Kevin Annett, Whistleblower of an Evil Church |433|


Kevin Annett is a former minster turned whistleblower of a now admitted large-scale conspiracy of church and state.

photo by: Skeptiko

Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:06] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics.

At this point, most of us are, at least, a little bit tired of stories about social injustice, but one of the unfortunate consequences of the social justice warrior thing is the proportionality of it. Take, for example, today’s guest.

In 1994, as a minister of United Church in British Columbia, Kevin Annett walked into, what he probably thought was his dream job. Now that job turned into a nightmare and a 25-year ordeal as he became a whistleblower of some of the most horrific, holocaust-level crimes in Canada’s history. And worse yet, chances are, you’ve never even heard about any of them.

You know, on this show I’m always drawn to stories where one person can make a monumental difference, and Kevin Annett is certainly one of those people. Besides being an award-winning journalist and filmmaker, he’s also become a continuous voice for justice in a very important way. And I think is, as we were just chatting about a minute ago, his story is critical to understanding our culture in general.

So, it’s a bit of a long introduction there, but Kevin, it is a great pleasure to have you on Skeptiko and thanks so much for joining me.

Kevin Annett: [00:01:49] Thank you, Alex. I appreciate the time to be able to do this.


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Click here for Forum Discussion 

Click here for Kevin Annett’s Website


Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:52] So Kevin, of course, we’re going to talk about your books. I’ve just popped one of them up here, Murder by Decree, and people can also check out, which stays up to date on a lot of things that are going on in your world.

But you know, I think the easiest place to start is history, the history of what happened. I have a short clip I’m going to play from the movie. I want to let people know this movie, Unrepentant, is available on YouTube.  Let me play this clip.

1: [00:02:23] Unrepentant reveals Canada’s darkest secret; the deliberate extermination of indigenous peoples and the theft of their land under the guise of religion. This never before told tale as seen through the eyes of a former minister who blew the whistle on his own church, after he learned of its murder of thousands of children in its Indian residential schools.

What happened to the thousands of children who died or disappeared while in Canada’s Indian residential schools? Why have Canada and the churches responsible for their fate refused to say what happened to them and stayed silent in the face of hundreds of eyewitnesses who claim seeing murders and experiencing obscene tortures in these schools?

 Alex Tsakiris: [00:03:00] So Kevin, that’s again a very brief clip from the movie. Please start and tell us the story, just as you have told so many times from the beginning.

Kevin Annett: [00:03:11] Well, there’s a lot. I think I’ll touch on the main points that are relevant to the way you set up the interview.

I was like a lot of Canadians, even though I was, from a young age involved in politics and social justice issues and all that, I was still completely ignorant of our own, kind of set in our backyard, and that’s not accidental, the histories have been wiped clean. It resides only in the memory of the survivors and I began to meet some of them.

I was ordained in the United Church in 1990. By ’92 my young family and I were in Port Alberni, which is right on the west coast of Canada in Vancouver Island, and I’ll never forget the first time anyone told me about this. It was the first week I was on the job and I was hired to go out and kind of bring new people into the church, because there was a dying congregation, St. Andrew’s United Church, and I got a call from a native guy called Danny Gus who wanted to get married. I went out to talk to him, his home was right next to the former, what they call residential schools, these were internment camps.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:04:18] Can I just interject? At this time you don’t know any of that stuff. You don’t know that the schools are internment camps. You don’t know that, what you later document very carefully in proceedings that you submit to the court, that the death rate is what you said, 50% don’t come back and then through testimony you find that they are being murdered and they’re being tortured and experimented upon and all the stuff you hear about, like holocaust level kind of stuff, right?

Kevin Annett: [00:04:51] Right, no, I didn’t even know about the existence of these places then. Danny Gus said, you know, I asked him why there were no Indians in any of the churches, kind of naively, “A third of the population is native, you don’t see them working anywhere and why isn’t there that contact?” He didn’t say anything for a long time. He was looking out the window at the former school, because the buildings were still standing there, and finally he said, “They killed my best friend in that school and beat him to death and then they buried him in the [hill out back 00:05:23]. That’s why they don’t want us in their churches. So that blew my mind.

Now, I told somebody in the church right away and they said, “Well, don’t believe them, they’re just mad at us for taking their land. They’re just making all of this stuff up.” Because at that point, this was summer of ’92 when I first started working there, there had been no court cases. The court cases didn’t start until four years later. So the churches were free to say, “Oh no, it’s all made up.” They only started admitting stuff when they were getting sued. They had kept it covered up before that.

So that led me down a trail…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:58] And those lawsuits, you are instrumental to opening up the possibility to people even having those lawsuits. And I go back to even your story, I want to go back to that. When this guy says, this human being, this fellow, potential member of the congregation says, “I want you to marry me, but the church was responsible for murdering.” One of the reasons we can ignore this guy is because he’s Indian, right? Because if it’s a white person that says that, we at least have to have pause. And in this case we can just kind of dismiss it, it’s an Indian, so they make stuff up.

Kevin Annett: [00:06:41] That’s been part of the problem here, is that because it seems to be occurring to a foreign group, most white people can’t relate to it. Even though this was happening and still today happens to lots of white children too.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:06:54] Exactly.

Kevin Annett: [00:06:54] Institutionalized murder, I mean, it’s going on. But the natives were like the canary in the mineshaft. A lot of the stuff that’s happening now to all of us was tested out on them first, and that’s another thing I’ve found out.

But yeah, you’re quite right. The first lawsuit began, actually right after I got fired because the short story here is that, I started bringing native people in, they began to share more stories.

In one of my latest books, At the Mouth of a Cannon, you can get this on Amazon, I talk about how the issue that actually got me fired was not just letting natives speak from the pulpit about these crimes in the residential schools, which I did, but I found out that the missionaries of my former church had grabbed all of this native originally,  I mean, given to it by the British Crown, right? Other people’s land. Then later they sold it off for a lot of money to logging companies, all sorts of big money involved right? And I wrote a letter about that and I was out of my can immediately, because you’re stepping on the big toes, many toes behind the church.

But after that, within half a year of me getting fired, these lawsuits began and that’s when the church really moved on me because I was sharing information with the lawyers, hard evidence that had been given to me that yeah, this wasn’t just rape and beatings, this was killings, medical experimentation, mass murder, that’s now been admitted, to some degree. So one thing led to another, right?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:08:25] Yeah, there are so many things to touch on there. I kind of hardly know where to begin.  I do want to emphasize the fact that, as we talk about this, there’s going to be a certain casualness to the conversation that is going to throw people off. I mean, we’re talking about, again, a holocaust level. And I’d like to throw that term out there because that’s really what we’re talking about, and if, when we put it in that context, it upsets people. But that’s truly, in every respect, a particular group is targeted. We have those groups as less than humans, so we can do all sorts of things, all sorts of sexual abuse and rape and torture of the worst kind. We can do experimentation, and ultimately we can do murder.

And then this thing gets so deep and when we talk about being “acknowledged”, and I put that in quotes, because that’s a whole other story too and it speaks to how conspiracies happen and how part of the process is to, kind of get in front of the story and meld the story and soften the story and change the story, and you’ve seen that and experienced that as well.

And then the other thing I thought we might talk about, so that people can wrap their heads around what really happened, is what you just touched on. It’s good for business. It’s not good for business to have any population that you need to support or provide services for. The less people you can provide services for, kind of the better it is for your business, really.

But the other side of that, that I think we want to touch on, is that there’s an evil to this that goes even beyond just the usual money grubbing, how can I kind of make more money for myself, human greed kind of factor. Do you want to speak to any of those topics? 

Kevin Annett: [00:10:21] Well yeah, there’s a lot there. But what I’ll do is take it piece by piece here.

The problem these days with the internet is that people are so overwhelmed by a lot of allegations, but they’re never really backed up with hard evidence. The thing that’s unique about my story is not only that I’m still alive, but that I’ve systematically documented this from the very beginning. And the very fact that I’ve never been sued by anybody is proof right there, because if this was wrong and I was making it up, they’d have me in court like that, to shut me down, right? They’ve never contested it, even when we went and set up a common law court in Europe and put the Pope and Queen Elizabeth on trial, even then they didn’t dispute it because they knew it was all true.

What you have to do is, it’s like when I was law school for a year, before I dropped out, one thing I learned, they told me in legal process class, when you’re in court, if the evidence is on your side, you argue the evidence, but if the evidence goes against you, attacked by witnesses…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:11:18] Well, you know, let me interject something. The first thing I always do when I have a guest on the show, I usually do this, because sometimes I’ve failed at my own expense when I haven’t done this, is I always go and look at the other side. So I could go and look at, “Kevin Annett Liar,” because that comes up all the time. “Kevin Annett Liar.” And I went and looked at that data because it reveals so much. It takes about five minutes of Kevin Annett Liar stuff to just see how flimsy all of those arguments are. And as you just pointed out, one thing that you do Kevin, you not only documented it, you name names and we’re going to play a couple of clips later. You say, “This Canadian Mountie did this,” and you immediately go, “Well, if that’s not true, then there’s going to be a lawsuit.” And then you name another person and you say, “If that’s not true, there’s going to be a lawsuit.”

Kevin Annett: [00:12:16] I talk about this in my whistle blower manual, I call them the three Ds. If you’re a whistle blower, you going to have to deal with, deny, discredit and distract. They have denied everything. They’ve got to distract the issue away from the evidence and they’ve got to discredit the person saying it. But they can never use the evidence so they always focus on the person and try to just make people afraid of them. And I say, “Look, it’s not about me. Just go to, look at the hard evidence, looks at the 50% death rate over half a century. That’s an issue no one in Canada ever addresses, the media, government, churches, anyone, because they know there’s proof right there. Why would the children in 1903 be dying at the same death rate that they are in 1952, half a century later, unless it’s deliberate? Because if you’ve got a high death rate from communicable disease, you fix the situation and the death rate comes down.

But no, they’re taking the healthy children, putting them in with the sick and letting them die off. They did that 50 years apart. That’s an intent to wipe out children. So no one ever addresses that, they just say, “Oh, Kevin’s making it up.” Well, how can I? In here we show documents from Dr. Peter Bryce who documents it. It documents that half of the children are dead after less than a year and it’s the same figure decades later.

So that right there, they can’t refute it so they’ve got to distract from it, they’ve got to get people forgetting those things. You’ll never see that reference anywhere in a Canadian curriculum, in a movie on residential schools. The only people talking about it is the movement we started.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:13:49] True enough and again, I just can’t say enough, that there’s no way we can cover this story, the evidence that Kevin and his group and other people who have joined his cause have amassed in this show. But if you read his book and if you go to where he updates this stuff, you will see documents that he’s submitted to court that prove this. The Application for Admission or something like, into these residential schools that clearly states some of these things.

But I want to come back and I want to talk about this whistle blower thing that you just brought up, because I think whistle blowing is misunderstood. It’s gone from this, very kind of positive, social change. In your story you talked about, at the very beginning when you got fired, but that process actually took a while, right?

Kevin Annett: [00:14:45] Well, you don’t see yourself as a whistle blower at first. I mean, again, naivety has a place because if we’re really aware of what we’re up against, we’d never do this stuff, like simple self-protection, concerned about our children, we’d pull back. So it has a place, our ignorance can be a great virtue in the long run. It’s like yin and yang, the light and the shadow, right?

But anyway, they tried the velvet glove and the hammer approach at first. They said, “Kevin, you can stay in the church but you’ve got to have psychiatric evaluation and be retrained. So the implication was, if I went along with that, I would be admitting that I’m kind of crazy to have even mentioned these things. That way they’re, “It’s just Kevin’s imagination. Children never died, it was just Kevin imagining these things.” So I said no to that, I said, “No, there’s no basis for a psychogen.

So at that point they brought the hammer down, they went to my wife, they said, “We’re never going to let him work again,” and the first thing you do, you go to the wife and the people around this guy and take them out, take away any possible support. They got my wife to secretly plan a divorce against me, they admit, she eventually got the children, my two daughters. It’s interesting because they assured her that she would get the children in the family court because they had the collusion of the family court system in British Columbia.

At that point you realize, we’re up against the Crown here, the government. It isn’t just some United Church people scared about their dirty laundry coming out. I went up against the empire almost immediately, and that was proof of that, because the government and the church, they’re all involved in these crimes.

So, I started getting late night visits from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, just harassment. I wasn’t allowed to work anywhere. I went into poverty, I lost my kids. I tried to retrain at the university and they blocked my funding there. I mean, it went on and on like that.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:16:42] Hold on, because there’s a lot to this story. I want to know if we can drill into this a little bit. You’re doing, to put it in Christian terms, you’re doing God’s work, you’re serving a population. I want to know what this is like for you because you had to feel like you were following your calling, you were bringing these up, reintroducing them to the church, what a wonderful thing. People who have been alienated from the church and you’re bringing them back in.

Kevin Annett: [00:17:14] Yeah, well that’s why it didn’t make sense because if they were smart, they would have offered me another job, they wouldn’t have come down of me. Because the more they came down on me, the more I got educated and the more I didn’t stop. You see this is the big mistake tyrants always make. They think, “If we crush the people, we’re going to win.” The more you try to crush somebody, most people will be taken out but there’s a small minority who will learn and who will get tougher and who become veterans and say, “Well no, I’ve lost my children, what else can I lose? It doesn’t matter, do whatever you want to me, I’m not stopping now.” Sun Tzu talks about that in the Art of War, he says, “Never force your enemy into an [unclear 00:17:54] situation because then they get a real resolve. They know they’re going to die, they’ll fight to the death at that part, which is what I’m doing.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:00] I get that and I’m totally blown away that you took that path because very few people take that path, and most people find a way to jump out of the plane way sooner than that.

But I just do want to go back to that for one more minute, because we want to talk about the spiritual part of this and the deeper spiritual part, and I want to know for you, as a Christian, as a minister, as a reverend, you know, a leader of the church. You’re doing the right thing, through all of your training and through your deep personal beliefs, I have to believe at this point, and you’re bringing these people back to church, you’re bringing these people back to Christ for whatever that means. You’re setting up a food bank to serve these people. You’re doing all of the things you’re supposed to do and then when these people come up and they start talking from the pulpit, your heart has to sink every time you hear these stories and you’re wrestling with how, “How has my church been complicit in this?” What is that transformation process like, before they even come with the velvet fist?

Kevin Annett: [00:19:07] I wasn’t really, I mean, even then as a minister, I knew the history of Christianity, even if people like to ignore it. I mean, just the Catholic church alone has been responsible for more killing in history than anything institution. So I knew it was, not even just a dichotomy, it was a lie. There’s nothing more of a lie than organized religion, because it’s saying one thing on Sunday and doing the exact opposite during the week. I learned quickly that the church is about big money. Every church that I’ve encountered, if you scratch beneath the surface you’ll find they’re all involved in money laundering, usually for organized crime. They have a tax-exempt status. They’re all involved in child trafficking and child abuse. It’s rampant. I get calls every week from people in the Mormon church, not just all of the mainstream churches, Jehovah’s witnesses. Religion provides a great cover for crime because people think, “Oh, that’s the last place it’s going to go on, they’re all moral people, aren’t they?” No, it’s the opposite.

So I had to learn all of that on the ground and I’m glad I learned it. I wouldn’t go back to that sea of ignorance for anything.


Alex Tsakiris: [00:20:14] fair enough. Tell you what,  I did want to play a another clip for folks.

Kevin Annett: [00:20:19] So Tom, this Mountie threatened me of Peter Montague. He’s head of each division, uh, secret ops. They call it black ops, whatever. Um, he actually, these guys are funny, you know, because they think they’re God and they can’t be touched. So they like to boast to you about what they’re going to do to you and what they can do and everything is so, Mani, you said to me that, um, you’re never, you not only never going to work in this country again, but nobody’s ever going to know.

No one’s gonna remember your name after 10 years. They don’t talk about murder, rape, torture. They talk about abuse and being estranged from their families and you know, all of the soft language. Um, not, uh, after that date, my name was swapped out to the media. You’d never see it again. I was like in apartheid, South Africa, they w when you were banned, your name could never be mentioned in the media.

It’s why the. South Africans came to Canada to set up their apartheid laws. They just studied what we did on the Indian reservations and with the Indian act and modeled the apartheid laws on on Canada.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:22] Okay. There’s, there’s a lot there to unpack. I want to let people know that that is a lot, an hour long interview you have available on YouTube again.

Excellent. If you want to check it out, ah, please do. Kevin just talks. Very matter of factly, but again with a ton of evidence to back up what he’s saying. Do you want to speak to the threats? The bullet, I understand there is a bullet left on your like kitchen table. You were directly threatened that you’d be killed.

I mean, talk about that.

Kevin Annett: [00:21:56] Well, I mean, there’d been a lot of things. I mean, and it varies. It usually increases when I started getting more public exposure when we expanded to Europe and began to work there and help bring down Pope Benedict in 2013 then it really intensified. Right? And then it was physical assault.

It was a people disappearing who I was working with. Uh, yeah, the whole gamut. You know, like, uh, they can’t strike it. Somebody with a lot of light on them. Anybody who’s got a lot of exposure. Um, they tend to just hit the people around them. And, um, so it kind of goes up and down a lot. But the reality is if you’re going to kill somebody, you do it.

You don’t send them a death threat. If you’re gonna Sue them, you’ll do it. You won’t say, I’m going to Sue you. Right. I mean, a lot of this is decided to scare in intimidating Um, and so I don’t even think about it anymore. I know that a lot of people who are even in the system agree with that.

Me, I’ve had cops. People in the churches, they all say, yeah, it’s good. This is coming out, but I can’t be associated with it, right? I’m worried about my pension or whatever. Right? So the impact we have as much greater than we realize, uh, that’s why they constantly need us to back off. They try to scare us into backing off all the time.

And if you don’t, the system is remarkably fragile and vulnerable. And you just have to keep pushing. And we found that we occupied these churches. And um, once we started going in on Sunday morning and, uh, occupying them and talking about the dead children within a couple of weeks, the government started to talking about issuing apologies.

the church has collapsed. You know, we, we can accrue against him in every way just by going in threatening what they love. That’s what Sensu says in the art of war. It doesn’t matter how small you are, if you threaten what the larger enemy loves him and holds dear. Their strength is nullified and they have to respond to what you’re doing.

And that’s exactly, that was born out and everything. It was maybe 2000 of us across the country and we forced out this truth. Right? So it’s a, it’s a real lesson for us and the, the powers that be, are the powers that pretend to be, I don’t want us to learn that lesson because he was a great strengths in the people, a sleeping giant.

If we awakened to our real power. Yes. Shit, it’s gone. I mean, we’re, we can just change the world tomorrow. If we woke up to that rapid,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:24:11] maybe let’s talk some more about that. I’ll tell you where I want to go next and then I’ll let you maybe pick after that. But the topic of conspiracy is always interesting to me, and it comes up a lot on this show.

I’m amazed that so many people really don’t. Oh, believe that conspiracies of this scale can even happen. They just say that one of their first things is, I don’t believe it because I don’t think it could exist. So I think one of the things that you stand witness to is that yeah, you can have these huge large scale conspiracies involving the highest levels of government ill involving.

Uh, the inner workings of these religious institutions that will have almost the ultimate power inside our culture and they do exist. So do you want to speak to conspiracy?

Kevin Annett: [00:25:08] Well, you know, it’s a funny word

because it’s become a pejorative kind of term, but under the law, a conspiracy is three or more people.

Gathering and attending to causing crime. It’s a term criminal conspiracy, you know, and, and so it’s not some imagined thing, right? Um, the way it operates in practice, the people with money and power don’t have to conspire. They just make arrangements, right? We don’t know about those arrangements and we learn about them and our whole world is blown away because, well, we live, um.

Where everything is so normalized, the crime is so normal to us that it doesn’t seem like a crime. What

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:43] do you mean? What does that mean to you? In this case? Because not most people, most people don’t think what you’re exposing. They wouldn’t find anything normal about that. Taking these kids.

Put it, forcing them to enter these schools, which are death camps. They know that there are going to the, that a significant portion of those kids are going to die. And then knowing that significant marshals kids are going to be abused, physically, sexually raped, you know, then that’s not normal.

Kevin Annett: [00:26:15] Well, I’ll give you an example. Um, one of the first forums we held in Vancouver, a woman came and she was almost the only white person. There was almost all native survivors of the death camps, and her name was Mary and McFarlane. And she’s described how she worked in the Alberni residential school and she got fired because one day she found a matron taking a panel leg and beating a little Indian girl to death with it.

And so Mary Ann knocks out the woman doing that. She defends girl, John Andrews, the principal fires are for doing that, and he says, anything that happened to that little squad, would it be. Better than losing that woman because she plays the organ in church on Sunday. We can’t lose that. So there’s a hierarchy of, in anybody’s mind, okay, well, so a little Indian kid dies.

I mean, they seem kind of odd anyway. They’re like different, you know, death is abstract, but we can’t. Not having an organist on Sunday because that’s something we know. We knew. We knew we want pleasant music on Sunday, right? So we act, we all have a low, small little circle of experience. And when you say death and torture, it’s outside that by and large, unless you’re a victim yourself.

And then you just didn’t want to talk about it and you want to pretend your life was fine. Um, but if that is outside your circle of experience, it’s all abstracting. It’s not, there’s no reference point. Right. And that’s why you go on to bring in, and we stopped talking to it, Aboriginal children, and we started just saying, children, that’s something people can relate to.

Okay. Dead children, um, that you can relate to it because there’s nothing more horrible than the idea of losing your own child. Right. Okay. Having gone through that myself last. Tech with my own children. When I spoke in a healing circle, I spoke from my heart, my own pain. But people trusted me because it’s something they could relate to.

But most of the stuff, genocide, it’s just a word. It doesn’t mean anything to anyone to tells you, give a specific example. This child was tortured to death on this date and buried in this whole by this person. Right? And that’s what we’ve been saying from the very beginning and all the work here, the details of how it happened, here’s why it happened.

They came out of a system that’s been doing that for centuries, right. And that’s normal in our culture to do that. Genocide is a normal tool of church and state. It has been for centuries.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:34] The other thing I thought we might touch on, because I think you again, provide witness to this, is some of the tricks of the trade in terms of how these conspiracies are not just perpetuated, but then covered up and that’s work that you continue to do to this day.

I love the, you know, from the Simpsons, you know, when I’m. Keith wisdom says, we’re gonna, we’re gonna appoint a blue ribbon committee to look into this. And Homer says, well, blue ribbon, you can’t get better than that. And that’s like a little trick of the trade. It’s so obvious at this point, it’s been done over and over again.

The Warren commission, the nine 11 commission here in the States. But how did it operate for you and, uh, in this work that you’re doing in Canada, this blue ribbon commission.

Kevin Annett: [00:29:26] Well, let you know, that’s the purpose of any so-called commission of inquiry to control the narrative. They call it in public relations, you have to move in quickly.

Control the narrative, tells the story from your point of view. And uh, they, they, when I began to publish this stuff, they, they first aid denied it. And then when the lawsuits began, they said, okay, it happened. But it wasn’t intentional. We were just trying to help these poor little kids in their excesses.

And, you know, a few children were harmed, but now we’re going to apologize and give money. But if you’ve got the money, there’s a gang, you order a test to it. So it’s your native person. Uh, you can’t ever talk about it again. It was just another way to get gay people. So, um, in once the various stages, and now has got to the point where on June 4th, the prime minister, Justin Trudeau even admitted genocide happened.

He said that yes, it was genocide. Well, now they’re saying thousands of children died. So there 20 years later they’re saying everything I did. But they’re still saying, Kevin, I’m making it all up, even though there’s, they’re repeating it. So it’s crazy. You know, when you look at it the way it plays out in practice, but I’m, don’t forget they’re able to say that now because they’ve legally indemnified everybody, and that’s what they do while they’re talking all the correct politically correct.

Talk. They’re making sure that nobody can get sued. The truth is, won’t lose their, uh, insurance coverage, which is what their main concern was, uh, that the, you know, that, that have all our properties seized in a court case or whatever. That was their only real concern, losing money. Um. Um, and so the perpetrators indemnify themselves, and then they use all the right language and they silence everybody in the same time at the same time.

So at the end of the day, they, George Orwell in 1982 14 called the erase the eraser. Even the process of cover-up is erased and they rewritten history, and now everyone in Canada thinks, Oh yeah, well the government and churches did the right thing, and they admitted to stuff, and now everyone’s happy.

Right. They know, know anything about the real history or the campaign we waged to force this out. Right. It’s being effectively erased. So here’s an example of it. Yeah. That, that image of got.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:31:28] Let’s play this clip from a video that you just recently released on YouTube. And again, I don’t know if we can get people there, but there’s a depth to this that is just, we’ll talk about.


Kevin Annett: [00:31:45] Hello. This is Kevin ANet. We’re at the university of British Columbia campus, and I’m going to demonstrate it a case in point of the Canadian cover up in genocide. Here we have off to our left,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:31:58] the Kerner

Kevin Annett: [00:31:58] library, where since 1996 I uncovered the hard evidence of genocide in Canada. The documentation right down in the Basement area.

The microphone dark. How’s at the department of Indian affairs showing evidence of mass deaths in residential schools,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:16] sterilization programs,

Kevin Annett: [00:32:17] crimes against humanity. Discovered right there year after year, now liquid. The perpetrators of that crime

Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:26] have just created

Kevin Annett: [00:32:27] right next door.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:30] Indian residential school

Kevin Annett: [00:32:31] history and dialogue center.

Now what’s interesting is I went in there. And I asked around to see what

Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:36] evidence they had about residential schools and guess what? In this

Kevin Annett: [00:32:40] government and church funded

Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:42] cover up

Kevin Annett: [00:32:43] building, they have nothing of the evidence that’s right next door here in Kerner library. None of the not a single one that’s just 50 feet away, found its way into the Indian residential school

Alex Tsakiris: [00:33:00] history and

Kevin Annett: [00:33:01] dialogue center.

Chino. That’s not because the serial killer pointed the jury by any chance did it. I remember asking a reporter, if you’re a serial killer, would you get to important your own judge and jury? Because that’s what’s happened with the TRC. The church has got to nominate who? The TRC commissioners where the privy council office approved it.

These are the very people that did the crime doing the investigation into themselves.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:33:29] powerful stuff there. Do you want to elaborate? Well, I

Kevin Annett: [00:33:33] mean, that’s the Norman candidate and what, you know, the double think going on is that people could look at that and go, well, that’s good. And I said, no, it’s an obvious cover up.

They’re putting out their own version and ignoring the hard evidence and destroying the evidence is An example of that is the Supreme court in Canada two years ago ruled that any evidence coming out of a residential school could be destroyed. Okay. A court Sandy can destroy evidence from a crime scene.

Right. It’s like it’s mind boggling once these people get away with and yet thinking they’re doing the right thing.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:34:05] Yeah. Well, I was listening to your radio show podcast recently and you were documenting another case of that, and again, for people like me who are truly are trying to understand this stuff at a deeper level, and it’s broader implications for.

Conspiracy and truth finding, but you talked about how they’re now kind of even co-opting the digging up of these mass grave sites, which are really crime scenes, but there’s somehow recasting this as just a way of, Oh yeah, you know, some bad things did happen there and some kids got hurt. That’s really sorry that they died on those farm implements and we’ll just move all the evidence over here.

Kevin Annett: [00:34:54] Well, you know, the best example of that is when we did the dig, the only big that’s ever happened at a math out of residential school, we, I was invited by the grand Ruber Mohawks in Ontario to come and dig at the site of the oldest residential schools called the Mohawk school Anglican church.

Sure. Being a mom around it. Um,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:35:12] let’s just be clear. They wanted you to dig because they felt that they knew

Kevin Annett: [00:35:17] that

Alex Tsakiris: [00:35:18] their children were

Kevin Annett: [00:35:20] buried there. Well, they saw it. I mean, I met Toronto, well, Henry, uh, Leona Moses, other people who had dug the graves and put their fellow students in the ground.

We went over, we got experts. We’ve got ground penetrating radar. We had two forensic specialists coming in. Archeologist did the dig. Within an hour, we found bones and buttons wrapped in the roots of the tree because it used to be plant trees on top of the graves. The high, the remains. These were buttons from before world war II, like they weren’t plastic.

They were earlier versions of buttons. We had the bones analyzed at the Smithsonian Institute. Sure enough, it was the, um, Nissan could have a young girl, maybe five. No median Canada reported the first evidence of uncovering the remains children at a residential school was totally censored out of the media.

One newspaper reported to the Mohawk community newspaper in Bradford, Ontario. That’s it. After that, they then moved in. They all, they got the, the government funded chiefs to destroy the site, to silence everybody. pay off or our scare off the elders who had invited me. The whole thing. That was in early 2012 but all of that evidence we used in the Commonwealth court case in Europe to help indict these people in first Ratzinger to resign and all this other stuff.

 in public relations, they call it the inoculation strategy.

You will not collate people. With an idea and then dump. They get so used to hearing it that they’re there. They’re not regulated against coming to a conclusion and being shocked and saying, wait a minute, what’s going on? It’s a gradual process of normalizing a horrible thing, and that’s how they, one of the ways they do it.


Alex Tsakiris: [00:36:56] exactly. That’s very well said. Precisely what we’re saying here, and we’ll see over and over again when we talk about conspiracy because it is one of the tried and true tricks of the trade. You’re desensitizing people from it. Where should we go next? There’s a lot of topics that we could potentially talk about.

Is there anything up there that you’d like to speak to next, Kevin?

Kevin Annett: [00:37:19] Well, it’s all relevant. I mean, I think it’s good to, I’m actually doing a duck, a SQL to our documentary film on repentance, um, which I didn’t mention. We, we, uh. We released this film in 2007 and it really is what forced the apology in Canada because members of parliament had seen this film.

They got up in parliament and asked about the missing children. Um, so at first opened the whole issue and like you mentioned, that’s online, but we want to do a sequel to it to talk about,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:37:49] not

Kevin Annett: [00:37:49] just in the last 10, 12 years, how this whole thing is being covered up and, and, you know, shut down.

But how this crime is continuing today. Cause it’s getting a lot worse in areas in British Columbia. The, the rate of native families going missing the Chinese. We found that the, the Chinese that are buying up a lot of their resources have their own private desk squads that are forcing native families off the land at gunpoint.

Uh, the RCMP and the Canadian government and the present prime minister is implicated in that. Um, and that should be an ex, uh, an issue in the president election campaign in Canada. But nobody’s mentioned it. Of course, even though the evidence is being published all over, um, all of that stuff we want to document in a, this new documentary film.

But part of it is to interview me about, well, how has this changed you? Because the most interesting part of a of a story is a history is somebody’s story right? Um, how has it changed to what conclusions have you come? And I’m going to be talking about that. And I think, yeah, the spiritual path, which in a way is hard to talk about because it’s so personal, right?

Um, and you, that’s something that I think, um, I just found some really important things because it has to do with how we really, if there’s a chance to overcome this, these crimes and how they carry on, it’s got to start with that personal awakening right. Well,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:39:09] I do want to talk about that, and it is personal, but I think it’s important because you’re someone who is endured a tremendous amount of personal pain.

Personal sacrifice. I can only imagine the dark nights of the soul that you’ve gone through. Not, I want to take it outside of a Christian context, unless you want to add it back into that, because we’re really talking about a deep spirituality here where we all are forced to confront those deep questions of who we are, how, what is our relationship to.

Whatever other forces there are in the universe. What was that like for you when your whole world was falling apart, and then how did you find the strength to kind of go forward in such a profound way?

Kevin Annett: [00:39:59] Yeah, I’ll leave Christianity out of this because it’s kind of like George Bernard Shaw said, Christianity sounds like a wonderful idea.

Somebody should try it sometime. Yeah. So I’ll move on to more basic things. Um, the, um, uh, well, I, and unnatural, the way I put it in some of my recent books is, the truth of this is that I did die. I, I w it was not simply trauma. My whole life was uprooted and part of me died. And I think, um.

Losing your children, going through constant poverty and a text and just seeing everyone around you step back, um, step back from you,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:40:36] step back from supporting you,

Kevin Annett: [00:40:38] right. And how easy it is to make people do that. Even the ones who love you and the ones who say they’re going to stand by you and the ones you wouldn’t back off, they simply killed.

It was a, I wrote a book called fallen. How about for these guys, native guys in Vancouver who would not abandon me and they’re all killed. Yeah. And medic lethal injection or a beaten by cops and Vancouver beating up you know, it’s, it’s when you live in that everyday, when you’re living in a war zone.

There’s another part of us. If you don’t collapse entirely, there’s something else that starts rising in us and it’s, it’s, it’s something that can only be present in adversity. It’s really interesting because, uh, and the good times, you don’t experience this, the strong part of us, this, this immortal part.

I think this part that can’t be broken, it only steps out in the hard times when you, when not just a hard time. Like poor me. Look at what’s happening to be, but no, if here and like righteous cause and you have to be there, you will find the strength and protection. It’s like classic example. I was living, I eventually was living out of my car.

I was homeless of saving up the few bucks I had a week to see my children, you know, um, and I have 20 bucks left. I’m walking down the street, Hastings street. It’s that poor part of Vancouver where I did a lot of our work. And there’s an entire homeless family just sitting on the sidewalk. Okay.

A native family. Nothing. So hell, they needed the 20 bucks more than I did, so I give it to them there. All right? Uh, about an hour later, I’m walking down the street and there’s another 20 line on at my feet. Right? It happens that way. That’s just one example. But whenever I would go out on a limb, it just keep going.

Boom. There’s support. Support comes You have that, but the more you think about yourself, the less us there. You’ve gotta be focused on what’s right, what other people need. And I kept thinking, I am not going to let these bastards get away with this. Right? They’re not going to get away with this.

Again, I just won’t. Every day I had to live with that resolve. And after awhile you just find there’s a different. there’s a different identity that grows up in you and certainly not the way that I was 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. You change. I mean, we all change over, liked him. We have many lives, if we’re on the right path, I think.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:42:59] what was it like sitting with an, experiencing the pain of others, because I think that’s something else that. We’re really going to be honest, most of us shield ourselves from you didn’t. So those even early on, those people who came up in bore witness on the pulpit that had to crush your soul,

you continue to put yourself in those situations where most of us would just go, you know, I don’t want to really hear about that. And then when it comes to satanic ritual abuse, I got, I don’t want to hear about that.

I’m sure that doesn’t exist because I can’t even imagine that. And then like you said, Oh, I can imagine, Oh, some less than human person, but really a nice. Kid, just like my kid that’s happening too in some part of, uh, Vancouver, Washington, wherever, Southern California. I don’t even want to go there.

And you go there over and over again

Kevin Annett: [00:43:54] I was about to say that, um, when I was in the church and people would get up and speak from the puppet, it shocked me, but it didn’t rock my world yet because it was still obstruct.

It’s only when I lost my own children and I saw how the church brutally kicked my children from me. Dan began to be open. Does the fact that they might have hurt other. The critical children because I saw what they did to my own children than me. So you need a personal experience to hang it on, right?

And then your heart opens up. So I was able to relate to their pain because I was going through the same pain. And what was it like not to see my kids every day and, and to be vilified and attacked and impoverished. And it’s like, just because I was talking about things they did, you know, that the perpetrators didn’t want to have heard.

Right. So you need that personal experience to go into, to get developed. Real empathy.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:44:42] Right. What about beyond that because you’ve gone much further. I mentioned satanic ritual abuse, which immediately is going to shut a lot of people down because they’ve been conditioned to think that that can’t possibly be true.

It’s satanic panic. It’s all the rest of this stuff that if anyone investigates, I find that it’s, that’s not the case, that it is a reality. How do you get there? You haven’t experienced that. You haven’t. Oh, well, but, but you’ve somehow opened yourself up to that and incorporated that in. But I’m particularly interested in how you understand that spiritually and I mean spiritually in the broadest terms of who you are.

Kevin Annett: [00:45:26] Well, I’ve had experienced, when I was a minister in port Alberni, I took part in an exorcism and then I conducted other ones. I’ve done three in total, and, um, including one outside them about him 10 years ago now. Um, and now what’s interesting about that, as I had. I had it, I came face to face with something and it’s very difficult to try to put it into words, but it confirmed me with the reality of this, this evil.

Um. And how it operates through people, how it subverts and controls people, and just have all the time to try to, dude, I tall lips, right? And how we need, it’d be very self aware and vigilant all the time, especially when you’re doing this frontline work. Right? So, um, that helped, you know, to have had that experience.

But ultimately there’s nothing. How can you even imagine. You know these, these verified accounts of ceremonies where children are originally raped, a tortured popped up and cannibalized. That’s part of the ceremony when there’s a strong similarity between the black mass state, tannic mass and the Catholic mass because it’s believed in both rituals that you are literally eating flesh and blood.

Whether it’s the flesh and blood of Christ or the flesh and blood of an innocent child, that flesh and blood will redeem you somehow. So it’s a, it’s not a big stretch to go from one to the other. And that’s why so many, she at 10 of rituals tend to be held in Catholic churches. It’s the same energy, ah, of, of predatory vampire prism.


Alex Tsakiris: [00:47:02] How do you understand that? How do you understand evil? So here’s my thing. Like, so you were confronted. An entity in this extended consciousness realm that you had identified with being evil. Right? So we get that. We’ve heard that too many times to ignore it, but you are a spirit. Do you accept that you are spiritual beings as well?

I mean, okay. And that there’s a greater part of your spirit that isn’t in that same realm at the same time that you’re down here. Maybe that’s too much of a stretch, but I guess what I’m trying to understand is. How do you reconcile that with the light, with, um, what you’re here to do with positive things?

I always have a problem with trying to wrap my arms around the evil thing and truly, really try and understand it. And I always put it in this as below, so above, you know, if we want to find the evil. You found it all over the place down here, and the fact that you found it at the Vatican when you did the exorcism is further confirmation of this as below, so above.

Now you’ve spoken to how to transcend that, but I was wondering if you have any more thoughts on what is your personal understanding of how your supposed to. Grow in the face of that kind of evil. Why is it there for you? What? What is it for you too? How are you supposed to transcend that?

Kevin Annett: [00:48:40] Well, don’t forget that we re we were raised in a culture where we oppose light and darkness all the time, and we tend to project our own shadow or on light onto, Oh, okay.

And we have to be aware of that. And the reality is light and darkness and part of the same phenomenon, good and evil are part of God. And the reality is that, you know, there’s day and then there’s nights. We’re not afraid of the night unless you’re just a child and you don’t know any better, um, that evil.

For example, men who did this to me, who took my children from me, who were, uh, destroyed my name publicly, who prevented me from working all of this stuff. I was tempted to hate them for the hypocrisy and the evil of what they had done. and then I realized that, wait a minute, it’s because of them that I’m in my situation now.

Um, the, the evil people are, are we need allies. Uh, you know, uh, in a Tibetan book of the dead, they say, uh, be thankful for your enemy. He shows you who you are. And it’s true. There’s this kind of dance we do where, um, we are sharpened. We are made clear by our interaction with what we call evil.

Okay. And so I, it’s not so much, I see it as an enemy, but a different aspect of, of humanity be that if it’s out of balance. It can cause massive destruction. Um, no, I don’t want to attribute, I don’t want to make it too abstract, because in practice, the evil people do is horrible. Especially when the same to children.

There is a force that operates through us that seeks our own destruction that Steve started to basement on our corruption. I believe that, and there’s also that force in us that’s resistant, that is rising, that encourages us to rise up to our true hire herself. Right. And that’s a war inside of result, right?

I mean, we’re, we’re all facing that, that those two forces all the time. I think it’s a matter of knowing how they can also assist each other. And, um, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s something that everyone has experienced in their own way, but, um, it isn’t that the whole notion that were good in their bed, that’s what’s causing a lot of problems in the world because, um, Well, you know, like I got a, my, my grandmother gave me a poem on when I was really little and it said, um, there’s so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us.

That is, that isn’t right for any of us to think better than Uh, the rest of us. You know what

Alex Tsakiris: [00:51:06] I mean? No, I do not. I didn’t know what you mean. And I think that you did a nice job there of saying w kind of articulating the struggle that we all face because we do have to take a stand and say there is a moral imperative.

There is a good, there is a right or wrong. There is no kind of, morality isn’t just an abstraction cause we all will experience that. In our own heart, we know what’s right. We know what’s wrong. Even if we understand that we don’t always make the right decisions and none of us do. So yeah.

Kevin Annett: [00:51:38] It’s like an example too is like at P at deathbeds, right?

When people are dying, think, is death evil? No. It’s part of life. It’s a normal process. And yet how people relate to it, like I saw this all the time in port Alberni when native families have a death. Everyone would mourn. That’d be that all the families would get together. They’d be screaming.

That’d be willing, and then it was okay. Right. You bring in a white family and they’re all in denial. They’re saying, you’ll be up on around next week, sister. Like I was with a

Alex Tsakiris: [00:52:08] family who’s

Kevin Annett: [00:52:10] the, the mother was dying of liver cancer. She was only in her thirties yeah. That her husband was saying, don’t worry, you’ll be up and around.

The prognosis is good. I said, no, you’ve got to tell her the truth. That’s the end. You’ve got to say goodbye, and they hated me for saying that. They wouldn’t talk to me after. Because that, you know, they felt that hurt them by telling the truth. It’s kinda like now what I do with all the candidates in the world, right?

They hate the truth teller when there’s so much pain, but at some point they have to accept that it’s over. And I used that as a metaphor for like the work we all do because yeah, our society is over. I mean this society like think it’s coming down in many ways and we have to look at that except that death, that’s not an evil thing.

That’s is necessary if we’re going to Allie transform and go beyond it, right?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:52:52] Yeah. I’m not so sure. And we could get off on, on that whole thing. And I, I think that there’s, there is. Another side of that, in the same way that we’ve talked about co conspiracy and how things get co-opted, and I’m always very suspicious of all the messages out there, but the, the death cult, uh, environmentalism thing, I think is kind of a misstep.

The end of the world thing, I think is kind of a misstep. The collapse of society, I think is kind of a misstep. I am totally energized by your activism and your ability to kind of continue to. To carry on and the way that you do, but I don’t necessarily have to sign up for a, for all the rest of that stuff.


Kevin Annett: [00:53:37] that’s okay. I didn’t mean, I wasn’t trying to say an end to world scenario. I’m just saying that is clear to me everyday on the ground that the society that produced this genocide yeah. It can’t sustain itself because it’s, yeah. So, um, it’s so soulless and so corrupt. That there’s gotta be this other, and I see this other force rising all the time to replace it.

It’s this dance going on. Right. And we have to stand on the sun coming up. Absolutely. Yeah. But we also have to let go of what needs to fall. And that’s hard for people because we all have a vested interest in the system to some degree. So I mean, it’s, it’s a dance, right?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:15] It is a dance. I do think it helps, and that’s one of the things I like about your work and even when we talk about some of these extreme things that people are going to have a really hard time accepting, like I said, a ritual, satanic abuse kind of thing.

We’ll talk about the pedal Pope in a minute. People just can’t go there. But that’s why I think you have to go, because the other thing you’re saying is, is so gray and people can have legitimate differences of opinion about it. Like whether you tell someone, you know, my wife who is a forensic psychologist, was just sharing with me a story.

I think she had watched in this documentary. This is kind of the opposite of your story. She said in, in Japan. If they receive news from a medical doctor, that aunt Jenny is a, is dying, they would never tell that person. Now, never tell that person. And as a matter of fact, they would kind of orchestrate this myth around it of just, no, no, everything’s going to be okay.

And sometimes things are okay, and sometimes you can justify that maybe there’s some kind of placebo effect going on there too. Or maybe that’s in. The hands of some force that’s beyond us to reinforce what is sometimes a very hokey and corrupt medical system that is very much into this mechanized idea that we have figured out all the stats on your entire thing too.

So all that’s a gray area. What is isn’t a gray area to me is pedal Pope. You’ve done an unbelievable job of documenting. Ongoing. So that’s wanting to be at one of the things I want people to understand about your work, and if they go to murder by they’ll find your ongoing investigations of things that are happening today, 2019 and again, you are a living history to connect those with this conspiracy that you’ve now at this point.

Completely documented in a way that is kind of undeniable, and you show that it’s even acknowledged, quote unquote, acknowledge. That’s an important history because you stand there saying all of that. So let’s talk a little bit about the, the, the pedo Pope because you have some new work on that that I wasn’t aware of that I think is very important.

You can start anywhere you want and talk about what you know about the Pope, but a lot of other people don’t.

Kevin Annett: [00:56:43] Two things. Uh, first it should be pluralized. It’s not one, it’s hopes.

Okay. Hello. The word itself. You see, we all know about programming for words, and, um, then we’re pedophile means friend of children. Right? Every time you use ad words designed to minimize and make it seem benign, it what it is. You know, children, right. This child and kill it. Um, but anyway, that’s, no,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:57:14] no, no, no, no.

Let’s, let’s, that’s, you’re, you’re spot on. And I think you’ve made that point in other cases of language is super important. Softening, uh, co-opting language is super important. Okay. I didn’t mean to diminish it. Of course. I also wanted, we also have to add a little bit of. Lightness to this if we win, if we can, to kind of drive it into people.

But you’re right, it’s the, the rape, torture, murder, exploitation in film, uh, that they do, they snuff films and all that. So it’s the worst of the worst.

Kevin Annett: [00:57:49] Yeah. Well, I mean, if you’re talking about the president guy in Rome, right? able to go to Leo. Sure. Um, well, he was brought in to suspend doctor after we first are asking her to resign in 2013.

Um, you know, his history is horrible. If you look into what he did as an Archbishop in Argentina during the dirty Wars, um, public relations guy for the hometown, uh, turning a blind eye when his own priests were being tortured to death trafficking, children of political prisoners, which is an old.

Practicing the Catholic church they did in Franco, Spain. Um, for a lot of money and his involvement with the ninth circle satanic cult, which is being attested to by eyewitnesses who were there, including people sources within the Dutch Royal family because present queen of the Netherlands, Maxime Mazariegos an old friend of his, she’s from Argentina.

Her father was in the hotel. Um, according to Ellis stir, who’s a journalist in the Netherlands, he’s been working in our network. She found out that Baguio and her had been in a relationship for some years and, uh, she’d been paying him money for a number of years, you know, the Argentine bank account now.

Um, in other words, this guy’s just as dirty as all his predecessors, but he’s got the public relations, smiley Pope image. But it’s funny how the mass slips with these guys. I can remember he was in America a few years ago. and all of the time that he’s posing as this nice liberal, progressive Pope.

Um, he goes out to, uh, gives a talk about Judah Parasara, who was a Franciscan missionary, who personally worked at death, thousands of Indians on this plantation in California. And polio. Turns out he has a VF vacation ceremony. He makes this guy’s st.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:59:32] and he says, we’re

Kevin Annett: [00:59:33] inspired by his zeal in killing off thousands of non-believers.

So even with the liberal element in the church, they still believe they all align. That you should kill off nonbelievers. That is, they’re not human beings until we can become baptized. They’re farther cannon fodder for our, we want. Right? And it’s, it’s endemic in, in the, in the mindset. So the appearance, the hand puppet is one thing, but the reality is the same.

It’s the same entity. Right. And, um, and that’s kind of how I approached this whole thing of, well, it doesn’t, one element in the church that’s bad. It’s the nature of the beast to be doing this. Right. These crimes against children.


Alex Tsakiris: [01:00:12] Well, I think we need to speak to all of that in a couple of ways. I mean one, from the beginning, it’s always been about control first and foremost, and then all evil kind of springs forth from that. But it’s controlling people. Then I think we’ve already talked about the Christ consciousness that you’re not averse to the idea that there is a light that somehow shines through all this and that Christians who find a spiritual awakening in themselves and then associate that with their religion. That’s not a problem, but it may not be the source of it either, if you know what I mean. So people do have genuine spiritual, transformative experiences inside of the Christian Church. I think what you’re saying, or let me just say what I’m saying, but that doesn’t mean that the organization isn’t fundamentally corrupt and fundamentally serving a different purpose than what most people think it is.

That’s the only way I can understand the dichotomy what we see, because there are good people in the church. There are people of a good heart. There are people that are trying to listen to the voice inside their head that wants them to do good. Maybe you want to speak to that a little bit since I gave a little rant there.

Kevin Annett: [01:01:39] Well, there were good Germans too. If you want to look at them individually, in isolation from the collective that they’re part of, yeah, there are good people all over the place, but if you step back and look at…

Alex Tsakiris: [01:01:52] I’m saying something different though, I’d like to hear you just comment on this. Do you believe that people have spiritually transformative experiences, and do you believe that those spiritually transformative experiences can be through a spiritual being that they understand to be Christ? And the reason I say it that way, the reason I question it is, you know, I’ve done 50 shows on near-death experience, where people not only say they had this experience, but their life is witness to that. Their life changes in dramatic ways, and they do things and all the rest of that. So is that real?

Kevin Annett: [01:02:25] Well, I can’t judge and I can’t look into another person’s soul and say, you know, I know what they’re going through. I don’t have the religious belief that one person can do that for another. But put it this way, Frederick Douglass, the slave, he led the abolitionist movement. In his biography he describes how his slave master had a religious conversion, became a Methodist, a born again, Methodist. So he expected the slave master to then release all the slaves and no, he became even more brutal, because he had gone on this side. And if you have a genuine spiritual thing, why do you need a church? Why do you need a religion to express it? You don’t. It’s the kingdom of heaven is within you or it isn’t. And if it’s within you, you don’t need to express it on Sunday in the church, right?  

Alex Tsakiris: [01:03:13] True. I mean look, I’m not a Christian, I’m not religious, so I’m kind of playing devil’s advocate here, but I do encounter a lot of people who, when they encounter this information, the kind of information you’re talking about, are confronted with the kind of impossible option of turning their back on a tradition that is so interwoven in their family and they just can’t do it. And I do have some empathy for them that they have a real experience there, that they’re trying to understand it, and it might take them a while to do it.

Kevin Annett: [01:03:52] I’d been a minister, I’ve worked in, in churches, I know exactly what you’re talking about. The majority of my parishioners were there because it’s a social club, it’s a way to reassure it, they’ve always done it, it’s a sentimental family kind of thing to do. Okay, that’s fine, like a social club, fine. And Christianity, belief in Christ, tends to get in the way of that, because [experiential 01:04:17] calling is very personal and it’s not part of a group. The old Sandy Quakers have the same God, gets lost in a crowd and I think that that’s true.

So no, I don’t believe, the idea that religion is an imperial idea, that everybody has to have one belief, that’s coming out of the Roman Empire originally. The Catholic Church is an expression of the Roman Empire, even the terms used for Popes, it’s terms for the old emperors, Pontifex Maximus, you know, like all of this stuff.

So there’s a history there, but it boils down to the simple moral and legal fact, that if you’re part of an institution that’s committing crime, it doesn’t matter what your spiritual beliefs are, you’re part of a crime. You’re putting money in a collection plate, you’re associated with them, you’re an accessory to a crime. So we say to people, “What does that have to do with the spiritual calling? You can’t be part of that if you’re a moral person. Forget about spirituality, let’s just talk about morality and ethics. Are you really going to be associated with these churches that have centuries of blood on their hands and they’re still doing these crimes?” I mean, I don’t think any moral person would do that, so to me it boils down to that, not spirituality. Right?

Alex Tsakiris: [01:05:27] I think you’re right, Kevin. I think you’re 100% right. Do you want to speak to the idea that this is a problem that’s been concentrated in the Catholic or limited to Catholicism and those darn Catholics and that stupid Pope? You know that’s not true from your personal experience, but where does it go? Why do all of the religions…? You  have some great stuff on the Mormons. When I say great, of course, I mean horrific.

And again, just so people know. So I started reading some of your stuff on the Mormons and I go, “I’ve got to fact check this guy, I’ve got to fact check this guy. He’s probably going too far.” And again, it takes 15 minutes and the sexual abuse trials in Bountiful, Utah, that directly connect the current profit, leader of the Mormon Church, with the worst kind of, worst kind of crimes against children. Again, same kind of stuff; rape, torture, murder, all that kind of stuff, it’s there. We can’t draw the lines completely, but we’ve all seen the stories, seen the connections too, too many times now, that the burden of proof is on those folks to show that those connections don’t lead where they seem to.

I went on and on there, this isn’t just about Catholicism, right?

Kevin Annett: [01:06:53] No, I mean, it was a source of a lot of this stuff. Catholicism means universal, and that’s why I don’t like to use the term. I mean, it’s part of the mindset of empire.  But yeah, a lot of this stuff started in Rome and was replicated by others. There’s a strong connection between the Mormon Church and the Church of Rome. They’ve even opened a Mormon Temple, not far from the Vatican now, and we believe the Ninth Circle Rituals are going on there. We have eyewitnesses who brought children, who saw children being brought in from Macedonia in September and never came out again, in that Mormon Temple in Rome. So we know that stuff is going on, likely.

And on my shows, on the BBS radio, if you go back in the archives, you’ll see two interviews with insiders who were there in the ritual killings under the temple in Salt Lake City, and even more horrible stuff, what they did to people.

But the reality is, no, it isn’t just the Church of Rome, but whenever, however it expresses itself it’s coming from the same spirit, which is of domination and control.

It’s interesting, the Mormon Church, I believe, was set up as a social engineering project. The FBI and the CIA recruit disproportionately out of Mormons. When you talk to the people there, the mentality, the control they have over people is unbelievable. They all have to wear a certain underwear, I don’t know if you know this. It’s like the Mormon underwear, and they believe if you take it off, you’re damned. It’s like it’s so controlled, the thinking. You don’t have to trace it that far to see the link between the MKUltra mind control experiments in the 50s, the strong ties they had with various religions, in not only getting test subjects, children for these programs within churches, because religions are prone to this. People have handed over their judgement and authority to another figure. Somebody knows better than them. They defer themselves. They live in a precarious condition where somebody is thinking for them and is the one to make the judgements, not themselves. So it’s like a slave culture and a culture of silence, and that’s why it’s hard for these stories to come out.

But that’s the problem. The most obvious example of it has been coming out of Roman hands for many centuries, but it’s really that spirit, which is degradation of the human soul really. It’s designed to captivate and enslave humanity, I believe, from on the ground.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:09:29] You know, as we kind of move towards wrapping things up, you just said a lot of really very important things in my world, kind of that I wonder about, and that is, it’s almost like you sketched out these two ladders that are leaned up against these two evil walls. And one ladder is a ladder that we kind of understand, it’s climbing the wall of dominance, control, empire in a way that, hey, we have to be protected against whoever, and the Huns that are going to march over the hill. And there’s a reality to that because that is our history as well. Whatever that reality is, we all acknowledge that there’s a reality to the fact that we give up some of our rights to our government in order for protection. I don’t want to go too far with that because we could tear that apart.

But there’s another ladder and it’s leaning against the completely different wall, and it’s the wall that you’re alluding to, when you talk about the entity, maybe that you encountered in your exorcisms, or the entity that wants things for reasons that really don’t make any other sense in that they just move us in some dark ways that we totally don’t understand.

And then we have the intersection of those. The MKUltra, the impossible kind of, you know, how can you do those crimes? It’s like the holocaust thing. How did we do those crimes? How did human beings do those crimes?

So what is that relationship between those two forces, one that we understand or we think we understand and one that is beyond our grasp for the most part?

Kevin Annett: [01:11:18] It’s a mystery to some degree. It’s like when you encounter real goodness and real evil, they’re not describable, they can only be experienced. And then, there’s a mystery around them, there’s an ambiguity. Okay, when you’re in love, you can’t describe it to somebody, it’s there. It’s life giving, it’s beautiful, there’s nothing like it, right?

Similarly when you’re encountering, when you’re in the depths of despair brought about by this evil, there’s no way to understand it. You can’t understand these things, it’s beyond an understanding, but the heart has its own understanding and ultimately our minds can deceive us because they’re conditioned, they’re programmed, they’re influenced, but our heart doesn’t. The consciousness within our heart and soul doesn’t ever betray us. And that’s why I say to people, before you start with this work, you’ve got to do your own personal work and every day go there, because it’s your only defense against what you’re going to go up against. And I find that all of the time you have to do that.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:12:24] Do you want to speak to that for a minute? What is your practice? How do you go there? How do you open that heart? You’re a man in the Western culture, which we’re kind of programmed from the beginning to keep that damn thing closed. And then you’ve had to endure this kind of ongoing, you know, you referenced Sun Tzu a lot, you’re a warrior man, the ultimate truth seeker warrior, and now you’re speaking that you need to kind of take off your armor and open your heart as part of your just being, your spiritual path. How do you do that?

Kevin Annett: [01:13:03] I sit in nature, I sit by running water, I just remember who I was as a little boy, running around in love with everyone in the world. I mean, we go back to our innocence, right?

When I lost my kids, I’d see them now and then, but I’d drop them off on Sunday night and it was a very bad time for me when I’d dropped them off. So all I’d do is get on the bus and I’d ride around and be with people, and we have that commonality.

You know, I often to say to people, there’s more generic variation in one troop of chimpanzees that the entire human race. We’re that close, we’re really the expression of that one soul, and you feel that, when you’re in great grief you go to people. You hang out with them, you just absorb their energy and watch the way they are and you take great solace in that. So we don’t isolate, I say to people, the last thing you want to do is isolate in a room, isolate in a life, thinking that a counselor is going to help you.

When I tell that famous story of William Coombes, the native who, when we occupied the church, he was there with us, even though it was torture. He heard the chant of a church bell and he started getting sick, because of the way he’d been tortured in these places. There he is in the church with us, the day we occupied it, and he was really happy, he was handing out flyers to people and he had no fear, he wasn’t afraid of these priests. And he said, “I didn’t want to let you guys down, I didn’t want to be left out.” Now that love, that desire to be with us, we did that, we helped heal him that day, not some counselor, but all of us together showing, we’re not afraid of these people. We’re not afraid of the truth, we’re going to stand here and help and love each other in practice, where it counts. And he stopped drinking that week, which was a bloody miracle, if you knew his situation.

But we did that miracle together and to me, you reconnect with that common blood heartbeat and you find that nature everywhere.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:15:03] Kevin, it’s amazing. Your work is amazing on Again, is the place for people to go to stay up to date. You can not only check out the book and order the book, but it’s updated constantly with new goings on.

And I love your show, Here We Stand on BBS Radio. Lots of good stuff. Not a lot of filler, just like hidden with more and more stuff, new stuff all of the time.

And then I do hope people check out Unrepentant and good to know that there’s a follow up to that.

What else can you tell people about in terms of what’s coming up for you?

Kevin Annett: [01:15:39] Well, I’m just finishing off, we’ve been part of an election campaign in Canada to put forward the idea of a republic, which a majority of Canadians like. They want an end to the ties with the British Crown and that. So there has been that occupying me. But come the new year, we’re starting a whole new campaign. I’ll be on the road, not just speaking to groups but actually connecting, training workshops in common law. Especially in the States, we actually have our biggest support in America. Because people already get this idea to a large degree, you’re raised with the idea that you’re sovereign citizens, your republic, you’re not some subject somewhere.

So, I’ll be in the States. If people want to reach me it’s

I’d love to do another interview with you, you’re a great interviewer, getting into the marrow of stuff, which I really love. So thank you Alex, I appreciate it.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:16:37] Well, that’s nice of you to say. I feel like, you know, on some of these shows I get over excited and that’s how it is. I’ve been diving into your stuff and I struggle with how to present it because I think it’s so important and I’m such a fan of you as a person, and I just think there’s a million stories that you have to tell. It’s just been great having you on and I appreciate your time.

Kevin Annett: [01:17:03] Thank you again, we’ll talk more.

Thanks again to Kevin Annett for joining me today on Skeptiko. The one question I’d have to tee up from this interview is, do you think Kevin’s story is true? I mean, this is just another podcast, 400 and whatever in the series. Is this possibly true mass murder of Indian kids in these schools, that they forced them into satanic ritual, abuse, long-standing in the church and going on today? Collusion between church and state in order to commit crimes against children and crimes in general? This is a broad reaching conspiracy that would seem to reach every part of society and culture. Could this possibly be true?

Let me know what you think to that question and please let me know if you have any other information I should know about. I say this all of the time, but you guys, you listeners of Skeptiko have been the source of everything that I know on this show. So we have to keep that system going, and the best way for you to do it is to connect with me, comment about the show, join the Skeptiko Forum, which you’ll find from the Skeptiko website and let your voice be heard there and share your ideas with other people.

This show was very important to me, very meaningful in so many ways, and I’m so grateful to Kevin and the work he’s doing. If you found this show important, please share it with anyone else you think needs to hear about this. Like I always say, this show reaches the people it’s supposed to reach. So if you want to be part of that process, I certainly invite you to do that.

I have a number of interesting, interesting shows coming up. Please stay with me for all of that. Until next time, take care and bye for now. [box]

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