Rey Hernandez’s contact with non-human intelligence has led to the most comprehensive scientific study of extended consciousness experiences and the paranormal.
photo by: Skeptiko
[clip from Project Blue Book]
Crazy about that saucer, eh?
The whole town’s on edge about it. Everyone that comes in here, that’s all they want to talk about.
Well, you can tell them all it was just the weather. No aliens in Florida right now.
Yeah, that we know of.
That’s a clip from the new History Channel series, Project Blue Book and although some claim that the series doesn’t stick close enough to the real history of the US government’s investigation into UFOs and ET contact, I would suggest that it does a pretty good job of reminding us of that history and documenting that history. Because, of course, the problem is, real science of this kind, the kind that Dr Allen Hynek in Project Blue Book was trying to do, is hard to come by.
Rey Hernandez: We had numerous PhD academics involved in this. We had a PhD statistician involved, Dr Russell Scalpone. We had the advice of Dr Dean Radin throughout this process. So it was really a collaborative research effort with academics and researchers.
Alex Tsakiris: This is a total paradigm shift. I don’t care how much you’ve studied UFOs. I don’t care how on the cutting-edge you think you are of conspiracy, alt news, whatever. What we’re asking people to do is take that leap to say, “Okay, well then somebody has to study what’s going on, and here’s a guy who studied it, and he studied it scientifically and now let’s talk about his findings.” And we’re talking about fricking reptilians versus greys versus spirit beings and we’re comparing and contrasting the percentage of people who said they had this kind of contact or that kind of contact.
So before I get onto this interview with the very excellent Rey Hernandez, who has nearly single-handedly created this entire movement of the scientific investigation of contact experiences and he’s drawn to them some of the brightest and most important advanced thinkers we have of our time. I just can’t say enough about what he’s done and about what he reveals in this interview. But before we get to that interview and my poking at Rey, which you’ve got to know I’m going to do, let me return to the Project Blue Book clip, because there’s another interesting little point from that scene that relates to today’s interview.
So the lights on the game would have given out approximately 50,000 Lumens. On a clear night, 5,000 feet, that would diffuse to approximately 100th of that, taking into account the fraction, wind current, the fact that the balloons, cone shapes.
What are you saying?
Did you just put on that song?
In your notes you said that Fuller said, the song, that song, told him that he was in danger and you’ve just put it on.
Because one of the findings from Rey’s work, and a messy finding it is, is that the UFO, ET stuff cannot be easily separated from all of that which we call paranormal.
Rey Hernandez: These were overwhelming positive experiences. Number two, it resulted in a positive transformation of the experiencer. Number three and four is that these experiences were primarily not physical, they were primarily paranormal. That was number three. Number four is that these experiences involve a manipulation of space-time.
Stick around, I have a great chat coming up with Rey Hernandez.
Alex Tsakiris: Today’s guest, Rey Hernandez, heads an organization and I’ve been trying to think how to say this, but there’s really no other way, because Rey Hernandez’s free organization is doing some of the most important research in the world, period. I mean, when you get a group of top PhD scientists researching the nature of and implications of our ongoing contact with highly advanced, non-human intelligence, what most people call ET, and in a minute Rey’s going to go even way beyond that, but when you even have that, what is more important than that?
I want to kind of frame this up and I was just chatting with Rey a little bit beforehand, because it’s kind of strange. I think, deep down we all know that this, what I call UFO, ET thing, is a central question, but even after we have disclosure, and I mean folks, don’t forget and don’t let your hanger-on, doubter friends forget that this has been disclosed. The reality of this, New York Times, CBS News, Fox News, as I was just chatting to Rey about, why am I not battling for airtime with Anderson Cooper and Tucker Carlson, to talk to Rey Hernandez, who is the only guy who has a public group with top scientists that researching this stuff?
It’s a rather strange situation that we find ourselves in, but at the same time, we know that some of this stuff we’re going to talk about today is uncomfortable, it’s uncomfortable to the level that we want to kind of push it down and push it aside and think about more stupid CNN 24-hour news cycle stuff.
But I digress, even from the beginning, because what I really want to do is get into this conversation with this remarkable guy, Rey Hernandez, who, by the way is still a full-time practicing attorney, master’s degree from Cornell, working on his PhD from Berkeley in his spare time, just to give you an idea of how smart this guy is. Author of an amazing, super-important book, Beyond UFOs: The Science of Consciousness and Contact with Non-Human Intelligence.
Rey, it is absolutely terrific to have you back on. It’s been a couple of years. You’ve done even so much more since then. Thanks so much for coming back onto Skeptiko and joining me.
Rey Hernandez: Thank you for that wonderful introduction Alex, and I just want to let your audience members know that I turned to you and also to Jeffrey Mishlove to get my training, my chops on consciousness research. Because once I found out that my paranormal experiences that I was having is related to consciousness, I then devoured so many of your interviews over the many years and I just found them as fundamental, as foundational educational pieces for my proper understanding of what was happening to me, as an experiencer.
My experience began in April of 2012, so it’s been a crash course of receiving training, both from whatever the intelligence that I’ve been interacting with, but also from people like yourself and Jeffrey Mishlove and others and Edgar Mitchell as well and Rudy Schild. So it was a tremendous learning that took place since 2012.
Alex Tsakiris: Well, that’s great to hear. You know where I thought we would go is back to that 2012 story, because it is an amazing account. I think it sets the stage for so many launching off points that we could have and it’s just a terrific personal story, from a guy, as you describe, who you were at that time, 2012; you’re an attorney, you’re a busy guy. You’re not into spirituality, you’re not into UFOs, you’re not into any of this stuff, you’re just a guy, a successful guy. Tell that story, what happens.
Rey Hernandez: Yes, as I told you earlier. Several years ago I was a rationalist, a materialist, an atheist, with little understanding and zero interest in all of these topics that are discussed on your show. Then, one evening on March 3rd 2012, our 15-year-old Jack Russell Terrier became paralyzed. She had been very, very ill even before then; she couldn’t run, she couldn’t jump. She was taking Viagra for her heart, diuretics to flush out the excess liquids in her body. So we knew she had limited time to be with us, but she was like our daughter, our first child.
So, that evening, on a Saturday evening, she became totally paralyzed. I then called our vet, who was a good friend of mine, of my wife and I, Dr Phil Cruz. I described the symptoms and he said, “What you’re telling me, it seems like she had a cerebral hemorrhage, stroke, and I’ll open up my office tomorrow to euthanize her.” Because I told him I was very uncomfortable waiting all weekend for her being totally paralyzed in front of us.
So then my wife had just come from a three-day Catholic Church prayer retreat. Three days non-stop, just pure prayer. So when she came home that Saturday night at about 8:00, 8:30, I told her what had happened, and she immediately began to pray. At 11:00 or so, I went to sleep, and she continued praying all night.
Then, in the morning, we both woke up. We checked the dog, the dog was still totally paralyzed. So I went back to bed and she carried the dog downstairs to see if she could go to the bathroom.
So, what happened was, she saw an object in the corner of our living room, it floated four feet off the ground, and it looked like an upside-down ewe. It was roughly about a half a foot width and about a foot and a half in height. She immediately thought it was an angelic spirit or an angel, because she had been praying for an angelic intervention. So she knelt down and started to pray right there, and this object beamed on her these two green lasers.
So then at that point, she began to call me so I could see her angel as well. She wasn’t scared at all because in her mind these were angels. This was an angel.
So, after me being non-responsive, this is Sunday morning at 6:00, I needed my beauty rest, she ran upstairs, and she hauled me out of bed, and she forced to see what this was and she wouldn’t tell me the details.
Then, when we both went down the stairs, she was in front of me down the stairs, maybe two or three steps. Right in the middle of the living room she disappeared, and the dog disappeared. Then immediately, some type of intelligence took over my consciousness. I didn’t care that my wife had gone, the dog had gone. I didn’t have any peripheral vision. All I was able to see was like a little… If you put your rounded finger to your eyes, like you’re looing through a binocular, I would just see this small portion of our living room and they’re floating four feet off the ground, which was what I now call an energy being. It was roughly two feet wide by about a foot in height. It was like a mirage in the desert, translucent like that, waving energy, multi-colored, semi-transparent. Then, basically I squinted at it, I looked at it and then I waved my hand at it and I said, “Oh, BS. This is what you got me up for, for this junk?” Then I turned around and I walked up the stairs and immediately it knocked me out, in my bed.
45 minutes later, when I woke up, I was now fully conscious and I was like, “What the… what?” And I ran down the stairs and then my wife, poof, like reappears, she looks down on the floor and the dog is running around the whole living room and she starts to celebrate. “Hallelujah, hallelujah. The angels cured her. The angels cured her.” So, to me, it was like an atom bomb had exploded in my brain.
I later found out, six months later, that what she had was missing time. Those 45 minutes that she was gone, she had no recollection that they were gone. To her it was like she had gone down the stairs. She had looked down; the dog was running around. She had started to celebrate. But it was 45 minutes because I had looked at the clock. So it was different stories, different perceptions of what we both saw because we both were not there when we initially saw what we saw, and then, bewilderment, it was chaos, it was like mind-blowing. And then, after that, I thought it was paranormal related.
So I spent several months going to the internet, thinking it was paranormal, but then she had also told me in Spanish, “Casi parecía como una nave pequeña.” Which translates, “It almost appeared to be like a little small craft.” So then I said, “Well, UFOs are supposed to be outside, they’re supposed to be huge. This thing can’t be a UFO but let my type in UFO to see what I can learn about it.”
So for the next two months that’s all I did. Six to eight hours a day, researching paranormal UFO and nothing on the internet supported what had happened to my wife and I.
Then two months later, the dog woke my wife up at 3:30 in the morning. My wife then went downstairs and opened the back door, but the dog didn’t want to go to the back door. She was jumping on the front door.
Then after about a minute she looked up and there was a huge, gigantic craft, or a UFO or a UAP. We prefer the term UAP, unidentified aerial phenomenon, because most of the time what people see are not physical “crafts”. It’s all types of light configurations and energy configurations in the sky.
So when I woke up that morning she said, “Oh, my angels came and visited me last night. They came in a beautiful angelic craft that had stained glass windows, just like our church.” And I said, “What? You saw angel? Describe it.” Then she described it and then I asked her to draw it and I said, “What you saw was a UFO.” She goes, “Oh, you wouldn’t understand because you’re an atheist.” So, it was at that point that I said, “Oh my god, this is UFO related.” So then it was heavy-duty UFO on the internet.
And then, about a month and a half later, this is early June, my wife went down to Mexico. She spent an entire month with my daughter, staying with family members, and multiple times, about four times she called down her angels. She’d be praying and wanting to see the angels that interacted with her and each time a big UFO would show up and one time it stopped airport traffic in Vera Cruz Airport, and it’s all documented in the newspapers.
There was even a TV interview on the local TV in Vera Cruz that I was able to pull up and a man that was going to go to her niece’s baptism party, that Sunday, right after that UFO aircraft over Vera Cruz Airport, he was one of those people that was stuck, going around Vera Cruz and he said everybody on the plane was taking videos of the UFO.
Rey Hernandez: The same thing happens with UFO contact experiencers. It’s a world shattering paradigm of their reality and that does affect their family relationship, their jobs, their businesses, their world view. What you have is that your being is being totally deconstructed and reformatted again and because of that you lose your friends, you might lose a spousal relationship, okay? But at the end of it all, you’re on your own hero’s journey, it seems like, for many individuals, because you’re an experiencer, you’ve had these realities, you cannot deny it, but there are numerous consequences associated. But, in terms of your inner-self, your inner-being of who you are, there’s a tremendous positive transformation that results from that.
So it’s a dualistic process here. It’s like you’re being deconstructed but you’re being built up again, and again, it takes time for that building up again process.
Now, in terms of the nature of the phenomenon, my perspective and the perspective of many members of our board, including Edgar and Rudy, is that we are just starting to understand what questions to ask, let alone what answers, because we’re now starting to understand, through this data, and be able to see the contact modalities in a more holistic way, that this is so fricking complex. We’re dealing with multi-dimensional realities. We’re dealing with manipulations of space-time. We’re dealing with so many comparative aspects of these phenomenon that are so similar. We’re dealing with non-human intelligence. We’re dealing with a whole multitude of non-human intelligence.
I remember when Jeffrey Mishlove asked Jacques Vallée, 35 years ago, these complex questions, Jacques Vallée did not directly respond to Mishlove’s questions. What he said was, “You know Jeffrey, what I gather is that we just don’t understand space-time.” Alluding to that these phenomenon involve a manipulation of space-time and we just don’t understand space-time. We don’t understand multiple realities. We don’t understand whatever this intelligence is. We still can’t get a handle on how it interacts with space-time and multi-dimensional realities, the spirit world, other universes, whatever.
These are all issues that we’re just starting to understand that they exist, but we’re totally clueless as to how it’s all put together and it will take several generations before we get to have a better understanding. But at least, what we’re doing in our organization and our research study is that we are identifying these aspects, these questions, when before, no one was asking these questions.
Alex Tsakiris: Oh, it’s so true.
Ray: It’s like look at nuts and bolts ufology. You go to all of these major UFO conferences, they’re still talking about the Tom DeLonge group or that secret space program, that man that just retired from the CIA that was in charge of UFO research, we’re talking about Roswell for the 5,000th time, Rendlesham Forest, “Oh, a new video’s going to come out of this jet fighter.”
So my question is, what has that paradigm given us in 70 years? And my response is, is very limited.
Alex Tsakiris: Well, let me ask that question a different way. Who has controlled the questions? Who’s controlled the creation of that paradigm and the rollout of that? I love the way you put that, and we are totally on the same page Rey, and thank god you were out there on that edge, doing that work.
One other way that I was just alluding to, that I think we can connect this to the real world in a way that’s important, is, and I love the term ‘conspiracy theory’ because it immediately creates this knee-jerk reaction to people, when if you go and look at who created the term ‘conspiracy theory’, who created it into this derogatory term that anyone who questions any kind of authority?
So the misinfo, disinfo aspect of this has to be understood. The history of the UFO movement, of the UFO Conference, of the UFO disclosure is a history of misinformation and disinformation. Some of it’s been outed. So you know when you go to Contact in the Desert, which you’re doing a presentation at and you’re doing a presentation at all of these other high-level UFO Conferences, fantastic, got to get that information out there. But you know there’s misinfo, disinfo stuff going on there.
So how are we supposed to, and this might be the question to wrap it up, because you’ve been so generous of your time, how do we understand that aspect of it and more importantly, how do you navigate that going forward with your research and not allow that to be tainted in that way, driving somebody else’s agenda rather than the truth agenda, which is what I know you’re really all about?
Rey Hernandez: That’s a very difficult question because by nature I’m a very emotional person. I grew up in New York City in a working-class neighbourhood, actually right outside New York City, in West New York, New Jersey. A factory town, a working-class neighbourhood. You’re were always questioning things and you’re very emotional.
So, for me, it’s extremely frustrating because I also utilize those terms. I used to do it publicly, the terms ‘misinformation’ and ‘disinformation’. Now I don’t do it publicly anymore. But I view the field of ufology mainstream materialist ufology is basically, I shouldn’t be saying it but I’ll say it, what the hell, as a cesspool of misinformation and disinformation. What it means is, we need to get some disinfectant via academic research on this phenomenon, which illustrates that this phenomenon is so much more complex than what any of these material rationalists might even speculate it to be.
It’s a long-term agenda, a long-term goal but I think what we need to be able to do is people like yourself, like Jeffrey Mishlove, Dr Bob Davis, Rudy Schild, Edgar that has just passed away and many, many other people that are interested in this relationship, between trying to understand what is the relationship between consciousness, our multi-dimensional reality and contact with non-human intelligence via the contact modalities. We don’t have any answers, we’re totally clueless as to this relationship.
We all hypothesize and speculate that there is that relationship there and that’s what we need to keep on prying for the rest of our lives, so that the next generation will have a much firmer foundation that what I encountered, which is basically, you go to the internet and you get BS and you go to these Ufology Conferences.
When I go to these Ufology Conferences, I don’t listen to these lectures Alex, I basically hang out with the experiencers because they have a kernel of truth of what really is happening, the experiencers. I always say to everyone, I say, “Look, don’t be waiting for disclosure to happen from the top down, because disclosure is happening right now from the bottom up, from the experiencers.”
I think as long as we are able to really continue to educate humanity of this phenomenon and to do comparative research studies of how are NDEs related to OBEs, how are they related to UFO contact experiences, what are the similarities with remote viewing, that people are seeing ghosts and spirits and channelling, how is all of this phenomenon interrelated? If we continue pushing that envelope, I think it’s going to be heading towards a better understanding of our reality, which at this point we’re totally clueless.
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