Dr. Yvonne Kason… spiritual transformative experience… near-death experience science… medical science confirms.

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[00:00:00] Alex Tsakiris: on, this episode of Skeptiko, I keep asking the same question. Does your spiritually transformative experience matter? Well, does it, Jodie foster.

[clip] Wait a minute, lemme get this straight. You admit that you have absolutely no physical evidence to back up your story. Yes. You admit that you very well may have hallucinated this whole thing. Yes. You admit that if you were in our position, you would respond with exactly the same degree of incredulity and skepticism.

Yes. Then why don’t you simply withdraw your testimony and concede that this journey to the center of the galaxy, in fact, never took place?

Because I can’t,

I had an experience. I can’t. I can’t even explain it, but everything that I know as a human being, everything that I am tells me that it was real.

[00:01:00] Alex Tsakiris: Okay, well, does it Dr. Yvonne kason?

[00:01:00] Alex Tsakiris:   I don’t wanna hear about the different kinds of near death experiences. What I wanna know is what is going on in these extended realms?

[00:01:10] Alex Tsakiris: How are we supposed to understand them? Mm-hmm. And how are we supposed to understand the information that’s coming back from these extended realms?

[00:01:18] Yvonne Kason: . I’m offering a, a vocabulary as a starting point. I’m not saying it’s the be all and the end all. It’s just as I started as a young doctor because I started having, as you mentioned, my first NDE start when, when I was five, one, when I was 11.

[00:01:33] Yvonne Kason: You know, I started having out of body experiences. I started seeing spirits and ghosts when I was a child after my near-death experience, which we now know is a common after fact. And then my Kundalini awakening mystical experience, near-death experience. I now have words that I can use. To describe these and you at least have an idea, even if we don’t know what it is or what causes it, or we can argue how we interpret it, at least we now have a vocabulary that we can communicate about it.

[00:02:02] Alex Tsakiris: That first clip was from, believe it or not way back in 1997, the movie contact that was Jodie foster starring in that one. And the second clip was from today’s guest. Dr. Vaughn caisson. Another, a lot of people who are really going to not like this interview in a number of ways, particularly since I push on Dr. Yvonne caisson very hard at times, but how else are we going to get to the next level of this stuff? We can’t just keep talking about the love and light. Of this spiritually transformative experience without wondering.Whether there’s another side. Hope you enjoy the interview. Superintelligence super well-informed and qualified and accomplished. Person. Who I hold in very, very high regard. And I’m very appreciative for being on the show.

[00:02:55] Alex Tsakiris: . Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science in spirituality.

[00:02:59] Alex Tsakiris: I’m joined today by dr. Ivonne Kason, , author of Soul Lessons from the Light, which you either just heard about or you’re gonna hear about it in a minute when we paste her clip in. And the subtitle is, how Spiritually Transformative Experiences Changed My Life. And the other book that we will talk about.

[00:03:21] Alex Tsakiris: Is touched by the light because Dr. Cason is really one of the, if not the first person, to kind of coin put a label on this term, spiritually transformative experiences. And in that book, she outlines a number of different ones of them. And although I have not read that book, I’m definitely familiar with that, uh, material and with her material.

[00:03:47] Alex Tsakiris: And she’s been on the show, we’re kind of old friends, known each other for a while. She’s been over to my house. We did some filming, which never made it on the air, but that’s okay. And it’s very cool that she contacted me about this new book and that we’re able to reconnect. So, Dr. Kasan, welcome. Thank you for

[00:04:09] Yvonne Kason: joining me.

[00:04:10] Yvonne Kason: Thank you for having me back. I’m really glad to reconnect too.

[00:04:14] Alex Tsakiris: So as people are going to hear , you’ve lived the, the, quite an amazing life, amazing life as this book, , soul Lessons from the Light really kind of lays out,

[00:04:26] Alex Tsakiris: toronto physician, like a, a real doctor, doctor, you know, not a fake doctor. And someone who gets interested in yoga and meditation at an early age. And I love this part of the story, you know, at 23 years old, you’re there in yoga meditation class and you’re going, Hey, I think it just happened here guys.

[00:04:47] Alex Tsakiris: And, and I say guys, cuz like all the guys are like, nah, nah, that couldn’t happen. We’ve been sitting here for 10 years, we never got anything like that. And you’re like, no, I think it, and you were even, you know, again, you’re a woman and kind of in a man’s world it’s like, so you don’t wanna assert it too far and say, well I think, you know, so you gotta sit on it for a while and then you go, yes, I did have a samati experience, an awakening experience, whatever.

[00:05:12] Alex Tsakiris: We’re gonna call that. But then, you know, as we get more into your story, and I wanna recap this because I do want have a lot of questions that I wanna ask. Beyond the book. I really don’t wanna do a, a book interview. People can go read the book, PIM, go listen to other interviews with you, where you talk about the book.

[00:05:30] Alex Tsakiris: , we’re gonna take it in some different directions, but your story is really important because, you know, when you tell somebody, Yvonne, that you’ve had five near death experiences, people are immediately Skeptiko. They are. Mm-hmm. Uhhuh, one of the. One of the great things about the book is it really kind of demystifies that in a number of ways, but one in a very kind of plain way.

[00:05:57] Alex Tsakiris: It’s like, hey, my first near-death experience was I was just a little kid goofing around in the train and I went under there and almost got hit by a train and somebody pulled me out at the last second. And you go, well, that could happen. You know, I have kids or myself. I, you know, I could see that. And then at 11 years old, you’re in a horrible car accident where almost your whole family dies.

[00:06:20] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. And you’re left at the scene. They don’t even know that you’re there. And you people go, well, I. Yeah, I get it. That could happen. Especially, she wasn’t even driving the whole thing. It wasn’t her responsibility at 11 years old. And then you’re in a, a plane crash and you are in a lake and you almost, uh, drowned in a freezing water.

[00:06:37] Alex Tsakiris: And again, you would just go, well, that could happen. Every time I’ve been on a plane, especially a small plane, you’re like, what a thing. Thing goes down, could drown. Well, it happened to Yvonne. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, finally the, the slip and fall accident is again, so I I, I guess the, the point being that it, it is interesting, the life you’ve lived and what’s come with these experiences is probably quite unusual.

[00:07:06] Alex Tsakiris: Very unusual because you’ve lived this life of spiritual transformation, spiritual growth, spiritual seeking, and a lot of experiences that go with that. So, I, I just wanted to sketch that out and I want you to pick it up and, and kind of fill in how this whole life has unfolded for you,

[00:07:27] Yvonne Kason: . Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Well, you summarized it great, Alex, and I’m really happy that you had a chance to read the book. Cause it, it just felt important for me, um, at this point in my life. You know, I’m a senior now. I’m retired from the practice of medicine.

[00:07:43] Yvonne Kason: And so because of that, as you mentioned, I’m a medical doctor. I used to teach and practice at the University of Toronto for many years. I was on faculty there and so I was always. A little bit guarded in how much of my personal story I would share because I was concerned about my medical license. I didn’t want it to come back on me and that I’d end up losing my medical license cuz you know, somebody got offended by something that I said.

[00:08:10] Yvonne Kason: And so now that I’m retired, I feel a great freedom. It’s like, okay, alright guys, here’s a scoop. This is really what’s been happening behind the scenes that I didn’t feel, um, free enough to share early on in my life. And the other thing that’s very exciting about, um, my having written soul lessons from the light, and I’ll share that with your listeners, is that, um, it’s the product of the miracle.

[00:08:37] Yvonne Kason: Because my last near-death experience, my fifth near-death experience, we’ll start there, that you mentioned, um, happened in 2003 when I slipped on black ice at Niagara Falls and I hit my head on rock and had a very serious traumatic brain injury where I died instantly. And, and I had what we now know people who’ve heard or read about near-death experiences, what we can observe now and understand.

[00:09:03] Yvonne Kason: Oh yeah. She had a pretty typical near-death experience, which I did, cuz when I hit my head, instantly I found my, my, my, my, my point of perception or my soul, or my spirit, whatever you wanna call it, whisked outta my body and upwards by a force greater than myself. You know, I was just like passively being pulled by this force and I was rising up really rapidly through this dark, expansive space that some people might.

[00:09:30] Yvonne Kason: Think as a tunnel, but for me it was like a dark, expansive space. And I was rising up to this, um, opening to, uh, a brilliant white light realm, which I had seen before in my plane crash, near death experience. So I knew where I knew where I was heading this time, it was not the first time, but what was different this time was.

[00:09:53] Yvonne Kason: I was welcomed by two beings of light and two beings of light that I absolutely recognized. Um, and their names were Parma and Mahi, who are great saints from my particular spiritual tradition. And it was like they were welcoming me and explaining to me mentally or telepathically so that I would understand what was going on.

[00:10:17] Yvonne Kason: And they mentally or telepathically communicated to me that, um, my physical body had died, that my work in the body of Dr. Yvonne Cason was finished. And. And there was this incredible feeling in the light and also that they were emanating of just this incredible love, incredible joy, welcome. The feeling was like there was a surprise birthday party, or a surprise graduation party being held for me, you know?

[00:10:50] Yvonne Kason: And I was a guest of honor, and I had now arrived, and it was just this incredible feeling of joy and love. And then I remember it was like my, my ego mind was like, like they show on tv, a little devil on your shoulder whispering things. It was like my ego mind was this little voice on my shoulder. What?

[00:11:08] Yvonne Kason: Uh oh. Here comes the life review because, you know, I’d heard that other people when they die, actually died during their near-death experiences. They had life reviews and I mean, I, I’ve always tried to have a good life, but, you know, we make mistakes. So I wasn’t really looking forward to, you know, what my life Hebrew is gonna show me.

[00:11:29] Yvonne Kason: And it was so incredible what happened because the Two Saints, they could read my mind and they just tell, looked at me. And with a glance there was this incredible transmission of information. And I suddenly understood and knew like the, the, the, the, the concern, the ANGs, the fear was just blown off my shoulder.

[00:11:50] Yvonne Kason: The little nasty voice was blown off, like blowing off a fleas. And what I understood in that transmission was just like a loving parent when it sees its child who’s learning something. For example, learning to to walk. That the child is gonna make mistakes and stumble and fall, and maybe it’s gonna skin its sneeze or bump its head or fall on something and break it.

[00:12:17] Yvonne Kason: But, but the loving parent understands. It’s all part of the learning process. And so the loving parent doesn’t punish the child for that mistake, but rather embraces the child and comforts the child. They’ll say, that’s okay, honey. You can do, you can try it again. You can do better next time. And then, so with, with that sort of feeling of love and comfort, uh, then worry about the life review.

[00:12:43] Yvonne Kason: And then I went into feeling just incredible joy and love. And there are many, many things that happen on the other side that are very difficult to explain in words. But I, I do wanna explain a couple things and so I move on to answer your question about what it was like after. But while I was actually on the other side, I sort of shifted in.

[00:13:05] Yvonne Kason: My consciousness is the best word I have for it. Or my awareness to a place or a state where I was no longer actually seeing visual images. But what was happening was it was somehow, it was like my consciousness had expanded. It’s like I’d been a, a Pentium two computer consciousness and now I was a Pentium 100 mega computer, that my capacity and my consciousness was vastly expanded and I could take in vast amounts of information all at once.

[00:13:37] Yvonne Kason: Like more than in my, no, now that I’m back than I could possibly even contain in my mind. And suddenly in this sort of expansive state, I re remembered all of my past lives. And, and the feeling when I re remembered them was like, oh yeah. It was like, of course. That’s right. And it’s sort of like how, how, how odd that I didn’t remember them while I was incarnated because it was all a fit.

[00:14:06] Yvonne Kason: You know? It was, oh yeah, that was me. That was me in the past. And, and with that, there was also like an aha experience. This is the best I, I can describe it, because suddenly my life incarnated as Dr. Yvonne Kason up until that point made sense. Because before that time I always thought my life was a bit odd and odd in the sense of like, as you described, like, hello, five near death experiences, Kundalini awakening, mystical experiences.

[00:14:43] Yvonne Kason: How is it that I’m having all these experiences? I’m just this little doctor in Toronto, Canada. Like, why all this stuff happening to me? And. When I re remembered all of my past lives in that expansive state of Consci, It was obvious and it was clear and it completely made sense because what I re remembered was that this is not my first incarnation where I’m having these sorts of experiences.

[00:15:12] Yvonne Kason: I’ve in fact had. Near death experiences, Kundalini awakening, mystical experiences in many of my past lives, including my most recent past lives. So it seemed like my soul from a soul level, I was just sort of continuing on from, you know what I’ve been like recent incarnations, but from an ego level on this incarnation.

[00:15:35] Yvonne Kason: Until that point, I really didn’t know, like, why is all this stuff happening to me? I am a little, a little different from what the average person experiences, but from a soul level, it made complete sense. And the other thing I wanted to mention, cuz I think it is, it’s somehow so significant that I, uh, was aware of while I was on the other side, was how time passes differently on the other side.

[00:16:04] Yvonne Kason: That, that, on the other side, there’s, I have this clear awareness that. Yes, I understood how we, when incarnated in our bodies here on earth, we experienced time linearly, right? That there’s the past is behind us. The presence where we’re at right now and the future is something that we haven’t seen yet in the future.

[00:16:27] Yvonne Kason: Whereas on the other side, there was a clear awareness that time could bend, that it could loop so that you could actually reenter, which I think actually happened. I think I reentered my body or that I was over there much longer. Then my body was dead on earth. That when I was sent back, it was like time bent to bring me back at a time that my body could still come back to life, you know, that I hadn’t been dead too long.

[00:17:01] Yvonne Kason: That time can bent, but also there’s another interesting phenomenon is that on the other side it was like the past, the present and the future were all perceptible, almost like they were happening at the same time. And, and, and, and what it was like was that depending on where I focused my attention. So if I focus my attention, This way to what we on Earth perceive as the past, that I could very clearly perceive the past if I shifted my attention sort of to a different place in consciousness that I would, could, uh, to the present, that I would be perceiving what we hear on Earth perceive as the present.

[00:17:49] Yvonne Kason: And that if I shifted my consciousness to what we, a little differently, I could be observing what we hear and the earth perceive as a possible future. And it, it felt totally. It made sense and it felt totally natural on the other side cuz the perception of time was very different. And, and the metaphor I sometimes use to explain this is, um, a multiplex movie theater that most people have probably been to, you know, it’s a movie theater and it’s got like maybe 10 or 12 or 15 different, uh, little theaters in there that ha may have different movies playing.

[00:18:25] Yvonne Kason: So imagine that in each of the theaters you have, um, a different movie with the same actor, but what maybe in one, one movie, he’s a Civil war soldier and another movie, he’s a, a Native Indian and another movie, he’s a black African doing something, another movie. He’s a Tibetan monk. And all in different times of history.

[00:18:46] Yvonne Kason: So that, that a person who doesn’t understand the concept of a multiplex movie theater would walk in there and would be confused and. How is it possible that the same actor, he’s been black, he’s been Asian, he’s a man, he’s a woman, he’s in all these different times of history at the same time. Because in the con the, the multiplex, they’re all playing at the same time.

[00:19:09] Yvonne Kason: But we understand, okay, he filmed it at a different time, but when we’re in the multiplex, we can watch them all at the same time. So that’s the best metaphor I’ve had for how time is perceived different. On the other side, we know that we experience it linearly, but we can perceive it, it just matters which of the little theaters we go into, whether we’re looking at the past, the present, or the future anyway, after a period of what I call, um, timeless time, because time is experienced so different on the other side, the two beings of light reappeared to me and they telepathically communicated to me.

[00:19:50] Yvonne Kason: You may now choose. And so I have to translate. You may now choose means you must now choose what they, what they said was, you may now choose. And the choice I was given was to incarnate in the body of a baby and or interesting. The choice was and or not. Or and or to go back to the injured body to serve the divine.

[00:20:19] Yvonne Kason: And I was in such a state of, I guess, mystical, ecstasy, mystical communion, expansion, love, profound trust, knowing on a soul level, the infinite wisdom and loving wisdom of the plan, the higher powers plan. It’s like my ego mind was. I guess resting, and it was just my heart or my soul that responded, and immediately it just came out of my heart or my soul.

[00:20:52] Yvonne Kason: Oh, masters, please guide me. What is the higher choice I want to do? God’s will. And so lovingly and so gently, and how a thought can have that exquisite sweetness and love. Very hard to explain, but it is exquisitely sweet and loving vibration to the thought. Um, it will be more difficult, but to return to the injured body.

[00:21:26] Yvonne Kason: And my soul did not ask any questions. I did not ask for any details. Some people talk about this. Choosing that, like they’re shown all the details and then they choose, they wanna go right or wanna go left. That didn’t happen to me at all. What happened to me was, yes, I was given the choice of a baby or going back to the engine form, but I was shown no details about either, um, situation, and I didn’t care.

[00:21:54] Yvonne Kason: It was like that desire to know the details. That ego desire didn’t exist in me at that time. I was in a complete state of openness, surrender, and trust of the higher power. And if the higher path was to return to the injured body, my soul instantly accepted. And then soon as my eye responded, I accept it was faster than the speed of thought that I suddenly I was gasping.

[00:22:22] Yvonne Kason: I’m, I’m, I’m breathing air back into my previously dead body that’s lying on the ground. And, uh, for the first few minutes that I was lying there slowly starting to, to breathe life into my body, which was like waking up in an ice cube because I had died outdoors in winter in Canada, you know? Uh, so my body temperature dropped and I started to breathe.

[00:22:46] Yvonne Kason: I, as I was breathing life into my, my, my body, I’m lying there on the ground. I could see both realms at the same time. It was like, you know, a double exposure photo where you have, uh, you know, two images superposed on the other. And that’s what I could see that, that I could see the physical world around me as I was regaining consciousness, but I could also see the white light realm superimposed on it, and the two beings of.

[00:23:13] Yvonne Kason: Standing there and it was, it, they literally had ushered me back into my body, but it happened so fast, like there was no sense of movement. It was just, it was faster than the speed of thought. Suddenly I was back in my body and they were there with me and then they slowly started fading from view and the white light realm, which was gone with within a few minutes except for a tiny little spot, which was my life ring afterwards.

[00:23:38] Yvonne Kason: And I came back to a seriously disabled body. I had had a serious traumatic brain injury with a brain hemorrhage, lacerated book, my frontal lobes and all sorts of injuries in between. And um, it was really difficult. I was told it’ll be more difficult. It was really difficult coming back as a disabled person.

[00:24:07] Yvonne Kason: So that happened November the eighth, 2003. And I tried really hard to get better, to get back to who I was before, because, uh, my life previous to the head injury, I had been, you know, I had already had four previous near death experiences, Kundalini awakening mystical experiences. I’d coined the phrase spiritually transformative experiences.

[00:24:33] Yvonne Kason: I’d already written four bo books by that time, and I was talking about it, and I was counseling experiencers. I was the first Canadian medical doctor to specialize in counseling, experiencers, and researching the whole spectrum of spiritually transformative experiences. I loved what I did, loved what I did, but it became clear after the head injury that for whatever reason and the cosmic design that life was over, you know, that, that I’d had this wonderful.

[00:25:06] Yvonne Kason: But I thought was interesting, very rich and rewarding life before my head injury. That, but that chapter was over now I was a disabled person. Um, I went to neuro rehabilitation for seven years trying to, to get better. And finally I had to, you know, come to a place of acceptance. I tried to use the spiritual and psychological learning that I’d had in my life until that point.

[00:25:33] Yvonne Kason: Uh, and one of the principles I’ve always tried to live by is try to look at the cup half full rather than half empty. Always try to look at the positive. And, and so when it became clear that I was not going to be able to return to my work as a doctor, or to writing books, or to public speaking or, or volunteering my son’s school, all these wonderful things I used to do.

[00:25:57] Yvonne Kason: I thought, okay, well what’s the positive in this? Well, I guess the positive is I don’t have to go to work. Yes, my income was much lower cuz I was living on disability insurance, but I don’t have to go to work in the morning, so, well, let’s look at it that way. And so I, I, I chose to frame it as early retirement rather than, oh, I’m disabled.

[00:26:20] Yvonne Kason: It’s like, okay, life has given me early desirement. I hap retirement. I happen to be disabled. I happen to only have half the normal person’s stamina, but I have half a person’s stamina, so I’ll do the best I can with that half a person’s stamina. Anyway, I, I also came to realize that if I couldn’t serve in the outer ways that I used to serve by helping experiences and educating about spiritually transformative experiences, how could I now serve?

[00:26:51] Yvonne Kason: And what, what came to me was well, I can serve through my prayers and meditation and so I’ll serve inwardly. And so I took my inner life, my spiritual life, very, very serious at the same time as I was, of course still trying to do all the physical stuff to try and get better. All my neuro rehab and cleanses and detoxes.

[00:27:12] Yvonne Kason: I mean, I did everything. Remove my mercury fillings, you name it. I did it to try and get better, but it, you know, for whatever reason, I remained disabled. So I really focused on regaining my ability to meditate, cuz that was one of the things I lost in the head. Injury, frontal low brain injuries affect your concentration and, and, um, I completely lost my ability to meditate.

[00:27:35] Yvonne Kason: It took many, many years of, of really. Um, stubborn, tenacious effort for me to gradually, gradually, gradually regain my ability to meditate. And then my prayer and my meditation became like my spiritual anchors as I dealt with the physical challenges of being a, a disabled person in the world. So, as I share in my book Soul Lessons From the Light, just when you think, you know, you’ve sort of figured out what, what God’s plan or the universe’s plan is for life.

[00:28:13] Yvonne Kason: Ha ha ha ha. Cause you never know when a surprise is going to hit you cuz much to my surprise, and since we spoke last Alex, I had a miracle happen to. On February 24th, 2016, so this was about 12 and a half years after I was disabled by the traumatic brain injury. So I, and, and medical doctors, you know, medical teaching, I mean, I’m, I’m a medical doctor.

[00:28:44] Yvonne Kason: The teaching is that after two years following a neurological. Injury if you haven’t healed by then while it’s considered chronic or permanent, you know, very rarely, very rarely. There might be a little bit of improvement, but it’s considered permanent. And uh, this was 12 and a half years later. So I’m meditating, uh, down in Encinitas, California at the self realization fellowship retreat, uh, at a power place.

[00:29:11] Yvonne Kason: I love to meditate at power places cuz having had five near death experiences, I’m very intuitive and very sensitive to spiritual vibrations and there’s a strong spiritual vibration there cuz that’s one of the places where Parma yoga, the great saint, uh, American saint father of yoga where he used to commune with God and go into these great samati mystical experiences.

[00:29:35] Yvonne Kason: So there’s a strong spiritual vibration there. And I was meditating on the chapel that was built right on that spot where he had his samati experiences on February 24th, 2016, and suddenly, Inward. I perceived this eruption of light in the middle of my brain. It was like inwardly, it was like a, a volcano erupted, or a, a fountain of liquid light suddenly, um, sprung forth.

[00:30:03] Yvonne Kason: And it, it literally, it, it inwardly the, it was like an area in the center of my brain that had been in darkness for over 12 years. That suddenly the lights came on, like literally I could see it bright with light inwardly, and that the subjective, uh, sensation was of waking up. It was like my brain woke up after being asleep for 12 years.

[00:30:29] Yvonne Kason: The, the central part of my brain, and at the same time that this happened, there was like a, a floodgate that opened and all these ideas that had been locked inside of me for the previous 12 years that I should be writing in my next books, plural, were just streaming through my consciousness. Because I had had a little bit of a locked in phenomenon.

[00:30:53] Yvonne Kason: So, and how my doctors explained that to me is using the computer analogy, uh, the hard drive of my brain, the hard drive of my computer. So the long-term memory, the spiritual insights, the life experience, that was all there, that was all attacked. My hard drive was never injured or my intelligence, none of that was injured.

[00:31:16] Yvonne Kason: But it was like having a computer with an intact hard drive where maybe the keyboard, the mouse, and the screen aren’t working. So doesn’t matter that the hard drive is okay, cuz you can’t use it, you know, provide anything because the keyboard the most and the, the screen aren’t working well. It was like with that healing, all that hard drive wanted to get all this stuff out.

[00:31:38] Yvonne Kason: So I had a, a, a very strong inner message when the healing happened, which is pass on what you have learned. And so, uh, some of my friends say I was offline for refurbishment for 12 years, and so now it’s Yvonne version 2.0 that came out and who knows in the Divine Plan. But that is what happened. And, and, uh, so I wrote two, I’ve written now two new books since my brain healing.

[00:32:07] Yvonne Kason: I just started writing like a, like a fiend, um, after, uh, the Healing. And the first one that I wrote is touched by the light that you had mentioned earlier on, which has like a, a, a, it’s like a summary of. 40 years of research into spiritually transformative experiences. I give all the definitions of the different types of experiences, and I give case examples for them.

[00:32:30] Yvonne Kason: So people will read it and go, oh, that’s what that’s called. I had that experience. I didn’t know that was called a x whatever. But, uh, so that came out in 2019. And then the second book that I’ve just written that just came out in December is Soul Lessons from the Light. And that is my personal spiritual awakening journey, and I’m really delighted to share it.

[00:32:55] Yvonne Kason: And as, as you mentioned that, that, um, I talk about all five of my near death experiences, my kundalini awakening, many other mystical experiences past life, recall, all sorts of clairvoyance, clear audience, CLE Sanchez, all sorts of stuff that happened to me. But, you know, it’s, I I I wanna say two things, is that, um, It’s really, really special to me.

[00:33:21] Yvonne Kason: Both the books are special to me because they, they show people that miracles can happen, you know? And I encourage people never give up hope. You know? I mean, we have to be realistic. We have to deal with the situation that’s in front of us, but always keep a little part of you. Don’t let go of hope completely because miracles can and do happen, and I am a living testimonial of that.

[00:33:55] Yvonne Kason: These two books are evidence that that miracles can and do happen. And if it could happen to me, it could happen to you. The, the other thing that I think you said, you know, having had a life like this, what, what, what, what, what did I learn from having had a life like this with all of these experiences?

[00:34:17] Yvonne Kason: And now with this most recent experience with being disabled and then being healed and having been clinically dead, cuz the other ones I was close to death. My other near death experiences, this was the only one where I was clinically dead. And you know, those are sort of my, my closing conclusions of the, of, of this book is, you know, what have you learned from a lifetime like this?

[00:34:42] Yvonne Kason: And I think the main things that I learned, I’m just gonna put it very, very simply, and then you can ask me all the questions you want, but is the importance of love. The importance of love, and that um, you know, some people have baggage around terms like God or the higher power if you wanna use a different term spirit, all ramen the force, you know, having been over on the other side five times.

[00:35:14] Yvonne Kason: It doesn’t matter to me what name people wanna call it. You can call it whatever you want, you know, from your, your, your particular background or tradition. But, but there is an intelligence behind the universe no matter what name we call it or whether we believe in it or not. And the fundamental nature that I have experienced of this intelligence force is the love that it’s incredibly loving and that we’re all, it’s like we’re all, um, connected.

[00:35:51] Yvonne Kason: To this love. I, I, I call it sometimes like a, a billion or trillion legs on a Millie. We’re all connected, we’re all equally connected. All the legs are equally connected. We’re all part of this big universal plan unfolding, but our capacity is little legs. We don’t have the capacity to have the awareness and the understanding that we’re part of something much bigger and that we’re, we’re all connected in some way.

[00:36:18] Yvonne Kason: We’re all part of this big universal team. And actually everything works better for everybody if we learn to love one another and work together rather than get into ego conflicts with each other. And the other, the other big, big, big take home message I’ve learned from having all of these experiences in my life, spiritual experiences is that, um, I’m not the physical body and none of us are the physical body.

[00:36:50] Yvonne Kason: We are, whether you wanna call us souls or spirits that are living inside the physical body. Like, you know, like you, you go inside a car and move around and when the car gets old, well if you get a new car. And so, and that’s similarly when, uh, our lifespan is as ended, whatever, uh, age we, we leave, we, our soul exits the physical body like exiting an old car.

[00:37:18] Yvonne Kason: I’ve experienced it five times. Many other people have made testimonies to this. But we, what we are the soul of spirit we live on. And after a certain period of what we call time down here, we seem to come back and incarnate again. And maybe on this planet, maybe not, but most of us tend to incarnate back on this planet at this point in our evolution.

[00:37:45] Yvonne Kason: And, um, What I was shown and what I’ve learned, and also I saw with, um, remembering my past lives is it’s like a big cosmic school. You know? And the reason we have to keep coming back is, well, we’ve got more lessons to learn. Like if you finish grade two, well you still need to come back and do grade three and maybe you pass grade three math, but you didn’t pass grade three, I don’t know, spelling or something.

[00:38:13] Yvonne Kason: And so you’re partly in one grade, partly in another grade, uniquely for what your soul needs in order to learn. And the last point I’m gonna say is that what I was shown and what I’ve learned is it’s a happy ending for everybody eventually. We don’t know how many, how many lifetimes it’s gonna take or how many more errors we’re gonna make, but in the end, it seems the divine plan is that we’re all eventually gonna graduate from this school, which sometimes seems like a chamber of horrors, but actually it is a school where we’re learning lessons through all of these experiences, and one day every soul will graduate and make their way home.

[00:38:55] Yvonne Kason: So how’s that for the answer for your questions?

[00:38:58] Alex Tsakiris: Well, it certainly leaves, uh, leaves a lot of questions, , maybe the place to start, and I don’t know, we’ll just kind of take this as it comes, but I just interviewed so it happens. I rarely do two interviews in a week, but I just, yesterday his scheduling worked out.

[00:39:12] Alex Tsakiris: I interviewed a near death experience, a really nice guy. The guy’s name is Vinny Tollman. Don’t know him. He was, he was dead, dead. I’m the floor of the Dairy Queen for an hour before they came and got him and he was rigor mortis had set in and stuff like that. And uh, they cut him out of the body bag. I love that part of his throat, cut him out of the body bag because one of the E m T guys just had first day on the job had this just intuitive sense that I need to do it.

[00:39:41] Alex Tsakiris: And the other guys who were the other team members were like, kid, what are you doing? Stop that. Don’t quit messing with that dead body. And

[00:39:49] Yvonne Kason: you know, you know the, it came back to life. That’s

[00:39:51] Alex Tsakiris: awesome. Came back to life. Wow. Here’s the question. What are we doing with these N D E stories? What is the, what is the purpose of those?

[00:40:00] Alex Tsakiris: As I’m listening to your story, I’m going, there’s a. Fantastic. It’s fantastic. It’s a great story. And you have, you have to share it, but there’s a certain yada yada to it, you know? Mm-hmm. Heard ’em. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Heard ’em, heard multiple ones. Been on Jeff Long’s website. Thousands of them read ’em for inspiration.

[00:40:19] Alex Tsakiris: I get it. It’s important that your, your account is important. It’s important that you wrote it in the book, but one of the things that we know about Near Death Experiencers, and one of the things I want to do as an aside, and I’ve told you this, is I wanna kind of cross correlate this mm-hmm. With the other interviews I’ve done and just recently interviewed Pmm H Out water.

[00:40:43] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. And what I think she really pointed us towards, , very accurately with her long time near death experience researcher, , is the after. And one of the after effects that’s kind of strange is this kind of, , proselytizing, people come back and they’re converted and then they want to convert everybody else.

[00:41:06] Alex Tsakiris: And they also, in the process, they sometimes turn other people off high rate of divorce, , suicidal thoughts. Mm-hmm. Because they’re sometimes depressed and , , there is a certain toughness about you that I really like in your story. It is that yoga toughness that I think comes through.

[00:41:26] Alex Tsakiris: It’s different than the Christian Evangelical, holy Jesus, uh, rolling in the aisles. It’s kind of a no, get up, sit on the mat, do the work, do the work the next day, where there’s no place to go. We’re not gonna get there in front of anyone else, do the freaking work. Mm-hmm. So the point though is what do we suppose, what do you suppose is the point of the near death experience story?

[00:42:00] Alex Tsakiris: Where does it work? Where does it fail us? Who are subjected to to it? How do we process that? How do we work with that as opposed to, or in addition to the near-death experience science?

[00:42:18] Yvonne Kason: Okay. Well, I, uh, that’s a great question. Thank you Alex.

[00:42:22] Yvonne Kason: And I have, , , a few points I’d like to make about that. I think, um, First off, I think that near death experiences are becoming more common. So I’d like to say that I think they’re becoming more common and they’re becoming more common because we have all these medical resuscitation techniques, you know, that, that, , like with the cardiac arrest story, all of the people and pinon, LUS, uh, research, they all got resuscitated like with, , defibrillators, et cetera.

[00:42:54] Yvonne Kason: And we have all sorts of other stuff. We have stories now. People on covid respirators having near-death experience. Of course, before the technology of respirators, they would’ve passed away. You know, they that, so we have. Drugs that treat pneumonia, all sorts of things. Surgery for heart conditions. So our medical advances, we, we, we are resuscitating more people.

[00:43:17] Yvonne Kason: And actually there’s research now that e with defibrillators, they are bringing people back who’ve been dead for, you know, considerable periods of time. Then you have the other experience, like the fellow you interviewed yesterday or this week, who, he came back on his own after being dead some period of time.

[00:43:34] Alex Tsakiris: , just to clarify, they zapped him, , the guy cuts him out of the body bag, hits him with the paddles,

[00:43:40] Yvonne Kason: and then he came back. Okay. Yeah. And Eddie, he, yeah. Yeah. So again, so then that’s what I was saying in the first place, it was the resuscitation techniques.

[00:43:49] Yvonne Kason: So it’s a phenomenon that’s happening.

[00:43:53] Alex Tsakiris: , but hold on, let me interject there, Uhhuh, because already we got, it’s problematic cuz that’s not exactly Vinny’s story, right? Vinny’s story is he’s above his body, he’s seeing the body and add this to it cuz this is the God consciousness. This is the part that we have to process because when you say resuscitation techniques, technology, great man.

[00:44:18] Alex Tsakiris: I want to go there. I want to talk about all that, the role of technology, but Vinny’s story is suddenly I saw a light in this guy, in this young trainee at the e EMT and this light was just glowing through him and I heard a voice that. You gotta do this. Mm-hmm. And the guy takes action. Mm-hmm. So this is not, you know, you could say the technology’s there, but

[00:44:46] Yvonne Kason: there’s some kind of, but there’s an additional component because

[00:44:49] Alex Tsakiris: , here’s the other part of that is that then he goes back to the guy in interviews, the guy, cuz one of the things I really pushed Vinny on, as I said, we need to be able to verify your story mm-hmm.

[00:44:59] Alex Tsakiris: Right off the bat. So like, I, I, I believe you, but I don’t believe you. So publish all the names of everybody because that’s what it takes. And if we go back to the history, EEB Alexander, you know, debunked, uh, Esquire magazine and then un debunked because you go and you really do the work thoroughly. And that’s part of the game too, of what game is being played in terms of misinformation, disinformation, image cheapening, and all the rest of that.

[00:45:27] Alex Tsakiris: Eeb Alexander comes through that with flying colors, but he had to go through the, the mill to do that. So that’s what Vinny needs to do. But when he goes back and talks to the mt, the mt, he says, did you feel the, did you see the light? Did you hear the voice? And the guy goes, no, I had none of that stuff. I just felt like I needed to do it.

[00:45:48] Alex Tsakiris: Right. So processing that leaves a lot of, leaves, a lot of gaps. But the first thing is, it doesn’t exactly fit with your first answer there. Not that you’re, you’re right or wrong, but it’s like, this is what we’re, this is what we’re dealing with in sorting this thing out. You know, we go to the mystic Yon and she says, well, it’s because we have more technology.

[00:46:10] Yvonne Kason: And then we also, I said, that was one of the reasons I didn’t say that was the only I, you know, that’s one of the reasons, uh, I was going to about to say, uh, sorry to interrupt there. I think we’re also hearing about it more so cuz we really don’t have a barometer about how many, we know that it’s been happening in the past.

[00:46:28] Yvonne Kason: Cuz there are documentations going back in history. I can go into some of that if you want, but that we know that, um, I’ll give you one example. The, uh, Gopi Krishna wrote about this who was a Indian scholar who wrote about Kundalini awakening. And he thought that a particular, um, tech, he thought there was a relationship between Kundalini awakening and near-death experiences, which also connects to the, the after effects.

[00:46:53] Yvonne Kason: Why so many people who have near-death experiences have the same type of after effects as somebody who’s had a kundalini awakening that maybe they’re awakening kundalini with their near death experience. And I’ve actually written about that and I have several videos where I talk about that. But Gopi Krishna said that he thought the ancient yogic technique, it’s called Keri Mudra.

[00:47:17] Yvonne Kason: Where, uh, a yogi would try and turn their tongue back so that it would block their airway. So it was actually sort of asphyxiate them. He thought that the reason they were doing that was that they were trying to induce a near death experience, which would activate, which would make the Kundalini awaken, which, you know, many advanced yoga practices, that’s what they’re trying to do, is to a, awaken the spiritual energy.

[00:47:47] Yvonne Kason: So he, he speculated that, that’s where that ancient technique came from.

[00:47:52] Alex Tsakiris: , that is interesting and problematic in all the ways, right? In all the ways that we’re talking about, these are the next level questions that we’re not answering. So we can’t just roll on with the story.

[00:48:05] Alex Tsakiris: In the next, I’ll tell you, you know, I interviewed a guy. Do you know, uh, Gregory Shon, Dr. Gregory Shon.

[00:48:10] Yvonne Kason: I’ve heard the name, but I don’t

[00:48:11] Alex Tsakiris: know. Uh, you probably do cuz you’re past president of Ion’s, , Yvonne. Mm-hmm. Also that, and so Gregory Shushan has done the most extensive work on nds cross culture across time.

[00:48:24] Alex Tsakiris: Right. So, and he’s published Oxford trained, , you know, academic, uh, I published peer reviewed. And, , there’s, it, it ties all this stuff together. One is that these things happen and at the end of the day, some of the conclusions he comes to is virtually every culture he saw. They’re after. Life belief system is based on, , people having these experiences

[00:48:51] Yvonne Kason: near death experience.

[00:48:52] Yvonne Kason: It’s interesting.

[00:48:52] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. And number two, the, there is this temptation to induce these then, right? Mm-hmm. So we hear this shamanically, right? And mm-hmm. And these are the rights of passage, you know, and you’re gonna get bit by 500 Bs, or you’re gonna do this or you’re gonna do that. So it’s the same thing.

[00:49:09] Alex Tsakiris: And then we can look at that from, uh, the accounts that we hear. That might not be necessarily the, the best plan for, for an individual.

[00:49:20] Yvonne Kason: She might die. He might die rather than having your death experience. Yeah. I was gonna share another one that Gopi Krishna pointed out, and I don’t know if, uh, Dr. Shushan also had it in his book, but he, uh, Gopi Krishna.

[00:49:33] Yvonne Kason: Um, looks at the headdresses of Egyptian Pharaohs, you know, and how they have the serpent coming out of the third eye region, and many of these headdresses. And the serpent is a really ancient symbol for the kundalini, for an act of Kundalini. So, uh, he speculated, and I mean, this is speculation we can’t prove.

[00:49:52] Yvonne Kason: Yeah. But, but I, I find it fascinating and to think about as, as possibility is that he speculated , , that the ancient Egyptian right there was a one ancient Egyptian, right? For , prospective pharaohs, like an initiation, right? Where they would lock him in a tomb for a period of time. So if you’re locked in the tomb for a period of time, you’re gonna run outta oxygen, you’re gonna asphyxiate.

[00:50:18] Yvonne Kason: And so, uh, one of the things that if Kundalini awakens. And goes to the brain. One of the phenomena is that it, it saves the brain, it keeps the brain alive, which is why Gopi Krishna said he thinks in many cases in a near death experience, the Kundalini is awakening cuz it’s uh, like the body’s mechanism to try and keep the brain alive as long as possible.

[00:50:41] Yvonne Kason: , and so, , if the person locked in the tomb had a Kundalini awakening and their brain was protected, when, you know, the, the people doing the initiation would open the tomb later, yes you are fit to be Pharaoh. And you know, if they open the tomb and he is dead, well guess he’s not fit to be Pharaoh. And , and I mean I find this interesting.

[00:51:02] Yvonne Kason: I find it fascinating because when a person has an active kundalini, just like someone who’s had a near death experience, cuz they’re very similar after effects. I mean that’s part of what I’ve been researching in my career is that they tend to become more intuitive. They may develop psychic gifts as after effects.

[00:51:22] Yvonne Kason: They may have mediumship, they may, uh, become clairvoyant, clear audient, they may develop past life. Recall, there’s been lots of research into after effects of N D e experiencers, , there’s been less research into after effects on people with active Kundalini. But I was involved with that research with, uh, when I was director, one of the founders of the Kundolini Research Network.

[00:51:44] Yvonne Kason: I was the director of the Kundalini Research Network, , questionnaire project. And yes, we found, this is after effects. This was published in Explore, uh, in 20, I think it was 2020. ,

[00:51:56] Alex Tsakiris: what are the negative effects? Cause I think those are underreported and they present Kind of an interesting question because back to the original question is what are we to do with the N D E accounts?

[00:52:08] Alex Tsakiris: Because they, they are, they are tricky when we process ’em. Yeah. And we’re gonna talk about that more now because we have other people saying, you know what, you’re misinterpreting that that’s mm-hmm. Uh, et on the, in the extended realm that’s demonic in the extended realm. Okay. That’s all these other things.

[00:52:25] Alex Tsakiris: And I, I don’t think we have any clear understanding of that. One of the things I appreciate about mm-hmm. Your presentation about both here in other places I’ve heard it, is, you know, you, you’re very, uh, clear and confident in what you’re talking about, but you’re also very open about the edges of what you know.

[00:52:46] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. And you’re very quick to say, I don’t know, maybe could be move over this way and that way, which I think is fantastic, is completely necessary. I I, I love the story. I, I just wrapped this back in, and then I’m gonna throw the mic back to you. One of the things you said in your, in the original account, which we’ve heard many times over again, is that the download was expansive.

[00:53:10] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. I was in this other realm, which almost everyone says is the real realm is home. You know, is it mm-hmm. Not this fake realm. And there it’s like, ask a question. You can’t even get it. The thought in your head. It’s instantly answered. You know, everything. And, you know, stuff that you can’t even ask the question, come down here, no funneled in.

[00:53:32] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. I’m now, I’m, I’m trying to remember my dream the next

[00:53:35] Yvonne Kason: morning, and I’m, that’s right. We’re down to a Pentium two again. That’s right.

[00:53:40] Alex Tsakiris: So, w w I, I wanna roll that back into how are we to understand the near death experience? ,

[00:53:46] Yvonne Kason: so I have to say two points here. I started saying it, we got off in a direction.

[00:53:50] Yvonne Kason: One point is there are many different, there are at least three different types of near-death experiences, and I go into that in great deal and touch by the light. Is that, People are right now sort of putting it all in one shoebox. It’s all one thing and no it’s not. There are actually, but that doesn’t

[00:54:10] Alex Tsakiris: matter.

[00:54:10] Alex Tsakiris: I, I know that. So there’s the body and then there’s talk going to heaven and there’s the other one. The, it’s, it’s all the same. They’re distressing. Okay. It’s all the same in terms of people are coming back and they’re telling their stories. Okay. And what are we gonna do with those stories? And in particular, cuz we’re gonna talk about the other stories that don’t have a near-death experience that mirror it.

[00:54:30] Alex Tsakiris: So the shamanic stories that do it, the, , psychedelic experiences, the ET experiences.

[00:54:36] Yvonne Kason: I get what you’re saying. But I, but we’re on the same wavelength. We’re on the same wavelength.

[00:54:41] Yvonne Kason: It’s just, I wasn’t complete with my thought. First off, because I’m a physician, and as a physician, the way I was trained and the way that my mind works is I wanna make an accurate diagnosis. Now, diagnosis seems to, you know, well, you’re saying it’s a disease. Okay, let’s call it an accurate label. I wanna correctly and accurately label and define what it.

[00:55:06] Yvonne Kason: That we’re looking at here, and you know that that’s part of why I did all my work with spiritually transformative experience is giving people definitions. Okay? This is a mystical experience. There are many subtypes of mystical experiences. Mystical experiences can happen to you when you’re sitting and meditating.

[00:55:27] Yvonne Kason: Mystical experiences can happen to you when you’re looking at a sunset. Mystical experiences can happen to you just out of the blue. Some people, although it’s very rare, have it when they’re doing hallucinogenic drugs or vision quest. Some people have mystical experiences when they’re near death. So that is one type of mystical experience is the type that you have when you’re near death.

[00:55:52] Yvonne Kason: Similarly, starting from the other. There are different types of near-death experiences. They are not all the same and they don’t have the same after effects. And I think we’re at a point where it is important to distinguish because they have different after effects. And if one type is the mystical near-death experience, and if you compare the after effects, that’s the ones where the white light and they, they see beings of light.

[00:56:18] Yvonne Kason: They may or may not have a life review. These are the people who are really spiritually transformed and they start proselytizing like crazy afterwards. But you’ll find many of them do mystical experiences also of other kites that might happen when you’re meditating might happen when you’re watching a sunset.

[00:56:38] Yvonne Kason: Those mystical experiences also profoundly transform people. Now there’s a second completely different type of s t e, but it’s related. And in yoga, Because I found in my research, I looked at a lot of different models, psychological models, different sacred traditions. For me, I found the best vocabulary and model that fit for me was in yoga.

[00:57:02] Yvonne Kason: So I use a lot of words from yoga. So in yoga it’s called the samati. A mystical experience is a samati, and there are many types of samati in the yoga and Buddha traditions talks about it. There are many types, but these are called sammas. Now there’s ano another, uh, uh, capacity of our human consciousness to have more expanded experiences that is described in yoga as cities or psychic phenomenon.

[00:57:31] Yvonne Kason: And there are many types of cities or psychic phenomenon, the yoga sutures of pet as a whole chapter, talking about all the different types of mental phenomenon. In today’s day and age in 2023, there are vocabularies in English for these experiences. So one term is an out of body experience. That is one type of city.

[00:57:54] Yvonne Kason: It is one type of psychic experience. And sometimes people will have out-of-body experiences when they’re meditating. Sometimes they’ll have ’em at night when they’re dreaming. Sometimes they’ll have them when they’re close to death and when they happen to have an out-of-body experience when they’re close to death.

[00:58:09] Yvonne Kason: That is also called a near-death experience. So nowadays people are calling a near-death experience. People have had a mystical experience or an out-of-body experience, which are two very different experiences when they’re close to death. Now, so often people will have both. And in yoga, this is understood by the chakras

[00:58:29] Alex Tsakiris: Now I do have to say yada, yada. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I interview, uh, Ray Hernandez, who Yes. Is part of I know well. You know,

[00:58:37] Yvonne Kason: Ray. Okay. I know him well, and I know his theory about the U F O E T everything. Yeah. Right. So contact modalities. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:58:43] Alex Tsakiris: So, and that’s, uh, uh, th this whole group over there and they’re connected to, , Edgar Mitchell.

[00:58:49] Alex Tsakiris: Edgar Mitchell, yep. Six Mad Walk, who’s recently passed away. But Ray’s story, , maybe you remember this is Ray is in bed with his wife at, well, he’s in bed, but his wife isn’t there, and he sees this bright light downstairs. , he goes to walk down the stairs and his little dog, who they were getting ready to put down the next day, very ill and the dog couldn’t move, was so the dog is running around, what’s going on there and his wife is going, the angel.

[00:59:19] Alex Tsakiris: The angel in the corner, and there’s an ET in the corner who’s showing shining this light and has healed the dog. And she. Verifies that Ray has a telepathic message in his head, which is a screen memory, which is very interesting and is not sounding like, , all the God, , you know, good spirit kind of thing is like, there’s nothing going on here.

[00:59:40] Alex Tsakiris: Go back upstairs and go to bed. This is not a love caring. This is more of a mm-hmm. Manipulation kind of thing. So he goes back upstairs and goes to bed. He has now had ongoing, , et contact with witness by other people, witnessed by his neighbors, witnessed by this. His wife who is Catholic, , still understands this as a Interprets it.

[01:00:02] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. Interprets it. Yeah. But the elements of this are healing, like you’re kind of healing, there’s tons of, of reports of miraculous healing as part of these N D E accounts. Mm-hmm. But at these abduction accounts also have with them a lot of stuff that we would call evil.

[01:00:22] Alex Tsakiris: There’s a sexual that is

[01:00:24] Yvonne Kason: And And traumatic and traumatic to the experience here. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:28] Alex Tsakiris: This is what I’m getting. Is that I don’t wanna hear about the different kinds of near death experiences. What I wanna know is what is going on in these extended realms?

[01:00:39] Alex Tsakiris: How are we supposed to understand them? Mm-hmm. And how are we supposed to understand the information that’s coming back from these extended realms? Okay. Because one of the problems I have with what you’re saying is you’re starting to define stuff that we have, we don’t even understand. We haven’t begun to understand what it is.

[01:00:56] Alex Tsakiris: And now we’re gonna define it, we’re gonna categorize it. We’re gonna say, you saw this and you saw this, so you had an O B E, and here are the guys from MK Ultra who they’re remote viewing. And that’s different than being psychic and that’s different than the Akashi records. And this, how do we know that’s different?

[01:01:12] Alex Tsakiris: Just cuz we label remote viewing is different than obe. That doesn’t make it

[01:01:17] Yvonne Kason: different. Well, well this is part of the problem. And so that was. I’m offering a, a vocabulary as a starting point. I’m not saying it’s the be all and the end all. It’s just as I started as a young doctor because I started having, as you mentioned, my first NDE start when, when I was five, one, when I was 11.

[01:01:36] Yvonne Kason: You know, I started having out of body experiences. I started seeing spirits and ghosts when I was a child after my near-death experience, which we now know is a common after fact. And then my Kundalini awakening mystical experience, near-death experience. I now have words that I can use. To describe these and you at least have an idea, even if we don’t know what it is or what causes it, or we can argue how we interpret it, at least we now have a vocabulary that we can communicate about it.

[01:02:05] Yvonne Kason: And that was what I’ve been trying to do with my work, with Touch By the Light and in Soul Lessons by the Light. Yeah. I use the best words I can to describe what I actually experienced, but you know, the thing about these experiences is that no matter how hard we try Alex, you can’t fully describe an experience with words.

[01:02:30] Yvonne Kason: You have to experience it like, like what does an orange taste like?

[01:02:33] Alex Tsakiris: What we’re talking about is , trying to understand the best we can. Because look, , I can read back what you wrote, what you told us, and start pulling it apart. I mean, even when we say the other side, What?

[01:02:45] Alex Tsakiris: What does, what does the other side mean? We use these terms. When I talked to Vinny, yeah. Mm-hmm. When I talked to Vinny yesterday, and I didn’t have a chance to push him on this one because there were too many other things, but he’s like, heaven is a planet. It’s a physical place, it’s a planet. Only the light reflects in, okay.

[01:03:04] Alex Tsakiris: I’m like, dude, I, I, I do not think that really makes sense from a scientific astrophysics. I’m not totally dissing it. So then I talked to Ian McCormick and he says, I had a dear death experience. I met Jesus. I go, okay, so you had a encounter with Christ Consciousness? No, bro, I met Jesus. And as a matter of fact, if you didn’t meet Jesus in your nde, then it’s probably Satanic cuz I’m Christian.

[01:03:31] Alex Tsakiris: So mm-hmm.

[01:03:32] Yvonne Kason: All this stuff is how people interpret it. Yeah. Well,

[01:03:35] Alex Tsakiris: it’s not necessarily how they interpret it. That’s, that’s my point is like to, to say that that’s how they interpret it, is to suggest that you understand it and they don’t, ,

[01:03:44] Yvonne Kason: I’m not saying that I understand it and they don’t, but what I’m saying is, based on my 40 years of research, Is that I, I share a story in my book.

[01:03:53] Yvonne Kason: There’s, it’s a, it’s an Indian fable about a whole bunch of blind kids wash, washing an elephant, and they’re each washing a different part, like one’s washing a leg, one’s washing a trunk, one’s washing a tail, one’s washing the belly. And so when they, their teacher says, you know, what does an elephant look like?

[01:04:08] Yvonne Kason: They’re all giving a different description because the part that they saw, they’re accurately to the best of their ability, um, describing. And, and this is what I’ve come to understand about the whole, not only near death experiences, but the whole range of spiritually transformative experiences. And, and Ray Hernandez is trans, I call those trans dimensional experiences.

[01:04:31] Yvonne Kason: And, um, anyway, uh, and I include that as a type of spiritually transformative experience just to have a vocabulary. Um, But there, the, the reality of the, the, the, the, the multi-dimensional consciousness universe living, uh, ecosystem, infinitely broad that we’re living in, is so vast that it is, it’s like an ant trying to figure out, you know, Einstein’s theory of relativity.

[01:05:02] Yvonne Kason: That’s what I’ve come to understand. We actually aren’t capable of understanding the whole picture, but what we, but that’s what we’re trying to do. But, but you know, but, but what we can do is share what we have observed. And that’s what I’m doing. This is what I’ve learned. This is what the thousands of people I’ve spoken to, you know, and my, I I’ll say this, that, that, that, I’m glad that you pointed this out cuz I think this is very important in this field.

[01:05:29] Yvonne Kason: We have to always be prepared to be flexible. With new information and expand our understanding. Right. Like I, I think Ray Hernandez is a great example because, uh, in my early years of research and spiritually transformative experiences, the people that I encountered who had had U f O and t uh, encounters, who came to me as a patient or, or met me at conferences or whatever, all reported it being very traumatic.

[01:06:00] Yvonne Kason: You know that it felt like an abduction experience. Uh, they wish it had never happened. It was very traumatic in their life. Uh, there didn’t seem to be anything uplifting or spiritual about it at all. It, it was like being raped, you know, that it was like, it, it felt like being, well, some of them were raped.

[01:06:17] Yvonne Kason: Yeah. And some of them were raped. And, and so this is a real phenomenon and this is what I mean about not calling everything the same thing. And not everybody has the same experience.

[01:06:28] Alex Tsakiris: Okay, hold on. Hold on. . Who healed the dog? Here’s the point.

[01:06:32] Yvonne Kason: No. That’s right. That’s the bottom line. We don’t, we don’t know. If

[01:06:37] Alex Tsakiris: we don’t know, then why are we saying, , God, uh, God did this, uh, the spirits gave me this choice. Yo Nanda was there and he said, you got the free will to do this or that

[01:06:50] Alex Tsakiris: If we don’t know, then we don’t know. Goes all the way down.

[01:06:54] Yvonne Kason: Oh, yeah. Abs it’s not an end. It’s the beginning of the discussion. It’s, it’s an introduction. To the fact that we live in a multidimensional universe and just like we, you know, way, way, way back when people used to think that the earth was the center of the universe and that all the plant, the sun went around it and that there was no life anywhere else or whatever.

[01:07:16] Yvonne Kason: And we now realize, oh gosh, you know, we’re in a solar system and we’re. Galaxy. And guess what? There are other galaxies that have other suns and other planets and you know, and oh gosh, you know, with Star Treks and Star Wars, I think most people of our generation have pretty well figured out, you know, there’s probably other life out there.

[01:07:36] Yvonne Kason: It’s not that we’re the only life there is, but even at that we’re only talking on our physical dimension, what we’re now learning through, um, increased, I’m gonna call it increased awareness about near-death experiences and mystical experiences, because the, the yogis and Buddhist Adams, they’ve been talking about this for thousands of years, that we’re living in a multi-dimensional universe and that we’re only perceiving a, a small fragment of, of the multidimensionality of reality.

[01:08:05] Yvonne Kason: And, um, so, so, so this is how I’ve come to understand it, um, is that, and that there. You know, in the ocean how you have different levels that near the, near the top of the ocean, the water is, the sunlight reaches and you go further down and the water’s heavier and the sunlight doesn’t reach there, and you go even further down and the water’s even heavier and there’s less oxygen and no light, and that you have different.

[01:08:31] Yvonne Kason: Um, animals, creatures, beings, microbes, whatever, living at, at each of these different layers. That, that, um, that I think that that’s a little bit of, uh, an analogy for understanding, uh, what people experience what you call the other side. Uh, or very loosely people are calling the other side. It’s not just one place there.

[01:08:53] Yvonne Kason: There’s many dimensions we go, they’re going into the ocean. My god, there’s many oceans. You’re can be in different heights. You can be in different places all over the planet. What you’re gonna see is different depending where you are in this massive ocean. And consciousness in the multi-dimensional universe is much faster than that.

[01:09:10] Yvonne Kason: So there, there are, there. I think we are, we are, we’re like, uh, in our school of life. Where, uh, human beings are now as a, as a species, I’m saying collectively as a species on this planet that we’re in a stage in yoga, they call them yogas or ages. So we’re in a sort of an upwards beginning of an upwards yoga according to yoga, which is a time of spiritual awakening.

[01:09:35] Yvonne Kason: Um, you know, one of the things that I’ve done in the last couple years is I’ve founded a new organization called Spiritual Awakenings International, um, to raise awareness about the whole spectrum of spiritually transformative experiences. And not to say that we have the answer because we don’t. But what it does, what we do with Spiritual Whitney News International, we provide a place where people like Ray Hernandez or myself or other n d e, experiencers, other s t e, experiencers of various types, can share what they’ve experienced, what they’ve learned, and it normalizes it for other people because whether we like it or not, whether we understand it or not.

[01:10:19] Yvonne Kason: There are a lot of people all over the planet. And because right now we have people from 78 countries subscribe to Spiritual Awakenings International in just two and a half years, I mean, which is pretty phenomenal, which to me indicates that people all over the world are having these awakenings in consciousness.

[01:10:37] Yvonne Kason: And Gopi Krishna hypothesized, again, we have no proof, but Gopi Krishna hypothesized, he thought this was like the next evolutionary stage for human beings so that, you know, the evolution is still going on and that, um, rather than, you know, growing another arm or leg or losing an arm or leg, which over thousands of years, supposedly these sorts of things happen to animals and creatures morph with, uh, um, evolution that what’s happening on a human species is evolution of consciousness.

[01:11:09] Alex Tsakiris: , again, just look at it from another perspective. Uhhuh Skeptiko is about inquiry to perpetuate doubt. Doubt is the ultimate spiritual tool. It’s the ultimate laser that cuts through because our hearts are the same Yvonne’s.

[01:11:25] Alex Tsakiris: Mm-hmm. About God. It’s about the light. It’s about the ultimate reality of love. But to get there, we have to kind of do the cleaning work, , the cleaning work of our soul. It’s the difference between , quieting the mind and listening to the voice.

[01:11:40] Alex Tsakiris: So it’s listening to the voice and quieting the voice both at the same time. They’re contradictory, but that’s yoga. Yoga is always a, a contradiction. So here’s the thing. Talk to Mary Rodwell has worked with, , thousands at this point of people who’ve had these encounters with , et. Mm-hmm. One of the things that comes through over and over again is ongoing genetic manipulation.

[01:12:04] Alex Tsakiris: By multiple species, multiple beings from different places coming down, genetic manipulation. Look in the genetic record, , Bruce Fenton has been on.

[01:12:14] Alex Tsakiris: Who’s to say how consciousness God manifests? And in particular, if we look at et we, we seem to have evidence that they’re kind of mixing the human, non-human, biological, , kind of thing. So the, the, that is my pushback. And, but that is the challenge. And you are open to the challenge, which I truly respect, but I’m gonna keep nudging you when we start saying, you know, Gopi Krishna says, , this, well, , he’s.

[01:12:44] Alex Tsakiris: He’s wrong cause of this. We proved that.

[01:12:46] Yvonne Kason: I’m saying it’s his opinion and we can’t prove it or disprove it, but, but what I can say is this. What I can say definitely from my personal experience and with the experience of spiritual Awakenings International, that people all over the world, all over the world, all countries, all backgrounds, all religions, no religion, male, female, in between, whatever, are having various types of spiritually transformative experiences.

[01:13:17] Yvonne Kason: Why this is happening, we do not know, but what I can say is, It’s happening and it appears to me that is accelerate. Now that may not be true. Maybe that, maybe that’s a misperception, maybe it’s just that we’re more aware of it now because of the internet and that we can, you know, everyone all over the world can get on the internet and come to the meetings and say, guess what, I’m in, in, in Africa somewhere and this is happening to me.

[01:13:43] Yvonne Kason: And someone says, well, I’m in Japan and this is happening to me. And someone else in South America says, well, I’ve had a very similar experience. All I can say is it is happening to people all over the world, um, by scientifically, cuz you, you describe me as a scientist and a doctor and all of those things, which is true.

[01:14:01] Yvonne Kason: Anna Yogi, which is true the most, another very, very important descriptor that I use for myself is an experiencer. I, I use that term. And, um, when I was younger in my medical career, It was more important to me at that time than it is now to, um, scientifically, uh, uh, corroborate, you know, and, and have all the references and the research studies, et cetera.

[01:14:34] Yvonne Kason: I’m at a point in my life as a senior now, and I’ve had so many experiences and as a yogi, as a yoga practitioner, I’ve been practicing yoga for 45 years and meditating now, is that, , the only thing I can be absolutely certain of is what I personally have experienced. Yeah, that’s not good enough.

[01:14:59] Alex Tsakiris: It’s just not good enough. , So when I hear Experiencers talk about their experience and then say, that’s all I can share is my experience, tell us how your experience relates to everyone else’s

[01:15:10] Yvonne Kason: experience. Well, that’s what I’ve done with my books, but what the point that I’m trying to make is that, , in the end when I go to sleep at night, , just for me personally, , the bottom line is what I’ve learned from all of my experiences and all of my research.

[01:15:27] Yvonne Kason: But the one that I mean, I’m telling you this is most powerful, is having had the experience of being dead, of being on the other side, of being loved and knowing that I am loved. And, and you know, the research is interesting. The data is interesting, and I, I get it, you’re pushing it on Skeptiko, but to me, as an experiencer, that’s sort of where, where it ends, is that I know that we are all loved, whether we understand the divine plan, whether we even have a capacity to understand the divine plan, whether our research even has the capacity to answer some of these questions that you’re asking.

[01:16:09] Yvonne Kason: I think probably we don’t how, how you can even figure out what questions to ask. I think you have to really listen to Experiencers or be an experiencer yourself to even know what questions to ask when you’re doing your research. The other

[01:16:28] Alex Tsakiris: problem with the experiencer thing is that it, blows past the obvious fact.

[01:16:35] Alex Tsakiris: We’re all experiencers.

[01:16:37] Yvonne Kason: We are to some degree,

[01:16:38] Alex Tsakiris: . We all have the voice inside our head. I have the voice inside my head. I have instant answers to questions when I can really quiet the mind. So I don’t know how that is excellent, different, but everybody does.

[01:16:50] Alex Tsakiris: Everybody does. So I don’t know how that is different than your experience, but I want to know. But that’s part of the process. So when the experiencer says, this is my experience, it’s like, Bring forth your experience as it relates to other experiences. Here’s, here’s an example. I’ll, I’ll go with the Jesus thing.

[01:17:10] Alex Tsakiris: Cause I love the Jesus thing because you let Christians off the hook way too much so Jesus versus historical Jesus versus Christ consciousness. And then the following question is, well, why did those, uh, why did those Catholics rape all those little kids? And why do we let ’em off the hook? Why do we, why do we still have such a thing as a Catholic church?

[01:17:29] Alex Tsakiris: Well, there’s evil and it doesn’t re, it doesn’t connect to this thing we call Christianity, this institution. We have a historical Jesus. Really do, do, are we to believe that we have the historical Jesus? Do we have to prove that? Does it matter? Does it, should it matter to you as a Christian? These are re so these are questions.

[01:17:49] Alex Tsakiris: So you’re an experiencer. Great answer those questions. Jesus Historical, Jesus Christ consciousness. Let’s, let’s get on those Christians. Let’s not be, let’s not be accepting of and loving of everyone’s religious tradition because it’s a mixed bag. Some of it’s good, some of it’s bad. Mm-hmm.

[01:18:08] Yvonne Kason: Was there historical? Jesus, I believe there was. What do you, what is has, has, has. What’s the evidence? Has he been, has he been vastly misunderstood and misinterpreted? Yes. What is, is there a mixture of good and corruption within pretty well every organized religion in the world?

[01:18:26] Yvonne Kason: Yes,

[01:18:27] Alex Tsakiris: I got all that. But on historical Jesus thing. Mm-hmm. What evidence convinces you that the historical Jesus narrative that is in the Bible is anywhere close to

[01:18:39] Yvonne Kason: accurate? Well, I’m not saying it was accurate, but I’m saying that a historical Jesus existed and, and you won’t like my answer, but I’ll tell you the truth and I mention it in my book.

[01:18:50] Yvonne Kason: Maybe it didn’t get to that chapter. It was the direct firsthand experience that I had when I traveled to Israel in 2000. I, I had, you know, I was raised a Christian. I was taught, you know, I was told all the stories, et cetera. I didn’t know if it was true or not. What I did know to be true is what I experienced on the other side, that the higher power as I experienced it was not anything like what I had been taught in my church.

[01:19:20] Yvonne Kason: That the higher power was like, was not an old man with a long white beard judging me. Are you good or you bad? So, you know, that was an, at an early age, that was, I was, uh, 26 when that happened. So I was still pretty young. It’s like, okay, you know what? I’ve been taught about God or the higher power, I’m experiencing something completely different.

[01:19:39] Yvonne Kason: So, you know, I was o open to that, you know, maybe who knows, who knows what’s real about historical Jesus. But, um, the message of love I thought was bang on the message of love one another and forgive, forgive, seven times 77 or whatever the number is like that in my heart absolutely resonated as truth and with what I experienced of the higher powers love on the other side.

[01:20:04] Yvonne Kason: When I traveled to, to Israel in 2000, I was actually on a medical conference on a, on a, on a cruise ship, Mediterranean. And we had ports of call in Israel and in Egypt. And, um, you know, I thought, okay, I’ll go to some of these historical sites. I really was not, I wasn’t even sure if they were accurately located, like the cruise director said, you know, they may or may not be historically accurate, but this is supposedly where Jesus, for example, did the, uh, sermon on the Mount.

[01:20:33] Yvonne Kason: Some people think it is, some people think it isn’t. So okay, I went there to, to go to this particular site. Well, when I went to this particular site, I had a most profound, intense spiritual experience, a type of mystical experience. It was like, I just felt, um, like, like, like this force. Descended upon me, but it wasn’t just a force of love.

[01:21:01] Yvonne Kason: It was like a, um, almost like a trial by fire. It was like I was being purified. I was being cleansed. My, my heart was being opened. It was like my own, um, you know, people would use the word evil, but, you know, whatever darkness was inside of me, it was like literally, I, I, I felt like my heart was opening and I was crying, and it was, it was, it, it was almost a combination of, of tears, of shame and tears of gratitude.

[01:21:35] Yvonne Kason: Is that, is that, that that, oh my goodness. You know, the, the, the parts of me that had been unloving or the parts of me that had been, um, uh, unforgiving or the parts of me that, that, you know, I really could have been kinder. It, it was like that was all sort of being exposed and cleansed at the same time and sort of opening my heart, the energy of.

[01:21:56] Yvonne Kason: The healing profound and found energy I was feeling and then just a knowing, oh my gosh, this is the correct spot. This is this healing, this love, this incredible love vibration of Jesus is still on this spot. And it was like, yeah, he existed and he was here. Now you might say that’s all subjective, but I’m basing it on what I experienced there.

[01:22:28] Yvonne Kason: It was like it was a profound, life-changing, heart opening experience that happened spontaneously when I was not expecting it. And um, when I went to. Jerusalem the next day on the shore excursion. Um, and just cuz we we’re running outta time, um, I’m gonna just say it very, very briefly and I describe it in the book at at the crucifixion site there was a slab of rock where they supposedly had laying the body of Jesus, historical Jesus after he was taken down from the cross.

[01:23:01] Yvonne Kason: And again, maybe it’s the right rock, maybe it’s not the right knock, who knows? But I’m very, having had multiple NDEs and the Kundolini Way thing, I’m very clear sentient. When I touch things, I will often get information. And so I decided to kneel down and to touch this particular rock and. I immediately went into a profound mystical experience.

[01:23:25] Yvonne Kason: Now, I have to tell you, I go around touching rocks a lot. I don’t pop into mystical experiences. I go sight seeing a lot. I don’t just pop into these profound, mystical experiences. I mean, these were life-changing mystical experiences at two spots that were, that were claimed to have been associated with historical Jesus.

[01:23:45] Yvonne Kason: So to me, now you asked me do I think historical Jesus actually existed, and I say yes, based on

Marker

[01:23:55] Yvonne Kason: those two experiences that I I had in Israel were his teachings completely probably misinterpreted. ,

[01:24:01] Alex Tsakiris: see, that’s the problem. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the historic, I mean, it.

[01:24:07] Alex Tsakiris: It could be complete consistent with the historical Jesus. Mm-hmm. And it could not. , one of the interviews I really appreciated a long time ago was, , Jurgen Ziba, , who’s an incredible mystique, and he tells a story about going to Greece and going to that island where the monks were all there, and the guy lowers the, the chandelier down and it reveals this icon.

[01:24:28] Alex Tsakiris: And I was brought up Greek Orthodox, and the tears are just flowing, and he’s having this Christ consciousness experience, you know, and it’s beautiful. He comes back the next day and then I go, but Jurgen, you’re not Christian. He goes, yeah, no, I’m still not Christian. You know? God, it, it, it’s totally understandable.

[01:24:46] Alex Tsakiris: Also from a Buddhist perspective, from a topa perspective, it’s like if we put collectively billions of people over the years, our energy into these stories, into these accounts, then it’s real on some level. It’s also useful, I think, to look at the historical accounts, look at Josephus, look at a poncho pilot.

[01:25:06] Alex Tsakiris: Does that story really make any sense? Do the New Testament make any sense? All the contradictions, all the rest of that, all that has to be examined. Here’s the points that, that I guess I, I kind of really also kind of work with and, and have. So do you think global warming is an imminent threat to, to Gaia, to Mother Earth?

[01:25:26] Alex Tsakiris: No. Okay. Do you think if someone in our

[01:25:30] Yvonne Kason: culture, you’re just asking my opinions, I’m being honest.

(rumble version )

[01:25:33] Alex Tsakiris: That’s great. Uh, who side are you on the truckers or Trudeau? Both. So Trudeau’s Okay. To lock down people and force ’em to take the jab

[01:25:43] Alex Tsakiris: to some people. Yep. Why The jab is good. I have had four shots. Okay. That says a lot. Mm-hmm. Um, and how, how do you process that? See, like, say, this is interesting from a spiritual perspective,

[01:25:56] Yvonne Kason: I’ll tell you why I got them because I was opposed to them at first.

[01:25:59] Yvonne Kason: And yes, we still have freedom of choice in Canada. I, I, I’ve met Trudeau, he’s a yogi and I respect him, but you know how news is and politics is, you get a quarter of the story and the rest of it’s distorted. But, um, but I’m a grandmother. I’m a new grandmother. Okay. I had, I had a little baby grandson and I didn’t want to take the risk that by me.

[01:26:24] Yvonne Kason: Being concerned about the jab that I was increasing my little beloved grant, I wanted to hold him in my arms and feel that I was doing whatever I could to, to keep him safe in a, in a time of great uncertainty. And when I prayed and meditated about it, I thought, okay, I’ll take the hit. If I’m injecting poisoning myself, I’m gonna take the hit because my concern for my grandson was greater than my concern for myself.

[01:26:49] Yvonne Kason: And that’s the honest truth. That’s why I did it. Well, that’s fine.

[01:26:52] Alex Tsakiris: And, uh, I don’t mind, I don’t mind the reason and the logic behind it. Mm-hmm. , I think that’s great. I mean, someone could look at it the other way in terms of, you know, the dangers and do we really wanna do that and all the rest of that.

[01:27:01] Alex Tsakiris: But, , covid as a bio weapon, right. , gain a function in a lab, in right China. Yes. Mm-hmm.

[01:27:09] Yvonne Kason: Yes or no? Absolutely.

[01:27:12] Alex Tsakiris: Well, okay, so then

[01:27:14] Yvonne Kason: that was obvious from the word go. I mean, we knew that three years ago.

(end Rumble version)

[01:27:19] Alex Tsakiris: So here’s the point. Oh oh, one more that’s important, more and more relevant to our thing. If someone said, our culture is in a spiritual war, is that something you would relate to or not relate to

[01:27:35] Yvonne Kason: I would say that there’s always a spiritual war going on on many levels.

[01:27:40] Yvonne Kason: There’s a spiritual war going on within each individual every day with every choice that we make, you know, multiple choices. We have to, and it’s not black and white. And I look at it as it, that it, it is. How we grow and learn and our society. Absolutely. We’re going through all sorts of, , let’s call ’em, I just use a different vocabulary.

[01:28:01] Yvonne Kason: You call it a war, I’d call it growing pains, you know,

[01:28:05] Alex Tsakiris: well, who, who’s on the other side of that war? That’s, that’s what really begs the question is mm-hmm. Is there some kind of

[01:28:10] Yvonne Kason: ignorance? A dark force, selfishness, malevolence. Yeah. You know, that’s a battle between light and dark. It’s, it’s, it’s the way the cosmic design works.

[01:28:20] Yvonne Kason: And, , yeah, we have the opportunity to make choices every day. And yes, I’d say there’s a spiritual battle going on, but, uh, so when I interviewed

[01:28:29] Alex Tsakiris: pm m h pm m h at water, and w we had a problem because she. Conflate some IQ numbers and I really kind of called her on that. But her research is really important in some of the things that she’s doing.

[01:28:41] Alex Tsakiris: And she’s looking at near death experiences in very young individuals. Yes.

[01:28:46] Yvonne Kason: In

[01:28:46] Alex Tsakiris: children. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she’s in, in this latest book that she does, it’s even not even younger than children. She’s going like under two years old and she’s saying all these differences and stuff like that. One of the stories that she relates in there, not a story, it’s her account, it’s the person that she talked to born into a satanic ritual abuse cult, has multiple, multiple, , autobody slash near-death experiences.

[01:29:09] Alex Tsakiris: Extremely traumatic.

[01:29:11] Yvonne Kason: She comes Yeah. In the context of abuse. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[01:29:14] Alex Tsakiris: Right. She comes to understand, these are her words. We read it from pm H’s book, that her purpose was to light the sh heart chakra of these individuals in her family who. Had lost their way so completely that they didn’t realize they were connected to God.

[01:29:36] Alex Tsakiris: Now these are terms that you and I can relate to and understand as being true more or less. I do, but I don’t hold onto, I hold onto ’em very loosely because I don’t know for sure any of the rest of that. But this has a ring of, this could be true, and the implications for it in terms of that spiritual battle are interesting.

[01:29:57] Alex Tsakiris: I think the light is a billion times stronger than the dark, but understanding that there is a, a push towards that there souls being lost is not an accident. It’s, it’s a choice that people are making and those choices we need to be careful with and need to understand better. And there’s a whole bunch of stuff that I’ll toss your way to try and process there.

[01:30:24] Alex Tsakiris: I’m not sure

[01:30:24] Yvonne Kason: what your question is and all that.

[01:30:26] Alex Tsakiris: Well, I think you, , you’ve been pretty quick about answering the questions. What is the nature of this, , spiritual war? Are we to resist it? How do we resist it? There’s a million questions, sir.

[01:30:38] Yvonne Kason: Sorry, reframe the question. To me it’s about what are we to do with the darkness?

[01:30:41] Yvonne Kason: Why is there the darkness? What, what exactly. I think it’s super interesting

[01:30:45] Alex Tsakiris: that of all the questions, I couldn’t even get all the questions out on this question. I’ve already repeated it twice and I’m gonna repeat it a third time. Okay. What is that? What is that hitting in you about this darkness? Back to the story of the woman who’s born into, which is interesting, did she choose to be born into she?

[01:31:07] Alex Tsakiris: Her story is that later she realizes that this was, maybe what she was supposed to do is be there to. Ignite the heart chakra of these people that had totally lost her way and she has no more contact with her family. And she obviously thinks it’s horrible, the, the abuse that they’ve inflicted on her and other people.

[01:31:27] Alex Tsakiris: But it raises some very, , big, big questions about the extended realm, the role that we play, who’s in charge, what the goal is. Yeah. It’s not all love and light.

[01:31:40] Yvonne Kason: Well, you know, it’s a very complicated question and I, I don’t even pretend to have all the answers, but what, what I, what I understand is that when we, from, based on my own experiences and also spiritual reading over the years, , is that, but mainly I’m going to say based on my own personal experiences, particularly a last one when I was dead and remembered all my past lives and then was given the choice whether or not to come back was, is that, We come back and incarnate for various reasons.

[01:32:15] Yvonne Kason: And how I understand it is one of the reasons we come back, and I’ve explained this quite I think earlier on in, in our interview today, is we come back to learn that our particular souls have particular lessons that we can learn in this particular, , situation. And, and that that massive intelligence, mega, mega computer, which is the higher power, , has the intellectual, , past, present, future consciousness capacity to determine, Hey, this, this would be a good place for your soul to incarnate with these parents in this time in history.

[01:32:51] Yvonne Kason: And then like a magnet, sh your soul is like drawn to that place and you incarnate there. I, I think that’s what happens with the majority of people. I don’t think it’s that simple. There may be other reasons why people incarnate and another, you know, cuz I’m, I’m, I have learned enough to know how little, I know that there is much more that I do not know, uh, and to always be open, that I’m only aware of a small portion of, of whatever it is.

[01:33:22] Yvonne Kason: That is the ultimate reality. But another thing that I have learned along the way is that, and it happened to me, is that sometimes people are sent back to serve. That your rule was to serve others. Now let’s take Jesus, that soul that was in Jesus, I think was a soul. You know, extremely advanced. God realized soul probably, and he incarnated in the physical body of Jesus.

[01:33:55] Yvonne Kason: In my opinion, this is my opinion. You can disagree with me. In order to serve. He was an avatar of light, and he was there to carry, give a strong spiritual message to a time that was very dark, that was very much in need of the light, the message of love and forgiveness, and love one another. And we are all God’s children.

[01:34:16] Yvonne Kason: , so, but other people can be sent back to serve. I’m not, I’m not a Jesus, I’m just me. , but the choice that I was given was to serve, you know, to serve in the body of a baby, or to serve in the injured body. And, , before I died, that had become very much a part of what made life meaningful to me. My, my, my sort of mantra or prayer was a prayer of St.

[01:34:41] Yvonne Kason: Francis, make me a, a channel of your peace. Make me a channel of your love. I wanted to be an instrument of the divine to help others on the planet. That that is how my near death experiences and mystical experiences changed me. They changed me from a person. Sorry, that’s my alarm for my next meeting.

[01:34:59] Yvonne Kason: They changed me from a person who was doing things for me to a person who wanted to help others that perceived myself as part of a global community, wanted to help others. And so serving others was very important to my, to me. And clearly my coming back has been to serve, you know, that, that my healing has not been for me to go off and take big holidays.

[01:35:29] Yvonne Kason: It’s to serve, I, you know, writing books. It’s till three in the morning so that to help other people, that’s the only reason I write the books. I mean, I’m not making money on these books. If you’ve ever written books, you know you don’t make money. Awesome. And I put a lot of effort out into letting people know that we are, spiritual experiences are real.

[01:35:51] Yvonne Kason: They’re not just a sign of mental illness as they historically have been labeled, you know, for the last few hundred years. They’re also not all work of the devil that, that some churches might wanna put all spiritual and psychic experiences work of the devil, but they’re very real phenomenon that are happening to people today.

[01:36:10] Yvonne Kason: They can have very challenging after effects. That’s a whole other discussion, but they also have very positive after effects. And, and that’s what I want to sort of wrap up with is that however we interpret them that, that most people who’ve had near death experiences and certainly I would say all who’ve had mystical near death experiences and others who’ve had genuine, who’ve had other types of mystical experiences.

[01:36:40] Yvonne Kason: There’s, there’s like this common theme, however we understand it, however we interpret it, there appears to be this loving, intelligent force behind the universe. , and the awareness of that puts a smile on my face, a smile on my heart that, you know, we’re not alone in this battle. That there is this loving force.

[01:37:02] Yvonne Kason: And, and I’m gonna end with my last message, which was miracles do happen. And, and that, that no matter how, you know, sometimes I look at what’s happening on the planet and I’m just like, oh, Lord, how are we ever gonna get through this? But hey, I have to trust that somehow with enough people doing their little part on the planet, that as a collective, that we’re gonna, we’re gonna come through.

[01:37:27] Yvonne Kason: There always is hope for a brighter tomorrow.

[01:37:31] Alex Tsakiris: Again, our guest has been Dr. Yvonne Kasan, her books that you wanna check out, soul Lessons from the Light and touched by the Light. Yvonne. Great. Having Yvonne, you withstood a lot of pushback, which. I love it. It helps. It was fun. Take

[01:37:50] Yvonne Kason: care. It was great talking with you, Alex.

[01:37:53] Yvonne Kason: Okay, take care. Bye now.

.

[01:37:55] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks again to Dr. Von caisson for joining me today on skeptical.

[01:37:58] Alex Tsakiris: The one question I’d have from this interview. And I keep asking a bunch of different ways, but I’ll ask it in yet. Another way. How do we push forward with. Research with science, if you will.

[01:38:11] Alex Tsakiris: In this area. You don’t want to tell. It was really interesting is the clip I played at the beginning .

[01:38:16] Alex Tsakiris: From the movie contact is about. 80 contact. And yet it’s really about. Transformative experiences. I would even go so far as to say. Spiritually transformative experiences. So. Kind of interesting that. Way back in. 1997. They were already saying the connections. That avant has lived through and documented with her many great books. Well, that’s going to do it for this episode of skeptical. Thank you so much for joining me, do contact me. If you’d like to help out with the show. If you have a guest that you are just dying to bring on the show, let me know. And we can probably work that out.

[01:38:57] Alex Tsakiris: Until next time. Take care. And bye for now.

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