Steven Snider, Creating the Super Soldier |569|

Steven Snider is an author, blogger and host of The Farm podcast.

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[00:00:00] Alex Tsakiris: On, this episode of Skeptiko… How to create a super soldier

[00:00:07] clip: So am I to understand that you men completed your training on your own? That’s the fact Jack that the fact Jack captain. Yes, sir. These are exactly the kind of go-getters I want working on my em, 50 project in Italy,

And why we need them in the first place.

[00:00:26] Steven Snider: We just weren’t getting, you know, the results from the troops that we wanted.

I mean, and that was a big concern. You had a lot of people deserting . And we were looking at these, you know, communist cadres who seemed almost fearless. And what were they doing that we. Were missing. And that was kind of what started all these investigations and the brainwashing.

[00:00:43] Alex Tsakiris: The first clip was a real oldie from bill Murray, way back stripes, movie, eighties, I think nineties, And the second was from today’s guest, returning guest, Stephen Snyder. This is a deep, deep dive. I almost thought about breaking this up and coming in and making about a hundred comments on it because.

We could talk for a long, long time and it intersects with so many other things. We’ve been talking about on this show. But I can’t really do that. But I love to do that with you afterwards. If you want to chat about any of this stuff, and there will be an invite to do that at the end.

In the meantime. I hope you enjoyed the show.

Alex Tsakiris: welcome to skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics.

I’m your host, Alex. Kars today. We welcome Steven Snyder, AKA recluse back to Steven. Always. Great to have you here. You know, it wasn’t too long ago. He was here 5 29 para political Q and on great conversation. , if you haven’t guys, haven’t heard that you gotta go back and listen to it because we really engaged on some topics that we didn’t necessarily agree on the interpretation of, but what is so awesome about this guy?

And what I so love about his work is he really brings it in terms of the data. And I was just kind of poking at him and teasing a little bit because he’s always like, Hey, what are you gonna ask me? Cause I gotta be prepared. I gotta know. And stuff like that over prepare, go to his web, go to his blog or listen to his, uh, podcast.

And you’ll see that he, he needs that deep knowledge. So one of the things we’re gonna do today is kind of pull ’em out of that and get him more into the interpretation of it. You know, it’s one thing to dig up those ancient artifacts. It’s another to interpret what they mean. So that’s gonna be one of my goals.

But before we get started, I wanted to read for people because you have been on the show a couple times, by the way. Welcome Steven. Thanks for being here. Thank you, Eric. So I, I wanted to read this because I did come across the farm podcast, mock two intro. And I don’t wanna assume that everybody knows exactly who you are.

And this is really well written, which is no surprise, but explore culture, para politics and high weirdness with recluse, the longtime curator , of the legendary bicep blog. And we’re gonna go there in a minute after cutting his teeth in the Syncro mystical move. So, so interesting right there, recluse developed a novel approach to para politics that emphasizes both hard research with reluctant acceptance of, for, and Satine currents.

So not afraid to look at the strange high weirdness and not afraid to kinda look at it. Maybe from a, , from the dark, , view that it is sometimes. So he’s the author of strange tales of the para political post-war Nazis, mercenaries, and other secret history, fantastic book, and a special relationship.

Trump Epstein and the secret history of the Anglo American establishment book one. And has a forthcoming book due in 2022. Have you published? I look for it, the Q nine book yet.

[00:04:19] Steven Snider: No, that’s uh, the one that I’m still working on, I’m not sure if I’m actually gonna complete that one by the 20, 22 deadline or not just, I keep finding more material for it.

So it’s definitely gonna have to be broken into two books at this point though. It’s over 200,000 words at this point. So it’s, uh, there you go. Unless I’m going for war peace or something like that, so,

[00:04:41] Alex Tsakiris: okay, great. So a, a book dealing with the discordian. , state sanction behavior modification programs and conspiracy theories.

The farm podcast produces high quality in depth, weekly shows in the long form. Let me show you some of those. I mean, here it is on apple preview. What’s up with the website? No, the apple. No. Yeah, here I am on web on apple, but I’m always looking for the farm website.

[00:05:10] Steven Snider: Oh, well, I had to take that down after I had decided to part ways with pod beam and it’s, uh, one of those things I’m still trying to get all the stuff consolidated on one platform. But yeah, it’s definitely something that’s kind of in the works. Uh, been trying my best to get as much of the stuff on Twitter as possible.

Since that seems like what everybody does nowadays. I

[00:05:30] Alex Tsakiris: don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cause I did go, I multiple times have gone looking for the website and can’t find it, but, uh, you will find recluse out there. You’ll find Steven Snyder, the farm podcast, mock too. You’ll you’ll, you’ll find him just,

[00:05:47] Steven Snider: uh, and also there’s the feed on, there’s also the feed on the visa blog too on the right hand side that you can always go to as well.

[00:05:54] Alex Tsakiris: So, and, and there’s the Patreon as well. And I’m a pat supporter. This is exactly the kind of stuff, the kind of person that patron is made for. Because he’s doing so much work, he’s doing so much work. That is never going to be, uh, rewarded financially or even fully recognized. You get the sense. I get the sense in listening to your stuff that so many people are riffing off of your stuff without ever acknowledging it, or it’s seeping into, you know, like just in, in passing, I’ll mention like, uh, Bitcoin, like I thought Bitcoin was fucking fake.

I mean, they can run Bitcoin, however the fuck they want. And whoever thinks, whoever thinks you’re gonna stash your, your money away from these guys. And they’re gonna somehow be, oh my God, I could never cry. And you totally expose that in the, the show that you did totally outside of your wheelhouse. But I mean, what you cast doubt upon in that show was this idea that this isn’t.

affected by the same mechanism that we see affecting everything else. And, uh, so to me, that’s an example of where. You shine in terms of the depth that you take and even stuff that isn’t necessarily in your swing zone. Like I say, you, you just always bring so much to the table. What, what do, do you remember that upset I’m talking

[00:07:25] Steven Snider: about?

Well, I mean, I’ve done a couple in Bitcoin, but I mean, yeah. I you know, I mean, I’ve always like trying to look for flaws. I mean, a lot of these different kinds of narratives and so forth, but I mean, yeah, that was, you know, another topic. I mean, I had to kind of pick up one to understand the broader mil U that it came out of like the Extropians and the cipher punks for a lot of other, you know, stuff I was working.

I mean, that’s kind of how I pick up in a lot of these subcultures, you know, because I mean, to kind of understand one topic, you have to teach yourself another one and that’s why my books end up becoming over a hundred thousand words. Typically .

[00:07:59] Alex Tsakiris: Here is the visa, , Blog spot and, , an exclusive dive into family, Aquino, fantastic stuff, really, really important stuff that connects to so many of the things that we’re gonna talk about that we talk about here, and that is an intersection between kind of your world and my world.

And then the other topic I wanna make sure we talk about is, , Peter Laveda, cuz he’s another guy that I think links up in a way, certainly in your world, you bring us a different understanding of him. And then he pops into my world in the UFO thing in a very prominent way that I think a lot of people aren’t aware of.

So we’ll talk about his conversation with Tom DeLong when they first met and uh, we’ll be sure to get to that. So don’t you be interesting. That’s what I have teed up for you. Uh, Do you wanna start? Is it okay to start with, uh,

[00:08:57] Steven Snider: yeah. Yeah. If you wanna start with the emphasis innovation. Yeah.

Well, I mean, essentially, it’s, uh, you know, the role broadly speaking that the Moonies have continued to play in, uh, Japanese para politics. I mean, really going back to the early sixties.

I mean, of course I brought in well, nobody can ever really fully replace ed. I mean, the closest successor we. It’s uh, my research partner, Keith Allen, Dennis, who was able to bring in and give us a lot of the backdrops about how the Moonies, uh, became just so deeply involved in Japanese politics, especially with the organized crime elements and some of the other gangster elements.

And then essentially, even there, we got into, uh, an individual we had found, uh, from Jimmy Fallon Kong show, uh, by some Kings I think podcast. And this guy was able to give us an insight into what, uh, the normal people in Japan were looking at this. And then Keith on top of that was able to locate some of the, uh, kind of smoking guns with the ties that the assassin had, not just, uh, to the Moonies properly, but Deshaun moon’s church.

And for me, that was, you know, what had really set off a lot of red flags. That’s really been kind of my principle interest in the Moonies in recent years because I mean, If you followed the developments with Sean Moon, it’s just insane. I mean, the guy has set up a compound in Waco, Texas, you know, I mean about five miles or something from Mike where David crash made his last stand he’s started alliances with biker gangs.

He was president of January 6th. I mean, he’s, uh, basically doing nuptials with machine guns, being used as props. And now there’s a lot of reports coming out that his mother has died, which means that succession within the unification shirts proper is up for grabs. And that seems to be one of the things with the assassin, uh, that might have played into this.

I mean, this guy was certainly aligned with Sean moon’s faction and Abe had been a backer for a while. Uh, going back to, I mean, I think his family with, uh, the old guard moody

[00:10:55] Alex Tsakiris: generation, so, okay. So, so let’s, let’s take this back a little bit because one of the things that, that you guys do, that’s like super interesting slash important on this.

And again, I don’t know how we do it, you know, wherever we grab, it’s gonna be hard to pull apart, but I love the historical perspective that you add to it. Jimmy fallen Kong does a nice GU job too. And I’ve talked to Jimmy a couple times and you know, he does like 10 part series on Japan and you start understanding.

Japan. And you understand Korea and you understand a little bit of the Korea mentality and the one downsmanship between Japan and Korea and China. And they’re always, you know, and then you start to understand this North Korea, South Korea thing a little bit differently, and you understand how the Moonies, a cult, uh, you know, and people remember way back in the day that Sonya moon would come over here and you have these mass weddings and, and it got to be a thing.

And a lot of Americans got pulled into that, but at that level, Help people re understand the relevance of the Moonies,

[00:12:11] Steven Snider: well, I mean, I think there’s a couple of different reasons for that, but I mean, obviously, I mean, the Moonies are a cult first and foremost.

So, I mean, that gives them a certain inroads, I think, to a lot of different cultures that you’re not necessarily going to get. Uh, if you’re just, you know, strictly a political organization and that’s, you know, a big part of this is, I mean, how do you brand these kinds of movements? I mean, that’s the way that you sort of create a certain coherence.

I think in the, uh, the ruling elite, basically. I mean, when you look. The powers and I mean, a lot of these major countries, you know, I mean, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, I mean, almost everybody belongs to a handful of these kind of different sex or something. I mean, you know, it’s kind of a joke in the United States.

We have a two party system, which I mean, in and of itself, it’s almost miraculous in comparison to what they have in Japan, where, you know, you basically have the, the liberal, democratic, Japanese party, you know, the control of like the Akua and happy science, maybe a couple of these other , you know, got a far out ideologies that have been, you know, running the show.

I mean, almost uncontested now for like 70, 80 years. And I mean, this is, you know, I mean, it’s really the case in a lot of countries are under the dominion of the United States. I mean, sadly, this is. A lot of effort is going into manipulating the superstitions. And I think belief systems specifically of a lot of our VA countries.

And I mean, I think that’s kind of ultimately really the key to a lot of control mechanisms for a lot of this stuff. I mean, how do you create a kind of unified spiritual ideology, if you will, you bind all these different sex together and so forth. I mean, that’s really, I think been at the core and a lot of this stuff I’ve been looking at really for the last year or so.

I mean, especially with Keo and a lot of this other stuff, I mean, I know you’ve been kind of alluding to this, but I think the cults are really crucial to understanding. I mean, a lot of these political systems

[00:14:05] Alex Tsakiris: operate. Right. So let me try and, uh, fill in a couple of blanks. What I hear you saying is politics.

Whether we like it or not is kind of part of how you get business done. So even if you’re a, a ruling class, elite and oligarch, whatever term you want to apply, you have a need for politics. It, it, it’s kind of the grease that that does move things. You can’t.

[00:14:34] Steven Snider: Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, this is, again, it depends obviously in the country that you’re in, I mean, the optics of that particular country, but yes, I mean, in the contemporary, you know, world in the post west AIAN era, there is this sort of notion that there’s some kind of social contract between the body politic and between the citizens and that we all have laws that we’re supposed to abide by.

I mean, obviously it doesn’t really work that way for practical purposes, but you want people to think that it

[00:15:00] Alex Tsakiris: does exactly. And, and then so perfect. So then taking that one step further, the, what you are helping us understand again here, and it’s a fantastic insight is what if we started thinking about cults as a way of delivering the vote?

Like I grew up in Chicago, Chicago is a extremely politically corrupt, uh, city always has been run by the mob run by these little thief thems. And the big term was deliver the vote. Can you deliver the vote? And what I hear you saying with the Moonies is, well, of course, they’re going to rise to power.

If they can deliver the vote, they’re willing to find political allies, people say, oh, okay. He can deliver the vote to a certain extent. And then what you’re taking that one step further and saying, you know, , the cult thing. Is kind of always gonna be a nice play politically, cuz those guys can deliver the vote.

Right. I got a cult. I can I stand up there. They do what I say. And we have to be careful of how we define cult, cuz I would definitely extend that to E every Christian religion.

[00:16:13] Steven Snider: I mean most multi, I mean most small knots mean most multinational corporations you could really look at is colds. I mean, nowadays, I mean, well

[00:16:20] Alex Tsakiris: to, to, and then that’s a continuum, but, uh, comment on comment on what I’m saying, because this is something that you guys, uh, tap into in a really good way.

Interesting way is that people might not see the connection between, uh, the cult, which may rise up for other reasons. And then it’s political force because it can deliver the vote.

[00:16:49] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, it can also deliver the influence, which is another big part of that. But I mean, this is really. The way, I mean, I think American politics, I mean, has always been organized to some extent and I mean, probably, I mean, going even further back.

Uh, but I mean, when you look at the early history of the country, I mean, with the first elections, I mean, with, uh, you know, under the articles, Confederation, all this other kind of stuff, I mean, the major powers that prevailed were the Federalists and the major, you know, factor for that is because they were the only organized political party at the time.

They were the only ones to had any real kind of momentum behind them. And their organizational method behind them was a group called the society of Cincinnati. It was basically a Shig order that had been created out of the military officers that had served in the continental army. This is basically how the American political system has started.

Okay. You have an elite secret society organized around military, uh, blinds. It creates effectively the nation’s first of talk to political party, which is used to, you know, Ram through, uh, Chase’s rebellion as a false flag, and then bring up, uh, the constitutional convention. And ultimately lead to George Washington, being enshrined as the nation’s first president.

And the only way that there can be any kind of opposition to this is by essentially creating a counter cult. And this is what, uh, you know, Jefferson and Madison and all these guys did first with the democratic societies, which became the democratic Republican parties. Again, it’s kind of an inner circle, a sort of political slash cult, uh, that has been enacted as a challenger to the society of Cincinnati.

And that’s more or less like where we’ve been operating from for the two party system for the beginning. So you have this sort of layer, I mean, of different structure, where you have an aristocracy, the money, people, all these people that are sort of organized around these really powerful political societies.

And there were offshoots of that. I mean, Taney hall was like another one with Aaron Burr that grew out of the society of Cincinnati for, you know, to give you an example. I mean, there are rivals, but these are used then in turn to organize like your smart political parties, uh, the ethnic groups and so forth, and them until coherent factions that you can use.

I mean, to get people out in the masses and to vote, and then finally you end up with something resembling. I guess an election where you have some illusion of choice or something to that effect, even though, I mean, it’s all being manipulated by a handful of different interests here, really. And again, I don’t think that things were really that much different in a lot of the other countries where we bought enshrined democracy in.

So to speak though, it seems like finally, we’re moving even beyond this kind of absurdity.

[00:19:30] Alex Tsakiris: Well, I, I don’t know. I’ve been doing a lot of deep diving into Roman history in order to get at this, uh, Christian cult and the origin of that. And where I come down on that is the cult MIRIs, you know, which parallels, and I don’t wanna get too sidetracked with people cause we’re already throwing too much information, but when you go and study it, it is exactly, exactly a repeat of what you’re talking about.

So high ranking military people get together and they have this natural bond and infinity. And the way that they’re gonna do is they’re gonna subvert. You know, assassination, intimidation, corruption, and that’s how they’re gonna decide who becomes Caesar. And if he doesn’t do what you say, then it’s in their meeting underground.

And then when Christianity is overlaid on top of this, which is a total fake thing, then we’re just gonna have the cult myth risk meetings right underneath the church at the very first church that Saint Constantine founded. So again, I don’t wanna throw out too many little threads there, but the parallels are unbelievable because this is fundamentally, uh, human nature, I think.

And let’s switch back and talk about that because this is something I haven’t heard you talk.

[00:20:53] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, I think it obviously plays in such just our, you know, innate human, uh, need to belong to something.

I mean, everybody wants to feel that they’re a part of something greater than themselves. And I mean, especially cults, I mean, they tend to target a specific segment of society. I mean, people that are riddled to drug addiction, I mean, they’ve often come from broken families, uh, marriages that are disintegrating.

I mean all this other kind of stuff. I mean, again, you know, this is in a lot of ways. I mean, it’s always been the major appeal for all kinds of self-help organizations. I mean, going all the way back, you know, I mean, but time out, do you

[00:21:27] Alex Tsakiris: think the Moonies, I don’t think the Moonies fit that.

[00:21:31] Steven Snider: Yeah. I mean, they definitely had self-help for the members.

I mean, in terms of like the family networks, I mean, again, not from the perspective that we’re looking at it here because they would separate them from their families. And I mean, this other kind of thing, but I mean, at least they did try to take care of some of the members after they, after they were a part of the cult.

[00:21:49] Alex Tsakiris: I mean, I guess what, I’m, what I’m pointing out. And I don’t think this is like a big point of, uh, a disagreement with us, but I, I, I do think sometimes when we talk about, you know,

[00:21:59] Steven Snider: like, uh, some cults are more destructive than others. I mean, no doubt. I mean,

[00:22:04] Alex Tsakiris: Well, not only that, but I’m saying, I think we all have much more susceptibility to be, uh, quantified than we’re willing to, to acknowledge.

And I think to say that it’s, you know, a Jim Jones kind of thing, go to the worst district and take the drug addicts and the disadvantaged people and round them up and give ’em a meal and stuff like that. And you can cultivate ’em. Yes, but you can Cy, you know, my neighbor who lives right down the street mm-hmm and they, they have, and it’s like, I think it’s a mistake to say that in the moons or you look at it’s.

Yeah,

[00:22:33] Steven Snider: well, yeah. And it’s also usually a lot of times upperclass people in there and I should also emphasize, you know, even if you’re coming from good background, you still have a need to belong to somewhere. And I mean, that’s not, you know, I mean, yes, that’s a very valid point, but I mean, I think a lot of times, especially when you are coming You know, I mean for more well to do family, there are lesser social bonds than you might have when you’re coming from maybe more of a, uh, working class family or something like that.

I mean, certainly as somebody who’s generally grown up and more of an upper middle class background, I was always envious of a lot of the families that I came into contact with. I mean, who were usually, I mean, more from a working kind of background, uh, there’s just a greater sense of community in some of those.

I mean, that’s also a factor that plays into a lot of that. And I think that’s really what it boils down to your susceptibility is, you know, what kind of a community are you a part of you, somebody who’s lost? Are you somebody who’s trying to find something to belong to? Because if you already feel like you’re a part of something, I mean, it’s gonna be difficult for a cult to replace that.

I mean, you know, that’s why family ties are usually the major thing that break people out to cults more often than not, you know, I mean, those are the, really the bonds that are hard to sever.

[00:23:43] Alex Tsakiris: So we have this susceptibility to cults. That’s kind of built into our, our social nature of these chimps that we are, that run around these little packs.

But then there’s another aspect of it that you guys are really touching on all the time. It’s, you know, Michael Aquino hanging out of the side of that helicopter with a microphone and he’s not doing it, but he’s telling his interpreter to pretend that you are a, a dead vie Kong, wandering soul, and tell these Viet Kong that they are going to be, their souls will die on this field and will wander forever and tapping into, and I hate to use this word superstitions, but you used it so I’ll use it, but there is a spiritual aspect to cults that we tie into.

And I think we have to be careful to. acknowledge or at least wrestle with the fact that there is a reality maybe to this connection to an extended consciousness, but it is also susceptible to manipulation.

[00:24:47] Steven Snider: , well, I mean, it really goes back, uh, to Edward Landsdale, who was the architect really of a lot of this sort of modern, uh, take on psychological warfare. And he was the guy, I think, during the assassination hearings in the seventies, that they kind of humorously dug his approach elimination by illumination or something like that.

, he was in OUS for his campaign in the Philippines where he had, uh, you know, bite marks put on, uh, the necks of insurgents and then drained of blood. So it looked like they were murdered by vampires and all that kind of charming stuff, but Landsdale. Was quite a visionary. He was the first guy in the Philippines to fight a successful counterinsurgency.

In fact, he’s one of the only American generals to actually wait a successful counterinsurgency for being perfectly honest. But he also. Essentially saw the future of warfare in the cold war. Everybody at that point in time was fixated on how it was gonna be between rushing the United States involving a bunch of conventional forces like we’d experienced with world war II.

Landsdale took the to opposite approach. He thought that this was all going to be carried out by special operations forces and specifically psychological warfare and civil affairs officers, which he saw to be crucial to all of this. I mean, Landsdale was an early guy who realized that modern warfare had become too destructive to allow the superpowers to really continue to engage in it.

So you needed to replace it with something, uh, that used less conventional forces, smaller armies. In a way that you can continue the great power struggle with, you know, not wiping humanity off the face of the earth. And this was more or less the blueprint that he tried to bring to the floor with the rise of the special operations command and all this other stuff, which was one of Dale’s kind of visions.

, he didn’t get that through, but a lot of his accolades except Wilson, I mean, general, uh, sink log and the keynote did, and the keynote was taken this a step further to this full blown, like mind wars concept that he started to toy with in the 1980s. And in this case, I mean, he wants to totally replace physical war with psychological warfare.

Totally. So, you know, I mean, there’s just no way that this can be done. I think really, without a fundamental salt on an absolutely subconscious level. Not just, uh, targeted countries or individuals. I mean, he’s very open about how, you know, we need an open declaration of mind war. When we go in Satanist,

[00:27:11] Alex Tsakiris: Satanist, what does that mean to him?

What does it mean to you?

[00:27:14] Steven Snider: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, and I think the most MCIL thing I think Ken really did was transfer a lot of this stuff.

You know, frankly, to the new age movements. I mean, just my opinion, but I think you see a lot of this, I mean, reinterpreted through this whole kind of Christ consciousness or cosmic consciousness that people like Barbara Marks Hubbard or day char day, and what have we’ve spent so much time, uh, promoting, but I mean, in a keynote’s basic system, I mean, he sees this as nothing more, but a basic, you know, Christian Juda, O’ Harris, he essentially, where you’re essentially replacing the Christ consciousness with this just sort of universal consciousness or something.

And the individual soul was once again, being reabsorbed or subsumed into this. But, I mean, it’s the same thing, essentially. It’s just the absolute destruction. The second death that’s been referred to throughout. I mean, a lot of these different traditions, what Aquino actually is promoting is something quite different.

I mean, it’s actually a way to preserve, uh, the individual mystique after death. And he advocates this through essentially going into the fifth invention. I mean, this is sort of like where you go through the abyss, you’re confronted with the Primor or nothing that where there’s absolutely nothing there, but just yourself.

And at that point, You have to create your own universe to continue your existence, a subjective universe, which dubs to be the universe of imagination. I mean, this is sort of like why I think you see a keynote had such as ongoing obsession with Hollywood and all these different films and so forth of, I mean, because he saw that as a fundamental way of, uh, life after death, fundamentally.

I mean, it’s creating a story for yourself to continue on with your consciousness as a kind of counter to this absolute nothingness. You’re creating again, a kind of subjective universe to counter it with that you can exist in. I mean, ultimately, you know, you keep asking me all these questions about how we view these different things, and that’s a valid point with these different data points, but I mean, ultimately.

We’re not looking at this the same way. We’re different people. We both created our universe based on our own life experiences and so forth, Alex. So it notably we’re gonna have different ways of looking at all that. I mean, it’s, it’s an interesting point, even if he’s an appalling human being, I hate to admit it, but

[00:29:29] Alex Tsakiris: , the problem, I guess I have with it is so many of , , these Satanists, the do with all will croon kind of people. And I’ve interacted with them for so long for so many years. Like a lot of these people are brilliant. You know, Aquino’s not a dumb guy here.

[00:29:45] Steven Snider: Like he’s a very smart person.

He is. But again, I mean, also when you get into the whole thing with like Satanism, I mean, you know, Aquino was trying to move beyond that. I mean, the more I look at it, I think increasingly Satanism is just essentially a Christian Harrison, specifically a Catholic one. I mean, if you go back and look at the historic presidents for this, I mean, the only people that really practice this crap are Catholic priests.

You know, I mean, it’s basically the ultimate rejection of your faith, which is really the only real value. Something like the black mass has at a lot of levels.

[00:30:19] Alex Tsakiris: Right, but I think it misses the point. I think it’s the head fake in a lot of cases. And I think the, the push against Christianity is the fault of the Christians and the Christians don’t own that enough.

The fact that they’ve left this absurd narrative on the table, as the alternative has opened the door for this other absurdity, which is Satanism to come in and then they can spin it a bunch of different ways.

[00:30:48] Steven Snider: I don’t disagree with, but I mean, who benefits more from the notion of Satan than the Catholic church?

I mean, that’s look at the rise of exorcism of the church right now. I mean, that’s a huge industry for them, man. I mean, like, I mean, it wasn’t for Satan who would really wanna be a Catholic and more Alex.

[00:31:05] Alex Tsakiris: You right. Fundamentally I think the, the, the Catholic church, which is now the Christian Church, but originally the Roman Catholic church is a SIOP is a, you know, if I can control you with mysticism and ideas about spirituality, it’s just more effective way of controlling you than sticks and swords, you know, it just makes it, you’ll just do what I say.

It plays back into the cult thing. Exactly what we’re talking about with the Moonies. I mean, they can deliver the vote, right? Like there’s a lot of different ways to deliver the vote in Chicago. You had to give a guy a fucking job and say, Hey, you know, now you got a job, but make sure you come and vote.

That’s a lot more expensive than just having a meeting and. You know, having a love Fest and having, you know, ed, our buddy ed Kaufman, get together and see some nice 19 year old girl, when he’s 19 come up and talk and say, wow, you look like an interesting guy. Why don’t you come to this weekend retreat?

And we’ll have a love bomb session. And the next thing you know, he is like, I’ll follow you anywhere and do what you want. More effective, more effective way of doing it. The thing about the Satanism thing and the way that it plays into the, to the Michael Aquino thing is that there’s two ways of looking at the guy’s, , a pedophile that rapes these kids, right?

So one is he has this, just this appetite, this sexual appetite for little children, which maybe is true and probably is true, but the other way of looking at it, and you hear this over and over again, is that there’s these people who believe that they are tapping into some energy when they’re doing that.

And there’s some reality to that energy. So to me, that is outside of this other kind of phony thing we’re talking about with Catholic church versus Satanism and all the rest of that. It’s at another way. This is like the, the book I wrote, why evil matters. It’s like why evil matters is. Is the moral imperative matters.

It’s like, if you believe that there is a moral imperative, if you believe there is such a thing as good and bad, if you believe that there is a voice inside your head and that basically, you know, what’s right and wrong and that you have some sort of a free will, then you’re having a different discussion then I think, and here is the key point.

I think the Satanists want us to believe for the most part. And this is the fundamental thing. It’s also the transhumanism thing that’s going on today. They want us to believe something different. They want us to believe that there really is no right and wrong. That evil is a social construct. Good is a social construct.

It’s something socially that we, but there is fundamentally no truth to it. And that is very empowering. If somebody wants to do whatever the fuck they want, and it’s less empowering if you are holding yourself to some kind of moral thing. So this is so I, I don’t, I know we don’t have to agree on this, but I think it’s, to me, it’s underpinning all the stuff that we’re talking about and we go around in circles.

If we don’t get down to the, is there a moral imperative question? I asked you this last time and you said, yes, you think there is

[00:34:13] Steven Snider: ultimately. Yeah. I mean, I ultimately think we’re all responsible for our actions, but I mean, again, when you deal with this sort of insanity, where. You know, you don’t, you’re trying to exist in the fifth dimension where, I mean, there’s no concept of a left right hand path where you’re beyond good and evil.

I mean, it’s easy to lose yourself in these kinds of halls of mirrors, which I think is what has happened to a lot of these guys. I mean, it is a You know, again, from Aquino’s perspective, I mean, it’s kinda like what you’re saying with this Christian cult, that’s brought so much misery into the world. I mean, with this, you know, perverted belief system, and I mean, from his perspective, it’s leaving people to spiritual damnation and so forth, but I mean, the alternative that you’re putting forward where, you know, the only thing is basically to totally destroy social contract.

And that’s the whole thing with what Aquino’s talking about that I think should disturb people because he is basically talking about creating a society in which there is no left or right hand path to any of this. There’s just , a populace that agrees universally on ill defined concept of justice, , whatever that might be at the particular time.

And there’s nothing to back that up. You know, we just believe it because the thought forms and the types of God’s handed to down to us, and we don’t question this, you know, and it kind of plays in, I just think to more broadly speaking the fact that a lot of people see this. As a ritual drama. I mean, I think for me, that’s the biggest part of trying to understand this that’s made the most sense to it.

And I also think where you get into a lot of these issues with things like Satanism versus like the actual ritual abuse, where a lot of times there’s differences between this. Because I mean, there is this satanic element that you see with the Leo Tractel stuff at the eighties, Satan payer, uh, scare, which is basically alarm cooked up by people like Aquino, but they’re doing this partly to inflict a broader trauma in society while also covering up the things that they themselves are engaged in.

And it’s, macve on one hand because it discredits almost anybody talking about this. On the other hand, it’s kind of disguising what they’re actually doing. I mean, you know, that’s really evident when I look at like what’s happening in Provo right now with a lot of the reports coming out of there. I mean, Aquino himself got dragged there as a kid, which I don’t think is a coincidence.

[00:36:24] Alex Tsakiris: Like you’re just touching on so many things that we could go into. Explain again in simple terms, what you just said, because it’s a pattern that we’re gonna see over and over again. So there’s something called satanic panic. And it sucks because there’s people who went to jail accused of satanic ritual abuse that were not at all connected to it.

And that panic was brought about because. There really was Tana ritual abuse going on and MC Martin preschool. They really were abusing kids and bringing Satanistic ritual into it. And that becomes case one west Memphis, three Damien Eckles really did rape and kill those three kids. So says his co-conspirators who have confessed to it multiple times, including in the backseat of the Sheriff’s car after he was convicted.

And he asked the sheriff is, can any of this be used against me? And the sheriff goes, no, you’re already convicted. He goes, okay. I’ll tell you exactly what happened. And they can find evidence that corroborates it. But Johnny Depp is still friends with

[00:37:35] Steven Snider: Les and all these yeah. Dian

[00:37:37] Alex Tsakiris: Les and all the rest of these people.

But the point to get back on the trail here is. To get to the level that you’re at. And like when you talk with Brisson, John Brisson on your show about this is, is I think so hard for people to slip past. It’s like there was real satanic ritual abuse. It was real satanic panic that that was created by these fundamentalist, Christians who can’t really see the world in any kind of reality based thing.

Cuz they’re so caught up in all this rest of it. And then there’s this other reality, which is. Michael Aquino. Let’s now use this as an operation to kind of fuel both sides of it. And it has all these advantages. It has the advantage of the misinformation advantage in that. No, one’s gonna be able to unravel this fucking thing by the time we get done with it.

And it also has the advantage of kind of conditioning people to this topic and normalizing it whether we want to or not, because all the shock value only lasts so long. And the, as the tide goes down, we’re like, yeah, that stuff happens. No, no reason to get too worked up about it. Those are some of the things I hear you saying.

Uh, uh, expound on it or tell me if we’re not in sync on

[00:38:59] Steven Snider: that. No, that’s absolutely. I mean, I think the case of what you’re seeing happening, I mean, especially, you know, again, kind of going back to Provo. I mean, that’s an area I’ve looked at for a long time. Tell

[00:39:09] Alex Tsakiris: people, tell people, when you say Provo, you’re talking about sexual abuse at the highest level within the Mormon church, which has been reported over and over and over again.

And you feel to a certain extent that it’s been ignored because it kind of plays some right wing notes that are, is less energizing to a certain group of people who are more energized when they hear about Hillary Clinton and spirit cooking. And there’s probably some reality to what you’re saying, but that is what you’re talking

[00:39:36] Steven Snider: about.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like in the case of Provo, I mean there, okay. So the, one of the earliest reports of satanic ritual abuse was actually a book called Jay’s journal, which was written by the chick who wrote, uh, go ask Alice. And this predated Michelle remembers and all this other stuff. And I mean, this was all said in Provo, going into the allegations that the Mormon elders were actually who were molesting these kids there, and these allegations have continued for 40 or something years.

I mean, you had the cult of Zion that was convicted of abusing a bunch of kids. The Hamlin Lee family were the ones who were first targeted with the investigation, going back into the nineties, which led to a statewide investigation and SRA accounts. But again, you know, that’s where you see how so much of this stuff is so well placed.

Because again, if there was one, I shouldn’t say just one, but I mean, this is. A specifically an area of the country. If there was actually going to be a lot of legitimate, high end rich ritual abuse, it would be there. And that’s because more than anything else, because the fundamentalist Mormon sex, if you know anything about these groups, I mean, they’re just a wash with incest, with pedophilia.

It’s just a handful of families that run these things like mafia dons more or less. And it has created just a ton of broken families. I mean, women that are basically used to shadow slaves. I mean, all kinds of other, just disgusting stuff like this. I mean, child trafficking is epidemic in this whole area.

I mean, you have a massive supply of, you know, wayward kids there. You have a really creepy, I mean, hierarchy controlling the whole state. I mean the church security thing. And then into this whole mil, you, I mean, you have Mormonism itself, which, I mean, I think. Howard bloom was probably hitting the nail closest to the head when he described it as a kind of American form of narcism.

I mean, a lot of people think Mormonism is a really silly faith until you start looking. I mean, some of its origins and SCR, and I mean, all the other stuff that Joseph Smith was doing with the energy and all this other kind of stuff. And that’s why. It’s gonna attract a very peculiar kind of audience. I mean, this is the same kind of angel magic that Damien Les is talking about.

Like in his high ritual book, that kind of stuff. I mean, this is the stuff.

[00:41:44] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. Ho hold on, hold on though. Cuz I I’m with you on the rant up to a point, but the other thing, and, and this I really got from our, our buddy ed Kaufman again on the Moonies and that when you get to the second and the third generation, you’re talking about a whole different story.

And in Mormons, we’re talking about many generations beyond that, but back to ed, one of the things I always found most compelling is this interview he did with these second generation Moonies. And as soon as I saw that my world changed, I was like, holy shit. Imagine what it would be like born a Moony.

Your parents are Moonies, it’s it doesn’t carry some of the same baggage that you have and anyone who. Knows Mormon people will tell you some of those Mormon people are the best examples of the kind of person that I would like to be, you know, in terms of, uh, giving, living on a moral compass, being, having a certain strength of, , not faith, but just understanding of how the world is really about loving everyone and telling the truth and being family oriented.

My always word for those people is that they will be , confronted with the time bomb that you are, unfortunately, lighting the fuse on. And that someday they’ll come across this information and the world will be somewhat shattered because they’ll realize that, you know, the basis on which they built a beautiful life has a very, very rotten foundation.

[00:43:12] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, I think that’s kind of when you see the positive aspect of a cult, I mean, first off, I mean, you know, Mormonism grew out of the American frontier, you needed a strong sense of community to even venture out there.

And I mean, obviously in the case of Mormonism, there is a strong social support there. I mean, you, what, uh, tie 10% of your income to the church. You have food banks, you have all this other kind of stuff. I mean, a lot of times they have employment for members. They have, uh, you know, I mean all kinds of social programs to help ’em the state and that kind of thing.

And they’re, you know, again, a lot of people think that I despise Mormonism, but I actually do find it to be quite a fascinating faith. I mean, I also find their entire take really in American mythology to be interesting. I mean, it’s wrong, certainly, but I mean, it’s, it’s one of the more creative approaches.

I mean, I think anyone’s ever taken to these kind of topics. I mean, there’s certainly a lot to recommended in terms of bringing a unified ideology to the country, especially in a region of the country where. There was a broader lack of identity and to also kind of harmonize some of these different aspects of American culture Which again, I think is one of the reasons why Mormonism is still with us and why it may well become one of the predominant American face of the 21st century.

It’s, it’s a lot more sophisticated than people give a credit for being, because I think on the one hand it does have this sort of quintessential American kit to it that makes it so enduring on the one hand. But I mean also, I mean, almost childlike on the other, which I think is part of its appeal to it, but then there’s this high ritualistic side to it as well.

That, I mean, if you are attracted to this darker aspect of it, it’s there, there’s also this magical aspect of it as well. So there’s a lot with the faith that you can do with it. And I mean, that’s not even kind of thing and implications in ancient astronaut theology or some of the ways that they could take it from that direction.

[00:45:03] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, I’m less cynical than you are on that. Because to me, that’s the ultimate cynicism to think that Mormonism, that fakery could really ascend to the prominence that you’re gut of the, but

[00:45:18] Steven Snider: no, I mean, it’s already based in, I mean, natural

[00:45:21] Alex Tsakiris: magic, a AB absolutely. No, I can’t, I can’t argue it on, on any basis other than, , blind faith

let me try and get us back to the trade.

[00:45:31] Steven Snider: I did think Mormonism is a better faith for the 21st century than like Protestantism. It certainly, I think as, uh, more to offer a contemporary audience, which is

[00:45:40] Alex Tsakiris: why. I got you. No, it’s, uh, you know, pick your PO if it’s a pick your poison world, I, I get your point.

Like, so, so here’s where I wanna, I wanna kind of wind it back. If there is any trail to this that people can follow, let’s get back to Aquino and, , so help people process this Aquino is a Ker. In the army, he is an outward, open Satanist. He’s a Satanist chaplain, which is just, which is, again, all the, the Satanism stuff.

There was always gonna be this kind of trickster, Satanism, deception kind of thing at play and, and just RI people, you know, trigger people and, and that you gotta see in Aquino’s thing, but then there’s also a serious part of it too. You know, you’re not raping, , little kids, six and seven years old for those purposes.

But my point is . People in the army know who he is. And the only, the only conclusion we can make from that is that that’s okay. , uh, how are we processing that? Is it a, by any means necessary kind of thing? So help us understand how you process that. And then in particular, you just had a whole truth bomb on Fort Bragg and the super soldier thing, which ties into this, right?

This is like, it’s the same stream. It’s just a further bit, further bit down,

[00:47:06] Steven Snider: right? Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, essentially again, it goes into how Aquino and a lot of these other guys would try to envision, uh, the joint special operations command, essentially a modern, special operations forces. I mean, okay.

So to go back a little bit to Korea and like the second world war, where a lot of this kind of got going with like cults, like the Moonies and whatnot, and this is something ed and I looked a lot at, uh, leading up to his death. We just weren’t getting, you know, the results from the troops that we wanted.

I mean, and that was a big concern. You had a lot of defection, you had a lot of people deserting and so forth. And we were looking at these, you know, communist cadres who seemed almost fearless. And what were they doing that we. Were missing. And that was kind of what started all these investigations and the brainwashing.

And I think one of the big things that they realized is that they needed a political cult to go with these elite lawyer units. And that was really something that was enshrined in the special operations forces through what is known as the civil military affairs committee, which nobody talks about. And Jao was spent.

Most of that part of his career involved with simple affairs is the whole hearts and minds thing. Okay. It’s basically a massive psychological operation that we use a lot of retired military officers for. And it seems like the guys who were put into that. Or also being used to create the kind of mytho around which you could use to build this sort of warrior lead within the us military forces.

And in keynote is really implicit about this in his mind war series. I mean, he basically wants to reenvision the civil affairs branch is the para apolitical branch, which I find to be a great bit of irony to create a unified ideology for a Polish devoid of a social contract altogether, basically replacing any concept of moral, as we would understand it with this vague concept of devotion to the state and justice.

And this is something that, you know, they’ve been working towards for decades now. I mean, it didn’t just come into a vacuum here and. I mean, again, there’s a lot of reasons as to why we could say that this is being done, but I think it just sort of boils down to how this was the most effective means. I think a lot of people came to the conclusion to keep us from totally destroying ourselves as much, which we may not want to acknowledge that.

But

[00:49:24] Alex Tsakiris: I mean, what do you, what do you mean by that last part? You kind of caught me off guard there, keep us from destroying ourselves in terms of Newing each other, you mean? Yeah,

[00:49:32] Steven Snider: yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s just like, again, I mean, this is the issue where, when we look at why somebody like Landsdale wanna do all this like weird shit, but once again, like, okay, you’re Edward Landsdale in 1950, you’ve got two nuclear worm superpowers.

You know, if we continue to escalate with our conventional forces, you know, What’s gonna be left of the world. It’s gonna be a total doctor, strange love kind of scenario, but we can’t do away with physical war. I mean, our economies would collapse. There’s no alternative to it. We haven’t figured out one yet.

So I think a lot of this has just been a way to try to rebrand competition over the years. I mean, how are you gonna play these power struggles out without, you know, destroying a good chunk of the planet to make it uninhabitable for everyone. And I mean, as time is going on, they just had to make this more and more of a psychological effort.

I mean, at this point, really. It’s your populaces that you’re more concerned about, I think, than the powers that be, I mean, ultimately the world, as it stands now is divided more than anything into a struggle between the global north and the global south. All the resources are in the global south, all the major money, the the ruling parties they’re in the global north, you gotta keep the global south impoverished to keep the north humming along China, Russia, the United States, the EU, they all have an invested interest into perpetuating this system.

They all need to keep this going to keep social’s instability. I’d be just totally overwhelming things. It’s just question, I mean, how much longer we can keep the current system going? I think, but I mean, fundamentally, yeah. There’s just real issues to how you play out these power struggles. At this point with the weapon, we have

[00:51:12] Alex Tsakiris: deconstruct a little bit to that and get your take on it. So what I hear you saying, and, and I love this perspective. This is what I really, really value so much, uh, about our conversations. And they’re so terrific is you’re kind of. In the process of doing this playing, uh, you can’t even call it devil’s ad advocate, cuz you’re just adding a level of reality to it.

Here’s what I mean. You’re in the Korean war. You want to win the Korean war because losing the Korean war is really communism running over all, not just Korea, but next it’s threatening all your holding and that’s the whole thing. Every war becomes the whole Ench, whether you want to or not, if you’re engaged in it.

And part of the ways that you’re losing the war you come to understand is this psychological factor. And you’ve seen and heard reports of Mao, uh, lining up kids and saying here, now chop off the head of your mother or your. Father, because they weren’t with us in terms of the revolution. And the kid takes the machete and fucking chops off his mother father’s head.

And, you know, the Aquinos of the world. And a lot of other guys in the military who aren’t molesting little kids are like, you know, that’s the most horrible thing I’ve ever seen, but at the same time, that level of commitment and devotion is gonna be really, really hard to defeat on the battlefield. And at the same time, wouldn’t it be great if we had that level of commitment, mind, intensity, mind control in our soldiers.

So their plants, the seed for the super soldier. And, uh, and that’s what I, I kind of hear you saying, and I think what you are adding to it is like, if you don’t think that’s real, then you need to fucking think that through from a military standpoint. And tell me how you would process that any differently.

If that’s what you understood your enemy was, it would be unbelievably tempting to at least dabble in what it would mean to move in that direction. Am I getting it?

[00:53:35] Steven Snider: Yeah, I mean, I think so. And I mean, I also kind of think inly and kind of going into this era, you know, I mean, it’s also. The west Ulum piece is like breaking down, which is really where we got a lot of like our national armies from in the first place.

Okay. So in a lot of ways we’re moving back also to a kind of futile order of the world. I mean, once again, in feudalism, I mean the dominant military forces where your Knight, I mean, all that kind of other stuff, I mean, you must, you had much more of a warrior lead than what exists today with the massive conscript armies and things of that nature, which, you know, again, sadly is something that we’re moving away from.

So, I mean, that was kind of another factor, like looking at Korean, what have you, I mean, how can we do this on a scale and also how it will favor, you know? Cause once again, I mean, you know, you’re bringing all these people, teaching these elite skills and so forth, how to destabilize countries, nations and all this kind of stuff.

You don’t want these skills to get wide spread. You know what I’m saying? I mean, this is like mother’s milk, you know, you’ve gotta groom these people first off. Which is why we have a lot of these different programs. I mean, these super soldiers, these gifted programs, which usually are used as funnel grounds for some of them, Aquino went through all this stuff.

I mean, you know, you probably helped set up some of the layer programs for it. And then also, so that, you know, you can find, uh, separate the wheat from the CHF and find the people who are really going to have what it takes to run these orders. I mean, to run society at large. And I mean, I think that’s kind of another thing that’s really fascinating about the direction we’re going in is you’re seeing the emergence of so much of this sort of, uh, warrior slash priesthood elite that we’re creating.

[00:55:15] Alex Tsakiris: Well, I was with your friend, you say the priesthood elite kind of thing, cuz I think they’re separate. I think they’re very separate in the sense that tell us about Fort Bragg because Fort Bragg to me is. Evidence zero and evidence of what you’re talking about in terms of the super soldier thing, you know, working out the kinks of it might not be quite as socially acceptable as we would like.

[00:55:46] Steven Snider: Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously you’ve got people turning up dead and bunks. I mean, you’ve got people being beheaded. I mean, just, you know, and again, all of this is happening in a highly rich ritualistic fashion, which, I mean, almost makes it seem like there’s some kind of a cult war playing out there.

[00:56:00] Alex Tsakiris: So, so back, back up now, Fort Bragg.

What is Fort Bragg? What general thing are we talking about? You kind of mentioned it, but like, to what extent is it, how would we measure it in terms of counting the bodies? Are you really not just kind of exaggerating this and blowing it way out of proportion? Again, I was listening to you and Brisson and Brisson had like the stats, cuz he, you know, he’s really good with that.

You know, the, the, the murder rate at Fort Bragg is higher than, you know, like any place else in the country. And there are all these, so go, go ahead, lay us out.

[00:56:39] Steven Snider: Kind of you’re. I mean, you’re probably more likely to be murdered in Fort Bragg than, I mean, a lot of war zones right now. I mean, it’s just, you know, a wash with all kinds of drug trafficking and I mean, a lot of illicit criminal activity.

And I mean, this isn’t, you know, isolated, I mean, Fort hoods had a lot of issues with this for a while too, but I mean, what’s so crucial about Fort brag is this is basically the home on the one hand of the joint special operations command, which is all the us as elite forces, the Delta force, the Navy seals, the night stalkers and also the home of a keynotes America special, uh, army special forces as well.

This is where the JFK SIOP center is. This is where the green Berets are. I mean all this other good stuff. So this is basically the heart of the American operator culture right there. And I mean the middle of, uh, North Carolina with all this other kind of, uh, crazy stuff in the background with you know, Cape fear, the bled SOS.

I mean, some of these other operations that are kind of playing out in that general vicinity. So yeah. And I mean, Burson’s absolutely correct about that. I mean, there’s just so much crime there. It’s staggering and this has been an ongoing problem going back, uh, at least the nineties with some of the skinhead murders there, going further back to some of the strange desks with that one, uh, Dr.

McDonald or something like that in the base. But, I mean, certainly in recent years, I mean just the uptick in violence. I mean, it’s been staggering and I mean, what exactly is behind that? There’s been a lot of debate, but I mean, I do think, you know, we’re getting to the stage now where, I mean, it’s, you know, it’s going beyond this kind of like Pelican tile stuff, you know, shock treatment to the troops.

I mean, we’re doing full blown implants. I mean, all kinds of other crazy stuff truly make them into super soldiers. They’re coming back. I mean, for overseas, they’re trying to pull this crap out of them. They’re taking them off these different drugs and stuff and yeah, there’s, there’s been some casualties to put it mildly.

I don’t know if that’s how he explains why people are having their heads cut off. But

[00:58:36] Alex Tsakiris: so anyone thinks we’re kind of shooting the moon here. Let’s just connect the pieces that we’ve talked about in this show. And that was a good time to do it. We’re an hour in hour plus in, you got Landsdale. Who is putting puncture wounds in dead Filipino soldiers and draining their blood and leaving them out in the jungle so that the enemy will retrieve the bodies and come to the conclusion that vampires are, who were really up against here.

So let’s get the hell out of this fight. And then you got Satanist pedophile, Michael Aquino, picking up the Baton in Vietnam and flying around in helicopters and playing out the speakers. These moaning sounds of the wandering souls of deceased Kong pretend deceased Viet con relatives so that the troops are playing into their cultural narrative.

That if I die in a certain way, my soul will wander forever. Then we pick up the story, if you will, just to string it, to not add anything else, which we could fill in the gap with a million other things there, which you do in the show. But now we’re saying, Hey, and isn’t it curious that the natural extension of that seems to be what’s popping up in Fort Bragg that has all these connections back to these programs, which really aren’t that far ago.

It historically wise, and we’re maybe seeing the current instantiation development of that technology. Is that a fair summation?

[01:00:21] Steven Snider: Yeah. Well, I mean, I also think we’re seeing how a lot of these programs are being used on us from a psychological standpoint as well. I mean, we’ve been getting into the satanic panic through all this, but once again, to my mind that was designed exactly to gas like Christian, right.

I mean, uh, especially the way it played out in the 1980s. And then, I mean, there’s the whole UFO thing. I mean, this is just another, I think massive SIOP. I mean, it’s being put forward by the same circles here. I mean, though, probably with even more, uh, sinister implications to it,

[01:00:54] Alex Tsakiris: , except that there’s a reality behind it, except that there really are spaceships that come into our reality and do leave behind metals that we can’t explain and do interact with people.

And we don’t know what that agenda is and hell yes, there’s a million different SIOP around it. And there’s Richard Doty saying that the, you know, 20 years ago saying that the aliens like strawberry ice cream as he’s kind of the man behind the curtain in this fake interview. And then there’s Lou Elizondo, which.

God knows why anyone would listen to someone who says I’m counter intelligence and I’m here to tell you the truth. And that gets us to the point that I wanted to talk about. Uh, and I want you to fill us in on who Peter Laveda is, but my favorite Peter Laveda story, and you can hear this in, uh, uh, 2016 interview with, uh, Gordon white on Roon soup.

And again, this is 2016 before disclosure, before the New York times ran the story. And I always mention, you know, I’ve had Leslie keen on the show. I’ve had, uh, uh, Ralph Blumenthal on the show, two New York, the two people that have the byline to the story that ran in the New York times that said, okay, D the DOD is admitting.

UFOs are real. Here’s the footage, here’s the tic TAC and it is real. And I also talked to the guy who was on board, the ship, who saw it and experienced it and tracked him, uh, for days Kevin Day is his, is his name. So all that stuff is real, but associated with it is all this SIOP bullshit, spin it a million different ways in the same way that the satanic, , that the satanic ritual abuse is real, but also all the bullshit around it is true.

But back to my story, Peter, Lavena, I want you to tell us who you think he is, but here’s who I think he is Peter Levin’s story about how he wound up needing Tom DeLong. And at one point he was up on stage with the AIP people with, how put off, uh, you know, and all the other kind of, uh, a deep.

Intelligence community people that are behind this quote, unquote disclosure as if you know the intelligence organization, anyways, here, the story is, this is Peter Levin’s own word. I’m paraphrasing, but you can go listen to the interview. He says, well, I got a phone call and I picked it up and he said, hi, this is Tom DeLong.

And I hung up the phone. I mean, it couldn’t really be Tom DeLong calling me now. Number one, I don’t know how somebody like Peter Laveda of his age, even those who the hell, Tom DeLong in blink when he,

[01:03:41] Steven Snider: yeah. He’s not that old, man. He would’ve only been like, yeah, he was in his twenties in the late seventies, man.

Peter Laveda I’m pretty sure. I mean, he look, I mean, like about 20 when he went to China or something like that let’s see. No, no, I guess he would’ve been closer to 30, but yeah, he was born around 1950.

[01:03:56] Alex Tsakiris: I do not want to, uh, no, he’s 72.

[01:04:01] Steven Snider: So, yeah, he would’ve been about like what 40 or something when blink 180 2 came out.

That’s

[01:04:07] Alex Tsakiris: I think you’re being pretty. I think you’re being generous. I think he would’ve been in his fifties, but at any point the story,

[01:04:13] Steven Snider: I mean, he could be an old punk rocker. I mean, if I had to pick somebody be an old school punk, I think Laveda would,

[01:04:20] Alex Tsakiris: I’ll get, I’ll give you that one, but here’s how the rest of the story goes.

It’s like, uh, you know, Tom DeLong, 180 blink 180 2. He can’t be calling me. So he hangs up and Tom calls him back and he goes, no, it’s really me. And you know, here’s what I wanna do. We’re gonna blow the lid on this UFO thing. And Peter Laveda goes, well, gosh, you know, I guess, I guess we gotta do it. You know, you and I, we gotta blow the lid off this darn thing.

I’ll tell you what, let’s go to the CIA and get the real story, you know, which. This is the, the, the, the origin story for the bullshit disclosure that we’ve had as if this criminal organization, which has killed countless number of people in keeping this story under wraps and generated tons and tons of misinformation and disinformation over the years about sightings and swamp gas and real events and real people.

And all the, now they are the ones you are going to go to to get the truth to me, , it just fits in with everything else I’ve heard and read about Peter Laveda again, incredibly intelligent guy, , but ultimately he’s an intelligence guy and he always has been, what do you, what, what say you, Steven?

[01:05:36] Steven Snider: I mean, I think Laveda is more an asset than a full blown intelligence officer, those certain

[01:05:41] Alex Tsakiris: kids. Sure. How do you understand, let me ask you this. How do you understand when we say, uh, you know, a CIA guy, what are the different flavors of that

[01:05:49] Steven Snider: in your mind? Well, I mean, it’s basically, are you on the payroll or not, or, I mean, they’re officially liable for you.

You’re just somebody that they can use randomly when you’re useful to them. I mean, Laveda would definitely fall to me under the category of misfit toys that they like to kind of keep on the sideline and bring out at times what he’s useful. I mean, again, I think the thing that you have to understand about Laveda is he’s almost surely a discordian.

I mean, this is the whole mil U that brought, you know, the Simon agronomic on to the public in the first place. I mean, they marketed this whole thing through the discordian Illuminata network with Robert Anon, Wilson all the way through New York city. And then later on, I mean, all this stuff, Prometheus rising and all this other kind of stuff that The, uh, discordian that really promoted with these weird takes and love craft and this mystical take of, uh, this new religion and everything around it.

And, you know, I mean, Laveda has only added to that metho. I mean, especially with his most recent book rights of the mummy, I mean, this is supposed to be the first original grant themic word to come out since Kenneth granted his moral coil it’s about this guy. Uh, one of these, you know, love crafting circles, like the bake ball or some of the other stuff that, uh, you know, Michael Berio and these characters are doing, he has his holy guardian angel movements, uh, when he is going over the TOIC river in Washington, DC.

So when does it occur? July 23rd, 19, uh, 74 77. Excuse me. What is significant amount? July 23rd. Well, that’s, uh, the dog days of summer. And it’s also when Robert Anon, Wilson had his big, you know, serious moment where he’s contacted from the UFOs on July 23rd, 1973, four years to the date before this other guy was contacted by his holy guardian angel.

I mean, this is just like the kind of stuff Laveda loves doing because he knows people looks at these states. He knows that they’re gonna see the significance to all this. And I mean, the connections and how it all lines up. I mean, over bodies of water and all this different craft ties and all this other shit.

I asked Peter Lev to straight up. What about the Robert A. Wilson connections? Did you guys ever think about that exchange any letters at all with Robert A. Wilson?

[01:07:57] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. Complete nonsense, right? Complete

[01:08:00] Steven Snider: bullshit. like, you know, I mean, I never exchanged any letters with Kenneth Grant or, you know, or

[01:08:06] Alex Tsakiris: I still, oh, you’re saying, you’re saying he, he answered it in a very narrow way that would allow him to

[01:08:11] Steven Snider: yeah.

He said, yeah, he said he had never corresponded with Wilson if I remember correctly, but I think he’s insisted to me, these he’s never corresponded with grant too, which is what really blows my mind. It’s just like really Peter and I mean, you worship grant. You’ve written multiple books trying to reclaim Seth and the freaking dark Lord, but never since you’ve been following the Typhon tradition since the mid seventies, you never once sent a single solitary letter to Kenneth Grant asking him anything.

[01:08:41] Alex Tsakiris: So, so mean, do you believe that’s? So at the end of the day, who do you think somebody like Peter Laveda is, and let’s contrast it with, I hate to pick on John, uh, person, but John thinks I pick on him all the time. So who cares?

[01:08:57] Steven Snider: It’s okay. I picked John too.

[01:08:59] Alex Tsakiris: who do you think Peter Laveda is?

Versus who would someone like John think he.

[01:09:05] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, I think we’re pretty much in unison that, I mean, you know, Laveda is basically just, I mean, a toy out there. I mean, going around, I mean, spreading a lot of these different false narratives. I mean, I tend to look, you know, honestly, as Aveda as more of a gesture, if you will.

I mean, that’s really, I think a big part of a lot of this for these guys, it’s just the humor, it’s the, you know, way to go out and play a part out. And this is especially evident when you look at something like the association of former intelligence officers. I mean, most of the people in the association of former intelligence officers aren’t even spooks, it’s just a massive confidence scheme.

I mean, it really, truly is. So, I mean, this is just the whole new you, it’s just, you know, I mean, it’s part of the course. I don’t really know what you want me to say other than Levi plays this game, as well as anyone. Uh,

[01:09:52] Alex Tsakiris: no doubt, but I guess what I, what. Wanna kind of push on is I don’t think that’s what John would say.

I think John would say that he is satanic. I think John would say that he is being influenced by , extended consciousness forces that are pulling him to do, , dark, evil things. I think I’m pretty sure that would be John’s understanding of it. And that is my understanding of who.

Folks like this are, they are being influenced by dark energy in a way. Not that we all aren’t, you know, and that we all have our shadow and this and that, but that’s how I understand what’s going on there.

[01:10:34] Steven Snider: Yeah. And I mean, I don’t think that you can definitely discount the possibility and I mean that there are sinister forces guiding a lot of these people sinister

[01:10:42] Alex Tsakiris: force, as you said it didn’t

[01:10:43] Steven Snider: you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I certainly think that that’s a possibility as well. I mean, once again, you know, when you open yourself up to this, you know, channeling and stuff like that, I mean, you never know what’s gonna glimpse back at you. And I mean, I do think that that’s led to the destruction of a lot of people that have gotten involved in this kind of stuff, you know, I mean, Again, I mean, with your whole purpose to try to go around and, , rekindle interest in the dark Lord.

I mean, that doesn’t seem like something that’s going to benefit humanity in the long run. That’s kind of my, for me, the long and short of it, why of all the things you would want to create lives in around why the dark Lord, why the love crafty and old ones.

[01:11:22] Alex Tsakiris: I totally, totally agree. I, and I, I just gotta, as we wrap it up, I gotta emphasize that point.

Cause I always make it with people who have this intellectual force like Lavena does, and they can kind of spin you around in circles with the argument. But then the ultimate thing is like, Yeah, but Peter, why the fuck does it have to be you doing it? You know what I mean? I mean, if, if, if evil will be done, okay, I’ll, I’ll buy that.

You have to be the guy, you know, you’re the one who raises your hand say, okay, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll go create the discord. I’ll go create the chaos. I’ll go, you know,

[01:12:00] Steven Snider: somebody’s gotta got dont . I mean, you know, he’s as good at it as anyone. I mean, I mean, and it’s not to say that there aren’t some perks to this. I mean that, I mean, that’s just the sort of thing after looking at this, I mean, for so many years now, I mean, there really are people that are just this insane to make this their life mission.

And I mean, God, you know, I mean, live out a character or something like that. I mean, believing that your whole life is a work of fiction or something to that effect. But I mean, seems like this is becoming more and more a thing every day. I don’t understand it, but this is the direction we are heading

[01:12:34] Alex Tsakiris: at.

Yeah, that’s a very interesting, there’s a couple interesting points there that you made, but it’s like, yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of hours in the day to fill up, you know, and you’re gonna be on Twitter or, you know, watching YouTube or well, why the hill not try and connect with the dark Lord for a couple?

You know, I got a couple hours despair, you know, I could, I could do that.

[01:13:00] Steven Snider: Well, I mean, to me, it’s, the more disturbing thing about all of this is just the fact that these, you know, people are going, I mean, people have already gotten hurt by this and they’re gonna continue to get hurt by this. You know? I mean, I don’t like to really get into some, the stuff that’s happened to me, but I mean, I’ve had people show up in my residency, you know, like three in the morning and park the car outside and just leave the lights on when I’m turning all the lights on my house or something like that.

I mean, you know, I live in the middle of West Virginia in a very isolated place. Alex, if. The right neighbor comes along and sees a car just randomly sitting out in front of my driveway like that in the middle of the night, somebody’s gonna get shot. Okay. That’s what’s gonna happen with some of this stuff.

And that’s what really worries me about this is I, I don’t think that a lot of people are going in this direction really understand, you know, this isn’t a game for a lot of people, you know, you keep running around and doing this kind of stuff. I mean, somebody is really gonna get hurt eventually from this kind of insanity.

And, you know, it’s, it’s not gonna be fun for a lot of the people involved at any number of levels.

[01:14:06] Alex Tsakiris: You know, Steven, there’s really no need to end this conversation now, cuz we could just keep going and going, but we have to end it at some point so I guess this is as good as any tell us, uh, and the time we have left, , what’s coming up on the farm. What’s coming up on the blog. We just touched on, on so much great stuff. And uh, Patreon. What are the Patreon members going to be seeing that no one else gets to see what’s what’s what’s coming

[01:14:39] Steven Snider: up. Well, you get access to all those great documents I got from Wisconsin, uh, from Betty four to keynote and all the, uh,

[01:14:46] Alex Tsakiris: good stuff.

You are really into the Wisconsin thing. I can’t let you go without, uh, riffing

[01:14:50] Steven Snider: on. I got my house on my rock shirt right there.

[01:14:54] Alex Tsakiris: Okay. So come on, tell us, tell us a little bit on the Wisconsin thing.

[01:14:57] Steven Snider: Well, I’m gonna get into that a lot in the strange realities thing, but it’s just, you know, crazy. I mean, that’s such a forte Mecca, and it’s just so unexplored, but I mean, it really meant to me with house of the rock and with Neil Goman when he kind of made this comment, if he could just understand house in the rock, I mean, he could understand America and our kind of broader culture.

Uh, but to me it’s just, it’s so important because that’s a big part of just who we are and a big part of our native spirituality here, these kind of roadside attractions and so forth. I mean, You know, I think we’re kind of closer to the same age, you know, probably social economic background, where we grew up with families that were more mobile.

I mean, I’m sure you remember all those great roadside attractions, you know, if you ever did the highways with your parents, like Boone North Carolina, where you could take it, some those road shows and stuff like that. And I mean, to me, that’s like the quintessential America outside of like the Walmarts and the best buys and the strip malls.

And it’s something I wanna reserve for people because we’re losing it. And that I think are the true shrines that we’ve really built here. I mean, I think goin absolutely hit the head and now I’m ahead, took an English man of course, to point it out to us. But this is really the kind of, you know, indigenous American spirituality, just the culture that we created here, absent, you know, the old God kind of created this new postmodern, uh, mythos and I mean, it’s so just gloriously encompassed in that spring Grove area, because you have Tallon there, you.

And all the Welsh influences that Frank Lloyd Wright’s family brought in, you have all this rash ion stuff that Alex Jordan brought there with house in the rocks and you’ve gots sanctuary. It’s only like 10 miles away and they’re bringing in all this Neo and the bared culture and all this other stuff, and it’s just near a spot like that.

It’s just so remarkably vibrant with all the different spiritual currents playing out there. I mean, it really is like a magical spot and. I want people to remember that there are still places like that out there. I mean, I know this has probably been a major downer interview where people think that I, well, I am extremely, uh, worried about the future that we’re going in, but I mean, that’s also why I think it’s important to do these kind of episodes because there is still a lot of goodness left in this country.

And I think it’s, when you look at these, uh, these kind of quaint things like that is where you really see the true American character. And these are the things that I wanna preserve for future generations. I want us to be able to go out there and experience these kind of these untapped shrines. I mean, out in the middle of nowhere for our kids and so forth.

I mean, I just breaks my heart to think, I mean that there’s a whole generation that’s growing up now where, I mean, all they’ve got are just those devices, man. You know, I mean,

[01:17:36] Alex Tsakiris: you know, the other thing that you’re tapping into that is, uh, lost is the state. Pride or the state identity or the reality of that, you know, you’re from West Virginia, incredibly, you know, rich, uh, tradition there, Wisconsin.

Again, I grew up in Illinois and the identity in Illinois is either Chicago or everything else, you know? So Chicago has a strong identity, but Wisconsin had a very different identity. You could almost say different energy, , Michigan, which I have connection to on my mother’s completely different energy.

And I think that that is lost on a lot of people. Exactly what you’re saying. Exactly what you’re saying.

[01:18:20] Steven Snider: And I think we can do it, you know, I mean, that’s one of the big things that I’ve been so fascinated by are these sort of, you know, networking as a sort of, uh, replacement for, uh, the current political structures that, uh, we’re being, you know, essentially torn down all around us.

Because I mean, again, it’s a way I think, to both harmonize transnational aspirations with local aspirations, I mean, it’s a voluntary association and I mean, this is why I really love this stuff that, you know, Alex and Chris and, uh, Miguel are doing with like the astronomic stuff, because you’re taking.

This glorious network that you’ve put together and you’re starting to bring it into the real world. And that to me is the big thing that we need to do, you know, going forward, we need to start developing these kinds of nodes. I mean, this is something that the new age community must say has really done to great effect.

And to me, when I just look at like the kind of broader high weirdness pair, weird community, I kind think why not us? We know all of these great out of the way spots in the United States where people can rediscover their heritage. We have this network that is transnational. We’re building these different connections.

I mean, I think that at some point, you know, somebody is gonna have to show. Way going forward to how we get out of the current quagmire. And it’s basically a question of it gonna be people like us, or is it gonna be the Michael Aquinos of the world, because this is what they’re looking at as the solution to so,

[01:19:44] Alex Tsakiris: oh, AB absolutely.

That’s what I was gonna ask you next. Uh, as we wrap it up, uh, are you okay with one world state and if you’re not, well, I don’t

[01:19:51] Steven Snider: think it has to be one world

[01:19:52] Alex Tsakiris: state though. Well, well, no bullshit. Of course, of course it does. Because if you look at it from an exo political standpoint, that is, you know, where it’s, where it’s heading and where it’s always been heading and really from a, a political, from a.

Political science standpoint. It’s the only thing that makes sense. Historically, you have all these little tribes and then they get together and they become the group tribe and they could come to the state. So, uh, you know, well, I mean, K Schwab KLO Schwab is going to have some influence in moving this towards as is the, is I think that, but you’re pointing to, I think what you’re pointing to and you actually said, the words is that, you know, and I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, but I wanna kind of reimagine what you’re saying is you can also imagine a, a future where they are pushing us towards identification with oh, I’m from Wisconsin to, uh, uh, AME the fact that you could no longer really be from anything called the United States of having any kind of meaning.

It’s like more just identify with that because that’ll kind of make it fit better into the globalism that we’re headed towards. Well,

[01:21:06] Steven Snider: I mean, I think there’s definitely that risk, but I don’t think that the globalism is a F a company. I, because the simple instability of it, which I think we’re really seeing breakdown now.

I mean, you point towards bigger and political structures, but I mean, the Soviet union is perhaps already, uh, the EU looks like it’s on the rope. There’s a very good possibility. The United States and the people’s Republic of China could drift into civil wars in the coming decades. I mean, I just think that you reach a certain point where a political system becomes too big and it becomes too unstable because there’s no flexibility to it.

I mean, a lot of ways, this is what happened. I mean, with the Roman empire as well, I mean, and kind of its latter years, there was just. The two things that I think that really work against that on the one hand are just the complexity to try to keep everything running seamlessly. And then secondly, just the corruption.

I mean, that’s kind of the other thing when you have these busy and time political systems, I mean, so much stuff is pissed away. It’s siphoned away on useless administrators and so forth. So you have to eventually streamline the process. And I think that’s sorry, we gotta wrap up. Oh,

[01:22:11] Alex Tsakiris: no, no, not at all, buddy.

I just, I just asked my wife to close the door. So there wasn’t any outside noise. Cause I was trying to try to get the air conditioning again, but you just set a point. I want you to, I want you to riff on that for a minute, cuz it is a brilliant moment. I’ve never heard that or thought about that, but corruption in the, uh, mafioso, ization of every society, it’s kinda a counterbalance.

It’s kind of a counterbalance. Yeah. To some of the things. That’s what I hear you saying. Yeah. Well, I mean just

[01:22:40] Steven Snider: look at like Ukraine. I mean we’ve already sent like almost a trillion dollars I think in arms there. And I mean, they have got Jack’s shit of it. I mean, they’re not even gonna get most of the guns for another like five years or something like that.

And this is sustainable. This is how you’re gonna crush the Russians. You can’t even freaking fuel the halfway decent army in Ukraine with the weapons. I mean that we currently have. I mean, this is why I’m really skeptical of globalism as it currently stands. And why? I think that we do have an ability to preserve some vestiges of local control over a lot of this stuff, because I mean, it seems like going forward, you know, we do need that regional identification.

And I think that that is something again, to kind of go back to the new age movement that they have done effectively. I mean, you really have brought up built strong local communities in areas like Northern California, shockingly in places like Wisconsin. I mean, you’ve got commune there. Dreamtime village, Hakeem Bayes hole set up.

You’ve got the freaking thing. That’s Kenneth grands, people were going at devil lake, got the circle sanctuary 500 acres there. You’ve got all the different spiritualist camps and stuff like that. And I mean, I kind of think this is gonna be the future, you know, God willing going forward. For those of us who want a positive future, we’re gonna have to go out there and create our own communities.

And we’re gonna have to find a way to link them, you know, economically and politically through what could be a very challenging. I mean international order going forward, and it’s not gonna be easy, but I mean, I think that, you know, we have a way going forward based on what we’ve seen, that we can do this and still preserve these great local traditions.

You know what I’m saying? Without being totally subsumed by just this, you know, I mean these insane hierarchies,

[01:24:24] Alex Tsakiris: I do know what you’re saying. It’s strangely optimistic from the most weird angle I’ve ever heard. but in a way that’s, that seems much more real than any of the other shit that we’re normally fed in terms of optimism.

So Stephen, in the time we do have left, tell us what’s coming up on, , the podcast on the blog and on

[01:24:50] Steven Snider: ther. You’re definitely gonna be getting a lot more weird Wisconsin and stuff. You’re gonna be seeing more of my home movies. I’m from Tian, from house in the rock. I’ve got a new project coming forward.

I’m super excited about that. I’m probably gonna reveal kind of at the strange realities conference coming up here. Uh, couple of weeks now, I guess get access to all the Aquino documents, all my different investigations and this other stuff. Uh, gosh, you know, I mean just all the different travels I do. I mean, that’s something that, I mean, again, I’m really trying to push because it seems like people just love seeing, uh, these out of the way spots.

I mean, I want people to see them. I want people to go there and experience them the way I’ve experienced them. And yeah, I’m gonna continue looking at this mysterious society of Cincinnati. Uh, more, I look at it, the more I’m convinced, that’s kind of the key of understanding on almost all modern American history.

Uh, so that’s. Find out. I mean, just what utter pieces of shit. The founding fathers really were on the farm just with

[01:25:48] Alex Tsakiris: uncles. Well, you know, I, I, I don’t know. We, we, at some point maybe we’ll talk about that cuz uh, I don’t know, you know, we’re all pieces of shit. That’s the, at different times they tried, they did

[01:26:02] Steven Snider: try, I’ll give

[01:26:02] Alex Tsakiris: them that.

It’s like, what are the options? You know, what are the options? So, uh, yeah, and

[01:26:09] Steven Snider: I mean, that’s where I do try to be, you know, a realist with some of this stuff because I mean, again, I’m utopian as, I mean, I try to believe as much and moral absolutes, but I mean, I also understand that. I mean, it’s a lot of gray in the world, you know?

I mean, there’s not always good decisions to be made. And I mean, that is something that I do, you know, I can give at least some credence to some of the perspectives or choices made by people like Henry Kissinger. I mean, as much as I hate to admit something like that,

[01:26:33] Alex Tsakiris: oh, please don’t go there. You almost had me.

And then.

[01:26:39] Steven Snider: You know, but I mean, sometimes there are terrible choices. I mean, where there just aren’t good solutions out there. And I mean, these are some of the choices that these people had to make. And I mean, unfortunately they become, I think too detached from reality to this point to be trusted with them.

[01:26:54] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. And that’s where I kind of kick in with the spiritual and go,

[01:26:58] Steven Snider: do you, when him Kissinger becomes the voice of reason, you know, you’re fucked.

[01:27:03] Alex Tsakiris: that’s right. That’s right. That’s a, that’s a perfect way to end it a again, our guest has Ben Steven Snyder host of the farm. And, , please, please check him out.

Just enjoy, enjoy this conversation. And the next one will have down the road, not too long. I hope Steven. Thanks again, man. You’re

[01:27:24] Steven Snider: awesome. Yeah. And, uh, John want, you know, you’re in his thoughts and prayers as Alex, Alex.

[01:27:29] Alex Tsakiris: Likewise. I love John. I really do. I appreciate him.

===

[01:27:32] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks again to Steven Snyder for joining me to dance KEPCO. The one question I tee up from this interview is.

What are the moral issues of the super soldier?

As we stretch the boundaries of how far can we go? What about the question of how far should we go?

Let me know your thoughts. Love to hear from you love to hear intelligent discussion. That adds to my limited knowledge base helps me grow. So, if you want to engage in that, please send me some links, send me some info. Come join me in the skeptical forum. Until next time. Take care and bye for now.

[00:00:07] clip: She passionate Jane, to hear from you.

Until next time take care Bye for now

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