Dr. Mario Beauregard, Frontier Science Wake Up Call |538|


Dr. Mario Beauregard is a post-materialist neuroscientist who understands the battle.



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Click here for Mario Beauregard’s website

Book: Expanding Reality: The Emergence of Postmaterialist Science

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Alex Tsakiris: On this episode of skeptiko. The science battle. And a clip about a real battle.

[00:00:09] Clip: What the hell are you waiting, sir, waiting for watch private dos. How the hell is private docs

[00:00:22] Alex Tsakiris: that’s from the movie Hacksaw Ridge. The true story of a warrior, in this episode, we probably call him a light warrior. We’ll explain what that means in a little bit, but he’s the guy who in world war II, wouldn’t shoot a gun, . . But as this thing that I just played shows he had gained so much respect from his fellow warriors. That they wouldn’t go into battle until he finished. Praying.

I’m like I mentioned real story. This guy, private dos was real person. Conscientious objector. Went into one of the most horrific battles in world war II. Bullets flying all over his head. Pulls at least. 75 soldiers out of the battle to safety, risking his own life. Every time going back and back and back to save more lives.

Yeah. That’s a warrior.

But you might be asking what saw this warrior stuff. I mean, we’re just talking about science here, right?

[00:01:22] Mario Beauregard: They would try to. , tell her, lay people, you see he’s not a real scientist is more of a, sort of a mystic , but it’s true. I became a neuroscientist based on a few, spiritual experiences that happened in my life.

[00:01:36] Alex Tsakiris: that’s Dr. Mario Beauregard. And if you’ve been around skeptical for a long, long time, you’ll remember that I interviewed him 10 years ago. about his book, the spiritual brain and neuroscientists case for the existence of the soul. Keep in mind this guy’s not a religious guy. He’s just following the data.

So now Dr. Belgard has a new book and you’ll hear about it in this interview with him. But you also hear that. Although he’s been engaged in the battle for a while. He’s a warrior that senses that the battle is changing.

[00:02:08] Mario Beauregard: It’s very hard to be able to unite because there are many differences , even post materialist scientists include, people we’re not spiritual at all.

[00:02:18] Mario Beauregard: a lot of these scientists They don’t want to have any problems and they don’t want to go out and to face. Uh, they are not warriors, light warriors.

They are not willing to do that. but in my case, it’s very different. I’m all for it. I’m a warrior I’m used to it because I’ve been trained like this. . I had to fight for my survival. And so, it’s okay for me

[00:02:41] Mario Beauregard: We’re fighting with more than a material at the Eastern or so-called skeptics in science, the fight is much bigger. Now. it’s dark versus light it’s darkness, and it’s a spiritual war

[00:02:54] Mario Beauregard: like you, I’m not religious at all. My parents wanted me to become a priest , , but, uh, that was, what’s not for me.

 I have a sense of mission. So I do do what I have to do. I don’t care if people like me or hate me, , but you know what, by doing what I’ve done, I made a lot of friends all over the planet.

the ultimate version of materialism in, at ism is transhumanism. And I’m in contact with people all over the planet and friends, , and, , the same processes going on in many, many countries.

And yes, a lot of people. We’re not, , realizing what was going on now they’re switching or changing. I can see that everywhere. , so I’m very optimistic, but it will be rough bumpy for a while, but, uh, I think they are cooked on the other side

[00:03:47] Clip: I can’t stay here while all them go fight for me. What’d you figure this wars is going to fit in with your ideas I don’t know how I’m going to live for myself. If I don’t stay true to what I believe

[00:04:02] Alex Tsakiris: And so the battle continues. No pig.

We were made for this. We were made for this time, this place. This battle. Stick around for my interview with Dr. Mario Beauregard. If you like it, tell somebody.

[00:04:24] Alex Tsakiris: Welcome to skeptical where we explore contrast, heal science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Securus. And today we welcome actually. Welcome back. Dr. Mario Beauregard is skeptical if you’ve been with skeptical for a while, you might remember 10 years ago.

It’s really been that long when we interviewed Maria about his excellent book, brain wars. , but in case your memory, doesn’t stretch back that far. Let me just kind of remind you, Dr. Mario Beauregard is a neuroscientist, multiple fellowships, dozens and dozens of peer review papers. Publications all over the place. I’m even pulling up a picture of him hanging out with the Dalai Lama. He’s done all these other really cool projects all around this idea that maybe we should look beyond materialism, and that would lead us to his latest book, expanding reality, the emergence of post materialist science.

So Mario, welcome back to skeptical. Thanks so much for joining me.

[00:05:36] Mario Beauregard: Thanks for having me

[00:05:38] Alex Tsakiris: well. Great. So tell us a little bit about, , what you’ve been up to. You’ve been hanging around with those wonderful folks at the university of Arizona and their consciousness, paradigm busting exploits or endeavors lately, but what’s going on in your world in general.

Catch us up before we start talking about.

[00:05:59] Mario Beauregard: Well, during the last few years, , I I’ve been involved in the, , the development of what we could call the post materials paradigm. So, , we first met that the university of Arizona in 2013. So it was after, , brain wars. And, , so we met with, , Gary Schwartz and I from the university of Arizona and, uh, Lisa Miller, a research psychologist at Columbia university.

We organized the meeting and, uh, people from various, uh, fields of physics, mathematics, biology, medicine, psychology. We, we gather with these people and lots of these people were very well known. Like, uh, Charles starts, for instance, Dean Raden, uh, Ruper, Chell. Great. Larry Dossey and so on. And so. , all Mavericks in their own shields, all black sheets, if you will.

, the meeting lasted for a few days and we examine all the evidence, the empirical evidence in various fields of research, uh, challenging directly the old materials. And, uh, following that a few months after that, uh, I drafted what became to be known as the manifesto for a post materialist science.

And, uh, we all worked together on the multiple drafts and it was published, uh, four or five months after the meeting that was held, uh, in March of 2000. Uh, I think 14 and the manifesto was published three, four months later. And after that were there, there were a lot of reactions, uh, From the materialist, of course, but also from other people.

And we, we asked people were, uh, in line with this manifesto to, to sign it, to endorse it. And we received hundreds of signatures and many of these people, uh, we signed a manifesto. They were very well known, uh, researchers, but many of them were retired, so it was not too dangerous to, for them to sign it.

And then it was translated in the various languages around the world. And. Three years after that, we met again in Tucson, Arizona, and then we created an academy, the academy for the development of the post, both materialist sciences, and w with pretty much the same, uh, founders, the same people.

so now it’s growing and, , we have published a few books, collective books, uh, about the, uh, the primacy of consciousness and also the new, , the emerging post materials, paradigm, uh, expanding reality. It’s about all of these, uh, developments, but it’s for laypeople. It’s not for scientists themselves, but, um, it’s very simple to, uh, to read, but it’s, it’s a summary of all the empirical evidence, uh, showing us that now we need , , to switch to a new paradigm that we call post materials.

But post materials doesn’t mean that. It means that we are, , at a certain point from a historical perspective and that we need now, , to undergo transition tower something different. But this emerging paradigm is, very much complimentary with what was said for centuries, by all the great spiritual traditions of the world.

, so it’s like if science is now the new science of consciousness is converging with, , spirituality in a certain sense.

[00:09:50] Alex Tsakiris: Well, I think that’s , that’s fascinating. I’ve been on this trail with you for a while in my own way, and I think it’s all fine and good. And we’re going to kind of get past all the fine and good for a minute.

But for, I first wanted to touch on this book. I think a lot of people will find it. A lot of people listening to this show will find expanding reality, the emergence of a post materialist science, a relative quick read, you know, a lot of stuff that we’ve kind of heard before, but it’s nicely organized.

I’ll tell you, Marie, the one thing that really caught my attention and kind of surprised me was your personal spiritually transformative experience. And in particular, how you feel it’s directly guided your work in this area. I just, I got to hear more about

[00:10:41] Mario Beauregard: that. Well, uh, before that, I, I didn’t want to talk about this because I thought that it was in the perception of people and especially my enemies, like the, the materialists, the ethicist, uh, contaminating science that they would use this information to attack.

And, , they would try to. Uh, tell her, you know, lay people, you see that he’s got, he’s a, he’s something he’s not a real scientist is more of a, sort of a mystic or, but it’s true. It’s true that I became a neuroscientist based on a few, uh, or spiritual experiences that happened in my life. That’s, uh, I’m not alone because, , at the academy, we, um, we’re now we’re now creating a new book and, uh, that will be published probably I think by the end of next year.

And it’s a collection of essays by 50 different scientists. And you can see when you read the, these I came, which is very interesting because a lot of scientists decided to become signed. Because of spiritual experiences, but it was never told before, because it was taboo. We couldn’t say that openly now.

I don’t care. I’m almost 60 years old. And, , a vast portion of my career is behind me. And, uh, I don’t care anymore. I don’t care what people may think. But yes, the first experience happened when I was eight years old. My parents were farmers here in the province of Quebec in Canada. And, uh, we, we had the fields for the cows.

We had a small forest and, uh, during, uh, the summer break, I went into the, the small forest. I like to think and play and encounter all sorts of animals. And it was quite hot. And I, after, uh, I walked for about an hour and then I was, uh, I became. And I decided to, to sit on a big gray rock and, um, why I was sitting on the big gray rock.

I looked at all the trees that were surrounding me and I could see also the field, um, but which was a far away and the cows and all of a sudden, uh, everything became, uh, more vibrant. I knew that threes were living alive, but I, I entered into a sort of, uh, enlarge state of consciousness. And I realized that all the, uh, the, the trees, the grass and E even the rock itself were all part of a single whole, uh, uh, unified beam.

And I, me a small Mario was part of this, a unified field. This. Being. And so to me, I was, my parents were Roman Catholic and, uh, I, so I taught that I had encountered God. But what was interesting in this experience is that after that, after this insight, it’s like if I download information about my life plan, I, I received information showing that I was supposed to become a later on because I was only eight by eight by then, but I would become a neuroscientist and my task would be to unite with other scientists around the world to, to demonstrate that the brain does not create the human essence, mind consciousness, spirit, it’s it acts as an interface.

So that was the starting point. And then. I became very sick 12 years, uh, beginning of my twenties. And I’ve had the near-death experience. And during the, the name of deaf experience, uh, I’ve received more information about the, the kind of research program I would undergo a few years later. And so ma many, many times journalists ask me, uh, why did you do the study?

You did, uh, with regard to spirituality and, you know, contemplative nones, and in the scanners, things like that near death experience, that was the, these two experiences were the, uh, the main reason I have to admit.

[00:15:14] Alex Tsakiris: That’s really great. And I’m glad you shared that because one of the interesting things about your work that you have to, you don’t really have to dig that far to get it, but is this spiritual angle, you know, you wrote a book, the spiritual brain you’ve done. Like I said, Sought out the Dalai Lama to connect with spiritual people.

You talk about spiritually transformative experiences. And even that, you know, is aligned that some folks in this frontier science post materialist kind of thing, it’s a line that they don’t want to cross. And it’s understandable too. It’s particularly understandable for people who haven’t had that , direct experience.

You know, I was spoken with Dean Raden a couple of times I don’t get the sense. And I’ve asked him that he’s had that kind of direct spiritual experience. So he doesn’t report on that in a way it’s even, it’s, it’s, it’s wonderful that we can have people who can intellectually get there as well as people who can experientially get there and then say, now let me see if my science can, can help me get there as well.

So what do you make of. On a practical level. Cause you’re, you are a guy who has this then spiritual insight, the spiritual knowing that is so, so profound, but you’ve also had to walk a careful path down the, the science for us cause I got a lot of thoughts on that. A lot of concerns that may be, we’re not being aggressive enough and really kind of calling bullshit on what’s happened.

[00:16:57] Mario Beauregard: Yes. Well, I, I’ve not been balanced. I’ve not been well. , because, uh, after these experiences, I knew exactly what I had to do and I wanted to do, uh, so when I, I received my PhD at the university of Montreal, uh, I had to do, uh, a postdoctoral fellowship that are with works, that I, so I checked the entirety of neuroscience.

I back them. Uh, it was in the, you know, in the beginning of the nineties, nobody was doing the kind of research I want to do. So I knew that I had to do something else. Uh, I had to wait for a few years, so I decided to become an expert in brain imaging because brain imaging was emerging. And I knew that it would be a useful technology to study these experiences and to see what’s going on in the brain.

And, uh, uh, but I also met with famous neuroscientists were still alive. And I told them about my dream, what I wanted to do. And they told me don’t do this because you’re going to kill yourself. If it’s a suicide, you will be destroyed. And, uh, I asked them why, why? Because, uh, it’s Dan that I discovered that, uh, neuroscience is supposed to be objective, but, uh, as a science, but science is not objective because it’s conducted by human beings and you’ve being beings at all.

They’re the head. Uh, they have their own belief systems, the emotions, uh, motivations it, an agendas and so on and so forth. And then I discovered that neuroscience was like, uh, uh, you know, early. Okay. And there was a Vatican, there was a Pope and there were a few central dogmas that you have to respect.

And one of these documents was the, the ID that the brain produced the mind as a, for instance, the liver secrete certain enzymes, stuff like that. And, uh, so I, I start right then I started to fight with these, uh, famous people from the Montreal neurological Institute. And, uh, they were, I realized that they were playing a game, uh, but the system was built upon the certain number of these assumptions.

And, and they, they made me realize, they told me if you’re not wise, then if you don’t respect, you don’t play the game correctly. You will be expelled that that’s what it’s going to happen to. And this is exactly what happened 17 years after. At the university of Montreal. So I went to United States to do a post-doctoral fellowship at the university of Texas in Houston for a few years.

And then I came back at McGill university at munch, the famous Montreal neurological Institute that was created at the end of the twenties by Wilder, Penfield, famous neuroscience. One of the, uh, Korean pioneers of the neuroscience and Penfield started as a mainstream, uh, scientists as a, an MTSS. Uh, and, uh, at the end of the more you was progressing in his career, the more he started to have doubts about the central dogma of neuroscience.

And at the end of his life, he was, he had become a dualist he, and you wrote a little book about. Uh, you was quite holed by Dan and his colleagues that I met that were very old. They all thought that he has lost, you know, is that it’s come past that. Uh, he lost it because he was a bit demented, but, you know, he w he was a seen very clearly.

And, uh, but you know, all these guys, what the ad told me was right. And I experienced it myself because after, uh, Miguel and university, I w uh, university of Montreal hired me to become a researcher there. And we were starting the new brain imaging center. And so I was involved in that and everything went well for a number of years when I was doing the, uh, the classical studies that they were expecting me to do, and the partnership with big pharma and things like that, the, the, they enjoyed that.

And there’s lot of money involved in. And, uh, but that’s not what I wanted to do. So I started to do studies that were considered to be, uh, that didn’t fit within the, the system. Uh, because I, for instance, I, uh, convinced, uh, karma nuns were living in the convent and they were contemplative. So they were not supposed to leave the convent, but after several months of discussion, I, I managed to convince them to leave the continent and to lay inside a scanner, functional magnetic resonance, imaging scanner, and, uh, to try to enter into a spiritual state and so on and so forth.

And I’ve done several studies like that. And, uh, then I started to have problems with the direction of the, uh, the medical school at the university of Montreal, because, and they started to, uh, Try to intimidate me because the, the, they told me that, um, they could play with my life professionally, with my salary, with, uh, and, uh, if I didn’t listen to what they were telling me, uh, bad things would happen to me.

And so I’ve been Waleed like that for years. I never talked about this openly. That’s the first time I do that. And I don’t care if they come back and because I have too many proof evidence of that, and behind closed doors, they took, they told me, you know, the, the leaders of the medical school, you cannot do this within the walls of university of Montreal, this type of studies.

We don’t want that. We want you to do partnership with big pharma and the classical studies using all the various tools. I’ve never of a science and. And I said, Nope, every time they were doing that once a year, reviewing what I had done. So they refuse to give me me my tenure, even though I was, I was bringing them visibility over the planet.

I was invited to meet with the Dalai Lama. I was invited to speak at the United nations in New York, uh, the department concerning, uh, science and evolution of society and so on and so forth. I was bringing them a lot of visibility, but not the kind of visibility the, uh, expected from me. They didn’t want that because, and I, I realized that they were there to maintain, uh, an ideology in place.

The, they were not interested in truth. They were not, no, they were interested in the, you know, they had a system and they wanted to protect the system. You know, so I was a black sheep. I was a Maverick and people start to say that about me, uh, all over the planet, but they, but since I was a nice person, the, uh, it wasn’t going well over planets.

I received offers from various universities around the world, in the United States and Brazil and people were telling me, uh, w we, uh, we want you to create something new. And, um, so, but I was expelled in 2013 from university of Montreal, my, my contract, my research contract, even though I had grants, uh, it was not renewed.

And they D they were not able to give me the, the reasons, the official reasons, because of course I would have hire a lawyer and I would have sued them, but, but some people spoke to me, people were members of the committees. We decided. Uh, what will would that been with me? And some people have told me, so I know, and the reasons were purely idea of they, you know?

Yeah. I was, uh, you know, I was a black sheep pre-made and they didn’t want that. So a few weeks after that, Gary Schwartz was, I D another controversial researcher, but at a university of Arizona, uh, a few years before that, uh, at the university of Arizona, they created the first, uh, research center on consciousness and, uh, several well-known scientists and philosophers of science, uh, like David Chalmers, uh, they were all involved in the creation.

Amrah others. They were involved in the creation of the center. And Gary Schwartz didn’t know me personally, but this it’s so funny because you see. There was an inner voice that told me to contact you. So you found my email address. You had seen my books, so you knew I was. Uh, but, and, and then when I saw him online, um, he told me, uh, is there something wrong or is there something I could do for you?

Because I’m a pushed to, I don’t know. Uh, I feel that I asked you a call, you went to ask you what’s going on. And so I explained to him what just happened to, he said, uh, at the university of Arizona, we would be proud to have somebody like you. We wouldn’t see you like a black sheep, but to the contrary, because there’s, open-minded more open-minded for virus reasons because of the people that were there.

And so it was a mixed bag. You know, you, you had also the, uh, the, uh, uh, test material, But yeah, they’re also more open-minded people. So that’s how I became affiliated with the university of Arizona. It’s another interesting story. And that’s how, um, after, uh, having talked to, uh, Gary and I, uh, I proposed, you know, to lounge this, uh, new, most post materials movement.

And so he helped me and we organized the first meeting and Dan, the manifesto, then the academy and so on and so forth. So right now I’m doing theoretical work about, uh, a new model of migraine, uh, relationship, including, uh, spirituality, spiritual experiences. Now that’s, I think that’s a, it’s a new to me.

It’s this is the real new science of mind and conscious. No, not the old stuff of Gandel and Edelman and her and all these old guys, uh, you know, they, they, um, yeah, so, so, so I’m very much involved in this, uh, transition, towered, something new and, uh, there’s progress because some, uh, people like, for instance, Christof, Koch was working with, um, you know, uh, Francis Crick for several years.

He was, uh, an opened, uh, materialists at ESA, like, like his former boss. And, uh, now is changes, uh, discourse, not now we stuck east, you know, he’s coming now. It was very slowly to our camp because he’s recognizing that perhaps, perhaps we won’t be able to use materialists models to explain or to reuse.

Consciousness or it’s, uh, a primary principle, but, uh, he’s still trying to, uh, like, like David also. And, uh, but these guys are, uh, to me that they like chicken. They don’t, uh, they’re not as enough gracious to say openly, you know, tell me what you think really. Um, because they are, you know, they have things to protect the, uh, cook director.

He’s the director of a research center and, or an Institute and so on and so forth. And in my case, I never, I never cared about all those things. And I destroyed several relationships and I lost many opportunities because of that, because I, uh, I was, uh, I didn’t care. You know, I just cared about what I felt deep within in my sense of mission, what I had to accomplish.

I knew, and I knew it would be a about. But, uh, you know, I decided to go for it because, uh, it’s who I am. So

[00:30:28] Alex Tsakiris: I think that’s a really, really important story. And I’m glad you shared all that. I’m glad you shared that about Gary Schwartz, because a lot of times he doesn’t get credit for standing and holding that space, you know, so he’s done some things and people can kind of laugh, you know, Geraldo and all the rest of that stuff.

But now he has marched forward and held that space. And he’s brilliant, right? I mean, Dal, Harvard, all that maximum credentials. But the other thing that you said that I think is, is, is the next level stuff that we got to get to, if we’re really going to support gladiators of the law. Which you are Mario, you are a gladiator of the light.

You are not interested in compromise where in the scientific sense, right. A scientist isn’t interested in stupid ideas and compromising and saying, well, you know, everybody has a point of view. And if you kind of ran the numbers this way, no, that’s our, that’s the beauty of science is it allows us to play this game that we really can measure things, because we know we can’t really measure things, but if we were going to measure things, this is the result that we have in this is where we get.

So what are the things I want to do? In this interview is kind of pull you further into and get your thoughts on how deep this thing goes, how deep this battle. And it really is, and this is again going to turn people off, but at some level, this is a deeper spiritual battle that we are somehow engaged in.

And I say that not knowing what that means. I’m not a Christian, I’m not at all a religious person, but it’s kind of hard to deny that there’s some elements to this that do look like a battle. Let me play you a clip because in your book, in this latest new book that people really need to check out, as well as your other books, expanding reality, one of the things you touch on because you have to, because it’s such an important part of this whole story, it’s such an important part of reclaiming.

Our history is the remote viewing project Stargate at Sri. But it goes very deep and in some ways it goes much darker than we’re willing to sometimes go to let me play this clip. It’s a couple minutes long and then let’s talk about it.

I’ve interviewed coming up in a minute, the creator of the fantastic movie, third eyes, spies, a true story

[00:33:02] Mario Beauregard: of CIA psychic

[00:33:04] Alex Tsakiris: spying,

Okay. I don’t really have to play that clip and you can go listen to that show if you want. But also I don’t have to play that clip cause I kinda teed up and summarize it to Mario. Here.

[00:33:16] Alex Tsakiris: So, let me stop it there. My point is we have to fully embrace this history. We have to pull it apart. And I think frontier scientists, like you are. And we know the frontier scientists, because they don’t only have arrows in the front from the people they’re pushing against and they have arrows in the back too.

Cause that’s the guy who’s always out front. He’s got arrows in his back as well as the front. This is our history. So part of this history. Fuck. Yes, we did this post materialist bullshit. So the people at Montreal, the playing some kind of game, because the real players at McGill locked in the MK ultra lab, they were way past materialism.

They were, how do we operationalize this? How do we mind control people? How do we do telepathy? How do we do remote viewing? They weren’t sitting around wringing their hands. G is remote viewing true or is sensory deprivation true? Is disassociative identity in split person? Is that true? They were not questioning that they were operationalizing it.

That is our history. And so that’s, I guess, point number one and point number two, that comes along with it is a bunch of other weird stuff that we don’t talk about because it’s not comfortable to talk about, but you know, that would include all the UFO stuff and all that. So let’s just start with the first part of embracing our history, fully engaging with it in number two, calling bullshit on this idea that the academy is only against this because it’s all it’s dogma and it’s one funeral at a time.

Bullshit. There is some kind of directive behind this that says we do not want to go in this direction. We do not want people thinking that there’s, that there are these expanded divine beings that are somehow connected to something much more. We want them to stay limited controlled biological robot because that’s fits more with our agenda and I’m opinionating there, but I want to lay it out there and get your opinion.

[00:35:22] Mario Beauregard: Well, yes, I agree with you. And so, uh, it’s part of, uh, a social engineering program clearly. And, uh, you know, in the video, uh, we talked about, uh, Sydney got lead. Well, yeah, he had a double life, so he was a well known neuroscientist, a pharmacologist, uh, worked with, uh, big pharma was one of the pioneers actually, but he had the.

You know, he was doing a, in secret all those experiments. And he was doing death with the people at Montreal neurological Institute at the Allan Memorial, the psychiatric Institute. So the O the, the, the guys I was talking to when I was a young, aspiring neuroscientist, these are the people, the same people,

[00:36:11] Alex Tsakiris: Cameron, you want to talk about Cameron?

[00:36:13] Mario Beauregard: I never met him. Uh, Cameron, no, but I met all the other ones. And so they were, you know, uh, and it was clear that they were upset and one of them told me, and she’s very, she’s a celebrity. She’s almost a hundred years old now, very famous. I won’t mention her name because people will recognize her.

And she told me, as long as I’m alive and I’m controlling the Montreal neurological Institute, you’ll never get. Studies neuroscience studies on spirituality, never. So she, she organized something with all the other members of the committee, the ethics research committee and the scientific committees to prevent me from doing these studies.

I had, uh, her, uh, a grant from the Templeton foundation based in United States, but I was not allowed the, the blocked me because, and what, and I asked them what for what, what is the reason? And I, when I started to argue about them regarding spiritual experiences and they were becoming bizarre, totally like if, uh, so, and then I knew that it was more than it was, uh, a war really between two contrasting, two different, totally different paradigms, dark, and.

That’s what I understood that, uh, but I could improve it. But now with everything that is happening on the planet regarding the, uh, It’s very obvious. Now it’s very clear. I think,


[00:38:02] Alex Tsakiris: think it is obvious and I think more people need to stand up and talk about it. And I think we need to wind it back a little bit because they’ve shifted the game a little bit.

It’s no longer about consciousness per se. There’s no longer the Dawkins and, you know, uh, that kind of stuff. But what they have introduced is kind of a direct, you know, you look at just slaying Maxwell being tried now and you know, this is Satanism and it’s openly satanic practices and we’ve interviewed.

People on this show that have been bought, but part of satanic ritual abuse cults, and you get to this disassociative identity disorder. And again, folks don’t take this wrong. I’m not a Christian. I don’t know what a satanic cult is. I don’t even know what that means inside of my worldview. I know that there is this extended realm that because people like Dr.

Beauregard come back and say, Hey, we study it scientifically. We started a near death experience. I don’t know what to tell you. There’s an extended round. People die and they go someplace there’s reincarnation. I don’t know what to tell you. They don’t, we don’t have to come to a bunch of firm conclusions.

We don’t have to pull out the Bible and say, this is what it means. We can just say what they’re telling us is bullshit. Those guys at McGill, the guys at Montreal knew there was an extended realm and they were playing with it and they were trying to tap into it. And they were trying to justify it as.

Well, if we don’t, we don’t tap into it and this could be both dark or light. If we want to explore all the sides of it, well, then darn it. The Russians will it. And what if they got Satan on their team? And what if, and believe me folks, these are really the kind. If you look through the documents, the released FOYA documents released in the Canada and recently used, this is what these guys are talking about in, in one way, you kind of got to go, well, I’m glad somebody’s at least considering that, but where they went with it in terms of the experiments that they did do and where they were willing to go in the lines that they were willing to cross, all of which were in this extended post materialist realm, it make, gives us pause as to considering what you’re saying is what is really behind them.

Not wanting to go and look at this research. Yes.

[00:40:28] Mario Beauregard: Well, the are actors, the, you know, they are participating in this battle, , but they are on the other side clearly. Yeah, because they, , yeah, they be. And, , that it’s true that, , several of these old people were there when that was, , when I started the, , they were part of th th th this, this theme exactly.

That we’re doing studies in collaboration with the CIA and the MKL through a program.

[00:41:03] Alex Tsakiris: So let’s, let’s take this one other direction, kind of on a less, take it down a notch for people who can’t maybe go there all the way. The other thing that I think you are a Testament to, and your story, your life, your documented. History in academia, you know, someone could just go look like you said, how do you fire a guy who has a Templeton foundation grant?

How do you do?

[00:41:30] Mario Beauregard: Oh yeah. And I heard several, uh, scientific prices awards and uh, oh,

[00:41:36] Alex Tsakiris: Yeah. So, so that is, that is the proof right there in, in here’s what I’d kind of tie it back to, and that is have we, and this is the way that most people in this community, this broader community that you work in, that aren’t willing to really entertain that discussion that we just had.

They just can’t go there where they can’t go. Is this idea that you alluded to, that we have a sense right now that in some ways the social contract between science and policy, between science and government, between science and culture, that that contract has in a way that I’ve never seen in my life just been thrown out the window.

I mean, they don’t even, they don’t even pretend to care. And the ignorance is, is quite dramatic. Let me play a couple of clips really quick. And then we’ll, we’ll chat about that. Okay.

So the first is from our friend Rupert Sheldrick back in 2013, when he was his Ted talk was banned and I’ll play my show on it. My interview with him, just a few seconds of it. And then we’ll talk

[00:42:45] Clip: on this episode of skeptical. Alex talks with Dr. Rupert Sheldrick about being censored by the Ted conference.

That’s the irony of this is if not hilarious, it’s certainly inescapable. I mean, a reputable scientist publishes a book claiming that science is dogmatic and then is censored by an anonymous, scientific board. What is this? Say how science can be dogmatic without even realizing it’s dog. Well, I think in

a way there’s this whole controversy and the people who’ve weighed in, in favor of the 10 actions that do indeed confirm what I’m saying, that these dogmas, the ones that most people within science didn’t actually realize the dogmas.

They just think they’re the truth. And the point about really dogmatic people is that they don’t know, they have dogmas, dogmas of beliefs and people that have really strong beliefs think of that beliefs as truth. They didn’t actually see them as beliefs. So I think this whole controversy has actually highlighted exactly that.

So I’m

[00:43:45] Alex Tsakiris: going to pause it there for a second. And I would almost say that those are the good old days, because it seems like there was some restraint back then. There was actually, it caused a stir when a reputable scientist like Rupert Sheldrick was banned. People were kind of up in arms and say, Hey, you can’t do that. Science has a right to speak and speak freely.

That is our social contract. That is what we, we, we demand here is so let me play a clip from an interview. I just did recently with, uh, Sarah and Jack Gorman. I think it’s pretty self-explanatory.


[00:44:25] Clip: These people are super smart, qualified, Sarah, you know, undergraduate degree, Harvard PhD, Columbia So speaking of silliness, here’s where I start, which seems obvious to me, to anyone who cares about science and that is, should we limit scientific debate?


I, I do think that anybody who spreads information about medical technology that people need in order to survive, that’s not true. And usually it’s intentionally not true. I don’t think that they should be allowed to have any platform they want

Sarah, who would determine what’s not true. Isn’t that the job of SOC?

Yeah. Well, science has already determined certain things about vaccines that they’re safe and effective. Certain vaccines that they’re safe.

[00:45:12] Alex Tsakiris: So I’ll, I’ll cut it off there. This is the water. Unfortunately, you’ve had to swim in all your life, but what comes through to me and the reason I play the Sheldrick clip first, and you totally got this. So I want you to speak to it is. It’s it’s different now.

It’s like Sarah Gorman, PhD from Columbia is really that clueless. She really, if they’re burning books and Colombia in the center square, that don’t agree with. Even if they’re from the most reputable scientists who’s published in nature multiple times, which has many hats and they’re being banned. She’s like, no I’m bought into the program that we don’t have to listen to people who don’t agree with this.

So speak to that cause that, that if people don’t get the spiritual warfare, they get, they get that that’s somehow a breaking of that

[00:46:06] Mario Beauregard: contract. Well, that’s the kind of scientists who, uh, will lead us to a attorney through an ethical system. And, uh, that reminds me of something, you know, there’s a famous university in Paris.

It’s very old. It’s called . It’s a bit like Harvard, but for the French. And about 10 years ago, they invited me to give a lecture on my work. And I went there and they, the organizers invited members of the French academy of sciences. That’s, you know, that’s an Abbott over there. That’s how they do it. So they let the, they start by listening to you and then they will make comments on what you just presented.

So I was seeing that during my talk and it lasted for a few hours, their pressure was rising. They, they, they were a red then, uh, had the N the president of the academy, very, uh, uh, noble man, uh, very well recognized in France. He said, it’s too bad that we’re not, uh, 200, 200 years ago because, uh, you know, what we would do with you, or, you know, what we would like to do with a guy like.

I said, uh, I think I have an ID. They would use the gate, the Dean, or even they would burn you at the stake. Yeah. And people started to argue with them and that, because, because there were lay people, it was during an evening and it was a public, uh, lecture. But, uh, but for scientists like Sarah, this is, and this is exactly what’s happening with regard to the so-called.

Uh, you know what? I don’t want you to be censored. So yeah, this is exactly the same process and there’s no end to it. So, and, uh, this linked. Tyrannical such systems and very dangerous, because if you agree with you, it doesn’t make

[00:48:14] Alex Tsakiris: any sense Mario, in your career. Because I guess one of my, one of my gripes, I think frontier scientists like yourself are in a unique position to speak to this and they don’t, they don’t, they don’t, they don’t. And they should, because we have to, we have to be the gladiators of light for the spiritual part. But the other part, even if you’re not a glad to go to the light, if you’re not into all that, you gotta be a glad to hear the truth and you gotta stand up and say, this is not, this is not right.

This is not true. And I think frontier scientists are in a better place to do it. And I think that I’m surprised more of them. Don’t notice. Where we’re at. Like you, do you seem to be able to put your finger on it and say, no, this is really different. We’ve now crossed a line. Speak to that. Have we, how different is this?

Is this feel different to you?

[00:49:11] Mario Beauregard: Oh yes. Yes. It’s, uh, there’s no, uh, respect anymore. No examination of the evidence, but now did you death openly? So, uh, with regard to the, the centery, uh, state of the world, and, um, so last year in line with my, my convictions, I, uh, participate in a group of people would decided to Sue the government, the provincial government and the federal government of Canada.

But guess what happened? The judges they’re corrupted. They’re part of the same system. So they, my role was to demonstrate scientifically to review the literature, showing. You don’t put the goal in LA normal people. Elfie people in lockdown that lasts forever. You don’t ask them to wear mask and so on and so forth.

And I, I, you know, I reviewed all the scientific literature about this and we sent that to the judges. It was the Supreme court, the highest level. The judges never review our, uh, lawsuit. They never examine it. This, they decide to sit on it forever to protect the, uh, puppet when additions to are in place right now.

That’s what they did, but it’s, it’s very similar insights. It’s uh, and, uh, you know, they have their own private club and, uh, if you’re not a member of this gob and, you know, uh, it will be very hard to accomplish something unless we unite. Yeah, no, and we need examples. I am willing to go because some, a lot of people, a behind closed doors, scientists all during all my career, uh, they, they said that it’s nice.

What you’re doing. It’s nice. Go to, uh, go there, be the first one to do because they are not courageous and they want to protect what they have. And so they need other people to, uh, fight. But

[00:51:21] Alex Tsakiris: how do we, how do we even unite is tricky, right? Because even in this community that you’re a part of the consciousness, frontier science community.

There’s there’s divisions. There’s still this, there’s still this left-right thing that goes on and it’s, it’s troubling because I’m like, okay, I get that. Some people are just wired to be political. I’m not a political, anyone to me, anyone who looks at this, you just see it’s, there’s, it’s there, there’s some level of control beyond that.

But for people who are in that, what can we unite on? What, what do you think is a potential answer of something within this community that they can, they can coalesce on and everyone can more or less agree? Is it post materialism? Is it, what do you think it is?

[00:52:13] Mario Beauregard: Well, science is, uh, influential because it has replaced religion as the ultimate cognitive authority.

So if you use the angle of science, uh, you, you may convince more people because lot of people have left. The truth is for now a few decades now. And, uh, so yes, yes, but likely are saying it’s very hard to be able to unite because there are many differences and, you know, even post materialist scientists include, uh, people who do not believe at all.

We’re not spiritual at all. And some of them are even, almost at east. So it’s, it’s uh, difficult to, uh, but what I decided to do to influence the, uh, the outcome of the, the, the future of humanity, I decided last year in response to the, and to create a new social network, to unite people conscious or awake people, spiritually spiritual people, we could say, uh, all over the.

So now it’s not only, it’s not only science or scientists within, because a lot of these scientists do not want to. Um, I know them, I interact with them. I’m part of a same academy, but they, they don’t, they don’t want to have any problems and they don’t want to go out and to face. Uh, they are not warriors, light warriors.

They are not willing to do that. And some of them are quite old now, so I, I can understand, but in my case, it’s very different. I’m all for it. I’m a warrior I’m used to it because I’ve been trained like this. I’ve been praying. I had to fight for my survival. And so, uh, um, it’s good. It’s okay for me to, to, to do this kind of job, but with other people, but I need, I think if whoever go water global transformation, we have to unite, but at a much wider scale than say.

Post material science now where we’re fighting with more than a material at the Eastern or so-called skeptics in science, the fight is much bigger. Now. it’s dark versus light it’s darkness, and it’s a spiritual war light. Like you said before to meet,

[00:54:41] Alex Tsakiris: I have a sense that you’re spot on on that.

And I also think we always have danced with this kind of inherent contradiction of post materialists, which is kind of a strange term because it isn’t really post materialist. It’s like pre materialists. It’s like consciousness is fundamental. Yeah. I

[00:54:58] Mario Beauregard: agree with you. I didn’t choose it getting right, right.

[00:55:02] Alex Tsakiris: No, I totally get that. No, no. You did the right thing, which is if we’re going to communicate effectively. Sometimes people don’t get that. We have to use the term, but I mean, w w you’re you’re, you’re almost in their playing field, and it becomes kind of the Stockholm syndrome kind of thing.

, but it’s like, no, it’s obviously not science has obsoleted itself. That’s the conclusion, right. Is like we can’t really measure and everything because there’s something beyond that. There’s something above that. So you can’t really get in bed with those people 100%. And that’s what I think you’re, you’re pointing to.

And you’re saying we have to, we have to reach towards something beyond that. Let me ask you this. As we begin to wrap things up, I am fascinated about your pre-cognitive experience that guided your life. And if we circle back to that, It’s really quite remarkable. And I have to wonder, do you think you signed up for all of this?

Do you think you knew it was going to be like this? Do you think you knew that, you know, you’re not going to get, you may not get, you may not get the big prize at the end. You may not get that at the very end you might, but in this realm you may not get the, a pat on the back of gosh, darn Mario. You were right.

All along. We’re so sorry. Kind of thing. Are you okay with that? Did you sign up for the whole thing? Yes,

[00:56:33] Mario Beauregard: yes, no, no. Yes. I’m not like you, I’m not religious at all. I left the church when I was a, you want it to become, uh, my parents wanted me to become a priest and, uh, but, uh, that was, what’s not for me. He sent me to seminary, but, uh, I started to fight with the, the, the priest on, uh, you know, I, uh, Uh, regarding the Bible content, there are dogmas.

And so, um, but, uh, no, I don’t, uh, I’m not doing, I have a sense of mission. So I do that. I do what I have to do. I don’t care if people like me or hate me, or, but you know what, by doing what I’ve done, I made a lot of friends all over the planet. I realized that, you know, lay people, I saw a big progression from when I started, uh, travel 30 years ago from now from a best to the last few years before the beginning of this, uh, craziness, uh, there’s an evolution of consciousness really in society.

Uh, I see that I can see the, I see that because people write to me and talk to me about their own experiences and, uh, you know, when. But, eh, and using social media now. And, uh, there was really, uh, so-so, there will be a big clash because, uh, and I w w and it’s, it’s right now where we’re in it now it started, it’s about two different worlds, two totally different trajectories.

And, uh, you know, the, the, the ultimate version of materialism in, at ism is transhumanism. You know, so silicone valley and all these guys, uh, war for mizing eternity, uh, under a different form. And, uh, these guys are, you know, this, there are con artists, they don’t know anything really about consciousness and spirit, and, uh, you know, they, they, what they are trying to, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re salesmen and they you’re trying to convince people.

So, but, uh, I’m not sure. I don’t think, uh, their project will, uh, won’t be successful.

[00:58:59] Alex Tsakiris: Ah, I want to pick up, I want to pick up on that because I agree with you, but I want to be honest about it too. And I hold onto two quotes that are, are both inspirational. And also I think true. And the first is Mahatma Gandhi who said good, always wins.

Look at it through history. He says, I’m not Pitt he’s I’m paraphrasing, but he goes, look, I’m not saying that just to sound, to make you feel better. I’m like, look at history Goodwin’s Goodwin’s. But the other quote, I really like is from my friend, Miguel Connor, a quote of a quote. He says evil always turns stupid.

And I think, I think we might begin it be beginning to see that there’s more and more people who are just kind of ordinary people. Who’ve just kind of helped, kept their nose to the grindstone. They haven’t listened to too much, but now they’re kind of gone. Nah, dog. That’s just too fricking stupid. Even for me to buy into that.

Well, what do you think about that? What is, is there a reason to be, to maybe to let the light shine through us? Do we have to be dark and, and, and do we have to be down about this? Is there a reason to be optimistic? Yeah.

[01:00:14] Mario Beauregard: Yes. Yes. I see that. And I’m in contact with people all over the planet and friends, uh, and, uh, the same as processes going on in many, many countries.

And yes, a lot of people. We’re not, uh, realizing what was going on or we were not, they didn’t care about that, but now they’re switching or changing. I can see that everywhere. I have context trends. And, uh, so I’m very optimistic, but it will be rough bumpy for a while, but, uh, I think they are cooked on the other side

[01:00:56] Alex Tsakiris: right on.

And I think science is going to play a key role in that, because that is the beauty of science. It does shine a light towards truth. It may not be the truth, but it can not nudge us a little closer. What do you think?

[01:01:12] Mario Beauregard: The real science? Nope. Pseudo science. Like the one utilized used by puppet politicians.

Right, right now. Yeah. It’s a, yeah, it’s disgusting. W what they are, they talk all the time about. That’s not science at all. That’s pure bullshit. That’s not true. That’s now we’re talking about real science, which has the power to change to transform the world. Yes.

[01:01:43] Alex Tsakiris: So it’s been absolutely terrific. Talking to our guests, , Dr. Mario Beauregard, please check out his books, his latest expanding reality. You will enjoy. You can go back and listen to our interview on brain wars and that’s still relevant.

And also check out his very nice, uh, web.

Where you can find what’s going on with him. And maybe you can tell us in a couple minutes, we have left Dr. Beauregard, what is coming up in your immediate future? You’re a busy guy. You’re a very, obviously a very driven and focused guy. What is coming up for you?

[01:02:19] Mario Beauregard: I’m finishing to create a new, a psycho-spiritual approach based on all the research I’ve done throughout my life.

And also based on the findings of other researchers as well. Uh, I’ve come with, uh, a new psycho-spiritual approach to help people, no, not mystics it as normal people to have access to their inner essence, their spiritual side. And, uh, I have developed a kind of technology to do this and, uh, To work with this with regard to all the various aspects of human life, the emotions can be, uh, the life plan and so on and so forth.

So it’s a huge endeavor and, uh, it will become public in, uh, 2022, uh, in France, but everything will be translated into, uh, other languages. Um,

[01:03:18] Alex Tsakiris: that’s fantastic. Certainly as ambitious, when you say technology, are you speaking of, kind of a, a method, a series of techniques or

[01:03:27] Mario Beauregard: kind of how I use, um, I use isochronic sounds to alter the, uh, to expand the, the awareness that’s, but I’m also, uh, using, uh, various types of exercises and sometimes guidance like you do in the.

It knows this a bit, but, um, I’ve been doing this kind of work for now for six years, with thousands of people in Europe and also in, uh, in Quebec and Canada. And, uh, I realized that it’s because, uh, very often the, the journalists were interviewing me, uh, about my research on spiritual experiences. You were asking me well, okay.

It’s, it’s interesting to know what’s going on in the brain, but how does it help normal people, uh, to, to, to connect? So this stayed with me. And, uh, so I worked on this and I, I developed an approach. Facilitate the access to the, uh, if the spiritual world, if you will, without having to die clinically,

[01:04:40] Alex Tsakiris: that would be a requirement.

Well, that’s terrific. And I do hope you come back next year when it’s out so we can tell people about it because I’m sure a lot of, yes,

[01:04:49] Mario Beauregard: because I want to go to Gary Schwartz. I was asked, didn’t ask, pushing me a, since a few years to go to United States, present that then I, I w I would like to do that very much true.

But right now I’m in jail in Canada. I cannot thrive it. You know why

[01:05:07] Alex Tsakiris: that’s okay. It’ll pass. It’ll pass. Uh, Maria, it’s been terrific. Terrific. Having you on best luck with all that, and let’s stay in touch you. Don’t when you come down to Tucson, let me

[01:05:19] Mario Beauregard: know. Okay. Thanks a lot.


[01:05:24] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks again to Dr. Mario Beauregard. Regard for joining me today on skeptical. The one question idea from this interview is kind of an obvious one. What do you think of this idea of a battle in science light versus dark forces?

Come on. I mean, science is about doing good work about protocol standards, publishing peer review. And deceiving others in order to advance the shadowy agenda of those who would seek to control.

No, no, no, wait, scratch. Scratch that. Of course that’s not in there. That’s never a part of science.

. Let me know where you stand on that one. Love to hear your thoughts.

If you’d like the show, tell a couple people.

Lots more to come until next time. Take care. And bye for now.


. (music: Improvisation 2 Spectre Folk) (music: Tomie’s Bubbles Candlegravity). [box]

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