Julie Beischel, Love Beyond Death |598|

Dr. Julie Beischel… After death communication… Controlled medium experiments… How to talk to dead loved ones.


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skeptiko-598-Julie-Beischel — 37.40

[00:00:00] Alex Tsakiris: a show about connecting with the other side

[00:00:07] Clip: Someone close to you has passed away. Yes. This person, your brother,

Hello, chase. don’t leave me. I don’t wanna be here without you. He’s here. He, he says, if you’re worried about being on your own, don’t be. You’re not because he is you and you are him.

[00:00:28] Alex Tsakiris: And wouldn’t, you know, it loves getting in the way again

[00:00:33] Dr. Julie Beischel: I have so much trouble saying it cuz I sound like a hippie. But like, it’s all about love. It’s, I hate saying it, but that’s where the data point. So that’s what we gotta do. So if you wanna hear from your deceased loved ones, like you gotta do love.

[00:00:47] Alex Tsakiris: The first clip was from them, who we hear rafter. And that was Matt Damon. And the second was from today’s guest. Dr. Julie , who is.

Probably the world’s leading researcher on after death communication science. Yes. Science.

If you listened to this show while you know, this is really kind of a heart and soul of skeptical kind of show. I hope you enjoy it.

Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality. I’m joined today by Dr. Julie Boal. Dr. Boal has a new book out.

The new book is titled Love in the Afterlife, how to Stay Connected With Your Human and Animal Loved Ones. I’ve pulled it up here on Amazon.

It is great to have you back. I’ve known Julie for a long time. Been a huge fan of her. Just super important work. Julie, welcome. Thanks for joining

[00:01:38] Dr. Julie Beischel: me. Thanks so much for having me. I’ve been, , social distancing for three years now, so it’s a wonderful opportunity to put on a clean shirt and earrings, so thank you for having me.

[00:01:48] Alex Tsakiris: Are you kidding? This is such, well, I don’t know. We can all get, I can, I can, I enjoy my social distancing very much so I, I hold to that very strongly, , for those of you who don’t know, who haven’t been around Skeptiko for years and years, you may not know. Julie is really, we can dance around it. Probably the foremost authority in the world on after death communication, at least the scientific authority.

You know, PhD publishes, peer reviewed papers, writes books, goes to conferences. and I was just thinking about this as we’re putting this together, what a cool thing. I would love to be the foremost authority in the world on almost anything, let alone probably one of the most fundamental questions in science, even though it’s ignored by science, which is, hey, can you really talk to dead people?

So I think that’s kind of cool. Do you ever think about

[00:02:42] Dr. Julie Beischel: that? Yeah, there’s no question that affects more people than what happens when we die. And so it is not, it is, it is applicable to everyone. This is a really important topic, but because of the current scientific paradigm, scientific materialism, which states that it hypothesizes, it’s just a theory that the brain makes consciousness because that’s the dominant paradigm.

It’s like not allowed to even consider the possibility that consciousness is something different and is only channeled by the brain, funneled by the brain, not made by the brain.

[00:03:26] Alex Tsakiris: Right? And so, you know, there’s so many ways that we can approach this. I thought we should start with the book because the book is new and the book is interesting . A lot of people make their way to after death communication, through grief, through bereavement and . That’s really even your story way back in the day. And that’s, I think where this book is coming at, coming at it from too, is that people may come across this from that very unfortunate kind of life circumstance.

Do, do you wanna speak to that both personally and from the standpoint of a author putting together a book?

[00:04:06] Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah. Thank you. . , I’ve been in this field for 20 years. And I collected all this data with mediums under blinded conditions. Quintuple, blinding, where there’s five levels of blinding, nobody knows anything.

It can’t possibly be cold reading, it can’t be queuing and published out in 2015. Um, I now work at the Win Bridge Research Center. We’re a charity and we offer all this free educational material, fact sheets and whatever, where often, uh, peer review journals are behind a paywall. So this is now you have free access to this information summarizing it.

If you’re not a scientist, then I’ve, uh, changed the language so that you can understand it if you’re a regular person. And 20 years, I’m like, I’ve done a lot, but I don’t think it’s helping people on the ground the way I would like it to. So our most recent study that was published, um, We did a blinded study and with 10, uh, wind bridge certified research medium.

So if the medium’s on my team, they’ve gone through an extensive training, screening certification procedure and, um, demonstrated their abilities under control conditions. And so 10 of them participated in two readings. One, uh, they were given the first name of a living person. One, they were given the name of a deceased person.

They didn’t know which was which. They didn’t even know they were gonna get one of each. They were instructed, um, you might get two deceased people, two living people. Um, and they did we, and then, so we gave them a name and then we said, what did the person, what does the person look like? Uh, what are their.

What’s their personality characteristics? What, how do they spend their time? And then after each reading, they filled out a standardized questionnaire called the Phenomenology of Consciousness Inventory, which quantifies 26 different dimensions of consciousness. So it, it tracks things like memory, like in a mediumship reading.

. , the, when it’s over the medium doesn’t necessarily remember everything that they said. Their sense of time is like a little skewed when I go, okay, your 15 minutes is up. They’re surprised. Like, so it quantifies all these different things. And we thought, well, they’re both psychic phenomena, so they’re gonna look similar.

And they did. They’re both much different than a, than normal waking consciousness. But how do they differ from each other? And the one thing of 26 different dimensions of consciousness, the one thing that was different, they experienced statistically more love. When they were reading for a dead person under blinded conditions, then a living person.

And that matches their reports, their phenomenology. They talk about love when they talk about mediumship readings. And, but you know, I’m a hard scientist, and I was like, love that sounds so woo woo. It’s, oh, I don’t want, I don’t, I, I wish it didn’t happen like that, but I gotta follow up the data. I’m a good scientist.

And so I was like, well, let’s, let me look into this and wouldn’t you know it, that’s a really common theme in all kinds of afterlife topics, like near death experiences. The word love is in there more often than the tunnel or the light. That’s how ubiquitous love is in the afterlife. So I was like, I gotta follow the data.

I gotta get this to the people. And so I wrote this book about the, the evidence from controlled science. Controlled research for love in the answer life. It’s all there. In all, just not just mediumship, near death experiences, end of life experiences. So that was the purpose of this book

[00:07:54] Alex Tsakiris: . Hey man, that’s awesome. And that’s like kind of the full furnace blast of uh, uh, Dr. Julie Baisil research. And there’s so many things to pick apart there to kinda lay out. And, and I think we do need to recover ground that you cover all the time I’m just gonna let this play in the background because the words really don’t mean anything, but someone can read the title. , the Bizarre World of Fake Psychics, faith Healers, and Mediums. And I, I guess the point that I want to make is there still is this lingering doubt about mediums, about after death communication and how it’s all fake.

, when you first came into this, you. Decided that you could approach this scientifically and you could control for this, and in some ways you could control for it relatively easily.

[00:08:47] Dr. Julie Beischel: Reading. Okay, so how we control for it, how we address it in the laboratory.

We wanna make sure two things are in play an optimal environment. Cuz if you’re like, oh, we’re gonna hold her underwater and she couldn’t do it, that means it’s all fake. No, that’s, you have to have an optimal envi, uh, experimental environment. You have to, you have to mimic the real world. Uh, exa like a real world reading as close as possible.

But then two, you have to maximize controls, so you have to address anything. Normal that it could be. So when we do, uh, when I do readings, it’s, it’s the medium and me on the phone. I serve as what’s called a proxy sitter. So the living person who wants to have a reading, they’re, this is called the sitter.

So I serve as the proxy sitter. Um, for the absence sitter who wants to hear from their deceased loved one. So the medium and I are on the phone. All we have is the first name of a deceased person. And then I ask them specific questions, what did the person look like? How did they die? What is their personality?

[00:09:52] Alex Tsakiris: . And Julie, when you say that’s all you have, that is all you have, . . So I just wanna make sure we understand when you say blinded, you know, someone else . Has selected that person, and you do not know who that person is.

[00:10:05] Dr. Julie Beischel: Correct. That’s correct. So then we do it a second time with a different name. Again, I don’t know anything. We do it all again. Then we tr I transcribe the two readings into itemized list. Then the absent sitters receive those two readings. Um, but they each receive both of them and they don’t know which was intended for their person.

They don’t know, um, which is theirs. And so that controls for, uh, rate bias. Like some people have the tendency to give the medium the benefit of the doubt and score everything as correct. And some people have, don’t wanna give the medium any room and score everything as incorrect. So when you have two, your bias equalizes cross.

So, so we look at a number of mediums. Um, and so we’ve eliminated rate bias hold reading cuz there’s no way, uh, a medium, the medium can get anything from me cuz I don’t know anything. Um, hot reading, they can’t look anything up. We, there’s, they, uh, um, they’re blind into any information besides the name. Um, and so all of these things that someone can go, oh, it’s just this, oh, they’re reading cues.

They look the person up on Google, on Facebook, they, no, none of those things are even possible,

[00:11:28] Alex Tsakiris: I just heard an interview, . , recently with a hypnotist and I almost was tempted to kind of talk to these people, but it’s pointless. They, they just don’t know what they’re talking about.

And he says, I do fake medium readings. And he gives an example. He goes, here’s how I do it. You know, when I’d ask you, and I’d say, what isn’t it? This, isn’t it that? And I’m just sitting there and going, oh, I’d love to have this person on the phone. And, and I do . , . , . , . , uh, win bridge. Dr. Bal, uh, reading where I’d be, okay, here’s the name, James.

Go. Well, what about this? And then I, I don’t know, alls I have is the name It’s impossible at that point for anyone to do any cold reading .

[00:12:04] Dr. Julie Beischel: Also we ask the mix medium to answer specific questions so that you have to say what the person look like. What’s their personality, how do they die? What specific message do they have for the sitter? And the, so that can, that providing information, so general, it can apply to a lot of people.

That’s another form of cold reading. So that’s controlled for, . ,

[00:12:23] Alex Tsakiris: . , I’m so glad you mentioned that. . . , and I’ve heard you say this before, even if it is genuinely important and valuable information to the person who’s getting the reading, cuz later on they get the full thing and they go, oh wow, that was so meaningful.

It might be something that Weybridge said, you know, I, I’m sure it was, but we didn’t include it in cuz it wasn’t specific in our criteria. You’re even more picky a lot of times than the, than the actual client who’s getting the reading, right? Is

[00:12:52] Dr. Julie Beischel: that correct? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because if they, if they mention, you know, like if I give them the name, And it’s Charles and they’re like, oh, I’m seeing the, the Charles in Charge TV show from the eighties.

I go, I can’t put that cuz that will give away which reading has the name Charles in it. So I, I blind the readings. So the crick doesn’t have any information about which thing is which, which reading is theirs. So, um, and you know, the, the Skeptiko community will say, oh, well you can look up a lot of actuarial tables and figure out, well, someone named Charles probably was born in this time and so they probably died in this time.

Okay, prove it. Prove it that that’s what a medium is doing. Prove it and show your work. Show where you looked it up. Cuz anybody can be a medium. You could get the, you could get the name Charles and like get, Charles could wanna get to the sitter and wanna talk to you. So you can’t j you have to prove your work.

You have to prove where you can find that information. How did Charles die? Maybe that’s in the actuarial tables. Mostly it’s cancer. No, no, not this. Charles. What did he look like? What was his personality? What were his specific messages for the sitter? Remember when we went to that pizza place that one time, you’re gonna get that in your actuarial tables.


[00:14:10] Alex Tsakiris: don’t think so. . So it, it, peeves me, and maybe we’ll . Talk about this later on in terms of, . , the push that science still has to kind of deny this because I, I think it, it does crop up and it crops up in terms of where, . , wind bridge is at where you are at in this 20 years and where you thought you might be.

I mean, I certainly, you know, I’ve known you for a long time. Your research was so really monumental, , . . And there were a lot of people early on saying, this is it. This cracks the code gold standard for, . , proving this. And it hasn’t, you know, kind of bold everybody over .

Do you, do you ever think about the, the momentum in the other direction and what’s behind that? Is it people don’t wanna change, they don’t wanna change their

[00:15:00] Dr. Julie Beischel: beliefs? Yeah, that’s the bottom line is people don’t, uh, they don’t wanna change. And there’s, you know, there’s sort of your neurology, . , depending on who you are, . , cannot fathom.

Um, new ideas are something that goes against what you already believe. Like people who are open-minded personalities, when they hear something new that goes against what they believe or they don’t know about it, the frontal cortex lights up and the brain goes, oh, let’s learn more about that. But people who are Skeptiko and conservative, when they hear new information, literally the amygdala lights up and it goes, this is very dangerous.

And you have a fear response in your body. So your brain and your body don’t let you even comprehend it. Don’t even let you entertain it because it, it, your brain interprets it as dangerous because it’s new and it’s different. So those people are neurologically incapable of hearing me, so I’m not talking to them.

[00:15:58] Alex Tsakiris: . You know, you may not be talking to them, but they’re kind of talking to us. I just pulled up, , Neil deGrasse Tyson, and I, I just wanna make sure this is still current. He’s still kind of spinning this stuff, but, you know, here’s, he’s got a couple million views on a video life and death, the cosmic perspective, and he just says, Hey, there’s zero scientific evidence for anything after death.

And I want to go No, you’re just, that’s just, I. Not true. You just haven’t looked, you haven’t, you haven’t done what a scientist would do is to say, are there any observable evidence that I should consider? And then I consider he’s just kind of making a blank blanket statement or, you know, here’s the other one I’d pull up that I, I thought was Joe Rogan Yani.

He can’t get any more mainstream than that in terms of number of views. You know, here’s another 4 million views and here’s Lex Friedman, who I really like, and . , but here is maybe the switch in position that we have amongst science. And it’s Lex saying, well, it’s kind of unknowable. And I would never venture a guess at the question of what happens after death.

And then Joe’s just patting him on the back and goes, wow, that’s such a great answer. I’m so glad you said you just know and it’s unknowable. And I thought, You know, it’s exactly in contrast to your work. Where, where you, as a scientist have said, well, let me see to what extent it is knowable and let, let me go try and know.

[00:17:32] Dr. Julie Beischel: I have so much to say about that. So, . , well, one, it’s ridiculous to think we know how everything in the universe works.

We are like a baby society. We are brand new. We don’t, there’s no way we can know everything. There’s a lot of mystery and a lot that’s a lot of the, um, pushback is that we, well, we don’t know how this works. We don’t have a mechanism laid out. Well, yeah, we don’t know why you people yawn or dream. There are like a Brazilian drugs, a bellion drugs on the market with the unknown mechanism of action.

You can look it up. What’s, how does this work? Mechanism of action unknown. They still sell it. You still take ’em, you still feel better. We can’t explain it. The mechanism is not necessary for something to be real. And, you know, the, the, the. Over the dominant scientific paradigm. Materialism wants us to explain how this can work in a materialist framework.

Well, it doesn’t. It can’t, no, it can’t work in a framework where the brain is trapped in the, where the mind is trapped in the brain. No, of course it can’t work like that. But that’s not right. That’s not how consciousness works. So it, it’s, it’s totally plausible if you take it from this other, um, the, the alternative, which is the, the mind consciousness is non-local.

It’s not localized inside the skull. It can acquire information and affect change and, uh, outside the brain and even past death. And so if you just look at it like that, then yeah, it’s totally plausible. It totally works. And then the other piece is this has been a part of. Human experience for eons all over the world.

Why do we think in our little tiny western modern view that we know, oh, this can’t possibly be happening. Well, it’s been happening since all of eternity all over. So no. What, why do you think your brand new idea from modern society is the right one? Like, that’s silly. That is totally illogical.

[00:19:44] Alex Tsakiris: Great. And I’m gonna go back and play this clip from, from Alex Friedman.

Cause I want you to comment on it specifically. I’m gonna play it into the show.

[00:19:51] Clip: Do you think there’s something else that happens to you when your body stops existing?

Do you think your consciousness transcends this, this dimension?

I think, uh, I think I’m not smart enough to even think about

that. That’s a great answer. So, uh, uh, I think everybody on Earth has that exact same answer

if they’re being honest.

[00:20:13] Dr. Julie Beischel: No, that’s really, that’s there’s a lot of mystery in the world, and that’s the most

[00:20:21] Alex Tsakiris: Yes.

But Hold on, hold on. Dr. Here’s my point. Okay. . No free pass on that. You, you didn’t, you know, so you got into this, . , through grief and bereavement brought you to the scientific . Doorway, of kind of looking into this. But you didn’t do what he did. You didn’t say, oh gosh.

Uh, there’s just no way I could ever, there’s plenty of ways you, your whole, uh, career here in terms of exploring this topic is a direct refutation of what he said. Yes. We can know more. Yes. There

[00:20:53] Dr. Julie Beischel: is some things. Okay. We can know more. We can’t understand it completely. Yeah. There’s lot, like there are sci like the, like textbooks on the, um, scientific method and they always use, oh, well there are some things science can’t address and they always use life after death.

Like, oh, that’s something science can’t address in no way, shape, or form. No, that’s not true. I. We, we probably as embodied consciousness is in this living existence, we probably can’t understand it fully. I bet that you probably don’t even understand it fully as a dead person on the other side. Like there’s, this is all very complex and we’re never gonna know all of it.

Um, but to say, oh no, we can’t look at it at all. No, we, there’s lots of pieces we can look at. And I wanna be clear because I’m criticized to go, well, you need it to be true cuz you miss your mom. No, I did. We have a, we had a terrible relationship. I was glad that she was dead. That’s awful. But that’s the truth.

I didn’t need it to be true. When she died and I looked into it, it was like right at the time, um, John Edward was big on tv and it was like the first time I ever heard of a medium and it gave me, well, this is interesting. Let me look into this as a scientist. And that’s how I got, so the, the, the dead mom was, Gave me the opportunity to, um, look into something I didn’t know anything about, but I didn’t need it.

I wa I was kind of upset that it was, oh, look it, they are still around. Like, oh no. And that’s changed in 20 years. That’s changed. Um, but that’s where I came. Like, so it, I, I don’t wanna say grief and bereavement got me into this. . , a, a death close to me allowed me to look into a thing I didn’t know anything about, but I didn’t need it to be true.

[00:22:48] Alex Tsakiris: Thanks for clarifying that cause that’s an important distinction, but I still, there’s something there to explore. I think, and this is ground that we’ve covered before, but it’s good to kind of cover it again, particularly with this book, because I think this book is approaching people who are coming into this thing from that angle, which is understandable.

You know, they’ve lost a loved one and we’ll return to talking about love cuz hey, that’s such an important point you made at the very beginning. That love in this way that we can’t describe it, can’t understand it is the driving force. And I’ve certainly heard that from near death experience researchers, but I love what you said about the, the mechanism we can’t understand the mechanism.

And I guess I tie that right back to the mechanism of grief. You know, I mean, grief is. Is is a nasty thing for a lot of people. And you know, maybe it, it didn’t affect you in exactly the way that it affects other people. Or, you know, probably I’d be more kind of inclined and have been more like you probably.

But that doesn’t mean anything. But there is a mechanism surrounding grief and bereavement that has brought a lot of people into your research, into this curiosity about, you know, the afterlife. H how have you thought about that, dealt with that, particularly with the people that, that contact you and wanna know more and read your books and read your articles and all the rest of that?

[00:24:14] Dr. Julie Beischel: I wanna say too that, uh, I had a, a dog, my dog moose that I had for 15 years, . , when, when Moose died, I, I didn’t know what grief was. I did feel it for the first time, I think. And, . , and then, uh, I tell this story in the book. Um, we had the house, there’s a house in our neighborhood that’s a rental, and a woman was renting it, and she was, uh, her husband, the love of her life died unexpectedly.

And so she was in the throes of acute grief. And, and I spent a lot of time with her. And this was before I really knew anything about grief. And so I got to see it firsthand and I got to watch it transform. And, um, and so I, I tell that story, uh, in the book, but she, she, you know, she would, she, like, at one point she showed me a picture of herself and she says, this is what I looked like before I died.

And so when she, when he died, I don’t wanna cry. Um, she experienced it as not like a piece of me has got. She was like, I’m, I died. I’m not me. I died. And so to watch that transform was really interesting. But I wanted to make sure it include animals in this book because I think a lot of people, even if you don’t know any people, um, close to you that have died, you probably have, um, animals that you loved.

And so there’s a whole chapter about, um, animal consciousness is the same as human consciousness and there’s lots of evidence for animals on the other side in, in not just mediumship readings, but again, in near death experiences and these other topics. So I wanted to bring that because, um, that’s, it’s a different kind of grief and it’s, I think, more difficult to go through because our society is like, ah, just a dog, get over it.

Like, no, that is my best friend, my member of my family. And so I wanted to, to, um, give people a. The evidence, like, no, it’s okay to believe that that was a member of your family, cuz it was. And it’s okay to believe that you are having spontaneous experiences of the animal still with you. And you know, there’s stories that I shared with people that, um, you know, they hear the animal or they feel them lay in the bed with them or like, there’s all kinds of spontaneous experiences that people have.

Those are totally normal and those are totally real. You’re not having this hallucination that is the survived consciousness of someone you loved spending time with you.

[00:26:50] Alex Tsakiris: That’s so awesome. And I just kind of ping pong back and forth because I, I keep wanting to say back to what I said before is this is , monumentally important research.

There’s 20. Thousand dissertations kind of waiting to happen from so many things. You said, like, you just said something, you said human consciousness is no different than animal consciousness, and you just said it kind of matter-of-factly. I interpret that to mean is based on my work in terms of after-death communication, I don’t see any measurable difference, at least at first glance between.

And, and that would lead me to speculate that perhaps there are more similarities between human consciousness and animal consciousness. This is radically different from anything that they, so there you go. There’s, you know, five, 10 dissertations

[00:27:40] Dr. Julie Beischel: right there. But it’s not, it’s not because the, . , like a bunch of, . , materialist neuroscientists got together, . , many years ago.

I cite it in my book. . , and they, they were like, what is consciousness? And they declared. That animals do have consciousness, just like we do octopuses, you know, mammals, primates, everything. So even in mainstream science, the, the, the human animal relationship is becoming more valued because, uh, the, there is evidence that animal consciousness is pretty much the same as human consciousness.

But, but you get

[00:28:23] Alex Tsakiris: what I’m saying in terms of I totally get it. I mean, you are taking this really, really, and without any exaggeration, you, you are kind of hinting at something that is profoundly different than our understanding. Because our understanding normal day-to-day science understanding is that there’s this difference.

There’s this huge difference between our self-awareness, our ability to plan, and then your research comes in and goes, don’t say it. Sorry. You know, here we’ve looked at it. This, you wanna

[00:28:53] Dr. Julie Beischel: speak to that. . , yeah, again, I, it’s silly to think that we understand how everything works. I think mystery is a really important part of human existence, like being okay with not understanding everything and we, there’s no way we can understand to where we could explain it, what it’s like to be dead.

Like there’s no, no matter how much information we get from various sources, it’s always interpreted through a living existence and like, so we’re never gonna really understand it. But what we do know, without a doubt, is that there is plenty of evidence that consciousness is not localized to the brain.

It’s what’s called non-local. It can, it can reach outside of the self and acquire information. Like everyone knows the stories of like moms who know. Their children have gotten car accidents all the way across the country. There’s no way the brain can know that that is a non-local consciousness. And so there’s plenty of evidence that that exists.

And I go through that. Um, like how is an afterlife even possible is a chapter in my book. Because there’s plenty of evidence that when we’re living our consciousness is non-local. . , and then there’s plenty of evidence that when the body dies, the consciousness is still exists non locally cuz and not associated with the body and survives physical death.

[00:30:23] Alex Tsakiris: I want to maybe at the risk of jumping around, I wanna return to the love thing because you laid it out right at the beginning of this interview and you laid it out just beautifully. I love how you said I was resistant to it. You know, I, I get that. I’m kind of the same way. I have, I. Fortunate. I have a lot of love in my life and a lot of family and all that, but I’m also kind of a business guy and kind of, you know, going through, you know, I, I kind of, no, you know, no.

So I appreciate where you’re coming on this. I remember talking to, . , Jeff Long, you know, just mm-hmm. A couple years ago, of course, you know, one of the most noted, prominent near-death experience researchers, and he told me almost the exact same story. He said, you know, I’ve looked through all these accounts, I’ve looked through all this, and everyone wants, you know, they ask me about the tunnel.

They have out life review. He goes, I gotta say, you know, I’m just looking at the data now, and the data is love at this like level that just doesn’t make any sense. It’s like 96% of people are saying the most important part of what I got out of this was love. Love is everything. Love is everything. And then you come through and you’re coming at it from a totally different perspective, from a totally different research angle.

And you go, yeah, good to say, you know, love. So, You know, what do we do with that? What, what it, it’s a challenge, but what do we do with the fact that that’s what it’s all about?

[00:31:50] Dr. Julie Beischel: So, . , chapter eight in, . , love in that afterlife is, well, what, what do we do with that? So if you wanna hear from your loved ones and it isn’t happening, what I’m suggesting is you gotta put more love in your life, . , so that we can sort of, . , mimic the energetics of the afterlife so that they can, you know, like it’s terrible here.

People are awful and it’s terrible. If I was in afterlife, I wouldn’t come here. There’s what? Good. I would never come here. It’s terrible. And so that’s what you say now? Yeah. And, but, so I suggest like, try, why don’t you like, try and, . , condition your energetics to be more, you know, if you wanted to like play the stock market, you’d read a book by someone who’s good at it.

If you wanted to be an athlete, you’d read a book about. So I asked the mediums, they’re good at connecting with the other side. So if you wanna connect with the other side, what do we know about mediums that you can do? And there’s a lot that we know. So there are personality characteristics that you can try and turn up and turn down, . , and, . , in order to, again, make you more conditioned to be connected to the other side.

But, you know, . , if you just like everything that you do, like it sounds, oh, I have so much trouble saying it cuz I sound like a hippie. But like, it’s all about love. It’s, I hate saying it, but that’s where the data point. So that’s what we gotta do. So if you wanna hear from your deceased loved ones, like you gotta do love.

I have a lot of suggestions in chapter eight,

[00:33:25] Alex Tsakiris: and that’s what I was pointing to earlier, is this book is practical in a way that’s gonna surprise you. And that’s probably the biggest one of saying, okay, here’s a practical science type person who’s saying, you know, here’s how you do it, but you’re gonna be kind of surprised with the answer, which is to bring more love into your life.

And, uh, again, the way you just laid it out there is completely unique and, important and interesting. . , I tell you what, let’s switch to another topic, just kind of a practical, but I wanna check it off the list thing. Help people understand the different kinds of after death communication.

[00:34:07] Dr. Julie Beischel: , that’s where I wanted to go next too. , so yeah, there’s four kinds of after death communication and we can go through all four of those.

, but a mediumship reading is only one kind of way. So, uh, there’s what’s called spontaneous after death communication, which like the name suggests is something that happens you didn’t intend for it to happen. So dreams where people communicate with the other side that’s under the category of spontaneous.

Then there’s what’s called facilitated, which is where you work with a clinician with very specific protocols that have been, um, tested and peer reviewed and published. And, um, where they, they do, you know, their protocol on you. And then yeah, emdr, um, is one of ’em. Um, participating in a ome, NTM is the other one.

So I go through all these in the book. So, um, you know, it’s not one size fits all, right? Maybe these other things do. And then we call a mediumship breeding assisted after death communication. So you are not experiencing the communication, but the medium is, and she’s sharing the messages, so she is assisting you.

Um, and then there’s what I call, I coined the term requested after death communication. So that’s where you engage in a practice or, you know, take ayahuasca or whatever with the direct. Or just simply ask for a message, um, um, with the intent of receiving communication from the other side. So, uh, at that, um, this is a good time to talk about, uh, my guidance for grief cards.

So I, I designed this deck of cards and so, you know, people in the throes of grief, like you don’t have, you can’t often have the energy to ha like, attend a weekend workshop or see a therapist every week, whatever. But can you shuffle a deck of cards and pick one? I, you know, so this, um, these cards, it’s 52 cards and there’s four kinds of cards.

So there’s signs, which is, um, uh, I will tell you. This story. Uh, but, so this is a card. This is one of the cards. And so it says, today I will be open to noticing a meaningful song or other piece of music, as it might be a message from my loved one. So if you pick this, then you should, and then you get that, then that seems like good evidence that your person, so I can tell you a quick story.

So we live next to a cemetery, and often, um, someone comes and practices the bagpipe in the cemetery, and they, they, um, play funerals sometimes. And so, um, when I started, uh, one of the things that like got me, I gotta share this stuff, was, um, I, I gotta learn to walk the talk. And so after 20 years and a terrible relationship in the physical life, I was like, okay, mom, I just said it, you know, in my mind, okay mom, I think I’m ready to start having a relationship with you and I’m gonna use these cards.

And so, um, One of the first few days. Uh, so my mom hated the song Amazing Grace. Whenever we had to sing it in church, she would roll her eyes. She hated the song so much. And so, um, uh, the, they were playing Amazing Grace on the bagpipes. The next day after I was like, you maybe come and be in my life. Uh, they were playing and I was like, well, if you’re gonna be in my life, you gotta put up with amazing Grace on the backpacks.

That’s part of it. And, uh, so these cards, you’re supposed to pick one at the beginning of the day. I’m picking at the end to like, say what happened to me in the day, not this is what I’m gonna look for during the day. It’s like, what happened to me? So I was like, wouldn’t it be crazy if I pulled that card and I shuffled the cards and that’s the card that I pulled was the card about music.

So that was. A good sign for me. So that’s how the science cards work,

[00:38:03] Alex Tsakiris: , so I’ve asked Julie to pull up, uh, the next card, the message card. And in the meantime, if you want, I’ve pulled up on the screen the Amazon listing for guidance for grief, which looks really cool. And then Julie’s gonna tell us a, , a message card.

And I guess I’d like to hear more of the backstory too, of why you’ve encountered a lot of people who are in this situation, and you’re a scientist, but you’re also a very caring person. Whether you wanna kind of add that edge to yourself, slick or not, it’s, so, I’m sure that’s part of what’s what this is about is you like to see people not suffer so much.

[00:38:48] Dr. Julie Beischel: . , our modern society is not good at helping us. With our grief. So I, and I was reading all this stuff and like, you know, the clinicians know what helps people with grief. The thing that’s demonstrated to, to best, . , improve grief is what’s called continuing bonds.

So it’s the recognition that your bond, that with the person who has died, still exists. So your relationship is just different now, right? They’re, they’re, they didn’t, they’re not gone. They’re just different. And so recognizing your continuing bond with them is really good at alleviating the negative, uh, feelings around grief.

And so I was like, well, people need to be able to bring this into their lives. So I developed this deck of cards so that people had a way to every day, you know, ritual is very important. . , In various things. And so they had just shuffled the deck, pull a card, and I even, . , on my website@juliebphd.com, I have a card picker.

So if you don’t wanna like do the shuffling and the, you know, you don’t want it to be up to you, there’s a random event generator that will pick the number of the card for you on my website. .

[00:40:04] Alex Tsakiris: . So the, the continuing bonds, what is the, what does the science look like behind that? How do you know what you just said is true?

[00:40:11] Dr. Julie Beischel: Okay, so, . , back, like, . , in the Freud days, . , he called, . , if you experienced . Your deceased person still in your life, he considered that a delusion, a hallucination.

And so from that point on, that’s how the clinical community looked at it. It, they, it was dangerous. It, it, it showed that you were not improving. And, . , it was the, what, what therapists and whatnot told you to do when you were grieving and you were having trouble in your life was, you know, basically get over it and move on.

And by the 1980s, the clinical community looked around and they were like, that. That’s not making people feel any better. And they were noticing that they were people who were thriving. They weren’t just surviving. They were thriving. And what was different about them is that they recognized a continuing bond with the deceased loved one.

And so there’s been lots of research, you know, spontaneous after death, communication experiences are really common. So it’s pretty easy to study those. So they study those kind of things. And then, like this, this facilitated, um, after death communication with the emdr, the psycho manum, there’s lots of evidence for that.

And so those things demonstrate continuing bonds. And, um, and then what I’m suggesting is that’s what these cards, these guidance for grief cards do as well. There’s limited evidence that a mediumship reading does that because there’s no. It’s hard to do that research. . , there’s no funding for this kind of stuff.

. , but you filled some

[00:41:43] Alex Tsakiris: of that research, haven’t you? And it’s a little bit, yeah, it points in that

[00:41:46] Dr. Julie Beischel: direction. It does point in that direction, and it just makes logical sense. There’s, there’s plenty of controlled, it’s not controlled because people, there’s spontaneous experiences. You can’t bring those into the lab.

But the, the, the clinical outcomes from them are, are demonstrated. You know, there’s science behind that where people take tests and whatever, and, um, their clinician agrees that their grief is improved after they have a spontaneous after death communication. So it makes sense that the, and so spontaneous does it facilitated, does it makes sense that assisted would do it and that requested would do it.

[00:42:26] Alex Tsakiris: And I would think and suspect from what you’ve said, that re requested is just , a natural kind of extension of all this stuff. Because there’s gonna be a requested aspect in a lot of these, right? You go to a medium, you’re requesting, yeah, you gotta get facilitated. You are requesting.

So I think it’s awesome that you’ve formalized it and these cards are terrific because they’re so accessible in a way that kind of immediately makes people able to do it. Cuz there are still challenges with medium readings just in terms of which you’ve always been about, you know, finding the right medium, making it work for you, and then making that process work for you in terms of, uh, going through it is, you know, it’s not, not easy and not available to a lot of people.

This is just perfectly available.

[00:43:15] Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah. And I think it’s, you know, when someone. In our modern society when someone you love is grieving, right? They’ve lost someone. It’s, we really don’t know what to do. I don’t know what to do. . , and so this is a product that you can like gift to someone like, Hmm, maybe this can help you and that you can feel like that you did something.

I wanted to be able to provide something that people could give to other people when they knew they were suffering and go, look, I get it right, because it’s, the afterlife is right in the description of the card deck. Like, so by giving it to someone, you’re like, I get it. I believe in an afterlife too, and I know it’s not woo and it’s not crazy.

And so it’s, it hopefully will sort of create, you know, micro communities where it’s okay. In your group of friends to, to talk about these kind of things,

[00:44:02] Alex Tsakiris: . What’s your gut sense about whether this is efficacious?

Particularly kind of as a scientist, whether do it yourself, do the cards, do the work, be more loving, is that really gonna make a difference?

[00:44:17] Dr. Julie Beischel: I truly think that it is. . , I think that like, even if you don’t receive a sign, like even if you pull the music card and you didn’t hear any music that day, the the idea that you think it’s possible there, you’ve already established a relationship and not every, you know, not all, . , dead people are maybe good at bringing bagpipes to the cemetery or whatever, like you have to.

. , so these cards, . , still the relationship in a realistic way. So like, so the first kind of cards is signs, so that will help you figure out which signs and the second kind, . , are messages in its form from you to your departed level one. So like this card for example, Says Dear loved one. I’m trying my best to let communication with you happen naturally and thank you for every message you send.

And so it’s you saying, I know this is a two way relationship, and so when you pick this card, maybe this is what the relationship needed to hear that day, and that’s the premise from all of this. And so then the can, I should move on. Then the third kind of card is called affirmations. Those are purple and they, these are things that are at the, that when you look at grief research, this is what grief research knows, and so it’s, this one says, I recognize that there’s more to me than my loss.

I am more than just grief. And so it’s just things like that. I’m gonna read one more. I understand that grief is different for everyone and the way I’m doing it is the right way for me. So when you pick this card, I. That day. That’s the universe your deceased loved one, your higher self, whatever I call them special forces, um, whatever energetic angels, you know, whatever your language is, it’s all of those coming together using the power of randomness to get you the message that you need to hear that day.

. So the fourth, um, kind of card are called wisdom. And so they’re quotes, direct quotes from the mediums on my team. And so this particular one is from the medium Daria, Justin.

And she says, put your preconceived notions aside and open yourself up to the subtleties of how energetic messages arrive. You are looking for fireworks, when you should be looking for fireflies. And so it’s things like that that like, Let’s, again, let’s talk to the people who communicate with the departed regularly and see what they have to say.

So there’s these four different ways that you can get the, the what you need to hear that day, to, to address your grief to

[00:46:59] Alex Tsakiris: you. Yeah, that’s, that’s super awesome. You gotta find a way to support win Bridge Research Center. I mean, don’t you, after you hear this again, if you’re not moved to say, this is science that we need to move forward, but what will people find at the website?

These articles are great. Yes. What are mediums and how do scientists study them? Uh, why medium research is important, grief and after death communication, nicely done. Tell, tell folks about the website. Yeah,

[00:47:27] Dr. Julie Beischel: so there’s lots of these, um, web articles that are just right on the website, but then if you go, um, to the menu, they’re, and go to education.

. ,

then, . , so , we did, , Winberg Research Center, afterlife Symposium, and we had 11 sessions.

And so it’s open access. So there’s 11 conference videos that you can watch for free. You don’t have to sign up. They’re just open access. , and, and we’re, we’re talking about all kinds of things using remote viewing to view the afterlife, , mediumship, all kinds of things. So I interview a doctor, , that I know about, and he’s been at the bedside of people as they died, like hundreds if not thousands of people.

So it’s that sort of thing that the Wimber Research Center does. And then if you scroll down, , that big blue button is called fact sheets. So we have all these fact sheets where you can learn about our research and what we’ve found in like a couple pages, , pdf.

And so these are printable. You can hand them out, you can have them when someone says something, , like one there is called, well actually responses to common misconceptions about mediums. So when someone in your life says something ridiculous, you can be, you can have that like, well actually it’s this and there’s this research at the Wimber Research Center that shows this.

And, , this particular fact sheet’s colorful and funny, but most of ’em are just sort of straightforward. And so there’s one, if you go back to the list, there’s one about, , the accuracy testing and, and the blinded conditions and the five levels of blinding. And, , yeah, they’re in, we used to have like four and, , it wasn’t hard to, , there’s one about animals, , dreams.

, where is, oh, there it is. Under the, well actually testing mediums accuracy under controlled laboratory conditions. So there’s the data that we’ve shown that we’ve collected. And so I did a study, , at the University of Arizona when I was doing my postdoc there with eight mediums. And then at the Woodbridge, , research center, I’ve done another one with 20 mediums and.

So originally 16 readings, then 58 more readings, and then now it’s been replicated in another lab in Italy. And there’s all kinds of evidence, like it’s not just me saying this, this is real. And so this, , this fact sheet shows the protocol that we use, the data that we collected. And, um, so again, if, if someone is saying there’s no evidence, like 58 readings, plus 16 plus these Italy, like it’s a, it’s hundreds of readings under controlled conditions, like that’s a lie.

That’s, you are wrong. If you say there’s no evidence, you are just wrong or blind or like, Will, will fully blind at not wanting to look at this, these things, but it’s there. So, but the Wind Bridge Research Center is all about good science and free educational materials. So if you sign up for our email list every time we have a new, we have videos up there, and, , every time we have a new, , interview or anything, , for free, we’ll email it to you once a month.

We send an email once a month. So please join our email list at, . , the Win Bridge Research Center website, which is win bridge.org.

[00:50:54] Alex Tsakiris: Fantastic. And I really encourage people to do it, and I really think that the, the cards which I wasn’t aware of before we spoke are really kind of a. Fantastic. It’s just a fantastic tool.

It feel, obviously just from hearing about it, it fill a real gap because maybe the final thing we’ll talk about and then I’ll, I’ll let you go. I really appreciate the time and I, I hope people do check out the book Love in the Afterlife because as we’ve spoken about, you know, it fills a lot of gaps for people who are coming at this and trying to find a way in and trying to kind of, they like, kinda like you or I, I like to kinda understand this stuff before they jump right in.

But the last topic I wanna make sure we do cover is, there still is, I think a lot of confusion about medium readings and about how to, you know, select, or not even how to select. It’s like, oh gosh, could I even do that? And I’m afraid to do that. And just the standard thing on what you tell people when they approach you about mediums.

[00:51:55] Dr. Julie Beischel: So, . , yeah, there’s three chapters because that’s what I know most about is mediumship. So there’s three chapters about. So you wanna get a mediumship reading and, . , because the big idea is there are three people involved in a mediumship reading and the medium is only one of them. And so you want a better mediumship reading, be a better sitter.

And so there’s so many things that people do wrong and that prevent it from going smoothly and sorry to spend three chapters. So what can you do before a reading? What can you do during a reading and what can you do after a reading to optimize the process for everybody? And . , so you know, first you want it, like, why do I want a reading?

There’s four ways to connect with the other side. . , why is it that you want a reading? Why is it that you want it now? . , and so like some self-assessment needs to take place. It’s not just like, I’m gonna get my hair cut. No, this is like, A therapeutic intervention. It it isn’t, but it’s like one, . , where you wouldn’t, it’s going to have a, in one shape or form, it’s gonna have an impact on your grief.

So you don’t wanna just walk into it blindly, like, let’s see, it looks fun. No, this is like you were connecting with the other side. Like there’s no thing that nothing prepares us in our society. We’re not trained in how to deal with any of this. So you really need to, . , go into it with a clear head and for the right reasons.

And then there’s lots of things that you can do. . , don’t let anyone else pick a medium for you. It’s, it’s a very. Personal thing people say, you know, they want me to recommend one of our mediums. I never will do that. I never ne even to my closest friends I know. All I know about the mediums on my team is that they passed my test on that day with those dead people and those sitters, I cannot guarantee they’re gonna . Do it again.

.. . Like, I’m not going to order your dinner either. I’m not gonna suggest anything like, th this is a very personal, intimate thing. So what I suggest is that you find, like, for example, at win bridge.org, . , we list the mediums on my team under the about us, . , button.

And so go to that page, you know, click on. Out to their websites and maybe one speaks to you, or maybe, and so before you start going through the list, invite your deceased person, I’m gonna go to a medium, help me pick one. And so maybe there’s like a website that the color reminds you of your person or there’s something and . , and you know, or maybe you pick one and then it doesn’t go well.

Like you can’t, your email doesn’t work. Oh, no. That’s a coincidence. No, that’s the system saying you picked the wrong one. Try again. . , pay attention to the signs. . If I could just

[00:54:58] Alex Tsakiris: interject something there. Sure. . Because we have known each other for a long time, and . , I have learned from the master here because I’ve done some medium readings, both, . , personally, but mainly kind of for the Skeptiko project to understand.

So I could say that I’ve done it and . , you know, I think everyone is different. But the thing I would, I would put an exclamation point on something you said, but kind of from a different angle is like, level-headed also to me means somewhat dispassionate, somewhat, . , removed from it. Because the thing I’d say is I don’t get a good medium reading.

I don’t immediately think that, oh my God, there’s something wrong. This could never work. And as I’ve shared on the show, one of the more confirming things for me was I had . , a, a medium breeding with . , I’m pretty sure it was a, a medium from the Wind Bridge Institute and it didn’t go well. And you know what she did?

She said, wow, this didn’t go well. I think I should give you your money back. And I was like, whoa, mediums are supposed to do that. And then I picked another one and he said, this didn’t go well. I think I should give you your, your money back. And I’m not saying everyone’s gonna encounter that, you know, but it’s like, because for me I was a little bit detached, a little bit, you know, but I was like, I will persist forward.

It doesn’t mean on this day, at this time, it didn’t work in the third time. It was incredibly meaningful to me. And the person on the other side, the medium did it. . , I think your, your advice is, is really solid. And I think just being level-headed can mean a different thing to different person.

So please go on though, cuz you, you were talking about before, during, and after.

[00:56:28] Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah, no, that’s a really good point. . , and so one of the things as you’re choosing is you don’t have to choose. There’s lots of mediums in the world. And we did a survey where we surveyed, I think it was like three, 300 mediums, like claimant mediums, and only.

They didn’t all charge like a, a small percentage of them charged, but a lot of them didn’t. And so it’s not, you know, we can, we can’t say all mediums are in it for the money. A majority of them don’t even charge any money. So that really shakes up your argument there, doesn’t it? . , but one of the things that I suggest is do your due diligence as a consumer.

This is a contractor you’re hiring. You wouldn’t just like, oh, I bet the plumber will do a good job. You would look into it and you would know what the refund policy was. So if you know all those things and it isn’t going well, you can stop a reading too. The medium can stop it or you can stop it. And if you know their policies before you get started, then they can’t hurt you because you know about the refund policy or not.

Right? And so if you go into it level-headed of I’m hiring a contractor, . , and, and just. Maybe it’ll work, but it is not definitive of your relationship. You still have a relationship with your deceased loved one. Whatever happens, you still have a relationship and don’t, like, I need proof. No, I got the, . , I’m the one at good at testing proof.

You don’t need to get proof. If you wanna spend some time and reinforce the idea that your bond with your person continues, then by all means get a reading. But if you’re trying to test a medium or prove any, no, it ain’t for you, go do something else. . , don’t waste her time because she’s gonna be able to connect people with their loved ones.

Don’t waste your time if you’re, if you’re trying to test somebody. Yeah, if you’re like a medium should be able to, Nope. Not for you, not for you.

[00:58:28] Alex Tsakiris: So I didn’t mean to get us off track. I think you were talking about before, during, and after. I think we covered before. Do you want to quickly hit on during and after?

[00:58:36] Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah. So there’s lots of three whole chapters, but, . , one of the things that you can do, um, is yeah, be mindful during the reading. And so, uh, Laurel Jackson calls it Don’t feed the medium. So don’t throw up information about your deceased person on the medium. They’re, they’ll get you. D it’s the first time that someone wants to talk about your dead person.

Sorry, I gotta stop saying you’re dead person. It’s very callous. Uh, in the book I call them D os you’re departed. Loved one. So, . , it’s the first time someone wants to talk about your d and so your instinct, even if you don’t think it is, it is. Is to just throw, oh my gosh, my birthday wants, send me like this, wanna talk like, you’re, you’re gonna wanna do that.

And, and so be, be mindful that that’s gonna happen. And don’t feed the medium as Laura says. . , the medium will usually explain the way that they’re gonna do the thing. And so, and you can explain the way you’re gonna do your thing. Go, I’m only comfortable answering the question. Does that make sense?

Right. And if they go, well, what about this name? I’m not gonna answer that. And if they keep pushing and go, I don’t think this is for me. I, I request a refund. Like it’s total, you’re, it’s, you are hiring a contract. Like you, you are the customer, like you’re the consumer. You, you can control it all along the way.

So I suggest you only answer the question. Does that make sense? And you only answer with yes, no, maybe sort of, or I don’t know. Because then they can’t read. There’s, there’s, so you’re control, and again, you’re not testing this medium, but you’re trying not to mess with the system and feed, trying not to feed the medium.

So if you, all you say is yes, no, maybe sort of, or I don’t know, then it can’t be cold reading. It can’t,

[01:00:26] Alex Tsakiris: I think the advice you’re giving is so incredibly important to follow because when you look back on the reading and you go, oh my God, could they have done this?

If you follow the protocol you’re talking about, you’re gonna have more confidence in saying, you know, I really didn’t give him anything. There’s no way. And I, I don’t know if you wanna comment on that, but I think people go in thinking, no, , no. I trust it. I can just, you know, continuing bonds and I’m just it.

But you’re gonna have those moments of doubt and if you follow your protocol, it’s gonna reduce that doubt, which I think is one of the most valuable things you can have out of it. .

[01:00:59] Dr. Julie Beischel: Yeah. And to be clear, like I only ever got one medium reading in my whole life and it was when my mom died and then I, I haven’t done it since. And because the, our readings are so controlled, it’s not like a reading, I don’t really know what a reading is like, but the, I wrote those chapters based on what the mediums on my team, . , shared with me and, and seeing it happen in the lab.

. , I know it can happen without you feeding the medium at all. So I know that’s the right thing to do. . , it does control for, . , yeah, cuz later you go, well, I did kind of tell her. . , and so if you just go, if your intention is like, I’m just going to have this experience and see if I feel like I spent the afternoon with my D l O. . , . , so you know, Recognize your assumptions, what your, what you think. . , manage your expectations and recognize that in with any kind of ADCs, . , spontaneous or assisted or requested, it has to be realistic. You can’t be like, oh, well you should make the sun go around the move then I’ll believe it.

No, it has to be realistic and possible and practical. And for example, me and other researchers who study mediums have found that about 30% of any reading is gonna apply to other people. Cuz people are only so different. . , oh, your mother was female. Oh, you know, like, no one, A medium is never gonna say that, but, . it’s not gonna be unique.

And you have to recognize that. . Yeah, lots of people die from cancer, lots of people have red hair. . , those things are not gonna be entirely unique, but people are not entirely unique. So again, you’re, your sort of touchstone is, do I feel like I spent the afternoon with my d l o?

That’s really all you’re

[01:02:51] Alex Tsakiris: looking for. Nice one. Any thoughts on the after? Do we want to touch on that

[01:02:56] Dr. Julie Beischel: after the reading? Oh, so the after is just, . , reflect on what the medium said. So try some mediums will record it. . , some will let you take notes, uh, reflect on what they said. Sometimes they’ll say things that don’t make sense, and so you wanna keep track of those things because they might come true in the future.

You might have to check with other people in your family, . , to verify them. They might, some meetings will be like, You know, look up this book or see this movie, or that sort of thing. So you wanna make sure that you follow through and then you just wanna have gratitude that even if you don’t feel like you’ve spent the afternoon with the person, be like, well, thank you for trying, you know, maybe we’ll do it again a different time.

Um, that you wanna always have gratitude because we don’t know, again, this is all, it’s not a phone call. And so these things are not, we don’t know how hard that is for a deceased person to come through a medium. We don’t know. So thank you. That might have been a l that might have been like running a marathon.

We don’t know. So be grateful, . , that they tried. Awesome. I’m

[01:04:06] Alex Tsakiris: not gonna ask you about the soul phone. I’m not gonna ask you about the soul phone. Nevermind. Thank you. So this has been so, so awesome, Dr. Julie Basal has been our guest. Again, the book you’re gonna wanna check out is Love in the Afterlife. And if you know somebody who needs those cards, . . I’m not the scientist. She is. . . She’s the world renowned expert in after death communication, but I think it might be efficacious for somebody who needs it.

Julie, thanks so much for being here. Any final thoughts? Anything we we kinda missed that we should cover with people?

[01:04:40] Dr. Julie Beischel: . join the Wind Bridge Research Center email list. . , and then if you want, . , to, to hear me hawk my goods, then join my email list@juliebphd.com.

[01:04:52] Alex Tsakiris: Awesome. That’s fantastic seeing you again and having you on the show. You too. It’s awesome. Thank you.

Thanks again to Dr. Julie buy-sell for joining me today on skeptical. The one question I’d have to tee up from this interview is.

What has happened to after death communication as a quote unquote scientific pursuit. I don’t get it. This is one of the fundamental questions of humanness.

They have all the silliness that goes on around humanness and transhumanist and all the rest of this. How can this area where somebody has already spaded the soil and turned up a lot of stuff. How can this be so ignored? Well, I think, you know how, at least my opinion, but I want to hear yours.

What’s going on. Why do you think this is.

Let me know your thoughts. Love to hear from you until next time. Take care. Bye for now.


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