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Mary Rodwell is a trained therapist who’s 3,000+ cases suggest an ongoing genetic manipulation experiment.

photo by: Skeptiko

Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:00] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris. Now, today I know is going to be a tough show for a lot of people, because even if I tell you that during the more than six years I’ve known returning guest Mary Rodwell, that I’ve always found her to be among the most forthright, open, honest researchers in the UFO and the ET non-human intelligence contact kind of field, that’s not going to amount to much. And even if I told you, which I will, that Mary has always been among the first people to look for a scientific understanding of what she does, for academic verification of what she does, and that that’s why she collaborated with the folks from the FREE Group to compile the first academic survey of contact experience. And even if I told you that she’s world-renowned and recognized as an expert in this field and that she’s authored books, like the one you can see on the screen, The New Human: Awakening to our Cosmic Heritage. I can tell you all that stuff and in a lot of ways it just isn’t going to matter, because unfortunately the result of Mary’s research, the inevitable conclusion that she’s come to is really going to shake you to your core. It shakes me to my core still and I’ve had all of this time to marinade in it and talk with her and interview her multiple times and debate with David Jacobson, all the rest of it that we’ve done, it’s just hard stuff to take. But if anything, that’s what gives me even more respect for this woman and this amazing researcher who has stuck by her guns, stuck by her methodology and year after year has just compiled more and more evidence of this rather remarkable astonishing story that we are really part of a cosmic heritage and part of a genetic engineering, ongoing genetic engineering project that we’re really not in control of. So Mary, it is so great to talk to you again and welcome you back and thanks for joining me.

Mary Rodwell: [00:02:36] Alex it’s always a pleasure. What can I say and thank you for the intro. You’re already preparing people to have their paradigm just slightly shaken and stirred.

 

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Mary Rodwell: [00:02:36] Alex it’s always a pleasure. What can I say and thank you for the intro. You’re already preparing people to have their paradigm just slightly shaken and stirred.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:50] Well, you know, it’s funny because I posted, before this interview, a post to say, “Hey, any upcoming questions for Mary Rodwell?” And then was surprised because the Skeptiko audience is really on it. We cover all of the topics related to consciousness, extended consciousness, NDEs, contact modalities, ET, the whole thing, they’re on it. There’s still all this resistance and I get it, I understand it and I don’t need to defend you, your work stands on its own, but I just kept saying to folks, “I don’t get it.” Every way I look at her work, I cannot poke holes in her work, her results are extraordinary, but her methodology and the person she is just shines through.

So I’m just going to wind up saying the same thing, but people can go and watch your presentations, and the only hard thing about it is just the matter-of-fact way that you deliver the goods. You just stand up there and say, “This is it. This is what I found.”

Mary Rodwell: [00:03:59] Well at the end of the day, if you’re not authentic, quite honestly Alex, people soon see through you and you’ve obviously got a wonderful audience that has a very healthy left brain and for me that’s really important because so have I. I haven’t come from being a nurse and a midwife to being a counselor for 35 years, working in the field both of health and psychology, I know how mainstream works and I also have that side of me that wants to see the evidence because too many people are quite keen to just believe because it sounds good. Well, much as it sounds good, you’ve got to have the data that backs up your hypothesis as much as you can do, given the fact, as you well know with FREE. And what we’ve discovered is that 25% of the contact with non-human intelligence is generally the physical, 75% is non-physical, out of body.

Now, where do you go with that? Because we’re still struggling to understand what consciousness is, that we actually have a part of ourselves that is the essence of who we are that operates within this biological body, that seems to have the ability to leave it in our dreams and some do it consciously and go to other realms. That much we’re understanding, near-death experiences. There are hundreds of books out there now showing that we do exist outside our body. So, I mean, how much evidence do you really want that this is possible?

The bottom line for me, and people say to me, “Where is the evidence that people are having these interactions? Where is the evidence that they don’t come back with a piece of the craft?” You know, that they’ve come back with anything that they feel is tangible, but what is tangible? And what we do know is, that if you’ve had a real experience it affects you on every level, both emotionally and psychologically and spiritually and time and time again, we have found with our research with FREE…

Remember that was 4200 people, conscious recall saying that 85% of those people had psycho-spiritual transformation and what we mean by that is everything in their life they’ve reappraised, the way they live is changed, their spiritual orientation has changed, even what they eat is changed, they’re more holistic in their understanding, they feel more connected to the greater reality, they don’t want to harm anything, they care about the planet. All of these things may be a major shift from their materialistic lives prior to this, where they suddenly lose complete interest in making money and getting the bigger house and the yacht in the back garden and say, “I want to live a more holistic life on a piece of land where I’m growing my own food, where I care about the animals,” all of this kind of thing.

Now, that doesn’t happen because they’ve had a hallucination, but what also goes with that, and I’m putting together a particular presentation because I’m going to Brazil in a month’s time and it’s called Triggers of Consciousness and what it’s showing is the other things that accompany their changes. Suddenly, out of the blue, they may start to do strange artwork, they may start to find themselves doing codes or scripts, they may find themselves coming out with these strange languages for example. It’s amazing the numbers of people that have never picked up a paintbrush, suddenly find that because of their experiences they’re triggered into bringing in this artwork that they say almost materializes in front of them. They have no input in it.

This is the kind of thing I’m seeing, so where is the evidence? The evidence is it changes people in dramatic ways from this experience. That in itself is evidence of a reality. So, you know, you can’t dismiss that.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:08:19] Well, you know what I love about what you just did, and I think a lot of people listening to this show will be able to appreciate it, is you reveal the scientific mind that you always have applied to this, and I think that’s why you were such a natural fit with FREE who just said, “Hey, let’s buckle down and do an academic research survey like is done in every other field.” Like if somebody has pain in the hospital and you want to find out, you just go and ask a bunch of people, that’s how you do it, it’s a scientific medical survey. And you were just such a natural fit because you think in those lines, and I think if we deconstruct it, and we don’t want to take all of the time to do that, what you said, that’s what we would find. You know, you’re saying, “Okay, what is a factor that we could really rely on? What evidence would be most….” All of these things that just start stacking up. “Okay, well we’ll look at changes over time and people’s personalities because we know that personalities are relatively fixed in the ways that we’ve studied them and understood them.” You’re a counselor, you’ve been accredited within the UK and their system and they’ve said, “Yes, this person is qualified.” There in Australia you’ve done the same.

So one of the points I wanted to raise and draw people’s attention to, because they might not know or appreciate it, is exactly this. So I know it’s going a couple of steps back from all of the amazing stuff that you’ve done, but I do feel a need to remind people that you are someone who is professionally minded, academic minded, you’re always thinking of those standards.

The other couple of things I just wanted to touch on, and then I want you to talk more about your methodology, because you have some specific things that you’ve done when you work with people that I think makes your results more reliable and more trustworthy.

But the second point I wanted to make is you are among a number of researchers who have found the same thing. So, you know, some of these things that you’re talking about lately with the art and music advanced skills are truly things that you’ve kind of broken some ground on, but even in those areas we can find other researchers that are kind of finding the same thing.

So one of the things that I think people naturally do, they go, “Oh, this is crazy. Mary Rodwell she’s…” Well, she is one of a number of researchers who have different opinions, but among those different opinions we see a lot of commonality.

And then the last point I hope you touch on, because it is still to this day a hot-button issue with people, is hypnosis and regression. People immediately freaked out go, “Oh my God, forget it, forget everything.” It’s like, that’s not how it works folks. I mean there are still a lot of countries other than the United States that allow professionally done hypnotic regression to be allowed into court and under circumstances debate testimony and it used to be that way in the United States and it’s still used for different purposes. So the whole idea that people have these kinds of triggers like that doesn’t really add up to the true science if you look to it.

So Mary, speak to the issue of methodology and why that’s important to you and some of the things you’ve done to make sure that what you’re finding really does stack up.

Mary Rodwell: [00:11:57] A very good question. The methodology really was similar to what FREE did and remember we had Dr. Clemo, professor of psychology for 40 years, Dr. Bob Davies, a neuroscientist for example, and many other credible researchers in the field all putting in their input to the questions, 600 questions asked in multiple ways to make sure we had a clarity on what people were saying about their experiences, and this was all deliberately conscious recall. We haven’t even gone into hypnosis at this point, we haven’t gone into even the paranormal, “What do you consciously remember about your…?”

Alex Tsakiris: [00:12:40] But you have gone into, and I want people to know. So the FREE academic survey winds up backing up and supporting the work that you’ve done for years and years, and I just want people to know that that research, when we get into this and you start talking about cases, you’re going to blow people away with these cases and with these kids. And what I want them to know is that you are a careful researcher in the way you go about collecting this data and you always have been.

When I did the interview, back and forth, I would love for people to go back and listen to you because it really was so amazing to me, but with David Jacobs who is a PhD in social science and considers his standards to be very… he’s very proud of his standards. You were right there point on point, in terms of how you did it and more than held your own. So I want to remind people of that, that even before the FREE study, you’ve always been about methodology about science.

Mary Rodwell: [00:13:48] It’s been extremely important because when I wrote the book Awakening as a therapeutic resource book for people who had nowhere to go, no one to talk to or didn’t feel safe to, this was a process that will help you through your experiences going on, all of the patterns of experience that many hundreds of people were telling me, the questions they came up with, “How do I know this is real? How do I know I’m not crazy? What do I do about the fear? What about my children?” And because I am a therapist, you know, I’ve been a counselor for 35 years, okay, it’s still a human experience, what do you do with trauma? What do you do with validating how it’s affecting people? What strategies can you use?

So the book was written as a therapist and I did a whole chapter for the therapist saying, “If you want to know my methodology, this is where it’s based on, primary counseling from my training.” So it’s all going back to honoring the experience, honoring the person’s wisdom and their understanding. It’s not about me interpreting, it’s about giving them the way to interpret it, however, they choose to, from their particular lens of reality or whatever it is. But my bottom line was, the whole time that anyone can pick that book up and say that there was nothing that contradicts normal therapeutic approach.

Interestingly I’ve only recently, a hypnotherapist in Germany is translating it into German, The Awakening, and she said, “Every psychologist in the world should read this.”

Now, there’s qualification. What I said was how it can transform your life because that’s exactly what I was seeing. Yes, I saw trauma. Yes, I saw many initially being terrified, but what I also saw was the more that they looked into it, the more they started to understand what was going on, the more that that changed into a whole new understanding of what that meant for them, and it ended up being, for many of them, a completely transformative experience.

I call the the UFO experience the modern-day shamanic wake-up call, because as the shaman you have to transcend your fears to operate in a multi-dimensional world, and this is exactly what I see happening through this contact experience as you go through the fear to another level of awareness if you transcend it.

But getting back to my methodology, it always came from my baseline and my counseling practice, so having done that and of course that’s what happened with FREE, was they qualified all of the patterns that I was seeing, because for me that was the reality. If you hear, time and time again, the same things from people from all over the globe, or cultures or belief systems or professions, from children of six and seven years old to 70 or 80 years old, then you’ve got to say, “Hold on a minute, are they all hallucinating or are they actually experiencing something?” Come one, you know, where does skepticism get to a point where you go, “Hold on a minute, you know what, this is a little bit too much like this is real.”?

So for me that came in, not knowing for sure about anything, I came in with an open mind. I always say that open-mindedness doesn’t equate to gullibility, it means you’re open to what you don’t know, and I don’t know what I don’t know, so the only way to find out is to get enough testimony from credible people. I’m talking about people who had PhDs, lawyers, doctors, nurses, social workers, you know, farmers, housewives and children of seven or eight years old that are describing to me similar patterns of experience and children, of course, don’t watch talk shows. They don’t read books and they’re coming out with complex concepts and you’ve got to say, “Now hold on a minute, where did these come from?” and they are saying, “Well, we learnt them on the craft. This was what we’re being taught. This is where we’re being taken. This is where we’re shown to do things.” Drawing exactly the same types of beings adults draw and explaining the same things, only in more childish language often as not.

So my methodology was simple, I gathered as much data as I could, and I looked at the data and I saw where all of the patterns were and then in the end, it’s like it speaks for itself and that for me is the validity of this. Hundreds of thousands now, you know, I talk about three, three-and-a-half thousand families and children globally, I get emails from all over the world telling me the same things that I’m getting from the English-speaking world.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:45] So that is the number of people you’ve worked with, right?

Mary Rodwell: [00:18:49] Yes. 

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:51] So, I mean, take that in folks. This is one person and her research base at this point is a counselor, a trained counselor, her research base is 3000, 3500 people have had a contact experience. I mean, come on!

So, I’ll tell you what Mary, I kind of have been putting together this little board game, Skeptiko Jeopardy, and we already talked about methodology. For the folks who are just hearing this and aren’t seeing it let me go through the other categories.

New Human, which is the title of your most recent book, a couple of years old now, but still one we should talk about and I want to go there next, but I also have some other topics. Tech versus spiritual, a really interesting topic to me, in terms of understanding the relationship between consciousness technology and spirituality and if there is a line there or how blurred that line is. Star children, which again blows people away, but we just have to follow the data and consider the possibility that there are these children that are especially being seated in some way that is beyond belief.

You’ve dug into the DNA, research I want to say, or you’ve sought scientific understanding to support some of your findings in a very open way and I think that’s awesome. I want to talk about Stranger Things, a Netflix show and the both good and bad of that, I think. I have a couple of other pet topics of mine beyond the the main book, but, you know, how far advanced is some of this technology consciousness and ET related non-human intelligence related. Good versus evil ET, I’ve got to bring that up. Richard Dolan has been all over there and talking about it and I just think there’s something interesting going on there that needs to be talked about. And I want to leave plenty of time to talk about the cases, because the cases just are stunning and they’re going to blow people away.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:51:00] I let off this interview by saying it’s just going to be really challenging for people and we tiptoed our way in, but now people are going to know what I mean. What do you do with these accounts, if you’re listening to this? What do you do with this person who’s in front of you, Mary Rodwell? We’ve just told you her methodology, we’ve told you how she’s sought out, she’s been the one to seek out science, seek out academic understanding of what she’s just encountered just in her work, and yet this is just so, so hard to take.

Let me pick a category here because I do appreciate that this is hard on a number of levels for the average person, but what always kind of surprises me is when people with inside the UFO community seem to really, really struggle with this topic. I think Richard Dolan is fantastic and I haven’t had a chance to have him on the show and I’d like to at some point, and his wife Tracey seems like a delightful person as well. Again, I have not met either one of them.

Tracey Dolan has had numerous contact experiences and she associates them with abduction experiences, very negative experiences. So that’s okay, that’s her experience and it’s not all rainbows and unicorns and happiness, there are a number of people out there that hold to the fact that their experience has been an abduction in every sense of the word. And I’ve referenced in this talk Mary that we had a series of conversations with David Jacobs who was, kind of famously, along with Budd Hopkins, really kind of staked out that ground through research that we have to accept, I accept that they did in a genuine way and they collected data and their data was that these are abductions.

Now, what impresses me about what your work does, but I want to set the table for people and then I want you to deconstruct this because what I hear and I think people hear from this interview is, you seem to be open to all of that, you seem to be open to all of the different things that can happen. MILAB stuff, yeah, people are running into the government, they’re doing all sorts of nasty, nasty things, stranger things with kids and they don’t care and you know Whitley Strieber, yeah, lock him in a Skinner cage and, you know, break them up. They don’t care, they’re out, they’re doing their thing, like intelligence agencies do. So are there other bad aliens, evil aliens? I don’t think you’ve ever said that that isn’t out there as well.

So we want to talk about that, the good versus the bad, but I also want to kind of put the hammer down a little bit on the Richard Dolan. It just really surprised me when I watched this video and it’s a very popular video on YouTube and he kind of said, “Well, maybe it’s kind of an East Coast/West Coast thing. I’m from New York and we kind of see the tougher ETs and these other folks, some of these other people are from the West Coast like Barbara Lamb and they see the love and light.” It’s like, I tell them, “Where are you coming from?” Everyone seems to just be following the data. It’s not like some East Coast/West Coast Blood Crips. It’s it’s just it’s just data and we’ve got to somehow get our arms around the data without, in one way or another, being so quick to kind of brush it aside or explain it away. And that’s what I see happening so often among people in the UFO community.

So two points to address. One is, I don’t think Tracey Dolan is making it up. She’s had traumatic experiences that would be traumatic to anyone and she’s pissed off and she has a right to be pissed off. That’s point number one, but point number two is, the UFO community in general just can’t deal with ET non-human intelligence contact it seems to me.

Mary Rodwell: [00:55:05] It’s a good one and it is an important one and you’re quite right. I have never made a categoric statement ever that they’re either all good or all bad, because that’s not what I’m getting. I can only go on the data and I have got no right to make any assumptions about anything other than the person and their experience and that is what I focus on all along.

I suspect there are some many benevolent ones and there are also very likely self-serving. But first of all, as you know this is very complex. What people need to know is what I discovered is some of the most, most traumatized were those that had MILAB and what we’re talking about here is the military orchestrated pseudo ET abductions, they like to make many of them appear to be ET. And the reason I’m saying that is, and we know that Dr. Steven Greer has said, you know, a high majority of abduction trauma ones are human orchestrated abductions.

There is a lot of evidence out there now. Niara Isley with her her book, Facing the Shadow, Embracing the Light, I did the foreword for that. She explained her MILAB experiences when she was in the military, etc., etc. There are many hundreds of others. Micah Johnson in Las Vegas, she’s another one that’s had MILAB, and what is that? That is when the military want to know what’s going on, they make sure they pick up people they know have had experiences because they want to know what the ETs are doing, what happens on the craft, what kinds of things, what kinds of data, what’s their motivation? They want to make sure they’re as informed as possible. Just like I do if someone’s had an experience, what’s been going on? They’re doing the same thing. They’re interrogating, they’re drugging, they’re traumatizing.

They know full well that most people won’t believe it’s human orchestrated, they know that. What people also may not know is programmed life-forms. We do know from a lot of the research coming out from whistleblowers that they have generated programmed life forms that look ET. They’re not ET, they’re programmed by the military, there are Grays that are programmed, there are reptilians that are programmed and I’ve discovered recently that some of the mantis ones… I mean one lady that I worked with was taken underground and she was shown this huge terrifying picture of a mantis and she kept being told, “They are evil. They are evil. They are evil.” This was during a regression. Okay? You can believe that or not.

So we do know there’s a program to make those that are picked up that way terrified of non-human intelligences. So that is part of the problem, is what is human orchestrated, what is trauma via non-human intelligences? And that can sometimes be very blurred because of how people are treated.

When someone comes to me though, that’s had experiences, they may be traumatized, but what they may be fearful of isn’t necessarily what happened. They may just be fearful because they didn’t know what happened and they anticipated something terrible happened to them. So why hypnosis is so useful is that gives them a window into understanding what actually happened rather than what they believed happened because it’s so out of their paradigm. What I’ve discovered for a majority of those is once they’ve discovered the reality of their experience. It may not be anything like they imagined.

We had the statistics that said 50% of those surveyed had healing experiences on board craft. So I’ve taken many of my clients, they’ve seen themselves on a table, they’ve seen genetic material taken and they’ve also been told this is healing for X, Y and Z and we know people have been cured of all sorts of things.

So then is where’s the consent? And because they’re in an altered state and because they’re tapping into their subconscious superconscious, there is an awful lot of information available to them that’s not when they’re conscious. So I’m saying to them, “So is this part of what you would see your consented mandate?” and they have often, most often said, “Yes, it’s my contract with them,” because they said, “I’m one of them.” Because some will realize that the beings they’re interacting with, they may have actually, in a previous existence actually been one of the beings that they’re interacting with now.

Now, they come out of it, they may be completely confused, they may find it all really too hard to cope with and they’ll say, “What do you think?” I said, “It’s not what I think. Does that resonate with you on some level?” and they usually say, “Yes, it does.” Well now I said, “It’s up to you. It’s up to you to take that information, decide whether it makes sense to you.”

And the other thing that I say to them, when they say, “Oh, I’ve been told the Grays are bad or I’ve been told this,” I’m saying, “Forget what you’ve been told, that’s their experience. What do you feel from this intelligence? What is the sense you get?” and it can be completely different. So some have, “I’m terrified. I don’t like this one. I think they’re bad.” That’s their experience. It’s valid as much as the one that says, “Well, I think they’ve got a sense of humor,” or whatever.

But remember what people don’t know is that the Grays in this lump Grays, I was told by one lady that she knew of 165 species of Gray. So, do you lump them all together? It’s like taking one human being off the planet and saying that’s all humans. What a load of nonsense. So there’s so much we don’t know but we can only go on our own experience and our own understanding of that particular experience. How we choose to interpret it is up to that person. It’s not up to me, you or anyone else. It’s their experience and only they can decide how to interpret it.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:01:25] Okay. So you’ve been super generous with your time and you just deliver the goods. It’s so awesome talking to you. Every topic, you just can nail it.

There’s one more topic. I’m going to pick this one because it’s one of the last ones we haven’t talked and then I’ll let you get on with the rest of your day. This is a topic that keeps coming up for me and I keep bringing it up to people and I’m never quite satisfied with the answer and that is the relationship that I keep bumping into between the technological advances in consciousness, the relationship between consciousness and technology versus true spirituality. I hate to put that in those terms, but I’ll give you an idea of what what I’m talking about.

Clearly non-human intelligence contact experiences suggest a technology to consciousness that they, if you’ll allow that, have mastered in a way that we have. So whether it’s telepathic communication, screened memories, projected memories good or bad. These are all things that come up again and again and come up in a technology way, in the sense that we can do that, we have an iPhone app to do that.

I jump over to the other side and I look at the near-death experience science and I look at what yogis say about the spirituality of the larger hole and the message is different. The message isn’t motivated towards fixing the planet, as important as that might be. They say things like, “World? What world?” They say, “In this world, but not of this world.” They say, “Find the ocean of love and jump into it. Find the godhead,” and these are from all of these different traditions and these are from people who have NDE experiences who come back and do care about other people and care about the planet but not in a way that they want to fix the planet, in a way that just says, “Well, you know, I had a life review and none of this stuff is really that important. We’re all just kind of in the middle ground.”

So I’m not asking you to endorse or any kind of spiritual belief, what I’m wondering is, it almost seems like there are two different ladders here. One that’s leaned up against one wall and one that’s leaned up against another and the one ladder that’s leaned up against the technology and materialistic wall, it’s a wall that we all have to climb because we all live in a world where we have certain needs and we have to get those needs met. But there seems to be another wall that is is not even that concerned with that, not concerned with these kinds of worldly things. And I’m just wondering if you have any opinion on this consciousness technology versus spirituality. The way I always put the question to people is, does ET have an NDE life review? Are they saying, “Oh gee, I had a pretty good life, but I could have done that better, and you know just have to truly be one with the godhead, I probably should have done this or that”?

Mary Rodwell: [01:04:40] It is at the coal for me of the mystery because people may not know that, although I do hypnosis for those having encounters, I also do hypnosis to take people into past lives. And for me what this does is help me understand my present journey, my present adventure on this planet.

So to with, if I have taken someone from their past life through the death sequence, and they’re seeing themselves as a spirit just like the NDE, where they’re seeing themselves as a spirit and whatever and I’ll say to them, “What did you learn in that life?” They may say well I starved to death, I learned about limits,” or “I learned about compassion,” or whatever. So they can give you what they’ve learned.

The other thing and this is leading into where I think this is all about, is the fact that from that, then they’ll say, “Now I chose to come into human form. I chose my parents, my siblings. I chose the journey. I chose my challenges because I wanted to explore physicality in this particular time span and experience and grow from that experience.”

So, for me that doesn’t contradict any with what the yogis are saying is that we’re spirit, we’re consciousness, we’re connected to all consciousness and we all perhaps are connected to whatever that source of consciousness is, whatever name you want to give that. I try not to use names because everyone has a different idea of what that collective consciousness is. So for me that makes absolute sense.

You know, you talked to people who’ve done many of the life between lives. Dr. Newton actually in Journey of Souls did hundreds of these regressions where they found about the soul and the spiritual [unclear 01:06:30].

So, what it then says to me is we’ve come into this human journey at this time because we want to experience from a material level, which means everything that goes with a material level, including technology as part of the journey to growth, because we’ve come here for, I call it a spiritual adventure. We want to challenge ourselves as a consciousness to experience certain things and everybody has their own journey with that. Which makes a lot of sense to me is why some choose more challenging physical journeys and some more emotional or spiritual because we’re all different consciousness wanting to explore greater than ourselves.

So that’s how I see it. So, in fact when people say, “Where’s the free will?” The free will is in your attitude to it. Do you want to see it as a victim or do you want to see it as a way of enabling you to expand, in terms of your understanding? So when I approach anything, I get many, many people that really are interested in the spiritual journey. “Why am I here? What’s my mission?” and I get this all the time.

So part of my work is helping them to a place where they can explore that, and they may go into a past life or they may suddenly find themselves on another planet or whatever. They may find themselves in a parallel universe, a different timeline. I go anywhere, it doesn’t matter to me because as long as it gives them more of a sense of them, themselves and their spiritual journey, they can experience anything. They’ve seen themselves as beings, mantis beings, gray beings, they’ve seen themselves as crystalline beings, energy beings, light beings. They’ve seen themselves in all of these different roles as creator beings.

Do you see where I go is more or less there are no limits to that because there are no limits to consciousness. So for me it’s about, “Okay, so where are you at? Are you still doing ABC here and adding up or are you doing calculus or are you actually doing your degree?” So, in terms of awareness, I as a counselor am looking at the level that person finds the most helpful to them in their journey and for some it will be, “I want to deal with the pollution of the planet. I want to I want to make a difference there.” Others will say, “I’m here just to be, just to experience.” It’s all cool because as long as they’re happy with how they understand themselves, that’s all that matters.

So some of us want to stay and work with the 3D reality, others want to actually move to another level of understanding, and it doesn’t really matter how we do it, through a near-death experience, and out-of-body experience, shamanic experience, healing experience. We all have different ways of reaching that level of consciousness that we seek as a soul. So, I don’t know if that’s answered your question

Alex Tsakiris: [01:09:27] It does and I’m really glad you brought up the counseling part because I don’t hear you talk about that very much. Of course, that’s the first thing people focus on because that’s how people like to pigeonhole people. “Oh, she’s just selling books.” “Oh, she’s just trying to do regressions.” That’s not been my experience, my experience has been the opposite. You never lead with that, I’m sure you have more of that work than probably it’s more of a burden than anything else.

I’m so glad that you brought that up. I do want people to check out this book and your other books. There are tons of extensive free YouTube presentations that you’ve given that are up there for free that people can find, and I want you in minute to talk about your website.

But I do want to emphasize this counseling thing because I think it’s going to be so meaningful and some people right now who are listening to this show are going to be so thankful that there’s someone like you out there. Who is open, who is a trained professional, who they can go and confide in and maybe find some answers to some questions that they don’t even dare talk to their spouse about or talk to their family about and yet with you Mary, they’re going to find somebody who’s been there, done that. There isn’t going to be the judgment because you’ve done it so many times that it’s okay. It’s okay to contact Mary and if she has the time to talk to you, it could really be a healing experience for, I think a lot of people, and I know you’ve experienced that over and over again, and maybe you want to just speak to that a little bit more.

Mary Rodwell: [01:11:15] Well, that’s the core of everything. I came in because somebody came to me saying, “There are no support groups Mary, for this. They just think you’re crazy.” So people contact me with that, “Am I crazy or is this valid and if it’s valid, what do I do with it?”

So I’m there to be a sounding board, I’m there to offer information that may help them validate it but more than anything, to give them the openness and permission to explore whatever it is that’s coming up and they’ve said, “I’ve never been able to talk about this to anyone.” They may have spent their life with this dual reality and never once been able to say it to anyone because they’re afraid of judgment or afraid that people will think that they’re crazy or whatever.

So that is my main focus, is helping people open their own door to that broader reality or that multidimensionality, to feel normal and know that they’re not crazy, but they’re actually more normal than most people, because they’re actually realizing they’re multi-dimensional rather than just a 3D solid meatball. For me that is why I do what I’m doing, why I’m doing this interview, why I write books. It’s about the information and it’s about the fact that it gives people a way in to honoring what everyone of us experiences, which is intuition, which is the sensing and knowing, awareness that we are not just the physical body and to have almost like validation that they are okay with that and being okay means that they can then expand without being scared or fearful that there’s something wrong.  

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