust 60 minutes, but to get to where you just said is a huge leap for so many people, walk them through that a little bit. So they can really get grounded in that, that the guy is fake. The guy is like you said, the guy is playing chess with you. He’s playing chess with Congress intelligence, with disinformation.

[00:18:37] Rich Giordano: Well, that’s the thing. Uh, there’s a lot of problems with Lou because he came out of nowhere. Nobody’s I never heard of the guy. And apparently he was working with a tip, which was supposedly, uh, according to when they announced him on T TSA at the presser. And, uh, he walks up on stage and introduced by DeLong he’s he’s talking about ATP in a UFO, you know, , what do you call it?

, organization secret organization to find actually UAPs, you know, government UFO’s, , That’s not. What I tip is a tip was to, to locate and find adversaries technology and our, and our security airspace. It said nothing to do with unidentified objects, that it was all about our adversaries and their technology SAP, which was, you know, like the brother of a tip apparently was the real UFO group.

they were funded a tip really wasn’t and then Lou comes out you know, tells us all this stuff about a tip and, and we’re all, you know, supposed to believe it just because he’s a government guy, when did we start believing people in the government anyway. So that’s why

[00:19:53] Alex Tsakiris: He admits.

[00:19:57] Rich Giordano: counter-intelligence. Yeah. uh, and that’s it, you go through a lot of training to become that person, but it’s also the personality they choose very carefully on what type of person would be a counter intelligence agent. They vet these people like you wouldn’t believe because have to fake, you know, a reality for the adversaries and make them think that they’re this person or that person.

So when we see Lu. And we just trust them like this. It scares me because why would you trust this person? Who’s a professional liar. What is he doing that, uh, is, is furthering disclosure. Everything he’s touched has turned to crap, that AOI MSG office that they opened up at the, you know, in the Pentagon inside the DOD has now been officially closed to the public.

They are not going to disclose anything. Now, did you hear about this? So that was supposed to be for the, they were supposed to report once a year to Congress. What they found any injuries from anybody in the government, pilots and whatnot. And now they’re saying they’re not going to disclose it at all.

It’s done.

[00:21:14] Alex Tsakiris: C C brother, you know, so much stuff. And I couldn’t go so deep because I didn’t know that I didn’t know that I’m not falling

[00:21:20] Rich Giordano: It just happened. Yeah.

[00:21:22] Alex Tsakiris: I, here, here it is for me. I’m going to pull back to Alex, getting duped, you know, do a lot of interviews. A lot of really top scientists been duped by them. Been duped by other people too.

And I don’t try and be duped and I try and get myself on duped when I can. But like I interviewed Leslie cane.

[00:21:42] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:21:43] Alex Tsakiris: I love Leslie cane. I think she’s awesome. But I’m like Leslie, you know, Leslie, so my backup, too much inside baseball, Leslie cane Ralph Blumenthal will be known as the two people who kind of broke the disclosure story.

This is December, 2017, New York times front page UFO’s are real is the big announcement. And this is what precipitates, this whole thing that we’re talking about. A tip comes out of this, the tic tech videos come out of this. The guys you’ve seen on 60 minutes, oh my God, it’s flying it, which is real, you know, it’s flying around at these speeds and all the rest of that stuff.

To put it in context, which what they’ll admit is these are the same things we’ve seen for 60 years that they said, no, no, no. And now they’re saying yes, yes, yes. So, but Leslie, I pushed her. I said, because to me like, Leslie, I go, why are you believing this number one? Why are you believing when they tell you this is unclassified L a how is this unclassified?

How does that kid who innocently takes a selfie in the submarine just to send to his girlfriend? And there’s something in the background, nothing really, nothing. He gets sent to prison, but because it’s classified and this isn’t classified, it just, the whole thing. Just the story was just so flimsy from the beginning.

But my question again, in terms of being duped, like, Leslie, are you playing me here or did you really believe that Ralph Blumenthal, veteran reporter for New York times a nice guy interviewed him on the show, wrote a book about John Mack wrote the ultimate autobiography on John Mack seems very credible.

Doesn’t seem like professional liar doesn’t have a history of being a professional liar does work for the New York times has for a long time. Same thing. Like, no, no, man, this is real, you know, we got the inside scoop. They brought us into the secret room and Lou Elizondo sat down with us and he’s a whistleblower and I’m like, How I even talked to Dolan, I haven’t talked to Richard Dolan.

I said, man, this is, this is a political PSYOP, right? I mean, come on. So here I got three people, Richard, the three people that I, I can respect. I know you don’t feel exact same way about Dolan, but that’s more complicated. Dolan. Leslie Kane wrote one of the best influential books on UFO’s pilots in generals.

Go on the record. Ralph Blumenthal, totally credible. In my opinion, all these people are falling for Lou Elizondo. How are her rich? Are you and I, the only ones who kind of go, this is obviously bullshit. I don’t, I don’t get it. That’s where I’m, I’m being duped. And I don’t understand what the bigger game.

[00:24:34] Rich Giordano: Yeah, a lot of people aren’t going to like this answer, I’m giving them it ha it all has to do with their egos. And if you hook on to Lou, Elizondo is a you will be known more and more and you will get more views clicks and, um, sell more books. And sadly, that’s what I feel. These people have gotten, uh, gotten a hold of Lou for all about, because like I was just saying a minute ago, everything, he touches doesn’t really turn out the way he thinks it’s going to work out.

And to me, is his plan from the beginning. He tells us one thing and another thing happens and it’s very frustrating. And that’s why I think these people hitch on to him. I think they liked that. He’s one of the, if not the most popular thing right now and that they can get more popular and yeah.

Dolan for whatever reason, you know, came after my channel. And we’ll get into that maybe some other time, but, uh, he’s been a part of. Not just one or two, but more. And it’s pretty sad that Richard Dolan, a historian has gotten, you know, into the hoaxing scene, but he made a lot of money interviewing a dead guy.

So whatever, and, uh, Leslie Kean, you may, you know, respect her. And I, and I kind of do too, but she’s in bed with Lou Elizondo, not literally, but you know, she’s seemingly taking his star status and making it hers. And I just feel it’s, it’s all about their egos because whatever they’re doing, isn’t working, they tried to get that room inside the, you know, the Pentagon and now it’s not what he said.

It was going to be, not that he made any promises, but we’re going to have more transparency than we ever have wrong. Didn’t happen a tip. We don’t even know if a tip was a real thing anymore. It was, but you know, they, they erased all of his emails. You know, now we can’t have any evidence where, where is Lou’s stack of work?

What is he signed off on? What does he done? I don’t have any evidence that he’s done anything. So he’s popular because he worked in the Pentagon with a tip and he sounds. He talks. Well, he’s a smart guy. He’s not dumb. I mean, the guy’s got a couple of degrees, I think, in science or chemistry or something like that.

And, um, he, he plays it well and he is paid by the government to say all this. And if you go back to, when it came out, originally, everything was a script.


what he was doing. It was scripted. And I know they have their talking points and things like that, but he wouldn’t answer certain things.

When he goes on shows, he gives you not him, but his people give you the questions. They want you to ask him. And if you go off that script, it’s, he’ll never go back on your show again. So the fact that he does that and he’s denying it, but we know for a fact, it’s true because I’m friends with people who add them on and they, you know, told them, Hey, ask this, this and this don’t go off of that.

It’ll go very well


Come on. I think everybody likes Lou because he’s popular you can get a lot of views clicks and sell books and whatever. That’s what it is with Lou. I think that’s why people love him. I don’t think they trust them. I just think they like his popularity sadly.

[00:28:17] Alex Tsakiris: well, it’s kind of interesting what you’re putting out there rich


[00:28:22] Rich Giordano: is weak. And, and I know that I

[00:28:25] Alex Tsakiris: no, no, no, no, no. I think the other way, like one of the most interesting things I think you said, which just rings so true is you think Lou Elizondo became Lou Elizondo.

[00:28:39] Rich Giordano: No

[00:28:39] Alex Tsakiris: what you, that’s what you said, like, man, these guys are, are selected trained.

They’re one they’re selected, which is something that you said that I had never thought about. I think that’s actually quite a brilliant insight reminder for all of us is that, you know, you don’t get in that job unless you have certain personality traits and those are honed and refined. the other thing, and I don’t know if you’ve thought about this, but I’d love to hear what you think is it takes a certain kind of that military intelligence mindset, psychopathic.

Some people would call it mindset. That is like, Hey, you want me on that hill? You need beyond that hill, you

[00:29:22] Rich Giordano: yeah,

[00:29:22] Alex Tsakiris: kind of And we get that on some level. Cause they’re right on some level, do want them to take care of us and we don’t care how they do it.

[00:29:33] Rich Giordano: yeah.

[00:29:34] Alex Tsakiris: level we’re like, you guys, you guys gotta obey the law and they’re like, fuck you.

You don’t really care. You just want us to do our jobs. So out of the way and let me do my job. What do you think about that? The, the psychology, the sociopathic, uh, counterintelligence aspect.

[00:29:57] Rich Giordano: More narcissistic than anything. , and I think you’re right, , do something like, you know, just go all balls out and not care. What happens just as long as you get the results is a certain personality. Maybe it is sociopathic. I’m not sure. , but need people like Lou, Maybe not in urology, without people like Lou, a lot of stuff wouldn’t get done.

, a lot of people wouldn’t charge, you know, and you know, it did, did it, did it, did it go and you know, and it takes a certain personality your life out there to put your reputation out there. And you’re just hoping that people will back you up. Even if you fail. Well, he tried really hard that’s what I’m seeing happening now with the loo, like, Hey, that office failed, but that’s Lou, he tried his best, at least he’s trying, at least he’s making us talk about UFO’s and he’s brought it to mainstream media, right?

Yeah. He’s got that persona, what do we really know about the guy? Really? I, don’t know really that much about him. , there was a movie that just came out about him, the documentary. I don’t know if you saw it. , it’s called. And it goes, this guy, Manny, , went through all public records on blue and, you know, found out, you know, he moved here and there had about 15 businesses with his father, all failed.

What were they doing? You know, these businesses only lasted a few years. There’s a certain type of person that would do this. And it’s like, get rich, quick schemes maybe, or, you know what I mean? It’s that type of personality that gung-ho who Rob personality that Lou has. And it seems like he only wants to associate with those people because we’ve invited them on this show.

Third phase of moon Greer wants to talk to him. He won’t anybody who disagrees with them and that scares me. So why does he only want to go on, uh, you know, the shows that, that kiss his ass and won’t ask the hard questions. It’s because he’s got a lot to lose in his mind and he’s got a job to do because he’s being paid by who knows who, you know, the government probably or Christopher Mellon.

But yeah, without that type of personality, you followed, you would have been a little boring the last couple of years. So I thanked the Lou for that. I thank him for his services, but he’s really not doing all that great of a job if he asked me. And that’s the scary thing. When you have somebody who has that type of personality, should you don’t know what you’re going to get.

You hope you get what you want, but there’s going to be, it’s like a, you know, China ball in a, what is that? Uh, a ball in a China shop or someone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He’s like that. That’s what he reminds me of. And amen. Uh, you know, I’ve got the discussion on mainstream media. Oh, congratulations. So the last 10 months, yeah.

There’s been nothing on mainstream media, so it’s all done. Are we done? No. Why this big sudden stop now? It’s weird. You know, Lou very frustrating because he’s all about himself, I think.

[00:33:03] Alex Tsakiris: So if we pull the lens back a little bit, and you’re doing a fantastic job of that in terms of, you know, because like I bounce around on a lot of different subjects on the show. Cause again, it’s just my trying to figure out these answers to these

[00:33:17] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:33:18] Alex Tsakiris: And I’m just go where my fucking nose leads me rather than try and follow a particular line.

Like one of the things you said just right there. And I think we did a good job at deconstructing it, which I haven’t heard a lot of people really talk about that next level is like you said, a


you know, if you’re going to have a charge that hill reality, which we do live in, then you need people like Lou.

it’s not even the personality of Lou per se. the personality of that person, which is is going to fill that role, that role, that counter-intelligence role. if I can, I there’s this whole other topic I wanted to talk about, but this is so interesting. I want to talk about Richard Dodi a lot of

[00:34:04] Rich Giordano: Hmm.

[00:34:04] Alex Tsakiris: understand when you say Richard dud, I don’t understand, you know, Richard Doty.

I understand Lou Elizondo is Richard Jody Dody 2.0, let me just plug the next one in there. You know, professional liar, professional disinformation agent professional. Counter-intelligence throws out some things that are true, but also is, you know, throws out some incredibly wild things to, you know, the ETS favorite food is strawberry ice cream kind of thing, where you’re like, whoa.

Even if I was going to entertain anything that you said before now, are you just trying to screw with me? Are you just trying to be so

[00:34:41] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:34:42] Alex Tsakiris: the top? And we’re going to talk about that again, as we get to Anjalee because I’m not so sure that Anjalee, isn’t talking about strawberry ice cream, but we’ll, we’ll get there.

But here’s where I got to call it. I mean, what is Stephen Greer doing up on stage with Richard Dodi? Why is anyone still talking to Richard Dodi? You know, I interviewed a Colonel John Alexander. I don’t believe much what he says, but when I brought up the topic of Richard Doty, he said, either he’s lying or you ought to be in Leavenworth. And that’s the one that that’s truth. He should be in prison for what he’s admitted doing. There’s no question about it. He’s admitted to crimes. So maybe the statute of limitation is over and he can’t be convicted for what he did to Paul Benowitz in the rest of them. But those are crimes. Why do we lose?

Why don’t we lose sight of that? Why do we still have this guy on, uh, on stage? Why the hell is, how is Stephen Greer credible when he’s still, when he has Richard Doty up on stage, we’ll talk in a minute about Michael McQueen. I don’t know if you know him, the sadness who was in the army for longest time.

And you know, there’s a lot of horrible people that are in have these positions in intelligence, but Steven Greer, what the hell is he doing with Richard Dodie up on stage with Richard dirty? Why is anyone talking to Richard Dodi?

[00:36:04] Rich Giordano: I don’t know. I think because they’re, they’re fascinated. He he’s talking, you know, like he was gone for a little bit, you know, and then he’s making this resurgence of course, what a time to do it when you follow GS at its all time most popular. So again, you know, Dodi’s out for Dodi, but the reason I think people like Dodie because they know what he is.

It’s like talking to somebody who used to be in the mob and they retired, you know, it’s like you get to hear all these cool stories and you know, he’s allowed to talk about, uh, maybe, I don’t know, not everything, but also still has connections. , but he’s also still a bullshit. I mean, this guy said some crazy stuff a couple of weeks ago and it just turned out to be all wrong.

And like, why would he do that? Go on a show and say this. And it’s like, it just confusing everybody. That’s typical Doty. yes, I said, uh, Lou Elizondo is Lou Dodi. Cause he is he’s Dody 2.0, just more now in mainstream and know, Twitter, Facebook, social media, all that stuff. So gets more recognition now than ever.

that’s what Dodi is. Dodie is also a professional liar and that’s what he’s doing and what he did to that. , it Paul Benowitz? She said the guy basically, uh, you know, went insane thinking he would see an aliens and whatnot, and there wasn’t and Dodie told them it was. And then the guy started freaking out.

[00:37:37] Alex Tsakiris: Greer.

[00:37:40] Rich Giordano: I don’t know. a good question. I don’t know. It’s got to be because of connections and he can give Greer some things that he needs. Yeah. And that’s what Greer does. You know, he also needs people for certain things and Dody probably had that probably had a connection for him. So he gave him some time on stage.

I don’t know. I think it’s very, very strange as well that anybody’s talking to Dodie as if he’s great. It’s very strange.

[00:38:11] Alex Tsakiris: I mean, because Dodi, you know, if you did, like, it’s interesting what you said about the insight information you have from other people who’ve done interviews with Lou and Lou says, I like the way you put it to the way you put it has a real ring of truth to it. Ask this, this and this, don’t ask this, this and this.

And then what you added is, and then everything will be good for you. Everything will be okay. So it’s not like you can’t ask that shit. Cause you can ask that shit. Cause he just brushes it aside like flies in front of his face. Cause he does that all that’s his job. But he says, if he uses the leverage, if you want things to go well for you, I think that’s a great insight.

And I think that’s what goes on with the Dodi thing back to what you’re saying about ego. The other thing is I think people just do a quick calculation on, is this going to work out for me? You know, the way it works out for me is I play game. I play the game. I played ball with these folks cause Dodi it’s super easy to ask Dodi the questions like, like I can’t get over it.

Like the latest, uh, you know, when Dodie appears on the Showtime UFO.

[00:39:24] Rich Giordano: Yeah,

[00:39:25] Alex Tsakiris: I just think that, uh, you know, a lot of people hate a lot of people love, but mean, when I try and explain this, like to my wife, you know, I said, no, the guy stands there and says, yeah, I did that DePaul Benowitz, it’s not my fault.

They told me to do it. And it’s like, no, what you did is a crime. So whoever told you to do it, you need to go make public who they told you to do it because somebody needs to go to jail for this crime. But do we ever ask, well, who told you to do it? you swear an affidavit right now that you know who?

Well, I’m not going to do that. So it’s all just bullshit. It just unravels well bullshit. But why don’t we ask? Just like the obvious next question.

[00:40:10] Rich Giordano: they do usually. Um, it’s just, they hide behind that NDA. I signed an NDA. Can’t talk about it ever,


[00:40:19] Alex Tsakiris: it’s a crime. There’s no, it’s

[00:40:21] Rich Giordano: know. Yeah, but there there’s there covered, you know, that it’s a crime, but the government will keep them out of prison if they want to.

[00:40:31] Alex Tsakiris: Do you know who Colonel Michael acquaint? No. Is

[00:40:34] Rich Giordano: I know the name, but I can’t remember what he’s about.

[00:40:37] Alex Tsakiris: Satanist and a So he’s yeah.

[00:40:44] Rich Giordano: Yeah, I don’t, I never got into that guy at all. So,

sorry. Yeah.

[00:40:48] Alex Tsakiris: He was in intelligence officer in, I dunno what his army, whatever,

[00:40:53] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:40:54] Alex Tsakiris: you know, kind of an important guy is connected to a lot of projects that were really pretty significant projects. But where he got busted was in, uh, San Francisco in the Presidio school, uh, preschool thing.

[00:41:07] Rich Giordano: Hm.

[00:41:08] Alex Tsakiris: had him and his wife had molested all these kids. And these kids came forward, like 40 kids gave testimony to the police. They were able to get a search warrant. went to, they went to his house. It’s everything that they said, black walls, satanic altar, you know, kids, porno kind of thing, all this stuff, all this stuff is found, you know, and he’s a Satan, as he admits, he’s a Satanist he’s passed now, but you know, I’m a Satanist.

He wrote the satanic, you know, uh, chaplains guide and all this stuff, nasty, nasty person.

[00:41:41] Rich Giordano: Hm.

[00:41:42] Alex Tsakiris: But a Colonel and still a Colonel was never w and, and then, know, he was guy who kind of, uh, tried to revise it, revive his reputation and all that stuff comes out. So he went into the army and said, Hey, I want you to And publicly say that none of that stuff is real. somebody let like these things happen. Somebody in the army stood up and said, fuck you. And they wrote a report that people need to go look at publicly. It’s the final importance is no, we will not. We believe we have significant evidence that you did do these crimes, that you did lie, that you did Molesky and we are not backing off of that.

We may not be able to get the conviction they sought, but we are not clearing your name. You know, I say all that, because I think, again, a lot of people that listen in to this conversation, they just want to pick out the parts that they feel are comfortable, that they can kind of, you know? Yeah. Well, some Pete got, gotta break a couple of eggs and do, um, let’s and stuff like that.

you dig into this stuff, there’s potentially some very, very dark aspects to this in what we call military intelligence that we don’t even know how far it goes. Any thoughts on that?

[00:42:58] Rich Giordano: Yeah, well, I mean, it’s nasty. It’s a, that’s all, I mean, there’s not, I mean, all that stuff, you know, with the pedophile and all that stuff, I mean, that was even in move on, you know, their head of Moofawn a few years ago. And he was into that. I mean, I don’t know why that is such a big thing, but it seems like, uh, it is for whatever reason.

And I don’t know if that goes into whatever satanic cult they’re a part of or their belief, but. Yeah, it’s it’s, it goes deeper than we could ever imagine. It goes to the people who actually probably run the world, you know, those, those, whoever they are, the Illuminati, you know, and, uh, yeah, I don’t really get into that too much and all that stuff, but, uh, it runs pretty deep from what I’ve gone from what I understand.

[00:43:52] Alex Tsakiris: Okay, man, I’ve spent an hour pulling you into all these other things that I didn’t even kind of totally give you a heads up. We’re going to talk about, Hey, so let’s talk about Angela, cause that’s what brought me to goof on and your kind of excellent show where it’s just, you got to watch this guy show, cause it’s a, it’s a ride, man.

You don’t know where it’s going to go. it goes in a million different places sometimes that are super fun. And in this case, what I found is it kind of answered a question for me because tell people who Angelina we can almost say was she’s not passed, but in a way she is passed to tell us, tell us a brief sketch of the Anjalee story and then how you unraveled it.

[00:44:40] Rich Giordano: Believe it or not a very smart woman who was in intelligence, worked with the FBI. I think, uh, I mean she did, um, an ex.

[00:44:52] Alex Tsakiris: to isn’t Pentagon is where she

said shit.

[00:44:54] Rich Giordano: Yep. That’s true. And you know, with intelligence, you know, similar to Lou, she was more into the psychology of it and she’s also a professional liar and all this stuff, she’s also an author and an experiencer and has been about aliens since she was six years old.

[00:45:14] Alex Tsakiris: Now, let me, let me just, I can’t go too far without kind of asking a question like, even that is suspect, right? Cause there’s, some people have said, Hey, we’ve looked into her past. She was really just a secretary. And then there’s other people say, Hey, when you look into anyone who’s really legit and intelligence.

Yeah. They look like a secretary. They look like they did nothing. So it’s, we don’t know which way to go with that, but I don’t want to bury the lead because how does Anjalee make it to the public consciousness? I mean, tell people about the press conference. I mean, that’s where most people first heard about Anjalee.

[00:45:54] Rich Giordano: Yeah. That, that’s where I was just going. You read my mind. Yeah. So she’s been, , you know, into this talking to aliens since she was six years old. So one day there’s this, , video that pops up, uh, it was a wow. Press conference that she made for herself. actually called all the news agencies and said, I have a braid announcement I’m going to make in front of the Capitol or, uh, wherever she did

it And, uh, the Lincoln Memorial. Thank you. Yeah. I always get that. I don’t know why I say it wrong, the Lincoln Memorial and, , and it’s going to be great. Well, the mainstream media didn’t show up and she’s, she’s out there. I think she was in a wheelchair. She was, and some guy rolls around and she makes this announcement in front of, you know, six people

that, uh,

[00:46:45] Alex Tsakiris: friends that she gathered there with cameras. the whole idea that I I’m gonna, I’m going to send out a press release, you know, you were, I could do that tomorrow and say, Hey, we’re going to have, we’re gonna press police from Lincoln Memorial. I mean, why would we expect anyone to show up, but continue.

[00:46:59] Rich Giordano: Yeah. And she’s acting like she’s talking to a lot of people, you know, scanning the crowd, you know, that’s not there and whatnot. And she’s saying how there is an expedition that’s going to be taking place six months from now, which was last June or whatever. And then in December, she was going to have a research team go out to this guy’s property where he there’s a mountain.

This, this land that is on his property that he owns. But on the land is this mountain, this little tunnel that goes down to where aliens are. And she said, she’s talked to these tall, white, and there’s a couple of different type of aliens and whatnot. And she explains how, you know, when you walk into it, it’s Rocky and then it goes, and then it’s seamless transition into their world, you know, whatever.

And then she says, after a several minutes, whatever the experience she wound up back in the guy’s name was Wayne who owned the property. And she says, I wound up back on his couch in his house underneath an Archway. And, but we come to find out that she’s, she takes, , at a role and other mood inhibitors.

So she’s on four prescribed things. And also they took a very potent, uh, I don’t know what kind of oil, marijuana oil, I don’t know what you call it, but it was this oil that I think made her have a reaction. And I think she hallucinated at all. Um, it’s a very strange story. And she has been going around saying that she had this experience.

It’s so long. I mean, she met these people at a coffee. Apparently. And then they got to talking and she spent eight hours with these people. And apparently her side of the story is Wayne said he had this alien base under the mountain and he took her there and all this stuff happened, you know, she met the aliens, talk to them

[00:49:07] Alex Tsakiris: yeah, I mean, you hit the, you hit the high points. this woman who kind of out of nowhere in terms of the UFO scene, UFO community, she shows up in a wheelchair and says, I’ve met with the aliens and I’m going to bring a group of scientists with me in six months, I’m going to get the whole story we’re going to blow the blow the top off this thing, you know, this is going to be disclosure on another level you haven’t seen before.

And this is just last year. And then you go on your show and you say, man, I’ve been around this shit for a long time. It’s just bullshit. It just

[00:49:43] Rich Giordano: well,

[00:49:44] Alex Tsakiris: And she’s going to

[00:49:45] Rich Giordano: yeah,

[00:49:45] Alex Tsakiris: some kind of story why it happen.

[00:49:49] Rich Giordano: right.

[00:49:50] Alex Tsakiris: so fast forward to her announcement. And then you’re, you’re you have a little bit of an interchange with her, and then what you find out after that.

[00:50:02] Rich Giordano: Well, you know, immediately that within minutes I said, yeah, exactly what you said. I go, there’s no way it’s not going to happen. She’s going to come up with an excuse that the mountain caved in or the government found it, closed it down. And of course something happened, you know, three months before she was supposed to go out there,

, that she said Wayne is too sick from cancer and, and is calling the whole thing off because people are harassing him and trying to find out who he is and all this other stuff, which that was true.

, he died did have cancer, but he just came out recently. Finally,

, one of these guys, truth seekers found out who Wayne really was and he came on his show and said, she is full of shit.

[00:50:48] Alex Tsakiris: He came on, he came on your show. He came on your show because,

[00:50:52] Rich Giordano: no,

[00:50:53] Alex Tsakiris: what about the guy? What about the guy who, the guy who comes on your show and says, because the show of your, the goofy on show that I listened to on the follow on to Angelina is you had just gotten off of. In the interview with Angela, where you had kind of confronted her in a nice way.

You’re not like a real jerk to people or anything like that, but you had just said, Hey Angela. Yeah. Oh, can’t do it. Oh, cancer. Oh, that’s really too bad. You know, and what I thought was interesting is like, you, you learn this. If you listen to true car crime enough, you know what? My wife’s really into true crime.

So we watched a lot of true crime, but it’s like, what? When somebody asks somebody about the crime and they go, did you kill her? And their answer is I I’m a Christian. I wouldn’t do that. Or I love my, what, they don’t want to answer the question. They answer kind of a related question. And I thought when you played this clip, rich of you talking to Angela, that’s the first thing that popped in my mind is she doesn’t answer the question.

She goes, what do you want? You know, or something like that.


[00:52:01] Rich Giordano: Cause I go, I go, so Wayne has cancer. Huh? And she goes, what do you want, rich, what do you want? And that was on alien girls show where she was a guest there. And uh, yeah, she went off on me and didn’t answer the question.

[00:52:19] Alex Tsakiris: And then you have a guy call in who says I’ve found Wayne, and this is all bullshit. There’s a golf course. He doesn’t live out in the desert per se. There’s a golf course on his property. There’s trail on his property. There’s no mountains. There’s no cave. I found Wayne Wright. That’s a guy who calls into your show.

[00:52:35] Rich Giordano: Right. That was a guy named Ryan who is a movie maker. And all of that was, was wrong. He lied, he

[00:52:43] Alex Tsakiris: Oh, Ryan lied.

[00:52:45] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:52:46] Alex Tsakiris: Oh, I can’t even follow the damn story.

[00:52:48] Rich Giordano: It’s so convoluted. That’s what I said. They know if we’re going to talk about Anjalee it’s, it’s really, it goes all different directions. So this guy, Ryan said that he had this evidence and pictures of Wayne’s property and on Julie’s full of crap and this and that.

And he didn’t even interview the right person. And he said he paid Wayne a thousand dollars for his information. And we never got to hear the interview. We never saw real pictures. We saw Google earth images of the area, and he claimed he had these pictures. So I called him out on his bullshit immediately and just vanished.

He never came back. He just off the planet because it was all a lie. And, um, after that, this guy, uh, Stephen Cambian on truth seekers got a hold of the real Wayne through the research of somebody named, uh, Charlie. I can’t remember Charlie wiser and she’s a really good researcher and found the real Wayne and got the real way non-truth seeker show just last week.

And he spilled the beans on Andrew. And then Angelina came on truth seekers show a few days later to rebut what Wayne said. And she found a way to get out of the interview because Steven raised his voice at her. And she said he was screaming at him, which he wasn’t. kept interrupting him every time he made a good point, she’d interrupt them.

So she disconnected after 10 minutes and,

[00:54:18] Alex Tsakiris: Oh, I mean folks, people who are, I mean, people are listening to this. This is like one of the challenges to the UFO field that frustrates the hell out of people and they just get halfway in and they go, screw it, turn on the ball game. I’m done. You know, I can’t do it anymore, but somewhere in there is where I think we have to be because like, I, I haven’t stayed up on this thing.

So I’m totally off on the story. So please fill me in a little bit on what is the truth about Wayne? What do you think at this point is the truth about Anjalee then I want to talk about the strawberry ice cream thing and what we really think, you know, is Angela just serving up more strawberry ice cream.

[00:55:07] Rich Giordano: She is a, a writer and I believe she believes she has experiences. Now her personality mixed in. And I, and you know, it’s true because she said it on air. So I’m not slandering her. She takes a lot of medications. And when, when I found out what five things that she was on, I was like, whoa, that makes sense.

So you have somebody with this imagination since six years old talking about aliens, she wrote a book and, uh, now doesn’t charge for it. She gives it away for free talking about her experience with aliens. So what happened was Wayne came on truth seekers and said, there’s no alien base showed us, showed us a picture of the mountain.

It’s not even a mountain. You know, it’s a to hail, it’s not even a hundred feet. And, um, and he called her out on the bullshit

and that’s it basic

[00:56:08] Alex Tsakiris: Does Wayne know Anjalee does he,

[00:56:11] Rich Giordano: he did. They met, they really did meet, but he didn’t even know that she had the press conference. He didn’t know any of this. See, I think July thought she could get away with this story and say it, and nobody would ever look into it. They just figured we would just say, ah, just another story and not look into it.

But when somebody makes claims that they’re going to get evidence, that aliens are in a, uh, in a base underground and this guy’s mountain, uh, that’s going to raise a lot of eyebrows and get people watching. And I think she knew that. Of course she did. She knew what she was doing in

her personal.

[00:56:46] Alex Tsakiris: somebody like Ryan, how do they factor? Cause this is another, you know, who is somebody like Ryan? Just somebody who’s a, nobody who just wants a little bit of of beyond your show for five minutes, just to tell something. That’s.

[00:56:59] Rich Giordano: Yeah. That’s who Ryan was. Ryan is a filmmaker and he’s done it before he did it with Travis Walton, you know, trying to say, uh, he, he said he did an interview with Travis Walton, which he did, but he took the conversation and edited it to make it sound like they were talking about something else. So when in one of their conversation and part of the conversation, Brian goes, so did you guys, oh, I’m sorry.

Let me backtrack. He spoke with Mike, the guy who supposedly faked it with Travis, the driver, when Travis Walton got, you know, abducted, he drove away. That was his best friend.

[00:57:38] Alex Tsakiris: This is his best friend or his brother a thought no brother-in-law

[00:57:42] Rich Giordano: his best friend.

[00:57:43] Alex Tsakiris: Okay.

[00:57:44] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[00:57:44] Alex Tsakiris: just again, to not get too much inside baseball, point where I’ve been duped, I talked about Travis Walton as if it was real for a long time. on your show, it just kind of clued me into going and doing the research.

the most famous cases of all time, Travis Walton, these in Arizona, logging with a bunch of his buddies and the spaceship comes down. It zaps him. They think he’s dead. His friends drive off, he’s beamed up into the ship he’s healed. And five days later he shows up and all his buddies pass a lie detector test.

They’re under suspicion for murder. So clearly they wouldn’t be lying because there’s all this things. Turns out the thing’s fake turns out that Travis made it up, they staged it so that the other guys wouldn’t know, which is the best way to have witnesses of you stage it and show it. And they really think it’s real at some level and all the rest.

So the whole Travis Walton, one of the foundational cases in the UFO lore is highly, highly suspect at this point. So, but with that, go ahead and continue.

[00:58:49] Rich Giordano: Yeah. So Ryan edited the conversation from Mike and saying, did you guys hope to it? And then you could almost tell that it was edited and he’s like, yeah, we faked it. You know? So he just edited the conversation and made it work in his favor. Um, but that’s what, uh, that Ryan Guy did with Anjali story and the Wayne.

Yeah. You didn’t even have the right guy. he just tried to get his 15 minutes. That’s it? So, Ryan, yeah, he was a big waste of time wasted everybody’s time. And he came on the show drunk, you know, he was totally inebriated and just slurring his words. It was awful, just awful. Um, but that’s, you know, this is the problem.

When you have someone like Anjali. Making such great claims and not having any evidence. And when you call her out on it and then three months later, you you’re right. still denying it saying you’re not right. The base is really there and she’s still going on about it actually being real.

[00:59:48] Alex Tsakiris: So best guess at this point is Anjalee. Ryan or as Anjalee, uh, Dodi or something in between.

[01:00:00] Rich Giordano: What do you know? Anjali is just a liar.

[01:00:03] Alex Tsakiris: Just the Ryan, just to Ryan kind of, because we don’t think, we don’t think Ryan is a real operative. We don’t think Ryan is connected and has

real things. Right. So Anjalee cause the other thing that just, again, I’m totally accepting of what you’re saying, but you know, when she, she has these political connections, she ran for office in South Dakota and she plays that down.

Like just so people know the way I found Anjalee is I just kind of stumbled across this story. I go, this is ridiculous. I look for interviews. The first interview I find is Whitley Strieber when we talk about Whitley Strieber and a minute I’ve had a couple interviews with him, he’s been on my show. I’ve been on his show.

I love and respect Whitley Strieber and you know, he’s been at it. Hasn’t changed his story in 30 years. You don’t feel exactly the same way, but I want to hear about that, but the point is. I find Anjalee on Whitley Strieber Whitley Strieber says the interview you’re about to hear from me is different from everything else you’re going to hear this woman.

And she comes on and she does a great interview. She’s really compelling. She’s very composed. She’s very intelligent, which you can kind of rings with the Dodi, like, or, know, Lou Elizondo thinks very well-spoken

[01:01:20] Rich Giordano: Yeah,

[01:01:20] Alex Tsakiris: political office in South Dakota. That’s not accident. Yeah. They asked me to do it and I did it, but I wouldn’t take money, you know, and this, and it just rings of somebody who is somehow in some way, you know, connected and then has these intelligence.

So then we get to the rest of it and I’m like, wow, she is not, uh, Ryan, you know, calls up drunk on the show to get hacked up. She’s not that, are you sure? She’s just delusional and on drugs and all the rest of that. I mean, isn’t there because the cutter intelligence, sometimes they do some stuff that looks really, really stupid, but it’s part of the chess game, right?

[01:02:01] Rich Giordano: Yeah. Yeah, she’s all. She’s just bullshit. it? There’s nothing else. There’s no, uh, deep thinking. You need to figure this one out there’s you don’t even need to do a lot of research to figure it out. She is 100% making it all up I don’t know why it may be for a new career because she, uh, you know, really can’t function.

Like she used to, you know, she does take a lot, uh, you know, several medications prescribed to her and, uh, it’s pretty scary. Now she just put a picture up saying, uh, these are, I dunno, I have it somewhere, but it was, uh, a hoax that was made five years ago and somebody centered this picture and she said, those are the beings.

That’s their craft. This is by far them, you know, it’s real. you know, we found out it was total bullshit. It w it was, it was a video


years ago and she took the steel frame or somebody took a steel frame and sent it to her and said, is this them? And she’s like, that is them. That’s their ship.

So she’s just bullshit. She’s just a person, a grifter, you know, somebody who wants their 15 minutes of fame. That’s it. Now a lot of people. Her timing couldn’t have been any better because as soon as the 180 days came and went, know, that preliminary thing that came out last June 25th, once that ended, she came out like three, four weeks later, and now her and Lou have the same background, basically, you know, uh, almost did the same type of a thing, you know, for the government.


[01:03:45] Alex Tsakiris: What do you think about the people that looked into her background and says she was just a secretary don’t pay any attention to that?

[01:03:51] Rich Giordano: Um, I don’t think she was, well, that was also Ryan said that he’s the one who found that out. , I, I don’t know. She didn’t stay at her jobs that long. She was only at them for, you know, maybe it’s a couple of years at most, and then she would hop on somewhere else. And I don’t know if that’s because you know, she’s a little unstable mentally and, you know, a while maybe calling out sick or having issues with, you know, working with people, I don’t know.

Um, but yeah, she hopped around quite a bit.

[01:04:25] Alex Tsakiris: Because I’m on Whitley’s show she, again, her account sounded credible and it echoes back to me in terms of what you’re saying about Lou is Lou Elizondo. You listened to these people and you go, wow, he’s really good. Tell me more. I’m in a trance. I can’t stop listening. That’s how I felt listening to Angela when she’s talking about, oh, you know, my mentor at the Pentagon, one of the greatest, you know, women bosses I’ve ever had, and she deserves so much credit.

And what we were doing was really doing. You know, counter-intelligence psychological breakdowns these people because we learned, you know, in Afghanistan and other places that if we didn’t know our opponent on this deep psychological level, then we were prone to make kind of mistakes and I’m going, wow.

was really amazing. And then I hear this other thing. Oh no, she was just a secretary. She was faking it it’s like, I don’t know. But again, I’m not totally, be totally sold on like, when you make the connection of her and Lou, I, I keep wanting to go well, rich, isn’t that kind of pulling you the other way that there’s a lot of different ops that they’re running.

How do we know this? Isn’t some sort of op in some way,

[01:05:44] Rich Giordano: We just don’t know, got to go with your gut sometimes and whatever your gut tells you is probably right in this field, because if it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, you know, the duck and I, we see the same stuff with her that we do with many people, Brian bled. So, uh, and some other people who fake their way through this, uh,

[01:06:09] Alex Tsakiris: you keep bringing them up, man. Set them up, knock them down. Ryan Bledsoe, son of Chris


[01:06:17] Rich Giordano: I meant Christopher bud. So yeah. Kristin Ryan. Yeah.

[01:06:20] Alex Tsakiris: Well, well, what do you think about father and son and what do you think about,

okay, so. So, uh, grant grant, Cameron grant, grant Cameron real, or, I mean, I I’ve, I’ve had it out with grant a bunch of times, cause like I’ve been doing this consciousness thing for like a long time. And again, some of the top scientists, you know, cause the consciousness thing where you go first as a scientist, the pair of psychology people, the people like Dean Raden who have brought in into the lab and did the experiment where you have the photon beam generator.

And then you have a guy says, okay, can you affect the photon beam generator? And if you can effect the photon beam generator, then all bets are off because that’s not supposed to be able to happen. Consciousness is not supposed to be projected into the real world or we don’t have the real world as science thinks we don’t.

So Raden does that. And he proves what we knew for the last a hundred years when, you know, max Planck and Albert Einstein were battling it out and Einstein eventually said, oh, screw it. You’re right. Yeah, it does it. And this guy does the experiment. So anyways, that’s where you start, if you want to prove that stuff. But then the point is, if that’s true, then all this stuff just starts looking. stuff just starts to look at differently. And I don’t know, am

[01:07:45] Rich Giordano: Different how bad you looked bad. You said you got a new start taking a look at this stuff


[01:07:54] Alex Tsakiris: look bad. It just looks like, like with grant Cameron, the reason that I kind of got into it with grant Cameron is the good ITI versus batty T. And I did a show with Dolan on the goody T versus batty T thing. And grant Cameron has done a bunch of research with this guy down in Miami who used to be friends.

And now he hates me, , Ray Hernandez, who did this whole survey of people who’ve had experience. And they got back this data, um, what that ex on the ITI contact experience, they said, Hey, you, don’t 90% of the 80% of these people. Let me get the stat. Right. 80% of these people say, you know what the experience was for the most part positive.

And I feel that it was spiritually transformative for me. And then there’s these people that say it’s negative. And some of them even said, well, you know, over time I came to appreciate that there was something good about the experience. So that data kind of aligns up with the near-death experience data that we have, which is again, more solid.

They’ve done it in the hospital, you know, where I don’t want to go into that on I’m like, where are you? But if you ever want to know about near-death experience, call me, and I’ll tell you about the science, because they’ve proved it in

[01:09:08] Rich Giordano: Okay,

[01:09:09] Alex Tsakiris: in the cardiac arrest work, but not to digress any more

[01:09:12] Rich Giordano: where are they saw writing? Uh, something on top of the light fixtures and people in church praying, and

that what the doctors were saying,

[01:09:21] Alex Tsakiris: They do that. But the simplest experiment, if you ever want to talk to people about near-death experience, who are non-believers is they did this one is for the near-death experience science. You’re going to want to look at the science that’s done in hospital, because if you interviewed people 20 years after they’ve had it, it’s all sorts of stuff.

So what they do is they go into a hospital and you get checked into the cardiac arrest ward because you you’re going to have a heart attack. We make them into that. You come into the hospital, this guy,

[01:09:50] Rich Giordano: ready to go.

[01:09:51] Alex Tsakiris: if you had too many beef sandwiches. So the woman walks up in this case, Dr. Penny Sartori, again, interviewed on the show, incredibly doctor, you know, well, credentialed, published, peer reviewed papers.

And she goes, Hey, rich, you seem like a nice guy. I wish the best for you, buddy. But if you do have that heart attack, can I talk to you after? And you say, oh, okay. Yeah, you mean I live right? Yeah. Yeah. If you live. So she does that. She goes in, she interviews all these people who are admitted to the cardiac arrest ward.

Then she goes back and finds the one that do have a heart attack. And a lot of people don’t know this, but you have a car, if you have a cardiac arrest, a heart attack, Even in a well-equipped hospital, she was in Britain. When she was doing this, you don’t get like resuscitated, like immediately, you don’t like come back to life.

Like 10 seconds later.

[01:10:50] Rich Giordano: Hm.

[01:10:50] Alex Tsakiris: like two, three minutes, maybe more.

[01:10:54] Rich Giordano: Wow.

[01:10:55] Alex Tsakiris: know, have to call in the team and they bring in the cart and they adjust the things. They put the PA first, they start just pumping. See if that works, then that

[01:11:03] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[01:11:04] Alex Tsakiris: But a process it’s it’s minutes long. And we know what happens to your brain.

that process, we have tons of 60 years of data of what your EEG looks like when your heart stops within 10 to 15 seconds. Most people, it is completely flat line and you’ll hear other stuff. But those are people who are just trying to cloud the cloud. The issue. That is the fact that is a medical fact.

Talk to anyone who knows that data. I’ve talked to many back to penny. So what penny does now is you’ve been resuscitated rich, she goes up to you and she says, great. Remember me? We talked when you came in, I ask you some questions about your resuscitation and like the people who didn’t have a near-death experience go.

Lady. What are you talking about? I died. Didn’t cheer. I died. I was gone for three minutes. There’s nothing. I, I was, it was black and then I was back to life. Okay. goes, well, just tell me what you think happened. Tell me your best guess. You know, they go, oh, okay. And they start saying this stuff, like out of a TV show, right?

[01:12:17] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[01:12:18] Alex Tsakiris: Let you goes over to this other group of people in the same group. You know, she has her control. That’s our control group. Let you go to the people who have the near death experience. She doesn’t know it at the time, but she says, Hey, tell me what happened during your resuscitation. They go, oh my God,

[01:12:32] Rich Giordano: Hm.

[01:12:32] Alex Tsakiris: you wouldn’t believe it.

I saw everything.

[01:12:36] Rich Giordano: Um,

[01:12:37] Alex Tsakiris: Cause I was outside of my body. And the first thing, you know, they will in this curtain, there’s a sky that had this crazy hat on. It was like all orange. And I don’t know what the heck he was doing, but he jumped on me and then they did the paddle and they somehow got it wrong and they had to bring in another he tells you a boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, all these things that you wouldn’t see in a TV show that

[01:12:57] Rich Giordano: yeah.

[01:12:57] Alex Tsakiris: don’t know happen.

And they get it right. Point after point. Well, this is in simple terms. The best evidence we have that consciousness survives death. Again, the reason

[01:13:12] Rich Giordano: For a little bit,

[01:13:14] Alex Tsakiris: it doesn’t, you can’t say for a little bit, we don’t know. Right.

[01:13:17] Rich Giordano: we don’t know, but we know it’s at least for a little bit,

[01:13:20] Alex Tsakiris: and we know that that is a complete. From what neuroscience says when you went to school. When I went to school, when my kids too, still to this day, they say, no, no, no, no, that couldn’t happen. That’s can’t possibly happen. Your brain is just a pilot. It can’t possibly happen that way. Well, they’re just, they’re just running a game in the same way.

Other we’re talking about all this other stuff, they’re running an app because they just don’t want to shift for whatever reasons we can get into. But that’s the, that’s the reality of the, of the near-death experience. That’s how they know it’s real. I mean, when you, that’s pretty solid, uh, science, you know,

[01:14:04] Rich Giordano: sure. Is, um, people seeing what’s going on around them and they’re dead, uh, that, I don’t know how you can explain it. There’s no other way. Other than conscious, conscious mind consciousness exists after you’re gone

[01:14:19] Alex Tsakiris: so here,

[01:14:19] Rich Giordano: I don’t know, but

[01:14:21] Alex Tsakiris: well, here’s, here’s the rest of the story and I appreciate you kind of listening to it.

[01:14:26] Rich Giordano: Oh yeah. That’s great.

[01:14:27] Alex Tsakiris: I’m talking to grant Cameron and grant, Cameron has now become, and he’s known me for a long time and he’s been influenced by a lot of my shows and a lot of my interviews, you know, cause he didn’t know about a lot of this stuff.

So he starts on this consciousness thing and he’s like, he’s like a convert, you know, he’s like a religious convert. He’s like, it’s all consciousness. all good. It’s all God, it’s all light. all perfect. And I’m like, Well, not necessarily. I mean, there’s, some people are saying they’re getting raped by aliens and we don’t know if that’s true or not, but if it is true in any way, wouldn’t associate that with being all light and love.

we got a lot of this other stuff out there that we wouldn’t necessarily throw in the light and love category. So don’t, we need to be a little more nuanced don’t we need to dig a little bit further. No, there’s no such thing as evil. It’s all, you know, that he’s a total convert at this point the consciousness thing.

that’s what kind of irks me a little bit, because it’s like, Hey, you know, that’s not that just doesn’t fit the data. It doesn’t fit the scientific data.

[01:15:35] Rich Giordano: Why do you think he does that though?

[01:15:38] Alex Tsakiris: ’cause, he’s a believer. No, he believes that it’s a religious thing. It

[01:15:42] Rich Giordano: I know, but he doesn’t believe there’s any negative stuff, even though people are saying that, how does he not know?

[01:15:49] Alex Tsakiris: no, he says that’s all their perception.

Is that

[01:15:53] Rich Giordano: it’s all perception the other way too, dude. You know what I mean? That’s what I would tell him. Not you dude, him, dude. You know what I mean? It’s all

[01:16:01] Alex Tsakiris: totally

[01:16:02] Rich Giordano: So it’s all perception, both positively and negatively. So how could he say that? It can’t be one sided. That’s what frustrates me about grant Cameron

[01:16:11] Alex Tsakiris: well.

[01:16:11] Rich Giordano: went from nuts and bolts to this and, yeah, it’s weird.

[01:16:15] Alex Tsakiris: But so, so no, no, no. I want you to interrupt please. Cause you can see if, you know, you’re gonna have a hard time here, but so grant Cameron to finish the story, right? Grant Cameron is driving down to Florida and he says, well, I’ll just stop off and see my buddy Chris Bledsoe. And he sees Chris Bledsoe and he says, what happens in the backyard and the dog and the blood and all that stuff.

And he’s either flat out fricking lying his ass off and making up a story, which isn’t exactly consistent with who grant Cameron is. I mean, maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but it isn’t doesn’t fit the pattern of grant Cameron or those things really happened. You know what I mean?

[01:16:59] Rich Giordano: His perception. That’s what it is. Yeah, because I’ve heard stories. There was a guy science. Bob is what they call them. he spent five days over at house and all this stuff. It really did happen to him and they saw the orbs and this and that. And I’m like, well, where’s the video and that we didn’t get it on video.

And I’m like, so how do you know you weren’t being duped? How do you know it? Wasn’t his son creating this stuff and all that. And Nope. Nope. It definitely, you had to be there. You had to be there and I’m like, I just don’t buy it. And I think that these guys want to believe in it so badly. And I think what they’re really doing is having dreams and I think they’re making their dreams and the stories, that’s it.

That’s what I think is really going on with Bledsoe’s. I think he originally had an experience first, that one time, and then after that, you know, he disappeared for a while. Then all of a sudden he came back and came out with this story that he’s being visited and this connection. And all of a sudden then his son, I mean, it’s just one thing after another.

And when you see the evidence, it’s, it’s awful and you got, God forbid, you say anything negatively about it. You’re wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m like, I’ve got more time knowing how to, you know, what’s on a video and recorded the same stuff. I know what you’re doing. Yeah. So it’s all bullshit with him.

My opinion.

[01:18:36] Alex Tsakiris: I’m not, not sure. And I mean that in literally, I’m just not sure.

[01:18:42] Rich Giordano: I’m sure.

[01:18:42] Alex Tsakiris: things, about,

[01:18:43] Rich Giordano: I’m sure.

[01:18:44] Alex Tsakiris: well,

[01:18:45] Rich Giordano: Sorry. I’m


[01:18:48] Alex Tsakiris: w w what do you think of, uh, Diana washable? do you know her American cosmic the

[01:18:53] Rich Giordano: Yeah. I, uh, didn’t get into, to studying her enough to say either way. I kind of liked her from what I’ve seen, so

[01:19:02] Alex Tsakiris: friends with Chris Bledsoe, good

[01:19:05] Rich Giordano: yeah, yeah,

[01:19:06] Alex Tsakiris: she meets like her story. She’s a professor of religion at, uh, North Carolina, something or other, not UNC, but another one of the UNC schools anyways,

[01:19:20] Rich Giordano: yeah, yeah,

[01:19:21] Alex Tsakiris: respected, regarded in her field. And she’s investigating Catholic, uh, visions, you know, of these saints and

[01:19:32] Rich Giordano: yeah.

[01:19:33] Alex Tsakiris: from hundreds of years ago.

she shows her thing to some guy and he goes. Encounter that’s it. She goes, what are you talking? No, it’s this none from 300 years ago. It just is exactly like a UFO encounter. So she’s extremely bright. And she goes, I got us started investigating this. There turns out to be a UFO conference, closer to her house.

She drives there. And one of the guys presenting is Chris Bledsoe and she gets to be friends with Chris. They have kids who are kind of the same age, start getting to know each other. They drive, they meet. I don’t know. I, Diana was Hasakah does not strike me as a bullshitter and a liar. And her connections like to jock filet, whatever you think about Jack filet, doesn’t impress me as a bullshitter, you know, and kind of, he’s kind of standing up for Diana

Diana says no, Chris Bledsoe is the real deal and all this other stuff. So w did you know that? Or what do you think of that?

[01:20:41] Rich Giordano: I recall it and, uh, I just brushed it off as people just don’t know. They don’t know. I, I definitely remember saying that about her. Like she just doesn’t know, she may sound smart. Like a lot of these people sound smart are smart. They say the right things, but they are still human. still have emotions.

They still make mistakes. And I think it’s something that, um, that they want to believe in so badly that they won’t accept any other answer. Unfortunately.

[01:21:17] Alex Tsakiris: You know, I got to tell you roots that doesn’t exactly fit her story because she’s kind of a researcher and takes this research approach to it. Do you know when she goes out to the desert and she finds the, the stuff she finds the you, the Tyler story and all that.

[01:21:37] Rich Giordano: Tyler who.

[01:21:38] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. So, uh, Diana Walsh gets into the UFO thing, meets Chris Bledsoe and she starts going, holy crap.

What if this Catholic studies stuff that I’ve been doing and you can kind of trace her history, just like you said, you can trace the history of, uh, Lou Elizondo and it’s all military intelligence got her intelligence. You trace her history and it’s all now she’s legitimate. Professor of religion. That should be just kind of you know, in, in the bigger world, she gets onto this story and she doesn’t let go.

goes out to another conference and meets jock, valet, and jock valet personally takes her around Silicon valley because he likes her and says, you know, dah, dah, dah. And here’s what I found in this and that she meets up with this guy named Tyler. And Tyler it’s his pseudonym, Tyler Durden from fight club.

But Tyler says, you know what I’ve done. I’ve actually found craft pieces, tiny little craft pieces in the desert. reverse, engineered them and filed patents on them. And I made a ton of money and she says, the one thing I know about Tyler is did dress in thousand dollar suits. He did call Lear jets like they’re Uber’s and they would private jet with land.

He take off and he did buy us lunch. Me and my buddy the Ritz for a thousand dollars. So he used, he does have, he does seem to have a lot of money and he was out there with us in the desert and we all together found, you know, these little pieces of whatever they are. Jock valet has said that he is found too.

that is the full, more full story of Diana Wallace, Paul Silka. it does kind of make a difference in terms of what Chris Bledsoe saying. And when you, you know, grant Cameron, I mean, this is such a maze, such a hall of mirrors, but like I was saying, rather than just go turn on the ballgame, I think we have to kind of go through the hall of mirrors, the best we can and you’re doing it.

I’m not, I’m not, you know, this is kind of switched over this interview, but you’re doing it. So we’re just kind of sharing what we’ve learned, kind of things.

[01:24:01] Rich Giordano: know that, you know, You know, whatever she is, a writer and a of religious things, and she has a degree and all that, but what does she have a degree in? Uh, she’s a professor, isn’t she? A

[01:24:13] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. Religious, religious studies, right.

[01:24:16] Rich Giordano: okay. It doesn’t mean she would know what a UFO’s look like on video or what a, a metal would be. I mean, she’s taking somebody else’s word for it.

You know? I don’t know. I I’ve seen so much and I’d have to look into her a little more. I definitely know who she is. I just have so many hours in the day doing, you know, all different things. There’s no way you can get to everybody, but I’m trying. But, um, I, yeah, I don’t know. I’ll have to ask my friend, uh, he’s done, he’s done a lot of work about Diana and I remember him not, not believing her, calling her out on her bullshit.

He said, so I’m gonna, I’ll talk to him and get more information on her. But that’s the problem I find just because somebody is really smart, has a degree doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about when it comes to aliens, UFO’s metals videos, the actual proof and, and a lot of people and a lot of people lie just because they can, they like it.

That they’re narcissists maybe, or they like the attention, you know? Yeah. I don’t know, man.

[01:25:25] Alex Tsakiris: well, you know, the, the flip side, the I get ya, I totally get you. And you’re fighting the good fight in there trying to be fair-minded and figuring this out. And you’re not like a, a skeptic in the kind of classical way of just piss on everything kind of thing. But I got

to tell you,

[01:25:42] Rich Giordano: going to say that, oh, this guy doesn’t believe anything. You know, because every time I’ve asked for proof and, and try to get truth, you know, and, and people fail single time. So

[01:25:56] Alex Tsakiris: think we have to be careful with that. I spent, you know, first five years of this show. Working with talking to skeptics quote-unquote skeptics back in the day when there was the James Randi thing, I don’t remember way back in the day,


[01:26:10] Rich Giordano: course.

[01:26:11] Alex Tsakiris: you know, and

so James

[01:26:12] Rich Giordano: guys.

[01:26:13] Alex Tsakiris: really,

[01:26:14] Rich Giordano: the magician. Yeah,

[01:26:16] Alex Tsakiris: Ew,


[01:26:17] Rich Giordano: Randy.

[01:26:18] Alex Tsakiris: Ew. You kind of believe him or you see him as an op?

[01:26:22] Rich Giordano: the amazing brandies. He debunks everything.

[01:26:25] Alex Tsakiris: Well, he did he’s passed, but he was fake. He wasn’t real

[01:26:30] Rich Giordano: Wait, are we talking about the same

[01:26:32] Alex Tsakiris: James James, Randy. Uh, so you, you kinda think Randy was, uh, was real, was a

[01:26:39] Rich Giordano: You’re talking about the magician, the

[01:26:42] Alex Tsakiris: yes. Randy research Institute or whatever they call it,

[01:26:47] Rich Giordano: yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[01:26:49] Alex Tsakiris: so.

[01:26:49] Rich Giordano: bullshitter. He, he debunked. He was a magician. He knew how all the tricks were being done.

[01:26:56] Alex Tsakiris: Okay,

[01:26:58] Rich Giordano: What don’t I know.

[01:27:00] Alex Tsakiris: so that’s an hour,

[01:27:02] Rich Giordano: Yeah. All right.

[01:27:03] Alex Tsakiris: yeah. Um,

[01:27:05] Rich Giordano: Why, what about him You were,

[01:27:06] Alex Tsakiris: I had him on my show way back

[01:27:07] Rich Giordano: oh, no way.

[01:27:09] Alex Tsakiris: And, um,

[01:27:10] Rich Giordano: That’s awesome.

[01:27:11] Alex Tsakiris: so the, the thing about Randy is, I mean, one, he kind of admitted he was a liar and he just said that while I lie, it’s kind of a Lou Elizondo thing so that I live for the right reasons.

what you might want to look into just as a starting point

[01:27:27] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[01:27:28] Alex Tsakiris: is his, uh, Claim you don’t like Randy’s whole story. way that we’re talking about this other stuff. You know, what Randy’s story was? His claim was he had this like off the charts IQ, even though he had never been tested, he had like this special card at the library that let them see these secret documents.

And then he went on to say that was working with the local police try and trap these young kids who were making, uh, sexual prank calls.

[01:28:03] Rich Giordano: Oh, wow. I don’t know about that.

[01:28:04] Alex Tsakiris: look it up. They got that they have the heat went to court. So there’s court documents

[01:28:09] Rich Giordano: Wow.

[01:28:10] Alex Tsakiris: but what it starts to look like is all these other things you’ve seen, like when you said the, the pedophile thing and the entrapment, and you know, what we now know about Jeffrey Epstein is, Hey, if you want to control somebody, what you want to do is get some dirt on them.

Some really bad dirt that would kind of destroy him. Now, Randy later comes out and says, Hey, I’m a gay man. I was a closeted gay man for the

[01:28:32] Rich Giordano: Yeah.

[01:28:33] Alex Tsakiris: And all the rest of that. Now he never admitted. He never, I don’t know if you want to say admitted that, but then how does that fat fit back into the story of, you said, yeah, these darn 14 year old boys were calling me and we’re having sexually explicit conversations.

And the police asked me to infiltrate who was making these calls

[01:28:52] Rich Giordano: oh my goodness.

[01:28:53] Alex Tsakiris: doesn’t really hold up very well. And it fits more into the story of this guy becomes a compromised individual that then they can go and do the, you know, deep bunking kind of thing because the people he debunks and stuff like that.

And like, if we get into it, we ever have that hour long conversation about it. You know, I’ll tell you about the Cambridge biologist, who I interviewed, who proved. All of his stuff. And when I approached Randy about it in the million dollar challenge, and he just kind of all mad and just went away, you know, but

[01:29:26] Rich Giordano: Wow.

[01:29:27] Alex Tsakiris: the skeptic thing is really, really interesting.

And from what you’re saying, you don’t quite know what it’s about. It’s about a lot of the same things that the UFO skeptic thing was where it was an up, you know, I mean, some of it was an app right back in the day.

[01:29:48] Rich Giordano: Of course. Yeah. They want to see what the public’s going to do. You know, how they react. That’s what I think happens. I think they test us to see what, what we’ll believe and what we won’t. And the weird thing is when I was in California last year, we walked up and down the Santa Monica pier and we were talking to people, asking them if they know what a UAP is and you know, they were trying to change this UFO to UAP.

And everybody talk about, you know, let’s say UAP.

[01:30:20] Alex Tsakiris: That’s an op I agree.

[01:30:21] Rich Giordano: yeah. when we were asking people, do you know what a UAP is? And they said, oh, what, know, nobody knew. the public didn’t know what a UAP was. then also what other people were were saying, w we, you know, when we told them my way means unidentified aerial phenomenon, they’d be, go, oh, aliens.

And then we’re like, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s like UFO. And they’re like, our an alien is going to attack us soon or something. And everybody thinks because of blue and his threat and saying it for years, that there was going to be an alien, alien invasion. It’s very weird. See now, and that’s, that’s what they did.

They got the public believing. my parents said the same thing my dad goes. Yeah. I saw that guy again, that aliens are coming in shit ridiculous. And I’m like, eh, maybe true. You know, so though it did, he didn’t say aliens are coming. It’s so funny how people interpret it.

[01:31:20] Alex Tsakiris: Well, it’s like their market testing, you know,

[01:31:24] Rich Giordano: Yeah. a hundred percent.

[01:31:26] Alex Tsakiris: focus

[01:31:26] Rich Giordano: That’s

[01:31:27] Alex Tsakiris: focus group, UAP, throw it out there. See what happens because that’s the other thing I think I’ll ask you this. I think that sometimes people that there’s more intelligence in intelligence than there really is.

of this is just, throw the shit up against the wall and see what sticks kind of

[01:31:45] Rich Giordano: yeah. It’s exactly what it is. That’s what Lou’s doing now. And now, you know, he’s going around on these podcasts that don’t even have a thousand subscribers and going on other ones that have, you know, a hundred thousand now he’s hitting all areas, but he’s not going to the other side that I’ll ask the hard questions.

So that scares us.

[01:32:06] Alex Tsakiris: Uh, rich as we kind of head towards the finish line here. And I appreciate you just kind of sharing all this. What’s kinda got your, what’s kind of got your interests kind of on the immediate short-term and longer term, you know, what has your interests? We talked about consciousness, which is kind of pulling you in a different direction, but in the immediate radar and what’s longer term.

[01:32:29] Rich Giordano: The immediate radar now is the interest in what’s being said now by Elizondo and the other people, people that are going on mainstream media and all the outlets. They’re saying that we are worried, which this was set back in the fifties. Uh, we’re worried about the private corporations, the, you know, the black budget programs, getting this technology and detaching themselves from the government in doing something nefarious with this technology.

So the government’s actually very worried that the people they’re paying privately funded black up thing, whatever, they’re afraid that they have technology they don’t even know about and can be used against them. So they’re having an issue with these private corporations. Now. That’s why they always kept their eye on, uh, on, uh, Elon Musk.

You know, they didn’t want him to get too big or too good, you know, because we don’t want them to take over and make their own country, or do something nefarious with this technology.

[01:33:35] Alex Tsakiris: That’s that’s a very, very interesting point, man. You’re digging in some interesting Wells. What do you think about, uh, I can’t resist, you know, we could just go on for hours probably, but Danny Sheehan is Danny shin has said that has said that

[01:33:50] Rich Giordano: right.

[01:33:50] Alex Tsakiris: exact same thing, there are these other entities, this breakaway civilization kind of thing, or breakaway military power.

He is on record with, with saying that. It’s for sure. An op is any of it. True. And when I’ll throw one other piece on the table there nine 11 directed energy weapon.

[01:34:14] Rich Giordano: Ah,

[01:34:15] Alex Tsakiris: it does look like there is some exotic technology that was in play there.

[01:34:21] Rich Giordano: Kalia.

[01:34:22] Alex Tsakiris: if there was who possesses that technology, and that was 20 years ago, what do they

[01:34:28] Rich Giordano: I know.

[01:34:29] Alex Tsakiris: And it adds legitimacy to the thought, the thought experiment that if someone did possess that or broke away with that, what would that mean? It’s a lot to unravel. Tell us where you’re at. Where does the current current thinking from goof on, on that?

[01:34:48] Rich Giordano: Well, the current thinking is that the ticket. Can be used as a weapon, a hypersonic weapon, and can probably, uh, I think it’s hours after all, you know, forever. I was saying it’s probably China, you know, because they gave us those drones, those DJI, DJI drones to the military, and they were infiltrating us with the drones didn’t even know it, which is why we stopped having contract with DJI.

Um, but I thought it was China. I actually now think it’s us that we have these weapons. We don’t even know about it. The tech tech I think is probably a breakaway company is testing this stuff on our own military, the best and the best, the best of the best. would you want to test it on? And if they have this technology, holy macro, if, uh, if Putin decided he wanted to launch 7,600 warheads at us, we could take them out as soon as they leave the silo, you know?

So that’s probably what’s going on

[01:35:52] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. There’s so many different levels on this and we could never stop. But are, are you aware, are you aware of the E M I electromagnetic interference attack on the cruise ship? I live here in San Diego off the coast of San Diego. This was like national news, the ship winds up dead in the water, everything electrical on the ship is fried and they tie it back to well, if you believe that, but I mean, something happened.

There was an EMI attack on that ship. People go look it up Right? So they tie it back and they say, Hey, China was saber rattling with, Hey, we’re working on this. And this was a while ago, I forget, but it’s probably 20 years or whatever, it would kind of fit in your story. And that’s like something people could kind of ground themselves on the thing about the tic-tac when you go there.

Again, w how do you process that? What you just said, which I disagree with you on, but respectfully,

[01:36:52] Rich Giordano: Well, I don’t even know yet.

[01:36:54] Alex Tsakiris: because the consciousness component, know, the consciousness component I interviewed, uh, the guy, do you know who Kevin Day is in that whole


[01:37:02] Rich Giordano: he was the radar guy.

[01:37:03] Alex Tsakiris: So I interviewed him, I interviewed him on this show.

Interesting guy. And do you know about his consciousness thing? Do you know what the valet Davis effect? So he goes, so valet, jock filet and Davis apologize. I forget the guy’s name PhD. They did this broader study and Jack filet for people to know, you know, he’s the guy who was portrayed in the close encounters movie.

He’s this brilliant, brilliant, brilliant PhD computer scientist, and made a ton of money in Silicon valley as a venture capitalist, legitimately, you can go look at the companies and stuff like that. It’s not like fake set up kind of stuff. And he has these metals that he’s collected from these sites because he’s one of the top UFO researchers has been for years and years, 30 years, whatever.

And the reason that’s important with the tic-tac thing is, and I just want you to respond to this small part of it. Do you remember the part of the tic-tac thing and Kevin de verifies this is they had this secret coordinate that they were all going to meet at, you know, these planes are flying at supersonic speed.

Hey, go out 30 miles over here and we’ll all meet and they go there to meet. And there’s the tic-tac there’s ETF, there’s the UFO. And the only way that, that ITI can know that is consciousness,

reading minds.

[01:38:26] Rich Giordano: wrong,

[01:38:27] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. Remote viewing then, because you’re comfortable with remote viewing.

Okay. So tell me, tell me

[01:38:32] Rich Giordano: you why. I’ll tell you why I’m joking a little bit.

[01:38:35] Alex Tsakiris: no, that’s okay.

[01:38:36] Rich Giordano: if it’s, if it’s, uh, let’s say it’s ours. Okay. It’s not ITI. And you know, this, uh, this technology is being tested Fravor and on our Navy and the pilots, without them knowing maybe not even the Admiral of the ship knowing or whatever, but.

Don’t you think it was planned? Like they knew where they were going to go because they had the information. So they just sent the another tic-tac over their way. And maybe it wasn’t the same one. It could have been a different one. Uh, you see, that’s why I have a problem with the story, because want to make it into consciousness so bad, but why can’t it just be one of the hundreds that they said they saw just another one there and they knew where he was going to go anyway, because part of the routine.

[01:39:27] Alex Tsakiris: So two things here, and this is kind of the thing that I guess I was calling you on before, and I’d call you on again, is you can’t be a remote if you’re a remote viewing guy, which you are, if you’re an empath, which you are, if you believe in psychic stuff, which you do, then you have a different Ockham’s razor than the rest of these guys.

And you can’t then jump onto the other side and say, there’s no way they could know that because you’re already in that soup. You’re already saying that you already. Giving the fact that if it is ITI, of course, ITI has this ability to this extended consciousness realm and do the remote viewing 10 times better, a hundred times better than rich can do it.


[01:40:12] Rich Giordano: No. Yeah.

[01:40:14] Alex Tsakiris: say one way or another, but you can’t use that. Excuse you can’t go back and say, well, there’s no T no way a T would know that because you’re already ignorant, you know, and remember help put off as part of the remote viewing project. Right? How put off is Stanford research Institute, Stargate, MK ultra, which it was a sub project of MK ultra.

A lot of people don’t know that Stargate was a sub project and Sydney Gottlieb, you know, the kind of USS Mengele, like if you listened to help put off and Russell targ, they say, oh yeah, Sydney wanted to do this. And, but Sydney was their boss. So anyone who has doubts that that was an MK ultra program, it was.

But what do you think about my pushback? There is you’re already in the soup, buddy. I mean, if you’re believing in remote viewing, then why not?

[01:41:07] Rich Giordano: I, I didn’t. said I I’ve done remote viewing and I had good success with it. mean, but I mean, some people are just really good at, dissecting things in real time to where it’s not a psychic It’s, it’s really guessing it’s a guessing game. It’s the high probability is what I think. Yeah, I know it’s strange.

I could tell you a story about remote viewing that I did, but it doesn’t really matter because you got, these guys are flying their jets. And if ITI was able to have this ability to know where they’re going to go, I always go to our outcomes raiser, like you said earlier, the most logical explanation, the simplest one is the answer and that’s they knew their course of action.

They knew where they were going to go.

[01:42:03] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, cause they read their mind.

[01:42:05] Rich Giordano: yeah, I don’t know.

[01:42:07] Alex Tsakiris: You get, my point is

that’s on the table. Because here’s care’s

Kevin date. Yeah. It’s exact, you can’t say you can no longer say rich most logical, because you say you do remote viewing and you know that it works, which has been verified in the lab that it works. You’re not the only one out there saying it, but if you can remote view, then you can know where this coordinate is.

I’ll just finish the story with Kevin Day. Cause it’s super fascinating guy. Again, I interviewed the guy guy feels totally legit to me because he’s his, his experience was number one. The mental consciousness thing is, I don’t know if you know this, but the tic TAC, whatever it was was trailing the ship for seven days.

And I said, Kevin, do you know the screened memory reports on the abduction? You know, people say, I, you know, I was walking down the stairs. My wife was having an incredibly traumatic experience with ITI. And suddenly my mind just said, this is nothing. Go back upstairs and go to bed. And I went back upstairs and I went to bed.

So this is a common thing, whether you believe it or not. So I asked Kevin, I go, Kevin, you are top gun, top dog, radar guy. These things are trailing you for seven days and you don’t mention it to the CEO. Yeah, that is kind of strange. Isn’t it? So then what happens is he actually goes up top to take a look at some point and he looks through the glasses and he has this experience that traumatizes him.

He comes back to San Diego, he retires from the military and he goes into the VA. He says, Hey man, I can’t do anything. I have, I have kind of PTSD, but it’s not really PTSD. And then he finds out jock, valet Davis, valet Davis facts, where they’ve said that people can just be part of a UFO sighting and their life just kind of falls apart.

It’s just, they can’t even process it. It just becomes kind of traumatic. And he said, this is Kevin Day saying when I found that, that provided me a pathway towards relief, because I could now understand that maybe just that encounter of just looking through the lens. Might’ve had an effect on me. I just throw it out there for what it’s worth.

[01:44:39] Rich Giordano: Yeah, well, Kevin Day, uh, should have, should have had psych analysis done to them because that guy lost his mind because nobody would believe him. You know? I mean, he was, he literally into drugs and alcohol lost his family, lost everything because he said, and this was not in the documentary or the TV show, whatever he said, because nobody believed him and it was driving him nuts.

It drove him to drink and do other things. I’m like, that’s the kind of guy we have running radar, in our military, you know, he was that unstable even then, because he didn’t report the UFO that was following them for seven days. Why? Because I think he was interested in what it was. I don’t think he wanted to tell anyone. I don’t know. Or he had, he had this, uh, thing happened to him from the aliens just by observing it, you know, possible.

[01:45:36] Alex Tsakiris: That’s that’s his claim. And, you know, again, valet Davis, that valley Davis effect, they call it that cause they’ve documented that over and over again. But my understanding from my memory serves him right. Kevin Day comes back from that thing and he he’s boom. He’s out of there. He retires from the Navy and that’s when the things start happening for him.

But I dunno, I


[01:45:58] Rich Giordano: he? Yeah. He started losing it. All right.

[01:46:01] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah.

[01:46:01] Rich Giordano: believed him.

[01:46:02] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. And

that’s when he Yeah. right.

[01:46:05] Rich Giordano: it on, you walked into a bar to get a drink and, or I don’t know what it was. saw on the television Lou Elizondo was talking about the tic-tac.

[01:46:15] Alex Tsakiris: Well, I don’t know about that because when I interviewed him and I have it. Record. He says, Hey man, some of this stuff I can’t talk about because these guys from the history channel, we know who that is, who Elizondo are coming out, and this is going to be a big thing and they want me to be a part of it.

And he was genuinely kind of, again, what does that fit into, you know, that fits into, you know, somebody who was an on the inside, but somebody who maybe has a real experience that they’re trying to shape in a certain way or control. my read of it. I don’t know.

[01:46:52] Rich Giordano: no, anything’s possible. Yeah. We just don’t know everything. I always use the outcomes, razor, the simplest explanation. It’s gotta be at most of the time, but sometimes we’ll never know. We’ll never have the answers we’re looking for. Sadly.

[01:47:09] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. Final question. Cause you can again, knocked it out of the park with the first prior final question. So that’s a short term stuff and it’s fascinating that you’re looking at that longer term. Where do you think this goofy thing. Which is the name of your YouTube channel and people really need to check it out.

It is, as we said, at the very beginning, entertaining is crap. I mean, this guy, I got to say, you’re not 100% on your game. When we turned on the mic, you said you had a little bit of an upset stomach and you’re, you are usually so positive and bringing it a humor and bringing entertainment. And you got voices that you do and all the rest of the stuff.

So if people tune in, they might see a little bit different. You more entertaining you, not that you haven’t been down with the info, but let me turn it back to that last question. Longer term.

[01:48:04] Rich Giordano: how can I be, you know, all what I do here. It’s different. I mean, this is a little, an interview, but I’m on my show. It’s more of a, you know, I’m not saying it’s, I’m doing entertaining, you know, but. I’m more of myself because I mean, this is me when we’re just talking, but on my show, playing videos, I’m playing music, you know, I’m talking to the crowd.

It’s a whole different environment.

[01:48:30] Alex Tsakiris: I get you, man. I’m not, I’m not, I’m

not criticizing.

[01:48:34] Rich Giordano: No, I know. I just

[01:48:35] Alex Tsakiris: And I want people to know that they should tune into goofin because it’s a load of fun and they’re really going to enjoy

it. It’s different than us kind of sloshing through slogging through this kind of stuff. So longer term. Where are you, where are you going?

Where do you see this thing headed for you in terms of where this research is going to lead?

[01:49:02] Rich Giordano: Well, that’s the best thing about doing what I do and being in this field, you never know where it’s going. I don’t really have. Uh, goal other than to just keep doing what I’m doing. And that’s talking about anything that happens in, you know, in our field, whether it’s Lou coming out or, you know, or Dolan or Greer or somebody brand new, we’re going to talk about it, analyze it and study it.

Uh, we, we look at videos, we analyze those, you know, and, uh, I show people some of my stuff and, you know, we laugh at that. So, yeah. And then we interact with the, with the audience. I have two shows, you know, the goof on the original and goof on the lives, where we have the after show. And I bring in the audience if they want to talk about that stuff I just talked about.

So I’m trying to bring more of the public in that’s. The long term to give the public a voice they never had and be comfortable coming out when they do it. And a lot of people like coming on on a goof on because they can be themselves. a lot of these shows are really stuffy and they’re super proper, and you’ve got to wear a tie and, you know, and, you know, wearing a hat would never happen on these shows, but they, they get intimidated by that.

And I think having a more relaxed atmosphere, like, uh, just talking, you know, a dinner or, you know, just hanging out, that’s kinda what I want to bring long-term. And I think I bring that day one, but I want to bring the public in and that’s it get to hear their story.

[01:50:40] Alex Tsakiris: Well, great. Like I said, at the beginning, you know, fantastic. I don’t know why it doesn’t have a million subscribers. It should. It’s great.

[01:50:49] Rich Giordano: I know.

[01:50:50] Alex Tsakiris: appreciate it. Yeah, there we go. That’s rich.

[01:50:53] Rich Giordano: Well,

[01:50:56] Alex Tsakiris: So it’s fun doing it this way, because thought it could play out this way, where we could talk about stuff that we don’t disagree with, that you could be totally honest about stuff about people that a lot of times people are not willing to say, oh, I can’t say this. I can’t say that. That’s what I appreciate about your do about what you’re doing and what you did here.

And people who are not familiar with this field not appreciate how difficult that is. I’ve difficult. That conversation is to have, so I appreciate you doing it.

[01:51:27] Rich Giordano: yeah, thank you. I appreciate you having me on. I was looking forward to it. I’m glad. I’m glad it all worked out. And we went, we went a good two hours, man. That was fun. It went by fast.

[01:51:38] Alex Tsakiris: We did go two hours.

[01:51:40] Rich Giordano: Just almost. Yeah, yeah.

Almost. Yeah, it goes well, you’ll edit it down to 20 minutes. So I’m just joking. I’m joking.

[01:51:48] Alex Tsakiris: I’ll I won’t edit it that much.


[01:51:51] Rich Giordano: know. I’m joking.

Um, what I meant by that joke was I only said 20 minutes of stuff that anybody would listen to everyone. And I’m joking.

[01:52:00] Alex Tsakiris: Well, you

[01:52:01] Rich Giordano: Why? I don’t joke when I’m on somebody else’s show.


[01:52:05] Alex Tsakiris: th the joke really is if I take all out all my stumbling and bumbling,

[01:52:10] Rich Giordano: Now,

[01:52:11] Alex Tsakiris: down there. You’re going to get it down there way far, but, uh, cool, man.

[01:52:15] Rich Giordano: thank you. This was great, actually.

Thanks again to rich for joining me today on Skepta co.

The one question I tee up from this interview.

Is what we’re experiencing right now regarding UFO disclosure. Asya app. Uh, COINTELPRO. An intelligence program. What do you think? Let me know. Until next time. Take care. Bye for now.


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