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Steven Snider, looks deeply into the politics and social engineering behind QAnon.

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[00:00:00] Clip: I forgot how like this, how polarizing that OJ case was anal. I’ve met OJ Simpson on four different occasions in my life. And before the end of the show, I will tell you about each of those occasions.

[00:00:16] Alex Tsakiris: That’s of course the one and only Dave Chappelle from his standup. Special on Netflix, which now he’s paying from Netflix, which is. Kind of interesting, but that’s fits in so well with Dave Chappelle. Cause he’s not just a comedian, he’s the truth.

Teller truth seeker warrior.

And that makes this clip kind of a nice fit for today’s show with the very excellent guy, really like, and respect, even though we disagree all over the place on some of the most important, fundamental issues to me. That is Stephen Snyder, recluse host of the farm podcast and author of some great books.

I’m going to tell you about. But the thing about OJ that Chappelle is talking about. Is.

Is really interesting. In a couple of ways back to Dave.

[00:01:01] Clip: At the time I was 18, I had done a show and then the guy from the club came up and was like, Hey, OJ, Simpson’s here. And he said, he wants to meet you. I said, fuck it. I ran down the steps and OJ was down. There was like, here you go, man. Over you was very good to meet you and you do really good work and I hope good things happen for you in your life.

I was like, man, thanks Mr. Juice standing. Well, I don’t know the nice way to say this is soon to be slain wife, ladies and gentlemen, man, the fuck up. You’re not going to make it through the end of this shit.

[00:01:42] Alex Tsakiris: So I’m really tempted to jump in with some kind of commentary about what Chappelle’s saying there, but I want to relate it back to the show. So here’s a clip from this conversation that Steven and I have about pizza gate pizza gate.

Which is the OJ Simpson murder trial of this episode. Here’s the clip.

[00:02:01] Steven Snider: And this is kind of similar to how you would start a disinformation campaign, , , I mean, honestly, if you were a psychological warfare officer, why wouldn’t you be interested in this kind of stuff?

, historically disinformation usually had some kind of a basis in reality. I mean, that’s what made it really effective, but now we’ve kind of gotten into the whole. Pizza gate era where, you know, I think that this is a disinformation campaign, but I mean, it has almost no basis in reality.

[00:02:27] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. So now we can go back to analyzing the Dave Chappelle clip. Because the reason I think that Dave Chappelle clip is so funny is because we all know. That OJ killed his wife. And then we even know that there’s this racial component Intuit in that the jury was probably influenced by the fact that Rodney king was mauled and almost killed by the LA police and that they use that they played the racial card and all that stuff, but the guy not to play it with as OJ glue, do. He really did the crime, but this crazy mixed up world, that’s how we sort through things. But the thing is we know, oh, GA did it in that’s what makes it funny?

my pushback on Steven in this interview is. Pizza gate is real. That’s what makes it funny. The fact that they turned it into a joke is what makes it interesting.

 

[00:03:21] Alex Tsakiris: Cause we’re getting down to stuff then we’re just going to kind of. Disagree on from a kind of factual basis, philosophically in your approach to it, I’m down with 1000%. Now we just drill into some of the data points and see where we get. So let me try and do that. Here is pizza gate. As we understand it, play in the clip from good morning America

[00:03:44] Clip: it’s a restaurant, a gunman with an assault rifle targeting a Washington DC spot. That’s at the center of a fake news story about Hillary Clinton and a close aid.

Our senior justice correspondent, Pierre Thomas is there in Washington, has all the details for us. Good morning, Pierre. Good morning, Robin. This case shows how fake news can lead to a dangerous situation.

[00:04:04] Alex Tsakiris: Oh my God. Oh my God. Steven. We are completely at odds on that because I believe that is the fake news.

That is the story. The story is , this crazy conspiracy theorist goes into this innocent pizza parlor and shoots it up. , what it’s really about is this person, Mariana Abramovich and it’s about these emails, these real emails that are revealed in the WikiLeaks dump of emails that were by the way, designed to submarine Hillary , Clinton in her campaign, these emails were released four days before the election.

Oh, what a coincidence. What is she doing? Hanging around with this person? What is she doing? Going to the spirit, cooking parties, holding up pictures of kids being abused.

 

[00:04:57] Clip: The second time I met OJ Simpson

I was sitting in the corner of the. He leaned over all the white people. I was having dinner with him and shook my hand. How are you young man? He looked in my eyes and I could see in his eyes that he didn’t remember meeting me the first time. And then he walked away and I looked back at my agents and all of them had nothing short of disgust on their faces.

And the only one with the courage to voice they discussed was a woman named Sharon. They used to refer. How could you, she said, could you shake hands with that murderer? I said, Jim, with all due respect, that murderer ran for over 11,000 yards

[00:05:50] Alex Tsakiris: Chappelle is a genius at playing with the truth in a way that makes us laugh, feel good and not. Alienate anybody too bad. Unless you’re Netflix. Of course. I’m not so gifted in that regard. Kind of like straight ahead. But that’s why it’s good to have a ride along with somebody like today’s guest Stephen Snyder, because even in my bull, in the China shop way. We were able to plow through some really, really interesting stuff, not just about pizza gate, but about Stargate and MK ultra in 80, and you will Bose and spirituality and all the stuff that really matters. And that you don’t hear enough of. And you know, what that’s lead into is a pitch for you to join me.

In a dialogue about this stuff. , So you’re listening now, share it with someone else and then engage with me. I’d love to hear what you think, especially if you’re thinking about this stuff deeply and you’re not just. Kind of trolling around the stuff, but give me some new information. That’s what, that’s the juice for me? Is when people share new information with me.

That is important, real credible, and that, then I can expand my knowledge. That’s what makes me feel really great. So please engage with skeptical in that way. That’s what I ask of you. And in exchange, I’ll give you good interviews like this one coming up with recluse. Welcome to skeptical where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Garrison. Today we welcome Stephen Snyder, a K a recluse back to skeptical. Stephen is the author of several books and he’s actually wrapping up a new book on the Q Anon thing.

And we’re certainly going to want to talk about that, but he published last year, a special relationship, Trump Epstein and the secret history of the Anglo American establishment. If you can grok that title, you might begin to understand Stephen’s world. Here’s another title, strange tales of the pair of political postwar, Nazis, mercenaries, and other secret history.

Excellent book. He made the rounds on some great shows on that one as well. , Steven is also the creator and host of the farm. Very excellent podcast, deep dive, deep para political stuff. Deep conspiracy paranormal has become the new normal kind of stuff. , but what I particularly really, really appreciate about Stephen’s work and the reason I wanted to have him on, and we’re going to do maybe kind of a different show here is the trend in this whole topic area is so much towards conspirators movement, uh, in podcasting.

And that has never been what this guy is about. And I feel we share this thing of like, well, let’s try our best to figure this stuff out. If you want to listen and it’s entertaining. That’s great. But what we’re really trying to do is figure this stuff out. So that’s the spirit I bring to this dialogue, Stephen.

It’s awesome to have you back. Thanks for joining

[00:09:18] Steven Snider: me. Well, thanks for having me back again, Alex, it’s always a pleasure to be on skeptical.

[00:09:23] Alex Tsakiris: What do you think about that conspiracy tainment thing?

[00:09:27] Steven Snider: That’s actually going to be the, , part of the name of my Q book. That’s coming up, um, the secret history of conspiracy payments, but yeah, yeah, no, I definitely think that’s kind of like a.

The direction we’re going in. I mean, what Alex Jones is practically the new rush Limbaugh in 2021, right? So it’s, uh, it’s become quite an industry.

[00:09:48] Alex Tsakiris: Well, you know, and, and I’m really want to pull that apart because like, this is the thing. And, um, I’m not gonna apologize for the level three dialogue we’re about to have, because we’re going to be jumping right in the middle of stuff.

And then for folks who are like, what are you guys talking about? Go listen to the farm. I mean, these guys do two and a half hours all the time on stuff. That’s just incredibly dense with, you know, citations of factual sources. Here’s where we got this, connecting it with this. And I really appreciate that.

And the other thing I appreciate that is that, you know, recluse and his guests are generally coming from, well, not the red side of the political spectrum, and I’m not going to say they’re definitely coming from the blue side, but they’re kind of leaning in that direction. I’m very apolitical. I do not understand anyone who kind of buys into any of that narrative anymore.

It just seems we’re so, so past that, but I appreciate that you are in that same spirit of kind of. Para political conspiracy, paranormal stuff, pointing to the other side and going, you know, you guys are kind of completely blind spot on all of this stuff, which is what the Q Anon stuff, which maybe we can even lead into that and talk about, and people will get a sense of that.

But do you have any thoughts on, you know, the political spectrum where you fall, how you try and process that from a really, really high level, big picture?

[00:11:32] Steven Snider: , well, I, you know, I personally kind of consider myself to be like a bit of a centralist. I mean, a lot of my right wing friends consider me to be a far left winger.

A lot of my left wing friends concerned me to be a bit conservative. , I think my ex considered me to be a quasi far rightist or something like that. Uh, so, you know, honestly, I mean, I just enjoy hearing different perspectives on a lot of things. So, I mean, I try to keep an open mind in terms of guests.

I mean, I probably agree with less than 50% of what most of my guests believe in that I have on, but I think it’s important to challenge your beliefs. And that’s kind of something that I tried to do with the farm is I want to have guests on that are going to be provocative and possibly give the listeners and the worldview that they’re not normally exposed to.

, I think it was ironically cruelly was who I learned that from yet. That what suggested that you should read one publication a day from a source that you absolutely despised and see if you can mentally punk goods. I mean, I think that’s a great concept. I mean, that’s, you know, partly something that I tried to do for myself every day and, you know, hopefully, I mean, if the farm does challenge your worldview, I mean, then it’s done it’s purpose.

Partly

[00:12:40] Alex Tsakiris: that definitely comes through. It’s awesome. And it’s not, oh, it’s just less and less common as you know. So w with that, you know, maybe the place to start. I’m super excited to see this new book when it comes out, let’s start with Q Anon and maybe at a very high level, , give people the scoop, your scoop, the recluse scoop on what people don’t know.

Cause I, I still, you know, have a problem kind of communicating with people about this.

[00:13:12] Steven Snider: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, you know, it’s certainly quite fascinating. I mean, it’s been a deep dive, you know, trying to get in. So the intricacies of it and tried to see if there was actually a, you know, if it was just sort of a Lark that was randomly started, that the, you know, potentially X intelligence officers latched on to, was it something that was always kind of intended to be, uh, um, an operation is a connected to the Cambridge analytic and network, you know, I mean, how complicated to some of the technology that’s being used in it, or a lot of these guys, just a bunch of internet trolls and it’s been massively overblown.

And then on top of that, I mean, a lot of the people involved seem like they’ve created their own ethos. I mean, in the case of at least, you know, one of the participants, I mean, I’ve, you know, possession of probably thousands of emails that this person has sent out now. And I mean, I think a good chunk of them were sent with the purpose of the notion that they were going to be leaked, you know, eventually.

So there’s already, I think, kind of this air of like trying to create a certain or a certain narrative, even in some of these email chains that we’re gonna go back to like 20 16, 20 17. So yeah, it’s, uh, It’s certainly, I mean, quite a journey that’s for sure. And, um, ironically, I think it kind of made me a discordian in the process of investigating this whole thing.

I mean, really, you can’t understand Q if you don’t understand discordian autism. So,

[00:14:31] Alex Tsakiris: But I want to crawl on top of this because sometimes we are going to lose people. The basic premise of your work is buried in what you just said is that Q Anon is best understood as an operation PSYOP. And I always like to say best understood because I think there’s another subtlety there that I’m not sure we’re in sync on.

Totally. And that’s that, I’m not sure that all the people that. Involved in Q Anon, even at a pretty high level we’re necessarily in, on, uh, the operation. And if that is the case, that would certainly parallel every fricking thing we’ve ever seen in the past. That it’s always, co-opted, it’s always there in, in, in so many of these things.

And I can’t even say always, sometimes these operations are organically fake from the beginning. Sometimes there is a kernel of realness to them, and then they are co-opted, we’re going to talk about ITI and UFO. Certainly that’s a case of the, where there was a genuine community and they were certainly infiltrated and certainly co-opted, but there’s many other ones.

Back in the sixties, the whole movement, the whole hippie movement, the whole new age movement. Co-opted co-opted co-opted, you know, so Timothy Leary co-opted and then, you know, the, occupy wall street, same thing, you know, you document this over and over and over again in the show.

So, um, I’m kind of rambling there, but let’s bring it back to Q Anon and I’ll bring it to a direct question that I don’t know how you’re going to answer this. Is there anything real in case. Well,

[00:16:19] Steven Snider: how can I, I mean, what exactly are you talking about? Like, are there people who were involved in it who were true believers?

Are you talking about, is any of the information in it real? Like what specifically are you asking is

[00:16:29] Alex Tsakiris: real that’s tricky. Like all this stuff just has to be pulled apart because true believers aren’t real true. Believers are true believers. I differentiate between true believers and people who are real, who are drawn to a cause a community, a sense of getting things out.

So I don’t have any time for true believers. Like you said, at the beginning, unless people are willing to kind of sort through and find out. I think people were, I think really intelligent people, smart people who had facts were pulled into some of the the reality that is behind Q Anon.

But I don’t know if you feel the same way.

[00:17:13] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, I think in terms of like, were there people who were drawn into the queue thing who genuinely believed in what they were doing, who thought that they had good intentions?

You thought that they were doing something patriotic? I mean, yeah. I think

[00:17:24] Alex Tsakiris: that that real information that’s when I’m saying

, here, I’m going to pull them up on the screen. Now this is, this is like, to me, it’s almost like ground zero, Dr. Steve pathogenic.

and you’re you kinda like, you woke me a little bit to what’s going on here, but if you look at Steve pathogenic and who he is, he’s a real dude. I mean, he really was involved in the state department in overthrowing governments, which isn’t a very nice thing, but he was the guy, he was the point guy.

And he not only wrote those spy novels, but he lived them in the point is that when Steve goes on, Alex Jones, his show, and here it is from Alex Jones band, that video, which side note degression, you notice that band.video, which is his new website, is now searchable in Google. Isn’t that funny?

All of a sudden the videos pop up that are searching interesting. Alex Jones is banned or is he banned, but here I’m going to play a clip here

[00:18:34] Clip: the New York times is going on. The Washington post is going under Simon and Schuster is going on. Then they’re trying to make the best.

At the same time, there are arrests being made in Florida. Over 300 to 700 people were arrested in Northern Florida, Southern Florida with regards to illegal activity and pedophilia. That’s the other element that we’d been looking at the military has been deployed all over the United States.

Uh, we’re quiet about it. And at the same time, I will guarantee you Biden will not become president of the United States

[00:19:14] Alex Tsakiris: okay. Classic.

[00:19:16] Steven Snider: It was an ankle

[00:19:17] Alex Tsakiris: bracelet. He was going to say,

yeah, I think he did. I think it was what he’s gonna say. So look folks, because I get into discussions, arguments, debates with people like this. Isn’t like ancient history. This is like a year ago and this is Steve. Magenic a guy who’s a definitely an insider. Definitely. When he says he has context. I mean, he definitely has fucking contacts.

There is no doubt. He is well connected and he’s saying this stuff, and if nothing else, it just turns out not to be true. Biden did become president and they didn’t arrest all those people. And they, the New York times didn’t go under and all the rest of that, this is what drives. People who are kind of anti queue or woken up about it’s an operation.

I mean, how do we process this? Steven, let me just throw it out there. How do you process the pathogenic

[00:20:10] Steven Snider: in terms of like what he’s saying? I think actually, I mean, just from years of like looking at the UFO field, I mean, this kind of behavior doesn’t really surprise me because I mean, this is sort of indicative of how a lot of experts have operated within the UFO community for years now.

I mean, one of the things I’ve been sort of looking at is the origins of the aviary. And, um, obviously there’s been a lot of stories given about that. I mean, a popular one was that, , meeting in 1986 at beaver Creek, Ohio at, uh, Ernie Keller Strauss’s place, who was a Colonel in the air force who had worked at, , the foreign technologies divisions for a lot of years now, Ernie is the one who made a lot of pretty incredible claims specifically.

It seems like he’s the one where some of these claims about the red and the yellow book originated from, you know, supposedly there’s this book that we have, that the extra terrestrials gave us the Chronicles, the whole history of their involvement with us, that the Pentagon, you know, derives information from also the whole notion that there was some kind of, you know, alien exchange program that later turned up in Serbo.

, there were two different sources you confirm this one was Robert Collins who claimed that he had heard these tales from Eichler straws in 1986. And then Bruce McCabe, I believe who claimed that he had heard the same claims in 1985. And in turn Keller stress claimed that he was told this by Dale Graff, I believe who was one of the big guys running the remote viewing program and the DIA and that this unfolded during the late 1970s.

So. You know, there’s a lot about this. Hey, this guy is saying some absolutely insane stuff, and this is coming from an ex air force Colonel. And then on top of that, he’s citing graph who was a big guy in all this remote viewing stuff for the DIA. And as far

as

[00:21:51] Steven Snider: I can tell nobody’s ever even bothered to ask BRAF, if any of this was true.

I mean,

that’s the thing that I find most remarkable about this as Keller straws is claims have been out there. I think for at least 15 years since Maccabi published Hawk tales in 2005, and nobody’s even asked this other senior CIA officer or DIA officer, excuse me. W do you think that there’s an extraterrestrial book that the Pentagon has that they’re using to view the future with?

I mean, that seems like it would be an interesting question to ask, but apparently nobody’s done it

[00:22:22] Alex Tsakiris: yet. So, but Steven, if we’re going to get, if we are going to get into the ITI and the UFO thing, but tie it back to, if you can tie it back to the Q Anon thing and the Steve thing, because again, I tell ya, and first of all, we are in a diff we are already in a different world, right?

This conversation. If you talk to normies about all this stuff, you can not. Begin to even have this conversation. So let’s at least keep it.

[00:22:54] Steven Snider: I mean, the thing is, is it’s like there’s been this sort of component with like LARPers and what have you, which is something

[00:23:00] Alex Tsakiris: Explain LARPers to people just.

[00:23:02] Steven Snider: Live action role play. So, and I mean, okay. You could probably factor in elements, like from the discordian notion of like operation mind, fuck, which is, you know, a very elaborate LARPer live action role play, where you’re essentially trying to reorient somebody’s, uh, worldview through a kind of performance art or something to that effect.

So the thing about operation mindfuck, which was a total, you know, off shoot of discording as an encounter culture in the sixties, is that it essentially operates in the same, you know, very supremacists, a dis information campaign does. I mean, the way that, you know, Kerry Thornley and Robert Anton Wilson kind of started a lot of this stuff as they started sending random letters to people in the media, then they would have other people, you know, over at fellow to score and send letters out and try to create this notion that there was a, an Illuminati conspiracy in the counterculture.

And this is kind of similar to how you would start a disinformation campaign, um, with, you know, the public at large. I mean, there was the, um, gosh, the famous psychic spying incident from like the late 1950s where they had, what was it, shock Berge or like plan a story in a French newspaper. But the Soviet had gotten interested in about the Navy doing, um, essentially ESP experiments with submarines.

It doesn’t seem like any of this was real at all. It was just a false story that was planted. So. You know, this is something that spooks do all the time. And it was kind of something that was probably subconsciously picked up in some way by the counterculture, by elements of the yuppies, the accordions, and a lot of these other kinds of pranksters.

And at some point, I mean, who knows maybe the spooks observed this kind of stuff and saw that it was extremely effective. I mean, you know, the Illuminati, for instance, almost nobody get really heard of about the late 1960s. I believe in 2021, almost 30 million people believe that the Illuminati are a real thing in this day and age.

So that’s a pretty, you know, it’s not a bad achievement. I mean, honestly, if you were a psychological warfare officer, why wouldn’t you be interested in this kind of stuff? So I think that potentially opened up this soul sort of world to them where, you know, you’re seeing this like outright absurdity and it seems like this kind of factored into how, you know, we were doing disinformation campaigns.

I mean, historically disinformation usually had some kind of a basis in reality. I mean, that’s what made it really effective, but now we’ve kind of gotten into the whole. Pizza gate era where, you know, I think that this is a disinformation campaign, but I mean, it has almost no basis in reality. I mean, unlike something like the Kennedy assassination or like nine 11, you know, we can question why or who assassinated Kennedy or, you know, who brought down the twin towers, but nobody really questions that John F.

Kennedy was assassinated or that the towers came down. You know what I’m saying? Like these were actually real events that, you know, most of humanity would agree occurred with pizza gates, you know, with the conventional narrative that there were Dungeons underneath this pizza parlor and that, you know, children number being brought out of there and sold to elites behind the back of the premise or something like that.

You know, this is a fantasy, it’s a fable. It doesn’t even have a basic symbol. It doesn’t even have any real simple ins to reality. Uh, I think it was a disinformation campaign that was, uh, initiated because of the whole thing with Epstein because of the stuff with, um, Jimmy salvo in the UK, because suddenly you started having this damning evidence coming out, but unlike kind of past us information campaigns where you would try to have some sort of basis and reality to it, uh, it was more or less like, let’s just see if we can create this full-blown fairy tale.

, that’s going to cry, you know, bring in all these other tropes that, I mean, some of these conspiracy theorists have been working on for years and, uh, and a lot of ways it’s, it’s led to a point where we’ve moved beyond conspiracy theory and we’re now in conspiracy fantasy or a conspiracy fiction or whatever you want to call it.

, it’s very interesting. I mean, it’s almost kind of to the extent, whereas previously conspiracy theory was, , a reaction to events that were playing out in the real world. You now have conspiracy fable that is essentially dictating the world for you to the public at large, if you will. Okay.

[00:27:12] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. So, so this is, this is great.

Cause we’re getting down to stuff then we’re just going to kind of. Disagree on from a kind of factual basis, philosophically in your approach to it, I’m down with 1000%. Now we just drill into some of the data points and see where we get. So let me try and do that. Here is pizza gate. As we understand it, play in the clip from good morning America

[00:27:40] Clip: it’s a restaurant, a gunman with an assault rifle targeting a Washington DC spot. That’s at the center of a fake news story about Hillary Clinton and a close aid.

Our senior justice correspondent, Pierre Thomas is there in Washington, has all the details for us. Good morning, Pierre. Good morning, Robin. This case shows how fake news can lead to a dangerous situation.

[00:28:00] Alex Tsakiris: Oh my God. Oh my God. Steven. We are completely at odds on that because I believe that is the fake news.

That is the story. The story is , this crazy conspiracy theorist goes into this innocent pizza parlor and shoots it up. Let me pull up something else on the screen.

But of course, what it’s really about is this person, Mariana Abramovich and it’s about these emails, these real emails that happened between John Podesta and a bunch of other people, but are revealed in the WikiLeaks dump of emails that were by the way, designed to submarine Hillary , Clinton in her campaign, these emails were released four days before the election.

Oh, what a coincidence. But they did play a note with Christian conservatives and with people in general and saying, what is this? What is our highest aid to the Hillary Clinton Clinton campaign, John Podesta? What is she doing? Hanging around with this person? What is she doing? Going to the spirit, cooking parties, holding up pictures or displaying pictures in their house of kids being abused.

And the thing that really surprises me about your answer is that the idea that this has completely just made it doesn’t have any connection to any real events is just easily kind of countered. I interviewed this person and a who is a real person who was sold by her mother into a satanic ritual abuse cult when she was six years old.

And she tells the whole story and she’s not lying because she was sold. She was in, in Holland and she was sold into the do troll cult. Right. And that was in the papers and the kids you’ll see them. If I scroll down here, we’re locked in these cages. And the kids actually died because they arrested do TRO.

Although he never really faced any serious charges. And they went and found the kids who had died. Cause he hadn’t come back to feed the kids. And Aanuka Lucas’s testimony is completely in sync with that. And she talks about being a young child and being brought to these castles and in identifying leaders, major leaders in Europe.

But you know, even you have Brisson on all the time, John Brisson, I mean, he’ll tell you the McMartin preschool thing and all these things they are, or the Franklin thing, those kids talk about going to these big mansions, going to all this. So I just don’t know to me, you’re kind of totally fallen for the head fake here.

And the head fake is the people were upset about pizza gate because of the satanic emails that were directly connected to Pedesta and people who don’t think there’s satanic ritual abuse. My God, I got so many interviews with. Including with an FBI agent 20 years who infiltrated the NAMBLA group, but all those people will tell you that this is very, very real stuff.

And there’s people engaged in that. So we’re in a, we’re at a little bit of an impasse, but I think it’s an important point because to me, this is the story. That story is good morning, America. Oh my God. That’s terrible. Conspiracy theorists in this terrible fake news. And this poor innocent guy who is so deep into this stuff, Alefantis that, oh, his pizza restaurant got shot up.

Uh we’re where are we? How come we’re not in sync on that?

[00:31:51] Steven Snider: Well, I’m not sure that we’re that far out of sync. I mean, I’m not disputing that there are abuse rings. I mean, I’ve written quite extensively on the Franklin scandal myself. Uh, I covered, you know, in my book, a special relationship. I mean, some of these purported parties have mansions and upstate New York that involved minor girls, and a lot of this kind of weird eyes, wide shut kind of thing.

, you know, I would also probably throw in a lot of the stuff with fundamentalist Mormonism, which I just did a presentation on a strange realities condom, which none of the people who get into the Pizzagate stuff ever seemed to really talk about a lot. Despite the, uh, brother litany of evidence that Warren Jeffs was running a major sex trafficking ring, or the fact that the, , LeBaron family were providing girls to Nexium from Mexico.

But yeah, that doesn’t really get dressed a lot. See the whole thing again, kind of getting back to what I’m saying with pizza gate is the substance of the allegations about comet ping pong. Alex, did you see any evidence at all that there were Dungeons beneath comet ping pong. Can you show that to me?

[00:32:53] Alex Tsakiris: Thank you. Well, th this one, I don’t understand when people draw that line, it’s like, we’re never gonna know. Any of this, we’re never there. There’s people who, you know, you went off on the Kennedy assassination. I’ll play you a clip in a minute if you want. I mean, cause there’ve been

[00:33:10] Steven Snider: like, has there been a single child who has actually come forward?

Who said specifically that they were abused at comet ping pong because plenty of people have come forward with the affair. They’ve come forward with Franklin. They’ve come forward with Epstein. But I mean, has anybody come forward those specifically who claims that they were held captive at pizza gate and the Dungeons underneath

[00:33:31] Alex Tsakiris: and here, let me try and respond to that.

I don’t think we’re at the point where we can answer that question. And the reason that we can’t, I would suggest is in the good morning America video, which to me, you know, we’ve both covered these kinds of things when it is covered up to that extent that don’t look here, don’t mention pizza gate.

Remember pizza gate was scrubbed from the internet. Remember James Ella Fontus became this person that should be defended over and over again rather than investigated. So the emails should have been fully investigated. The source of the emails should have been fully investigated. The implications of the emails should have been fully investigated, but they weren’t.

And the reason that they, and, and a method that they was used to cut. The board that investigation was this kind of fake news. Oh my God. Look at how dangerous these conspiracy theorists are. So we never got to the point where we can answer those questions. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that James Alefantis is up to his.

I won’t even say it. He’s up to his neck in this stuff. And he, uh, he is not clean in my opinion. Anyone who goes to, you know, the archived, all of his, , Instagram posts, all of his Facebook posts. It is not somebody who’s clean. Go look, go have anyone go look at it and say that and say, James Ella Fontas wants to babysit your kids this weekend.

What do you think anyone would say, fuck. No. So do we know, do we know if their kids are no, we don’t. Do we know that the whole thing was shut down in a very, very, just standard way that they shut these things down?

[00:35:10] Steven Snider: I mean, yes, Ella Fontus does seem to have some sketchy stuff in his background. And I mean, certainly some of the other customers that were there, but again, I just in looking at pizza gate, I don’t see the same kind of smoking gun evidence at the specific allegations as to what was happening at comet ping pong.

Cause I’m saying

[00:35:29] Alex Tsakiris: to you, why is it important to you that, that you nail that down to the

[00:35:31] Steven Snider: Chris needing proof? I mean, shouldn’t you demand? I mean, to me, it goes back to the whole notion. Extraordinary claims require

[00:35:38] Alex Tsakiris: extraordinary proof. It’s a complete, you know, what that’s, that’s one thing that scientists that skeptics use to attack science and do you know that is so unscientific.

It is because in science there’s no such thing as an extraordinary claim that assumes there’s some meta knowledge that there’s somebody up there that’s deciding. Well, that’s extraordinary that isn’t, that is extraordinary proof that isn’t that’s the whole purpose of science is to remove us from the biases that we know we have, I would say that’s the same thing in the conspiracy game.

We’re supposed to be removed from the fact that, you know, we are supposed to be. Where there’s smoke. There’s fire guys, because if we’re expecting to be firefighters and wait for the flames to be burning, it’s not going to happen that you know what, like the proof that you have with a Q Anon, it’s all going to be, it’s all going to be circumstantial.

You do a great job of, of trying to get us as close as we can. But I, I, in my opinion, we’re pretty damn close with Alefantis and comet ping-pong and the pattern that it, that it connects to so many of these other crimes against children. So I just don’t know why we have to kind of totally pull up and go, oh my God, that’s just a that’s fish versus fall.

A pizza gate. Pizza gate looks real enough to me. How come, how come we never talk about spirit cooking? Why did we even talk about pizza gate and not talk about spirit cooking? That’s what everyone was. Well, that’s what everyone was outraged about. How much do you,

[00:37:09] Steven Snider: I mean, how much play though on line, did spirit cooking this stuff?

Getting comparison to the stuff with Warren Jeffs though, or the LeBaron family’s connection to Nexium?

[00:37:19] Alex Tsakiris: Well, you know, if we were going to get into like, I’m much, much more anti-religion than you are, I think religions are, are our Colts up and down. I don’t understand like Warren Jeffs and Mormonism.

Extremely extremely a cultish leaning on cultish principles. It is, it’s just a cult. It just is a cult removed by a couple of generations. And I think the opportunities for abuse there are enormous. I think their connections to the darkest part of the Catholic church are well-documented. I think the sexual abuse that goes on inside the Mormon church and you can’t paint a broad brush, but I think it’s, it’s, there’s just too many accounts that apps are fricking lutely.

Are you kidding me? But I don’t understand what people who are of a Christian bent or orientation, how they, how they seek to separate themselves from, oh well that’s Warren Jeffs. Oh, that’s a David Koresh and the branch Davidians that, well that seventh day Adventists. No, they’re all, it’s all the same origins of the same cult.

And if you, you know what, I get in trouble with people who are religious. When I say you’re talking about, you have a personal relationship with Christ consciousness and they go, no, no, don’t give me that mastic bullshit. No, it’s Jesus. It’s like, well, you’re not talking about like a physical guy and it’d be 2000 years old.

You were talking about some extra consciousness connection that you have. So now we’re all in the same soup, but the historical Jesus thing, do you think there was a historical Jesus, do you think that stands up to screen?

[00:38:58] Steven Snider: Uh, I think that’s probably above my pay grade. I haven’t really contemplated that one enough to really weigh in on it.

But I mean, you know, just kind of getting back to like what I’m saying. I mean, it’s like, okay. The stuff with the spirit cooking thing is really weird and the art is very provocative, but I mean, as far as I’m aware, you know, we don’t have ham hard and damning evidence that there was anything more than performance arts at this.

Conversely, the FBI has a recording of Warren Jeffs raping a 12 year old girl on top of a temple altar while multiple one multiple of his wives watched this, bless the defense. Okay. For some reason though, despite the other allegations, the Jeff’s have ranches all over the Southwest that, you know, underage girls and underage boys for that matter were being ferried back and forth to these ranches so that the church hierarchy could abuse them.

It doesn’t seem like a lot of these alternative investigators care a lot about this kind of stuff. Even though the amount of evidence we have of this kind of sex trafficking going on for some of these weird sex in the Southwest is a lot more, uh, conclusive and compelling. I would argue than what we have for pizza gate.

And I mean, you could go into some of the other compounds like Colorado city or, um, Jesus, you know, the whole phenomenon with Los bullies that have happened or the Kingston family or any of these other groups. I mean, this is sort of like what I find baffling about this is where all the cube tards, where all the pizza gay people, when you can look at a fricking cult like this that’s, I mean, Colorado city is within, I believe 40 minute drive of the headquarters of the best friends, animal society, which used to be the process church of the family of judgments, another cult that also had an uncanny ability of losing children over the years.

Isn’t that kind of, all of that these two sex are within, you know, like fricking, uh, less than an hour’s drive of one another. I mean, you know, I get what you’re saying, but when I look at the amount

[00:40:52] Alex Tsakiris: of, I, I, I don’t think you get what I’m saying cause we should be agreeing. See, I, I think the, when you said above your pay grade, number one, it sure is fucking above your pay grade, buddy.

You, you are a better investigator. By a factor of 10 that I am, but you are sidestepping the issue. And the issue is, Christianity hold up to scrutiny or as you pull it apart, does it start looking more and more like a cult? And these offshoots that we have of it today are radically, radically over the top cult.

So, uh Jeff’s and, uh, all the rest of that stuff. I got it. But the reason the answer to your question, why that doesn’t get investigated is because at some deep level, you know, I grew up in the, in the church and the Greek Orthodox church. And let me tell you, you want to talk about mind control. Those guys have, have it figured out they all do, but it is a deep mindfuck, right?

You’re five years old, they’re chanting. There’s incense waving around. You go up there and you kiss that motherfucker’s hand and he puts the bread in your hand and it’s like, I’m feeding you, motherfucker. And Jesus is up there. And he’s bleeding with that little cross and you know, the fucking Jews, they killed this guy.

You get the whole thing set up. Now that you’re going to play out. So when somebody says, Hey, this Mormon guy or this branch Davidian guy, your first reactions will pull up a little bit because I am kind of in the same soup with him. I am a Christian. He’s a Christian. We both believe in Jesus. That’s the reason they don’t go there is because they’ve been mind controlled into this Christian culture.

[00:42:31] Steven Snider: Well again, I mean, it depends which Christians you talk to. I mean, I, a lot of them I’ve talked to kind of like to distance themselves from Mormonism and probably not without reason, but, um, yes, I would agree though, with what you’re saying, Christianity, like essentially all religions essentially had its origins as a cult.

I mean, you know, that’s basically kind of how I think the chain works, you know, uh, you’ve ceased being a cult and become a religion once you’ve, uh, I suppose gained a certain degree of official support. So,

[00:43:02] Alex Tsakiris: What about my thought? Cause I really want your opinion on that. I don’t just want to rent.

I know that for myself, it’s taken a lot of processing to get to the point. Like, I’m gonna say something I’m not a Christian. Do you know how hard that was for me to say as an adult, as a grown man, knowing virtually all the things I know now, I still couldn’t quite get the words out of my mouth for fear that I didn’t know what I was afraid of, but I couldn’t say it.

Hey, I’m big into near death experience science, because I think it shows the divinity. It shows that there is a connection. There’s a, we don’t need an intermediary. We don’t need someone to jump in with a Bible and tell you what your spiritual experience is, how to interpret it.

You can interpret it just fine. With your connection, but the point is we’ve been mind controlled anyone who’s going through that upbringing. And unless you’re really working at getting past that, of course it’s popping up. Of course, that’s why people who play those chords on you. Well, that’s what the Moonies thing that you guys went into.

Of course it works cause he latched onto Christianity.

[00:44:10] Steven Snider: And I mean, in essence, I mean, I kind of think that’s why ultimately a lot of this stuff is far more dangerous than, you know, the pizza gate kind of stuff, because I mean that, you know, I mean, anytime, I mean you show this kind of spirits, cooking stuff too.

I mean a fundamentalist Christian, they’re going to be triggered. I mean the whole thing, I mean is going to trigger a huge chunk of the population just because of its very nature. Whereas like you’re kind of saying, I mean, when you look at some of the abuse that goes on to Christian churches, it tends to be mineralized because this is seen as being a part of the background by so many people in this country, you know, we kind of take this type of stuff for granted, whereas I mean, spirit cooking, there’s a certain novelty to it.

But I mean, you know, from my perspective though, I do have to wonder given the fact that there is a lack of concrete evidence is, uh, in terms of like what you could find in some of these other incidents that we’ve discussed. It has to be in my mind a question of whether or not was this disinformation, especially coming on the heels of the whole thing with Epstein and Jimmy Savile, which is what makes it even more sketchy to me.

I mean, you know, Franklin, we got some good stuff out of Detroit. We got even more compelling stuff out of, but I mean, when you had Jimmy salvo breakout in UK and Epstein and the us, I mean, now it was actually a common thing for normal people. You know, the streets, the kind of people that I work with and a kitchen to acknowledge that the elites really do have these rings, that abused children.

I mean that in and of itself, I think was a major triumph. I mean, whereas previously, I mean, a good, you know, 10, 15 years ago, if you were to suggest to, you know, the average person in the street, like, well, you know, there probably are some wall street brokers out there who, you know, go around and have sex with children.

And sometimes they probably would’ve thought you were insane. But I mean, nowadays, I mean, in the post Epstein world, I mean, nobody can really deny that there’s some kind of reality to that, but I mean, when you go in with something like the, you know, I mean the whole thing with pizza gate where it’s like, you know, we have a dungeon underneath a pizza parlor in downtown DC, you know, this is kind of bringing his stuff into like almost, , what was that one movie hostile or something

like that?

[00:46:12] Alex Tsakiris: Johnson closed the whole McMartin thing for you. I mean, the McMartin preschool is a, is a replay of that as a replay of comment, ping pong in that way, in that they want, they just, the job of a Satanist is to lie. Right? So I had Mitch Horwitz on my show and I got him to admit that one he’s a Satanist and that to his, one of his inspirations main inspirations is Colonel Michael Aquino.

But you guys have done some great deep dives into acquaint. Oh great, great deep dives. Encourage people to check out the farm and the shows. I mean, they’re professional liars. I’m not saying Mitch Horowitz has professional liar, but when you go that route, you lie. That’s part of the it’s part of the game.

It’s part of the, if I can get away with it, I do a thought Wilf kind of thing. So McMartin was alive from the beginning. They just lied the RAs. I’m saying those there’s nothing here. There it’s a, it’s a Titanic panic. And again, John Brisson does God. I got most of my stuff from John on that. Yes, it was. Of course it was abuse.

The first thing that they did is they had a three-year-old kid come home and take, you know, this is what happened. I mean, I’m bleeding where I’m not supposed to be bleeding. They take him to the hospital, the doctor and the next doctor and the next doctor. And I’ll go, this kid’s been sexually abused, but they talked about tunnels.

They talked about Dungeons under the house and everyone did the big belly level. Oh my God. This satanic panic look at all these crazy Christians have flown off the handle. What happened when they actually went and searched for him? They found tunnels under that led over to the neighbor’s garage. They found Dungeons.

They found all that shit. Look at the do trove pictures that I just put up on the screen, Dungeons, tunnels, kill rooms, all that shit starts connecting the dots. So all’s I’m saying is when people just don’t understand exactly where you’re sitting, because again, we live in a world where exactly what you said is true, that the normies have been conditioned to listen to that woman on good morning America.

And the only thing they get out of this, the only thing they have, the only association they have with pizza gate is not this nuance Franklin scandal, you know, do TRO none of that. Newmont’s the only thing they get is those damn conspiracy theorists and that damn fake news. And it drives some people crazy to go in and take an AR 16 onto this poor innocent pizza guy.

That whole thing that, that narrative talk about up the fake that narrative is fake. I don’t know how you know what the real story is, but I’m, which is more fake. Good morning. America is a lot more fake than the spirit cooking narrative in mind.

[00:49:03] Steven Snider: Well, yeah, I mean, it’s good morning, America is certainly, I mean, to me it seemed like it was a big trap.

I mean, to try to discredit a lot of people who have been investigating a lot of this kind of stuff for years. I mean, I suppose in a sense, you know, you could maybe draw a parallel to something like Cathy O’Brien, which also started to become really big, I believe in the early to mid nineties, I mean, in the aftermath of Franklin or was it a lot earlier

than that?

[00:49:28] Alex Tsakiris: It’s a huge thing. It’s just so true. That that is like, you always go right to level three. I don’t know what to make of her. I mean, I just don’t know what to

make of,

[00:49:36] Steven Snider: or I mean, project Monarch, which is another thing. I mean, I talked to about this, uh, shortly before he passed away hang and there was absurd to know he’s the author of a terrible mistake, a secret order.

I mean, he probably knew more about this, you know, artichoke, MK ultra than any person who’s ever lived, never found any evidence. Monarch. In fact, I, he attract down the researcher who appeared to have been the first one to have released it into the public. And he acknowledged to Hank that he had fabricated it.

So

in the field,

[00:50:06] Alex Tsakiris: so talk to Whitley Strieber or ever heard Whitley’s story,

you know who he is, I’ve never spoken to what

river. So when I interviewed him, one of the things I didn’t know, and it’s out there, but he just doesn’t talk about it very much. MK ultra victim, when he was eight years old, San Antonio, Texas, the good air force guy come to the parents and say, you know what.

Your son is a gifted child and you guys did the whole gifted child thing on your thing. Have you done that yet? Oh,

[00:50:38] Steven Snider: I’m a gifted child, actually. You’re a gifted child, but no, I was actually selected to be on one of those secret schools. I’m cured. I’m serious.

[00:50:47] Alex Tsakiris: I believe it. I’ve talked to other people, you know, who else is a gifted child in that way is a Freeman fly.

You know, Freeman, I’m familiar with him. Uh, it’s gotta get, gotta get show. And he’s been around for a long time doing this stuff. Same thing, Freeman. I’m telling Freeman about this thing and the gifted child and you know, the gifted child, you know, Epstein was gifted child

[00:51:11] Steven Snider: wouldn’t surprise me.

[00:51:12] Alex Tsakiris: He was, he wasn’t at a young age, you know, thing.

So, uh, and, and Freeman flies a thing. When we say gifted child, you know, like, did you ever wind up going in any programs or any special classes?

[00:51:26] Steven Snider: I took the testing for it. They were actually going to send me to one of the special schools, but my parents decided against it because of the distance between where we were at and where the school was at.

I think it would have been like over an hour commute or something like that. So probably for the best yet kind of eternally grateful for that

[00:51:43] Alex Tsakiris: one. So, uh, Freeman fly for people who know him, he’s a gifted child. They put them in a special room, check this out again. There’s no proof, you know, and this doesn’t sound nefarious.

You know, Kaczynski, you know, we talked about this last time, Unabomber gifted child, right? In a bomber, Ted Kaczynski, gifted child, and then goes to Harvard and, you know, as part of the frame and fly back to it, he goes to a, a room like kindergarten and they just have a memorize. These index cards all day long, him and the other guys, he goes, I’m looking back on, I don’t know what they were doing, but they just memorizing index cards.

Whoa in a way, you know, to me, that’s spookier than the spookiest ass MK ultra stories you hear because from an educational standpoint, what possible is there?

[00:52:37] Steven Snider: It’s interesting, but it kind of seems like memory is a big part of this. I think,

[00:52:42] Alex Tsakiris: I think they have so many different programs. I’m going to stop digressing returned to Whitley Strieber.

So Whitley Strieber is probably the, one of the best known, uh, UFO abductees there, his story, he stayed with the story. He has physical evidence. He has, uh, an implant that he’s had and photographed it. They’ve done x-rays on it, but it love what a lot of people don’t realize his way back. He’s nine years old and the air force guys in San Antonio come and say, Hey, buddy.

Well, your kid ought to come in. They bring them in and it’s horror story, right? Kids locked in Fairdale, cages, kids being shown animals being killed right before the whole trauma thing to create this, uh, split personality of, you know, uh, disassociative identity thing, which comes up again. And again, and again, you hear it.

And then Cathy O’Brien spins that, but she spends it in such a fake fantasy fanciful way. I don’t know if she’s legit or not, but so much a part of her story just can’t be corroborated to me. That seems like a co-opting of the story. Whitley does not Whitley comes back and he shattered the only reason he gets out of it it’s because he gets really sick.

So they send him to a hospital and his mom comes to the hospital because we’re pulling you out of that damn thing. But apparently his parents tell him that after a couple of weeks, when the air force guys would show up at the house, he’s nine years old, he would be hiding up on the roof cause he didn’t want to go with him.

But somehow he is programmed not to tell his parents, they wouldn’t do it. So he was just doing it through this action. But the other thing that Whitley’s doing is with. When this whole thing happens years later, he’s like trying to put together the pieces, which again is so true. And does ring true with the Cathy O’Brien story is these people are kind of crushed.

So they don’t sound super credible in any way. Cause they’re just fractioned of, of what they were. But he goes to the kid across the street who was also in the program. This kid never leaves. The house dies at 50 in the house, just couldn’t leave. And he finds another one of his friends and he goes, yeah, it’s true.

They came to my house too. But my parents said no, when they heard about, uh, uh, Skinner, you know, the Skinner, BF Skinner kind of thing. So he was able to piece the pieces together. But here’s the other thing about his story. Then he went down to Mexico and he remembers them taking him down to Mexico and being with the, , being on these things where there were these kids.

Again, you talk about the, , child sex trafficking and the whole lot binders.

[00:55:09] Steven Snider: So that’s Mexico.

[00:55:11] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. That’s that’s so that’s, that’s Whitney, that’s Whitley. Strieber uh, kind of just that little case. A lot of people don’t know about. So I don’t know. I D I, I think where there’s smoke, there’s.

[00:55:24] Steven Snider: Yeah. And that’s, I’m not trying to dispute that there isn’t a reality, the allegations, but kind of like what I’m getting at with like the whole thing with Monarch.

I mean, I definitely think that there was a basis in reality for the Monarch allegations, but the actual allegations with project Monarch itself, I do think it was a disinformation campaign to try to fit people into false leads. It’s kind of like the same thing with Kathy O’Brien. I don’t know if she was a willful disinformation agent.

Maybe she was just manipulated to say some of the stuff, but I do think it was attempt to try to put a lot of false trails out there. And I think that this is true when you get into almost all of the major kind of black ops programs. I mean, you know, quote unquote Tesla technology, sex trafficking brings the occult.

, I just think it stands to reason that you’re going to put out as much Jennifer, just information surrounding these topics, as you possibly could to try to further obstruct the truth and the public at large.

[00:56:16] Alex Tsakiris: 1000% agree with that. I’m going to try and bring us back to, uh, the Q tarts and the Q Anon thing.

Cause it fascinates me. And one of the things I was floating out to you, I’m selling to you, seeing if I can get you to buy off on it is that there’s a direct parallel between the pizza gate thing and the, and then they storm the Capitol thing. And it’s just a rerun. It’s the same method. It’s take something real, which in pizza gate was, there were all these people that were really, really concerned about spirit cooking and the Satanist connection to the white house.

And they buried that story by a crazy nut, shoots up a pizza parlor. I think the same thing happened with, January 6th, let me tee up a couple of things and then I’ll get your opinion on it.

So here’s a story that breaks in revolve or meet Ray Epps, the federal protected provocateur who appears to have led the very first one, six attack on the U S Capitol. And I’ll play a little video for people. This is from, I just found their website and I thought they did a decent job of it here.

[00:57:30] Clip: Take a listen to that video back tomorrow. I don’t even like to say, cause I’ll be a resident we need, we need you to go off saying we need to go in the Capitol.

[00:58:35] Alex Tsakiris: I could stop it there. You know, my favorites, this is the Ray of hope. It really is. Steven is when the guy he gives this way. He is so, so obviously just the provocateur, a plant, a fed, but the guy here, he has a speaking to thing. And then the guy he goes fed, fed, fed like that. He exposes him instantly for what he is.

Did you see that in the video where the guy, the guy in the crowd, like you’re fucking fake buddy. You’re not real. None of, none of us really talk about that. And the other thing that supports my point is why is everybody there? Everybody’s there because they’re not real comfortable with a voter turnout of 106% in Wisconsin.

And they’re not real comfortable with, uh, you know, being 400,000 votes ahead in Michigan. And before you can even count all those votes through a machine, the thing swings the other way, people were mad because by any international standard, this election looked fake. I don’t care. I didn’t vote for Trump.

I didn’t vote for Biden. I think the whole thing is a joke. I think Trump is a brand. I don’t think he’s a political figure. Politics do matter, but I’m not coming at it from that. I’m just coming at it from a kind of science perspective where I sit and go the numbers. If this was an election in Iran, we’d just be going fake.

It’s fake. You don’t have a 95% turnout. You don’t have a big swing like that. But the point I’m making is that that’s what they were protesting. That’s what they were protesting. So the whole narrative turns into, and then they stormed the capital, these crazy conspiracy theorists. This is a repeat of pizza gate to me.

[01:00:31] Steven Snider: I mean, first off, it’s just the

thing about the election with the 2021 that was so striking to me is just how open it was that there was fraud in it. I mean, I think that there was probably fraud in every U S election. I mean, you know, at least for the last a hundred, 200 years or whatever, it’s not like all the way back to the origins, but I mean, yeah, the fact that, I mean, they really didn’t even make much of an effort to try to cover up the fraud this time around was just so staggering about it.

I mean, what do you make of

[01:00:59] Alex Tsakiris: that?

[01:00:59] Steven Snider: I mean, I think you almost would have had something like this either way, regardless of who prevailed, because I mean, I think that, you know, if Biden won, I mean, it’s, it ended up being the case. The Trump sides would not see him as a legitimate president. And then conversely, if Trump had pulled it out to buy it and people would not have seen it as legitimate president.

So I think that, yeah, I mean kind of from the beginning, there was always this sort of effort, you know, an arguably, I mean, it could go back to when Trump assumed office in 2016 with the whole Russia gate narrative. I mean, it kind of seems like, hell, I mean, we could maybe even go back to the birth certificate, but I mean, certainly I think with, uh, you know, Trump’s presidency, there was this whole push to try to make it seem like the president himself is not legitimate.

Uh, therefore, I mean, everything kind of up coming from the government, this is not legitimate. So, you know, it’s an interesting kind of state of affairs and this has only been kind of ratcheted up with this just bizarre street theater surrounding the 20, 20 election and its aftermath.

[01:01:54] Alex Tsakiris: What do you, what do you make of.

They’re burying the story because no one talks about what you do again, what you said you and I can talk about. And we’re both nodding our head. Most people don’t get that. They, they, they do not associate. And then they storm the Capitol with election fraud. There is no longer that connection. It’s just not there.

Well,

[01:02:18] Steven Snider: I mean, I think to some extent though, I mean, the public has maybe cause, I mean, again, you know, we obviously had the questionable elections with, uh, w I mean, obviously the 2000 elections, the 2004 election, obviously. Uh, I mean, I kind of think to some extent, I mean, even though it’s been sort of covered up, I mean, there has been a certain resignation from the public that, I mean, there is this kind of fraud.

Um, gosh, what was that survey that they did? I mean, about eight years ago where it was revealed essentially that the American public no longer had any bearing on foreign policy or really any kind of policy anymore. But I mean, yeah, I mean, there has been that whole sort of disconnect where, I mean, it’s just, the elections really are just kind of a side show.

So I mean, I think to some extent people take that for granted, but I mean, yeah, it has kind of become this. I kind of see what you’re saying. I mean, it’s almost like there was no reason, you know, in this sort of narrative that’s being put out now, uh, by the mainstream media for them to try to storm the Capitol without sort of understanding that.

I mean, people, you know, a lot of the people that went there for the rallies, I mean, were there for legitimate reasons in the sense that they had real concerns about the election fraud or other factors involved in it. And. You know, and just in general, I mean, that’s the big thing I think about the January 6th incident.

That’s so unsettling in a lot of levels. It’s just the whole process of dehumanization that’s been, you know, uh, embarked upon for the people who participated in it. I mean, obviously there were some people there who were real scumbags up, Sean Moon. Uh, one of the, uh, heads of the offshoot of the unification church kind of comes to mind, Alex Jones, Michael Flynn, I mean a lot of these same cast of characters.

And those are the same people that will probably never do a day in jail over any of this or face any kind of serious consequences. And to some extent, I mean, I think even the media has tried to rationalize their behavior, but you’re going to see a lot of average everyday people. I mean, some of them have already been horrendously tortured, you know, it’s probably going to continue and more to the point, I mean, it’s also kind of creating this, you know, mindset that, uh, anybody, I mean, who legitimately questions, the outcome of the election is this sort of nut job, even though as you’re kind of saying, I mean, there is ample evidence that this election was tampered with as many of them leading up to it were tampered with.

So, I mean, yeah, it is kind of interesting to see how, you know, we just sort of, kind of embark upon this continuous push to try to like, have to pick legitimate grievances as being like, uh, you’re just coming from this place from sanity, if you will.

[01:04:49] Alex Tsakiris: You know, look with that. Let’s return to Q Anon a little bit, and the research that you’ve done, because I want you to tell people I’ve learned so much from your show, I’ve learned so much from your research and you kind of turned me on to a bunch of stuff about Q and R that I found , very interesting in terms of it’s impossible to trace it back.

 

[01:05:11] Steven Snider: Well, in terms of like what the people involved their beliefs, , you kind of do get back to a lot of this stuff with like Michael Chino with them in general, Paul valve. And I mean, it kind of goes into this whole concept of mind wars and that type of stuff. , but I mean specifically, I mean, one of the things that I’ve really been looking at a lot, uh, you know, was the ties that a lot of this seems to have to the association of former intelligence officers, uh, which is again, a thing where you see a lot of the people in the queue thing that they had membership in, or they had to trust.

I mean, obviously there’s Robert David steel, the recently deceased property, David steel, you had people like Eric Prince, Michael Flynn, we’re trusting this, but I mean, it also ties into a lot of the people with the aviary. (——) () , I believe how put off as a member of, uh, uh, John Alexander is a member of Michael Aquino, not an aviary bird, but, uh, certainly a guy who traveled in the same circles was in the AFIO.

And, uh, you know, you got some other interesting people in there too. Uh, I believe actually Mary Pharaoh of all people was a member of the association of former intelligence officers and, uh, Peter .And there’s another thing. Yeah, there’s another interesting thing about the association too. And that’s the fact that a lot of people involved in it were never spies.

They’re basically just con men and Grifters. Uh, one of them was a guy called James Angleton Jr. Who claimed that he was, I believe the grandson of the famous spy master that, uh, the Matt Damon character and the good shepherd was based upon. And two had a lot of insight information from his grandfather on the, uh, real history of the government’s involvement with extra terrestrials.

Uh, needless to say, it turned out that this was pretty much all a fabrication. Uh, I believe Angleton saw James hazers angles and family even came out and said that this James junior guy had no family connection whatsoever. And he’s never been able to prove any kind of connection as well. And yet he actually got supported by people from the aviary, uh, how put off, went down and met with the whole Miami chapter that he was involved with.

So, and that doesn’t even seem like it was an isolated incident. There was another Florida chapter. That’s a co guy who ran. It was a guy named Henry Fisher who eventually took over the American security council and seems to have been masquerading as an older KGB spy, also named Henry Fisher from the seventies.

So it’s kind of this murky background where you have a lot of these people like Michael Aquino, who, you know, she kind of alluded to, has been, yeah. Linked to a lot of strange things like Proceda potentially mind control stuff. You’ve got people like John Alexander who did a lot of work for years, non-lethal weapons and whatnot.

And they’re kind of intersecting with a lot of these Grifters and these con men and this sort of Indic Matic group, uh, LARPers and that type of thing. And that’s sort of where the lines were. A lot of this stuff get really blurred. I mean, how much of this is such a joke? I mean, how much of this is some kind of elaborate mind control effort?

And I mean, is there really a line anymore? I mean, it’s, it’s almost kind of the scary thing, really.

[01:08:06] Alex Tsakiris: You know what I mean? So just let me throw out a couple, I got a ton of stuff that I’d like to throw on the table there. Michael acquaintance, I think is super interesting because when I did the interview with a Metro, which was a regular on the history channel is the go-to guy on alternative spirituality, but is a Satanist.

And if his inspiration is Michael Aquino, then it’s worth looking at who Michael is. Michael McQueen was discharged by the army because they found credible the charges against him of child abuse. And when they investigate him at Presidio, they had like 60 kids come forward. These are kids between ages of two and six, and they were able to say, yeah, inside his house, that the walls are all black and red and there’s an alter of bones and specific stuff.

The police could assert. They go into a queen house. The walls are all black and all red, and he is involved in satanic stuff. He has a really weird family again, what are we to make of that again? I’m not Christian, so I’m not even sure what Satanism is. I just know there’s some energy that you can tap into out there that I don’t know this, but it seems to me that it’s highly suggested that there’s some energy you can tap into that takes people in some pretty evil places.

And it looks like acquaintance was definitely involved in that. There’s a report in the San Jose mercury news, about a kid who sees a out in the mall and runs over to her dad. She’s six years old and she’s paying her pants. Cause she goes, there’s that man. So this idea and Mitch Horowitz, my interview with them tried to defend a quaint, tried to say, Hey, there’s never been any charges.

There’s again, sounds a lot to me like James Alefantis and way like, Hey Aquinnah was never convicted in court, right? It was never fuck man, the evidence. And then acquaintance everywhere. He goes, there’s charges of him sexually in a satanic way, sexually abusing these kids. And even in places where we didn’t know about it, but he gets published.

His picture gets published in the paper and suddenly in Oregon, some kids come forward and they look into it. Oh yeah, he was there too. So there’s so many interesting parts of that. So. Michael acquaint. Oh, Colonel Michael acquaintance to me seems really, really dirty. He’s got a lot of explaining to do that.

He’s never done the thing that’s really hard to, I think for all of us to process is he was Colonel Michael acquaint. Now he was in the military. He was rubbing shoulders with a bunch of other people who no doubt knew what was going on in no doubt, worth participating in, in some level. , how put off is a super interesting guy in this cause he keeps popping up again and again, tell us what you know about how put off and then we’ll kind of swap some stories unless you had anything else on acquainted.

Because again, folks, go check out the farm, deep dive, but D is there anything I said about a quinone not fit with what. No,

[01:11:16] Steven Snider: no, that definitely jives with a lot of what I’ve found about a Aquino. I mean, it’s certainly an interesting figure and it does kind of beg the question by so many people from the aviary.

I became so enamored with the Keno in the latter years, but, uh, with how put off, I mean, there’s obviously a lot of stuff about how that’s really interesting, but, uh, I think one of the things that really doesn’t get talked about a lot was the fact that both he and Russell targ had a background in, uh, this laser physicists before they got into the whole thing with Sri, which, you know, it might seem really strange to people that you could go from working on lasers to getting into remote viewing, but it actually makes a lot more sense because lasers are a big component of how, in theory, a non-lethal weapons, I mean specifically involving microwaves would be used to target individuals.

And, uh, that’s kind of a thing that’s really interesting when you look at a lot of the stuff with Sri. I mean, that’s how so many of the people tied to it also ended up sort of in, , you know, this Leon lethal weapons research or, you know, kind of came into the same circles with that. And, um, you know, I mean, I kind of think a lot of that probably goes back to the notions that the Russians possibly even the Nazis were sort of working with, uh, ESP that, you know, it was a, a kind of electromagnetic radiation or something to that effect.

And then turn, you could also develop weapons that could, uh, inhibit these mental facilities and so faculties and so forth. So it kind of begs the question, you know, I mean, how much of the, uh, Sri stuff, I mean, from the beginning have really grown out of this, uh, weapons research and then, , you know, there’s another interesting component about this as well.

That kind of goes into what you were, uh, Getting at, with the keynote, I think may be, and that’s over there as well. And that’s sort of the role that cults have in all of this. Um, again, you know, another thing that’s not really known about the Sri thing is, I mean, so much of this really came out of the church of Scientology, , put off, had been working with the church of Scientology.

A lot of the early funding from it came from the church of Scientology. You have a lot of other guys, Cleve Backster for instances. Uh, another interesting guy, he had known hovered since I believe 1950. Uh, he seems to have been a participant in project Bluebird around that same time. And then later he would hook up with, put off and I mean, to help kind of provide some of the inspiration for some of this work that they were doing.

So, you know, there is this sort of odd components of this, where it is this sort of odd cult mill you, that this, you know, essentially military program later came out of. And, you know, that’s, I don’t think really an isolated incident. I mean, you also have a guy like Michael Aquino who had set up his own Colts, uh, while he was in the military, but the temple set and, uh, I think that’s a component that, you know, we really need to look at more are these sort of ties to these fringe Colts and, uh, you know, some of this other sort of weird stuff that’s been going on because it is a very relevant connection and one that is just not understood.

[01:14:02] Alex Tsakiris: , yeah, there’s so much to, to talk about just to give people a little bit of a background. So we’re now talking about Stargate, we’re talking about the remote viewing program, which is one of the few programs that has kind of been. You can’t say out it, cause it looks like a very controlled release of that information that recently came out and Russell targeted a movie and the movie role

[01:14:26] Steven Snider: openly in the seventies.

I mean, they didn’t acknowledge the CIA involvement, but I mean, yeah, it was definitely being acknowledged what they were doing, thought

[01:14:33] Alex Tsakiris: Ted Koppel, Nightline whole thing on it back in the nineties, like you’re saying. And uh, yeah. And, and they, it, I got to believe, I mean, my reading of it is that it was leaked at some point that that really wasn’t intended to come out at that point.

And then once it comes out, then you got to deal with it, you know, what you’re going to do with it. But so just so people know, Stargate is remote viewing, psychic, spying. How can we look at those Russian subs from sitting in a room in Palo Alto? Well, you can do it. You can go into this systematic kind of trance if you will, and then you can get there.

And now I’ve interviewed a ton of people on that thing, including, , the guy who just wrote the biography on Ingo Swann, who was, you know, the person who taught, who operationalized the remote viewing program. He was a very gifted, psychic, and they told them what they were trying to do and how they’re playing around with it.

And he said, Hey, I think I can show you how to do that. Also interviewed a psychic spy, number one, Joe McMonagle who has an interesting background because Joe McMonagle has a near-death experience. He is a spy, like a legit spy. Uh, do you know his story?

[01:15:54] Steven Snider: A little bit about it? So he’s yeah, it was like what the, it was 73 or something that he had the near death experience.

And that’s kind of like what had gotten him interested in the sort of Woostoff,

[01:16:03] Alex Tsakiris: but yeah, and, and the, the Woohoo stuff is, um, he’s a spy he’s on the east Berlin, west Berlin border, and he’s in a restaurant and he, he tells a story and it’s just like a spy store. He goes like, this is where all the spies hung out.

You know? Cause this restaurant was on the border and he starts feeling the effects of being poisoned while he’s at dinner. And he’s like, man, I’m being killed. And he stumbles to the door and some of his army buddies grab him and throw him in a Jeep and are racing him to the hospital. He leaves his body.

He’s now outside of his body, he sees the Jeep, the Jeep drives up. They find an ambulance, they put them in the ambulance. He is still observing all this stuff from the outside. This is near-death experience. He goes, he has a rather incredible near-death experience, a spiritual near-death experience, connection to God near death experience, all that stuff, the punchline to the story or the point that might be of interest to you, because you did say.

You did, what was the term you used stuff? Um, anyways, he shows up, uh, happens to show up at Sri Stanford research Institute. Cause they’re the ones not doing the Stargate program. They’re doing the spying on the Russians with psychically and Joe McMonagle shows up and he looks across at camera was hell, put off a wrestle tar, but unseals his secret personnel file.

And they pull out of it. Raymond Moody’s book about near-death experience, which means to me, to us who really know what’s going on is they had already made the connection that the extended consciousness realm that has something to do with near-death experience also has something to do with this ability to remote view stuff at a distance, and also has something to do since you brought it up, you know, the Scientology thing, people understand it from the way it’s kind of Tom cruise kind of popularized, but that L Ron Hubbard motherfucker, I mean, that’s some interesting stuff in the desert with Jack Parsons in communication with Allister, Croley doing the, the, the Babylon thing to bring forth the anti-Christ again, I interviewed the guy from.

Ohio state university. He wrote the book on Scientology. He goes, yeah, that happened. They were in the desert. They were bringing forth that their goal was to bring forth the antichrist that’s who they were. And you got to believe that with all these connections, like you’re saying with the queen, oh, the United States, military intelligence were not, was not reluctant to go there, go there in the sense of, well, let’s see, let’s do it.

And, and in the end with the justification of, if we’re not going to go there, our enemy’s going to go there and they’re going to get the leg up on us. So I’ll stop there. Anything to. To, to add to that.

[01:19:12] Steven Snider: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, you definitely see a lot of those interesting developments that were kind of playing out.

I mean, in that period with the late forties, early fifties, I mean, how Ron hovered, I mean, famously he was a Navy man, possibly an O and I for a time, uh, one of the guys that he got, I mean, he was a science fiction writer of course, famously before he became a Messiah. Uh, one of the guys that he got to know why he was in California, was another Navy man who went by the name of property Heinlein.

Uh, Ireland was a pretty good science fiction writer in his own right too. And, uh, wrote a book called stranger in a strange land, uh, which was arguably one of the major inspirations for the sixties counterculture. Uh, there’s another Navy guy called, uh, gene Roddenberry who, uh, came up with a little franchise called star Trek that also, uh, shaped a lot of popular site guest.

But I mean, you can kind of look at some darker stuff too. Um, the finder’s called for instance, was founded by an air force veteran. Uh, the unification church appears to have emerged in the mid fifties, after a sun. My moon had spent a lot of time with a us military intelligence. You got L Ron Hubbard, as a said, sending up Scientology after he had done some time with the O.

And I, uh, you know, more recently you could look at something like the order of the nine angles. Um, the guy who set it up does appear to have been involved in not the British component of operation Claudio during the late sixties and early seventies. So. Yeah. I mean, you could certainly look at a lot of these strange Colts and movements that have grown up really since the 1950s, late 1940s.

And seem to note that there is a strange component to the us military and all of this. Uh, so yeah, I mean it does that or play into like what you’re getting at here. Uh, why is it that we need to sort of set up all of these Colts, uh, that have ties to the military and why are they involved in all of this really weird stuff usually, uh, with trying to, uh, contact as carnet intelligences and that type of thing.

It’s a very interesting

[01:21:06] Alex Tsakiris: see, but that’s one way of looking at it. And the other way of looking at it is to kind of completely turn it around. And that’s that

It’s the extended consciousness realm. One way I kind of think of it is the game, the big game and the only game and kind of the no game.

So the, the normies are the no game. They’re just not even in the game. And then the game is like, Deep state para political. And the big game is like ITI man is extended consciousness. And even though you’re not a big ETF guy, we’ll get into that in a minute. Hey it’s I was outside. It’s the near-death experience I was outside of my body.

I was saying we have no way that is so pat it’s outside of time space it’s outside of all that, that’s the big game. The connection between that game and the pair of political game would certainly put the big game and the extended consciousness game on a whole different level. And then I would say, because you get into this, like you just didn’t interview.

We’ll never get to it in this show, but I’d love to talk to gospel of Thomas thing. And that’s the only game. So the only game is you are a spiritual being. You are somehow connected to some divinity, some hierarchal consciousness, because that’s what the data seems to come back and says that consciousness, isn’t just a blob.

There is a moral imperative. It does pull you to do good. If you listen, it can also pull you to do bad if you want to go that way. But there is a moral imperative. There is right and wrong. There is good. That is ultimately the only game, but the big game is pretty interesting. The purple little game and all the rest of that.

So with that, the way that I look at what you were just talking about is our military intelligence cannot resist the urge to tap into the extended contract. Realm because that’s the big game. They don’t want to be stuck in the little game, so they want to know what’s going on there and how they can of course how they can weaponize it.

But that’s just an excuse. They just want to play a bigger game. What do you think about that?

[01:23:14] Steven Snider: Well, yeah, and I mean, I don’t think it’s a coincidence, you know, when you sort of look at, um, you know, kind of the development within some of the ideology that was behind Sri, I mean, a lot of, I mean, at least from what, uh, you know, this excellent essay that was written by David, Don, Kevin, uh, uh, Daniel Pataka, uh, seems to indicate is that, I mean, the whole thing is it sort of goes into that whole concept of the newness fear, you know, this sort of like earth consciousness or global consciousness.

And I mean, this is something that the Russians were also obsessed with. I mean, that kind of grew out of their own, you know, kind of tradition of cosmetics and that type of thing. So, you know, this is something kind of going back to the very early experiments. The Soviets were doing an ESP in like the twenties and thirties.

I mean, they were all creating kind of like hashing out this concept of the newness fear at the same time. The day shard day was essentially developing this concept in the west as well. So, I mean, they’re kind of going concurrently with one another. And I think that that ultimately really was at the heart of a lot of this really arcane research that the defense establishment with both countries were ultimately doing in the cold war era.

Uh, the Soviets, you know, might’ve potentially gotten there first and it could be that there was an element from the Nazis and all of this. I mean, there have been persistent rumors that the, you know, the research that the, what was it, the deaths and vendor B were doing. I mean, it was a big influence on some of this kind of insanity.

We don’t really know, but I mean, it definitely seems like that there was this sort of notion that, uh, there is this extended consciousness realm that. I mean effectively, you know, has an influence on all aspects of our lives and that’s um, yeah, I mean, it had to be understood, I think, to fully grasp the implications of it.

I mean, how it could be weaponized, how we could defend ourselves from it. And, you know, ultimately I guess maybe in some quarters it was seen as the next stage of evolution. I mean, certainly, you know, when you get into, uh, some of the spiritual offshoots, I think of this research, I mean the kind of things that people like Barbara Marx Hubbard were trying to do, I mean, there was that sort of component that we had to forcibly bring out the next stage of evolution and, um, in our own country, I mean, when you look at what was going on at Sri and all of the stuff that came together there in the early seventies, I mean, you had the Genesis of the aviary, the movement that’s really dominated euphology for the last 50 years, you have all this stuff with the remote viewing things, you had a lot of the Wu interpretations, quantum physics that the fundamental physics group was doing in the same area at the same time.

And they all knew the Sri guys. And finally. The development of the internets, uh, which can kind of be seen as sort of a materialistic, a form of a day, short days, newness sphere, in a sense. So, I mean, that’s all going on right there. And I mean, you have people like shock filet who were involved in almost all of it.

I mean, I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

[01:26:06] Alex Tsakiris: Well, it, but it, it, it, it’s tricky and I’m, I’m very, I want to pull it apart. I’ll start with the, with the UFO thing, because there’s a different, there’s a different potential narrative there. Let me share some things with you. I don’t know how about order. We’ll get them in.

So here is UFO researcher, grant. Cameron, who do you know grant Cameron?

[01:26:28] Steven Snider: Yeah. I’m not super familiar, but I’ve read a little bit of his

[01:26:31] Alex Tsakiris: work. So we’re, we’re, we’ve had a lot of interviews, exchanges and stuff like that. And I was kind of with him more before he kind of jumped the shark with the consciousness stuff and just sees everything is consciousness.

But the reason I think grant is important here is Grant’s a Canadian researcher. Okay. He has some legitimate documents that were released through Canadian foil. And we believe that there’s reason to believe. And it makes total sense that these were only released one accidentally and two, because they were in Canada and they just weren’t hip to what’s going on.

But the documents primarily centered around a guy named Wilbert Smith who was running, running the strange desk in Canada. If you ever Wilbert

[01:27:14] Steven Snider: Smith. Oh yeah. He was involved with project magnet rights.

[01:27:17] Alex Tsakiris: He goes to him, he goes the prime minister of Canada and says, Hey, I’ve been telling you about all these weird sightings.

We’ve been know, pilots are coming back with, we got to figure out what’s going on. And he goes, oh yeah, buddy, go down and see the yanks down there and see what they got. So he goes down, he meets with Anbar Bush. He meets with all the aviary people, as it turns out, which Avior of course is going to be co-opted of course, it’s going to be made to look like a fake operation because it’s real.

That’s how it is. If it’s real, that it’s going to be co-opted and faked and misinformation to death. But the original memo is instructive because the original memo that he writes, Wilbert Smith writes to the prime minister when he gets back, he goes, yep. UFO’s are real. It’s the highest priority, super secret thing that the U S is looking into higher than the hydrogen bomb.

And by the way, this is the one thing that grant deserves a ton of credit for picking up on is there is a mental phenomenon to this that they’re exploring. The reason I think that’s significant is I think a lot of people overlook the fact that MK ultra and in particular star gate, one of the goals of it was, Hey, ITI seems to be talking to us, telepathically.

All the contact we have is they’re not, you know, is telepathic. We need to start understanding this extended realm because that’s, what’s, that’s, what’s up. That’s what’s going on. It points to the reality of that. The other thing that points to the reality that is of course, the testimony that we have of thousands and thousands of people who’ve come forward and said that they’ve had direct contact sightings, and you have people who have multiple witnesses, all that.

And it just, I want to stop there because I got a feeling that you’re kind of not down with the basic fundamental reality that people are collectively. Not only seeing you a foes, but having contact, having multiple people witnessing the same contact, having, uh, Travis Walton P in the logging operation in Arizona in all five of his buddies go and jump in the truck.

Cause they see him zoomed up in the craft and they go get the fuck outta here. We’re all going to be killed. They just killed Travis and they go back. And what rings true about their testimony is they go back and they’re going to get arrested because the sheriff goes, uh huh. So tell us again how you killed Travis.

They go, no, man, we didn’t kill him. He’s up in this space, lie detector test. They all pass it. Five days later, Travis shows up no clothes on, walks up to a payphone and calls and says, I don’t know what happened, but boom, come get me. I mean, this is just one of a gazillion different accounts. And I guess sometimes when I listen to your show, I hear you guys kind of just focusing on the misinformation part and kind of missing the big inch.

A lot of it. Yeah. We, we are being visited. We are not alone. We’ve never been alone to steal the line from the ancient aliens show, which I think gets maligned way too much. Sure. It’s not perfect, but we are not alone. We’ve never been alone and that’s a better way to begin to look at the data than to look at.

Just from a, to build it up from a pair of political standpoint, the better way, in my opinion, just look at it as a top-down something is happening in that extent of realm and we don’t know what it is.

[01:30:56] Steven Snider: no, I would absolutely agree with that. And I mean, that’s something that I’ve really started to focus on.

I think, especially in the last year or two, I’m probably having enough conversations with Chris knows about Astro theology has probably contributed to that as well. Um, but yeah, I mean, I’m just kind of fascinated with this whole notion in this, you know, kind of, uh, esoteric tradition of communication from the stars.

I really going back to the earliest, uh, practices and antiquity really, uh, you know, obviously it kind of goes into the whole thing with scrying and I mean just how much of a. You know what I mean? So many should have these, uh, I mean, almost cultic phase that we’ve sort of talked about. I mean, Mormonism sort of grew out of this.

I mean, the angelic communications with John Dee and the enoki and magic, which has formed so much of a tradition of a Western magic grew out of a lot of this kind of stuff. But I mean, yeah, you know, there is this sort of ancient notion that, uh, humanity itself, our spirits, our consciousness, whatever you want to call it actually does come from the stars that it goes to this sort of process to incarnate here on the earth and that we can summon things from other planets, uh, to us, uh, I know had recently read some of the works by Francis gates, which I kind of blend into some of the things that Peter Levina I’ve heard speak about before, but, um, it’s kind of the notion that the whole purpose of these megalithic structures really was to draw down, you know, the gods, whatever you want to call it into these, uh, these structures so that they could communicate to the priesthood or whatever, which again, I mean, seems like it’s absolutely incredible.

And yet, uh, when you look at so much of our modern world and how, you know, the extent to which we try to almost recreate a lot of these megalithic structures and a lot of our major capital cities and so forth. I mean, you’re almost left with the inescapable conclusion that there is this sort of ideology and belief system within the ruling elite, that tittle continues on.

And yeah. I mean, I do think that some component to some extent, uh, that is at the heart of a lot of what is going on. It is, you know, this tradition that’s been with humanity since practically time and moral that, uh, I mean, it seems like almost every significant ruling class has ultimately latched onto at some point or other.

So yeah. I mean, that is kind of something you have to look at and all of this.

[01:33:15] Alex Tsakiris: Ah, see I’m with you to a point. I’m just wondering if we’re kind of coats speaking at there because when we started talking about ruling class and stuff like that, to me, there’s a different message. That’s the fundamental question on ITI is goody T versus batty T evil versus divine ITI versus Evilee T demons in the, uh, in, uh, interdimensional thing or more like us, you know, you talked to Whitley Strieber and, uh, you know, I think he’s a pretty good go-to, he’s not 100%, but it’s like, his thing is like, oh, they’re just one step beyond us.

Good, bad, multiple agenda, multiple species, multiple different planets, all that stuff. And that too, to kind of ascribe the super powers to them is to kind of miss the boat here’s grant Cameron in the part that I guess we don’t, I don’t necessarily agree with grant so much. Let me play it. UFO researcher grant.

[01:34:15] Clip: We go back to the fact that there is just experience. That’s all there is. If you take a look at, we’ve talked about the evil alien. Okay. So we say there’s evil aliens. That’s the general impression. And if you go and you do the free survey, you see that 84% of all experiences, you say, if they were given the chance to have it stopped, they would say no, only 9% say it’s evil and 9% is not zero, but it’s getting pretty close.

There are no victims. There are just volunteers. It’s all experience. . I appreciate the distinctions you’re making. I just, I mean, you’re, you’re saying at some point we have to move to something else. So what are we moving towards? Here’s the kicker and the important part for, for people who don’t believe like so many of the academics are humanist, materialist, atheist paradigm, and they don’t have to deal with any of this shit, but for people like you and I, who acknowledged and extended consciousness realm, when somebody tells me, yeah.

Um, I’m abusing these kids. And let me tell you this spirit, being this entity in the extended consciousness realm, and he is really into it too. And he is bringing all this power into the group and he’s doing these physical things. And if I do this ritual in a certain way, it brings even more power into me.

And that’s my download. He says, that’s my experience.

[01:35:30] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. Where I was getting at with that ramp, there is that, uh, there’s a whole, the UFO community is really divided on this issue. I think if you look into it, it’s the good ITI versus bad ITI. ITI is some kind of spiritual savior. It is the prototypical God light near-death experience that is going to save us, or it is, you know what, they’re peddling at Peter and Tom DeLonge are peddling, which is, it’s a threat.

I interviewed Richard Dolan, who I have a lot of respect for it. Let me play a little clip from Richard Dolan

[01:36:06] Clip: We met with the guy at the DOD, but he’s a whistleblower, all the information he revealed. Well, none of it’s classified or top secret. The kid who took the innocently, took a selfie on being inside the submarine he’s in prison.

And this is the biggest thing ever, even though it happened 15 years ago, I wouldn’t say that Elizondo necessarily classifies as a whistleblower. I don’t know. I mean, he, um, all of these people are self-serving. So the folks at PTSA, it’s not like, you know, they’re all angels and they have no other ulterior motives what they do.

All, all these guys who were in the military, that was their pledge. Are we at a different point where we’ve totally given up on the idea that we need to hold these people accountable? Is that just kind of. Oh man. Good question. Where we are in a post constitutional phase. I mean, look, we’re in a, an upside down world where, what I call this thing now, legal illegality.

That’s really what it is. It’s like this legal. ,

[01:37:05] Alex Tsakiris: and so you get the point that I was trying to make there. The TTS to the stars academy, Tom DeLonge gets turned into all these TV shows, you know, all these things. It’s just bullshit it to me. It’s so clearly a political PSYOP, right? It’s so clearly all the same players.

Who’s on the stage with Tom DeLonge, our friend Hal put off. And you mentioned, um, I mean, they’re all, it’s all intelligence again and it’s, you know, the Verner Von Braun. It’s the next threat. It’s the next boogeyman is ITI. I don’t agree with grant Cameron, because I think in the ITI accounts are also, you know, Richard Dolan sitting there, he’s talking about his wife got raped by 80, right?

So if you want to go there, if you want to kind of throw that out, the Biddle middle, if I just jumped the shark on that, if I crossed the crazy line, whatever, but man, you go start investing those, investigating those accounts. And uh, no, it’s hard to sidestep all that data too. So goody tea versus batty tea.

Where do you come down on that really come down on ITI. Are you even down with all the accounts of VT or do you. Do you think of they’re all demonic and they’re all inter-dimensional and they’re all Jack filet. And, uh, you know, she’s tickled talking about chocolate. I interviewed Jack filet. Yeah. Jacques filet is into the consciousness thing and the L elves and all that kind of stuff.

But he also carries around a piece of a fucking, uh, spacecraft in his alien spacecraft in his pocket that he’s analyzed in under a microscope and said, there’s no way we could ever manufacture this. And the animals Osaka, uh, you know, was out in the desert and she has spacecraft too. And a lot of people have alien spacecraft that is in this year, this world kind of thing.

So, and, and the guy that Diana wants to put SACA, you know, American cosmic, the guy who is helping her do it says, yeah, I’ve made, I’ve made millions of dollars by reverse engineering, some of this stuff and filing patents. And he does fly round in a Learjet and he does stay at the Ritz Carlton. And he is credible in terms of where she’s talking about.

So I don’t know, but that’s how I read all that data.

[01:39:25] Steven Snider: Um, well, I mean, again, I would say that I am, I mean, I don’t discount like anything other than, uh, that there is no, you know, that there’s nothing at all to the T thing other than just a bunch of swamp gas or, you know, coops or something like that. I mean, that seems clearly absurd, absurd position to take.

, I am pretty wary of the extra terrestrial hypothesis. , I do think that there could be a physical component to it though. I mean, I do think that it is possible to summon things into the material realm. I mean, this is sort of, kind of based on my own research, , into the history of ceremonial magic and that kind of thing, which I think is probably where I tend to look at this through the prism of simply because it seems like, , in these magical traditions, that’s where you see the oldest references to, you know, the notion of the stars, the cosmos, I mean, possessing, you know, these non-human intelligence, isn’t it.

So I think that’s probably the most logical place to try to start to kind of get a grasp of what we’re dealing with. ,

[01:40:23] Alex Tsakiris: I hate when people go there, why not just go with contemporary accounts? Are you familiar with the Chris Bledsoe and Ryan Bledsoe? So, you know, Chris Bledsoe, he’s got a five-part interview with Richard Dolan.

They landed in his fucking backyard. And grant Cameron saw it, saw the evidence of it and they, he hadn’t experienced in his backyard. He had CIA people come down all the time and, and visit him, you know, his son, Ryan led. So who now does a podcast? I’m going to have him on the show. You know, he talks about as a 13 year old.

Yeah. There was a space in the backyard and, uh, the grass never grew there again. And we went and measured it and, and there’s all these people who have done, uh, you know, the burn marks and all the trait, what do they call them? Uh, trace they’ve studied all that stuff. So I’m just always a little bit leery when people jump to the, to the magic pond part, it’s like,

extended realm first. But if we’re going to play the consensus reality game, if we’re going to play you and I are talking, there are documents, there is evidence. This is evidence, you know, and if you want to say the demon, the demons came down and made all the burn marks in a certain way. You can. But then it’s, that’s not a very interesting discussion to have because they can do anything.

[01:41:46] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, that is kind of when you get into a supernatural realm, I suppose. , but yeah, I mean, again, I’m not necessarily saying that. I mean, there’s not a physical component to all of this. I mean, I would just say that I’m, I just find with the whole push of like, how. The much effort has been put in to try to frame this, uh, especially in most mainstream accounts for decades now, as you know, being the result of an extra terrestrial species, visiting us in a nuts and bolts, a space ship from the planet state of reticulum.

I’m kind of a contrarion. If somebody is telling me that this is my one option, along with it also being swamp gas, then I tend to try to look for a third or fourth option to try to explain it because it just, I, that weary of official narratives on this kind of stuff. I mean, again, I’m not trying to say that.

I mean, we should totally discount anything having to do with like the physical components. Those certainly. And I mean, that is one of the biggest mysteries to a lot of this. I mean, you know, how is it that this stuff does seem to leave so much evidence in the physical world, even though, I mean, it does seem to operate in the sense that’s much closer to what we would think of as magic.

Uh, I mean, I know that obviously leads into the whole thing with Arthur, C Clark and you know, any sufficiently advanced technology and so on and so forth. But again, you know, who knows, um, maybe there’s something to the, uh, you know, the accounts from the book of a knock that, I mean, a lot of this technology was disseminated to us from these kinds of entities and that was how we were able to create it.

I mean, it does seem like that there is a connection with high technology in some senses to these sort of contexts. I mean, this is something that Chris Knowles has done a great job of exploring with Roswell and a lot of this other kind of stuff. I mean, it is an obvious component to it and, you know, I don’t know.

That’s all I can really tell you. I don’t really know what the answers are to that. Yeah.

[01:43:33] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. None of us, certainly none of us know you’re doing fantastic work. I just can’t say that enough. And I think the light that you’re bringing to this from a kind of deep dive pair of political, bring the pair political to the middle, which you do, and which he said in the very opening introduction, which I read all the time in your work is that people want to paint.

You left people on a pint, right? What you’re doing is trying to hit the damn ball right down the middle of the fairway, uh, kind of thing. I’m not a golfer, but I like that analogy and it constantly questioning everything. So, uh, w when is, um, when are we going to see the, the book on Q Anon? Cause I think it’s gonna.

I’m

[01:44:17] Steven Snider: hoping soon. Uh, I mean, I’m trying to get into like the last little bit of revisions now, but I’m hoping probably in January or February, I really wanted to get it out for Christmas, but there’s just too much stuff I’ve still got to add to it. But, uh, and you know, kind of getting back to the question you had earlier about like the morality of all of this, I, you know, again, we’re dealing with the non-human intelligence, at least that’s my opinion.

So I don’t know necessarily, is it going to have a sense of morality the way that human beings have, or, you know, a sense of right and wrong or anything? I don’t know that you can even apply that. I don’t know that if we were necessarily even capable of understanding the motives for why some of the stuff was done, uh, I mean, I know, and again, it’s not necessarily the great comparison, but being just an aunt, you know, truly understand why we insufferably step on it.

Probably not. Uh, it just is. So

[01:45:10] Alex Tsakiris: I think that’s a super important point. You know, I just had that discussion the other day with a guy I interviewed, I really liked cause just purely coming at things kind of from a spiritual, actually from a law of attraction, kind of spiritual kind of thing. But what you say it is really undeniable.

It’s from a rational, logical standpoint, it’s clear that whatever you think of God is is if not disinterested, if that’s too strong of a word, is that your connection with the divine. Has nothing to do with the details, the minutia of your life. It couldn’t possibly, this is your journey, your trip, your experience.

And as we just look around, everyone’s doing it, doing it differently. And you know, I, so I agree with you 1000% that to try and apply our puny little idea of what morale morality is, is really tricky. But I got to throw the, but in there, like you look at near-death experience science, which the interesting thing about near death experience science is medically.

We understand that those people are dead. Don’t let anyone tell you they’re not really dead. They’re dead by every means we’ve ever measured death. And yet their consciousness continues to operate in some way. And what they uniformly come back and say is yes to the morality. Yes. To the, to the thing I think most of us just feel in our soul is that humanity is supposed to do good things.

You’re supposed to take care of other people. You’re supposed to love other people you’re supposed to connect that comes through when look at little kids know that, do that. So, yeah, I don’t know what ATS and E looks like, but my aunt is eighties and he looks a lot. You’re in my NDE. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[01:47:15] Steven Snider: Well, again, I don’t know if we can really, you know, again, I mean, it’s human morality. I mean the same thing as, I mean, another species or another kind of consciousness. I mean, again, I don’t, I don’t even know if we have any way to assess that, to be perfectly honest. I, uh, I mean, maybe it’s possible. I mean, if we’re correct and all this stuff with the newness fear and I mean, it all is some kind of collective consciousness that’s intertwined with one another and then perhaps ITI is simply operating on a higher sense of morality that we can’t, you know, necessarily comprehend.

I don’t know, but I mean, I do believe that, you know, there is sort of an innate morality within humans. , you know, I don’t know that that can necessarily be denied. , but yeah, you know, when you kind

[01:47:55] Alex Tsakiris: of put it in, that sounds like a lot of humanistic dribble. I mean, what the, what I’m doing is pointing to the data and the data is scientific data.

And so the first scientific data is that near death experiences, strongly suggest consciousness, survives, bodily death. So the whole thing we’re conditioned to in school is to, you know, you’re just the biological robot in a meaningless universe. There is no meaning to your life. There is no meaning to anything you have to get past that, or you’re not even in the game.

So we get past that. We get past scientism and then we start asking the question. Well, what is this extended Rome? The best data we have, again, is this near death experience. And you start looking at the accounts broadly like Dr. Jeff Long, and look@thenderf.org, where he’s compiled thousands of men. He’s analyze them statistically over and over again.

What they come through with a high degree of statistical significance is that this is what they’re telling us. They’re telling us it’s about love more than anything else they’re telling us. It’s about connection more than anything else. And you can tease that out with wealth. Did they see that in the movie?

Did they see that? And the data still comes through and says that that’s what it is. As a matter of fact, the data is kind of misreported because everyone imports the tunnel. Everyone reports all this other stuff, and it kind of comes through in this humanistic way, but that’s not really what the data is.

If you look at it and Jeff Long wrote a New York times best-selling book, and anybody can go read it, but I have to tell you the other thing that I got to call you out a little bit. I think you’re sidestepping the data on ITI because Jeff Long hooked up with Ray Hernandez and they did a similar study of ITI contact and to grant Cameron’s credit when he reports like he did that, you know, 80, 81% or 91% of people.

I don’t want the contact to, , stop a highly, uh, high, high percentage of them felt that it was a spiritual experience. And, but it isn’t uniform. Not everyone feels that way, but again, that’s data. I don’t know what you do with that data. I don’t, I’m not inclined to sidestep that data. I’ve interviewed Ray, I’ve read the book.

I don’t know how you do it better, but if somebody wants to go replicate it and come up with some other data, great, we’ll throw that on the pile. But in the meantime, you got to follow the data and the data on NDE says hierarchy of consciousness. And the data on ITI says probably more goodie tea than batty tea.

Like, like is that, should that be a surprise in our world? A lot more good people than bad people, but the psychopaths sure. Get their voice in, you know, pretty good.

[01:50:40] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, in that is the question. I mean, you know, I can only really kind of relate this to my own personal experiences. I had, , an OB probably around the time when I was three or four years old.

And it was frankly, it was an awful experience. It’s, uh, probably traumatized me for my entire life to be perfectly honest. But on the flip side of the coin, I probably wouldn’t be sitting here doing this interview with you, uh, if it wasn’t for that experience. So. You know, the optimist in me likes to think that I had to go through this horrendous experience because there was something in my future that I had to do that I needed this experience for.

And hopefully something benevolent was guiding me towards all of these ends so that I could do what I needed to do. Now that could just simply be sophistry on my part, because I need to try to rationalize why this awful thing happened to me. Uh, again, I don’t really know, but, , you know, certainly it does seem that there are negative experiences that go into all of this, you know, that definitely is something that can’t be denied.

And it’s something that I think a lot of new age types too, tend to overlook, but I mean, you know, in the grand scheme of things, maybe there is a purpose to the negative things that happen. Maybe it’s just like it is in the real world or, I should say manifest day to day life for us. Uh, those of us in our meats, it’s where, you know, most of the people you encounter in day-to-day life are pretty decent and may try to help you in.

There are some people who are just really assholes for whatever reason, but, uh, again, I don’t, you know, you would kind of hope that, uh, when you got to that level of conscious achievement or something like that, you would be above this sort of petty malice, but I don’t know,

[01:52:19] Alex Tsakiris: I don’t know either. Want to come back because this is, there’s a subtlety to this that we all have to play out.

I really, really agree with the point that you’re making before, because I think the church, he kind of, uh, it’s all good. Uh, Jesus loves me. Yes. I know because the Bible tells me, so is out the window. And the only possibility is that it is beyond our comprehension, and in invariably that’s what all the indie ears say.

They say, I knew it all. I had all the answers and then I try to pack it back into here. And I didn’t and lo and behold, that’s a lot of the ITI. Contactors say Ray Hernandez, who had a direct experience with ITI. That’s what he says right here. Nando’s is not a chump. I mean, he’s a lawyer. , he’s got degrees from Stanford and I don’t know where else, but, , knew everything when he was out to outside of space and time come back in this form.

And it’s like, duh, you know, back to me, it just kind of an ordinary person. Uh, we’ll wrap it up. I cannot recommend a more highly the farm. If you’re at all engaged by this kind of dialogue. Heck this guy has these. How often do you guys put out a show

[01:53:30] Steven Snider: or we do it once a week,

[01:53:31] Alex Tsakiris: man. They’re amazing. Uh, amazing.

He just did a thing on crypto in it like completely. Turned my world. I don’t want to say Crip upside down, cause I was never into crypto, but it was like, oh my God, truth teller, truth teller, truth teller, fantastic show peruse. You will not, you will not at all. Be disappointed. We’ll look for the book. What else should we tell people about Stephen?

[01:53:53] Steven Snider: Uh, well, I mean, I’ve also got my long time a website, uh, buys a view, which you can find, advise a few.blogspot.com. Uh, I haven’t been able to do as much with that as I would like to have in the last year or so, but hopefully we’ll be getting back to us some more regular updates soon. And uh, yeah, I might be having another podcast coming out here in the next couple of months as well.

We’ll just have to see how all that goes, but, uh, yeah, it’s going to be probably a busy 20, 22 for me. I would imagine.

[01:54:22] Alex Tsakiris: Fantastic. Well, I appreciate you coming on and engaging in this kind of grilling. I mean, it’s, I don’t know how else to get to the bottom of this stuff. I mean, you got to kind of hash out the stuff that you don’t exactly see eye to eye on.

Otherwise it’s just more of the kind of yeah.

[01:54:38] Steven Snider: Cheerleader. Oh yeah. I mean the world would be pretty dull if we all agreed on everything. So

[01:54:43] Alex Tsakiris: absolutely massive respect for what you do. Thanks so much for being on. Thank

[01:54:48] Steven Snider: you for having me, Alex.

[01:54:49] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks again to Steven Snyder for joining me to Dan Skepto the one question I’d have to tee up from this interview is the one I guess I started with is pizza gate. What do you think. Pure disinformation campaign or disinformation disinformation campaign. To distract us from what’s really going on.

As I said in the intro would love to hear. A deep dive engagement on that. If you got real stuff, bring it in. Connect with me. It’s fine to say you like the show or something like that, or you appreciate it. You’ve been listening for a long time. I love to hear that, but I don’t care. What I really want to know is I want to know something new. Tell me something new that I don’t know.

Join me on the skeptical forum. Join me over on the new telegram. I’ll see how that works. If I can really find a way to engage over there, but connect, connect with me and help us grow this community. I’ve got some good ones coming up.

Please stay with me for all of that until next time. Take care. And bye for now. 

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