Investigative reporter Sarah Westall dives deep into the the insidious cycle of human trafficking, prostitution and human compromise.
photo by: Skeptiko
(clip from the Sopranos)
Forget it, this game is not for you.
No, it’s just, you know, I was thinking it would be a kick.
Davey, you’re a nice guy, I like you, okay? But trust me, this game’s not for you. I don’t want to see you get hurt.
That’s a scene from the Sopranos. Here Tony is luring his lifelong friend into a card game that he can’t afford.
…You told me not to get in the game. Why do you let me do it?
Well, I knew you had this business here Davey, it’s my nature. The frog and the scorpion, you know? Hey, you’re not the first guy to get busted out. This is how a guy like me makes a living, this is my bread and butter.
Yeah, the scorpion and the frog, isn’t that the way it is? I mean, some of us are just put here to exploit other people, that’s what we do.
Sarah Westall: …he ended up working for the New York Police Department. They brought him in and said, “Can you figure out what’s going on with this prostitution problem that we have?”
So, he was put in charge of figuring out prostitution. He said it took him three weeks to figure out that everything we’d learned about prostitution was BS. Prostitution, at its core, is about human trafficking. The majority, 99% of them are forced to be there and if they don’t do their work, the stuff that happens to them is really incredible.
Then he also talks about the human compromise, the human compromise at the very highest levels. Admirals in the military, CEOs, people running for president.
Alex Tsakiris: So compromise… I get a prostitute thing, and when I say prostitute, that may conjures up the wrong image, because in some cases, yes, it is some woman and we can imagine it like Pretty Woman in the movie [even though it’s not], but in other cases we can’t even pretend it’s that.. when it’s an 11-year-old boy or a 9-year-old girl, or all of these other really sick things that are out there.
But let’s lump all of that together and [call it prositution], then we have some room in the back of an apartment that has a bunch of hidden cameras and microphones in it, the target is going to be lured back in there and then at the end of the day the person who was taping it, the person who has that stuff is going to go and knock on that guy’s door and say, “Look what I’ve got, what are you going to do now?” Or, “I’ll tell you what you’re going to do now.”
I’ve explored this topic before on Skeptiko, and I’ve always come at it more from the spiritual angle, in terms of the nature of evil Because the Crowleyan, Luciferian, “Do what thou wilt,” fuzzy morality around evil never seemed very satisfying to me, and I wanted to approach the topic from that direction. What’s interesting about today’s show, with the extraordinary investigative journalist who you just heard, Sarah Westall, is that she takes us into the same evil from a different direction, the pragmatic, Tony Soprano, get things done perspective.
Sarah Westall is doing great work and I commend her for bravely covering this topic that is systematically and intentionally ignored by the mainstream media for reasons that are all too obvious.
Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Sarah Westall to Skeptiko. Sarah is a successful corporate IT professional, turned entrepreneur, turned investigative journalist and independent broadcaster.
I ran across Sarah’s amazing YouTube channel where she’s published some really highly controversial interviews that, in some ways intersect with some of the topics we’ve been bumping into here on Skeptiko. So, out of the blue, more or less, I invited her on and I’m super glad that she agreed to join me.
Sarah, welcome to Skeptiko. Thanks again so much for joining me.
Sarah Westall: Well thank you for inviting me. It’s my pleasure.
Alex Tsakiris: Well, as I just, kind of alluded to, we’re going to have to stitch this together a little bit, in terms of where I’m coming from with a science and spirituality podcast that’s mainly focused on consciousness to where you’re at. But I’m open to where that goes, because I really don’t know much about you other than your work. So, let’s start, tell folks, who is Sarah Westall?
Sarah Westall: Well, who is Sarah Westall? I could tell you what I do for my work, let’s go with that. My channel and what I’m trying to do is document the edge of society in what we’re doing. I really started with science and changes in business and all of these things and you run into, a lot of the corruption, because I couldn’t understand why such amazing advances in science and business wasn’t allowed to go forward when it helps so many people.
So I started to really dive into what’s going on with society as well, because that effects the edge of change. It’s always about the edge of change and what’s going on and the edge of our understanding.
So I deal with science and business and society and politics, all trying to get into the cutting edge of what’s going on and that brings me into a lot of corruption, it brings me into consciousness conversations, it brings me into religion, it brings me into all of those things that are affecting us in society right now. There’s so much change going on and I know you feel it, everybody feels it.
I am in the process of, how do we document this and understand it in a very ethical and moral way, so that we can get people understanding it as well and the conversation going, so we can move in a direction that we feel good about as a society?
Alex Tsakiris: Okay, you’re keeping it really high level there, we’ll have to dig a little bit deeper.
Sarah Westall: Okay, I could do that.
Alex Tsakiris: I’m intrigued by your personal background, but I don’t want to go too far into that other than to maybe elaborate on what you just mentioned. If someone goes to your website, they’ll find this Business Game Changers which you alluded to and seems to be your public professional brand if you will. But these interviews, and you’ve framed them up one way, but I think most people who encounter, for example, your interview with retired New York City detective, Jimmy Boots, who has personal knowledge of some very, very, high level, highly politically connected people who are involved in just the most horrible sex crimes against children.
Then the headline from this interview for me is that he believes that somewhere between 30 at the absolute minimum, to 70% of every significant government, military, intelligence official is compromised.
So, you go from Business Game Changers to that and to an interview with Kevin Annett, a priest, a Canadian in the Catholic Church, who has personally witnessed high ranking clergy members performing occult and satanic practices carried out inside church [crowns 00:07:55].
So you can stitch that back together the way that you did and I appreciate, so appreciate the way you framed it up, of the edge of change and the edge of understanding, but doesn’t this just rock our world in a way that we can’t really put the pieces back together? Don’t you feel that?
Sarah Westall: Well, it’s full of trauma, right? But if you’re going to heal and doctors know this; part of the healing process is facing the trauma. If you ignore the trauma, you can’t heal from it and especially if you can’t stop what’s causing the trauma in the first place, you obviously can’t heal.
In the case of Jimmy Boots, he really came across the point of human compromise. So all of this stuff is about human compromise. The people in power want to control others and they do it through human compromise. It’s all about forcing people to do what they need them to do and they don’t care about the actual people who they hurt in the process because they feel the ends justify the means, whatever their ends are.
Alex Tsakiris: Sarah, let’s break that down for folks because there’s a lot to cover there that I think probably you and I will jump right into and maybe leave people behind. Number one, the biggest hurdle I see for the people I talk to is the, how can this be issue. So people want to just dismiss all of this stuff and refuse to believe it because they’re, “Hey, I’m an intelligent person, I read the news, whatever my news source is. If this stuff was really happening at this level, I would know about it.”
So, the first thing that the Jimmy Boots series of interviews you do, the first thing that accomplishes is that that shatters that. At least to me it does.
Sarah Westall: Until people realize that they’re not getting the truth from the mainstream media, they’ll continually be in denial and it’s going to continue. The abuse and rape and torture of children are going to continue until they stop listening to the mass media and start doing their own research.
So that’s what they have on their shoulders. Kids are going to continue to be trafficked, abused and murdered until you stop listening to the mass media and start doing your own research and listening to actual people on the ground doing the research. They have to start opening their eyes and minds.
Alex Tsakiris: Okay, I said we would talk about compromise and you’ve brought it up several times. I just think we need to dig into it one further layer deeper because I think, until you wrestle with it and kind of toss it around in your mind and understand it from a very, kind of Machiavellian way, at least this is my opinion, you don’t really get it.
If you were running an agency, let’s say that was granting visas to foreign citizens, imagine the advantage you have if every key player in that small group of yours that you’re running has been compromised, if they’re all pedophiles and you have pictures, you have videos, you have testimony, you know their dirty deeds. Imagine the power, the complete power that you would wield over a group like that and you would have the ability then to go to anyone who wanted access to that service that you provide, the visa service, and you could completely control what happens there.
So, I think until people really wrap their head around that from a Machiavellian standpoint, this is exactly what you’d want if you were trying to get stuff done.
Sarah Westall: Yeah, exactly. They’ve come to conclusion that if they really want the power and control, they need to do this and that’s what they do, but you’ve got to think about it at a very broad level. This is wars, this is taking over countries, this is controlling the leader in a country. It’s pretty broad and it’s pretty extreme and it’s pretty thorough.
Alex Tsakiris: So that, maybe in a way, brings us back to one of the things that I wanted to talk about, because especially that last part that you did. If we understand it, as soon as you shift it into that perspective Sarah, we have a whole other problem to deal with, in terms of, you’re associated with the very excellent Carson School of Business, there at the University of Minnesota, or at least you used to be. You understand, you’ve been in the business world. You understand that a lot of the business world is a, kind of getter done, kind of left-hand path enterprise, no matter how you cut it.
So you can go and look at Coca-Cola and a lot of people hate Coca-Cola because they’ll point out the human rights abuses they do in this country or that country. Then, you look at a corporation like DynCorp, which is directly implicated in child trafficking, organ harvesting, the worst of the worst kinds of things, and then there are all of these little steps.
So, how big of a leap is it from DynCorp to Coca-Cola to what we’re learning at the Carson School of Business, the University of Minnesota? How do we balance the ethics of, we have to get it done, we have to make our numbers, we have to defend our country, we have to preserve our freedoms? It all gets really grey and murky really quickly, doesn’t it, or am I blurring lines that don’t need to be blurred?
Sarah Westall: No, they do blur but that’s human behavior that causes it to blur. A lot of the business schools teach ethics and a lot of the people that work at the business schools are good people, they don’t want you going out and harvesting organs. When they’re teaching you business, they’re not thinking that you’re going to go out and harvest organs. But the business practices for harvesting organs and selling soda pop is pretty similar. I mean, you can apply the same principles to whatever it is that you’re buying and selling.
Even in politics, when you’re learning about politics and somebody owes you a favor and you wield more power than they do and all of those concepts, in light of ethics, it’s the same thing whether you’re moral or whether you’re using it in a really corrupt manner. The same principles apply. Does that make sense?
Alex Tsakiris: Well, it makes sense to me but then that really, really brings us to the larger spiritual question and spiritual dimensions to all of this and I don’t know how we even begin to pull that apart, except maybe I would tee up as a lead into that, the series of outstanding, just unbelievably groundbreaking interviews you did with Kevin Annett. So maybe you want to introduce folks to who Kevin is, a little bit about his background and then some of the things you touched on in several of the interviews that you did.
Sarah Westall: Well, Kevin Annett is a very, very courageous man. There’s a documentary that I have, that I posted on my YouTube channel, of his background, but he was a pastor, a minister and he realized that… It’s a long story but in his congregation a lot of them were Native Americans and he ended up running into and learning about the problem of boarding schools, the assimilation camps or schools of Native Americans and learned that over 50% of those kids that were sent, when they were five and six, to these schools for assimilation purposes, to learn our culture, didn’t come out of there alive. They were killed, they were treated so horribly that they’d die in these places. He learned about all of these stories about what happened and the abuses and the atrocities and he exposed it and the Church was heavily involved. The Church was involved in the assimilation programs and it’s very well documented, these schools.
At the time he was exposing the Church that he was involved with and they didn’t like that very much and they went after him hard. Instead of admitting their crimes and being repentant and saying, “I am so sorry, and we can’t do this,” they buckled down and got rid of him and covered up the crimes and he realized that the Church, at the higher levels, were not about taking the gospel seriously, not about taking the teachings of Jesus Christ seriously, they had another agenda going on and that’s when he woke up. Because people who take the teachings of Jesus Christ would never allow this to occur in their world and would never turn their back on the victims of these horrible abuses.
Alex Tsakiris: Well, that’s always kind of a loaded thing when we introduce Jesus Christ and Christianity. I mean, where do you draw the line there because you can turn back the clock of history and try and find that pure starting point? I’ve done it, it just vanishes, it slips through your fingers.
Sarah Westall: I don’t know where your audience is at. A lot of people follow the teachings of Jesus, but even if you’re not a Christian and you’re more into the science of consciousness and stuff, the teachings, at some point, you know what’s good, you know the light, the Emoto water; when you have hate the water changes its shape, when you have love it’s a different crystal shape. We know that the feelings of love are about health and prosperity. We know it changes you at a very core level and that’s the higher-level consciousness that Jesus and those like him, whether you believe in that character or not, is trying to teach people.
Alex Tsakiris: Sure. So, as a representation, embodiment of this good versus evil dynamic, but then even that is problematic.
Before we leave this too far, I do want to talk about what you reveal in that interview, just at a high level, and then people can go and check it out and dig into it as deep as they want, but Kevin’s revelations about what he personally experienced in terms of satanic practices, occult practices within the Catholic Church, within other church organizations that he’s seen, are truly startling. It’s another one of those, how can this be, kind of moments.
I have friends who are still church goers or Catholics still giving money to the Church, despite all that’s happened and there’s a major kind of shifting, personal thing that has to go on, in terms of, like you were saying about absorbing this information, on the edge of understanding, expanding our understanding, relaxing a little bit and saying, “I do live in a world where this stuff happens, what am I going to do about it?” But I want you to, maybe just share with people what that was like for you to, first dig into this and understand what he saw and tell us what he saw, because the satanic part is just going to flip people out, especially inside the Church.
Sarah Westall: I’ve heard it from multiple different angles, from multiple witnesses and things, and Jimmy Boots has his own story of the Church being infiltrated and purposely putting pedophiles in place so they can launder money through the Church and control the drug trade and the money needed for wars. That was more from a pure detective standpoint and then from Kevin Annett’s standpoint, what he learned about the satanic rituals.
The point is, is that the Catholic Church… I mean, this is where people who are Catholics are going to have a hard time with this and it’s because Rome wanted to control the people and they had a pagan religion which is the worship of Satan and sacrificing children and animals and to control the people they put together this religion that they could control. That’s what the researchers are finding, and they kept their practices of sacrificing humans in their Church.
Sarah Westall: I have a two-part interview of somebody whose dad was high up in the democratic party doing a lot of fundraising and stuff and he procured children for politicians and for wealthy individuals in California and that area of the country and this character explained what was going on. He was a victim and it was the most awful thing I’ve ever heard. He bore his soul. It was the first time he went public with it and he bore his soul and he talked about ritual sacrifice. He talked about these kids as young as six, five or six years old being abused and he said that sometimes they were so injured that you knew they weren’t going to make it alive, out of these things. He said he was nine and he was one of the older ones at the time, so they’d comfort the younger ones.
It was just incredible the stories. He went into detail that I can’t go into; I don’t like to talk about it at that level of detail, but he did because he felt it was necessary and I asked the detail questions in that interview and I welcome anybody to listen to it. I actually warn people that you might have to shut it off and then turn it back on. It might take you four attempts to get through it. It’s that shocking and it’s that hard.
You can just tell this guy is bearing his soul and this is what witnesses are going through, the trauma. I mean, it’s one thing for me to hear about it and be traumatized, it’s another thing for these poor victims to be traumatized. They actually had to live through it.
Alex Tsakiris: Right, so it’s really important, I think, fantastic for you to get that information out there, absolutely horrible that you have to get that information out there, that this is a reality, but absolutely, absolutely kudos to you for doing it, especially when you look at satanic ritual abuse and how it’s portrayed, how it’s covered up.
Anyone who wants to follow, as you were alluding to, the media stream there and how that story gets just covered up again and again and every time it pops up there’s some kind of phony-baloney, false memory syndrome, board certified, funded by NAMBLA, kind of crazy thing. Or then it’s turned into satanic panic, “Ha-ha-ha, satanic panic, wasn’t that crazy?” Then you go back and look at McMartin and it doesn’t look like satanic panic anymore.
So, do you want to speak to that at all, in terms of how we’ve been mesmerized into believing that this isn’t true? Because we certainly, like you said, we want to believe that this isn’t true because it is hard to put your head on the pillow at night and think about this level of human suffering going on in your fricking neighborhood. In your neighborhood.
Sarah Westall: Sometimes it’s hard to believe this level of trauma is going on until you suffer something yourself that kind of wakes you up or you see it yourself. It’s just kind of human nature.
Human beings, I keep saying, this is not normal. Normally, human beings don’t do this to children, so I still have some stumbling blocks too thinking that there’s just something wrong with these people that are beyond what I understand at this moment. Maybe there’s some science I don’t understand that’s being used against them. I just don’t understand how a human being can do this, but the media, how they cover it up…
Like Ben Swann, he was a Fox 9 journalist, who actually did serious investigative work on Pizzagate. It was really objective, it was really good. He didn’t come to any conclusions, but he just didn’t laugh about it, he didn’t mock it, he just seriously talked about it. The next day he was off the air. Anybody who doesn’t mock and laugh at it is let go and they can’t work again. I mean, that’s what they do.
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