UFO researcher Grant Cameron has uncovered 100s of previously classified UFO documents pointing toward a UFO/consciousness link.
photo by: Skeptiko
Researcher and author Grant Cameron encourages the UFO community to focus on consciousness science. He also exposing the US government’s longtime knowledge of, and ongoing interest in, consciousnesses phenomena related to UFO contact:
Grant Cameron: We discovered this document that is declassified in 1978. This I believe is the most significant document in the whole UFO field because there’s absolutely no doubt that this document is legitimate. It’s in the archives in Ottawa in the Department of Transport files. There are draft copies in Wilbur Smith’s files–the guy who wrote the document… this document says, we’ve talked to American officials and they have told us the following items: flying saucers exist. It’s a highly classified subject in the United States, rated two points higher than the hydrogen bomb… the next line in the document that says we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the flying saucers such as “mental phenomena.”
The key part to that is now we know that aliens are telepathic. You have contactees, experiencers, abductees, etc. All these people are talking about aliens being telepathic. But in 1950 the first abductees would not be known until Betty and Barney Hill’s book came out in the 1960s. So the question is, how did the Americans know to tell the Canadians in this Top Secret memo that mental phenomena was part of the phenomenon?
Read Excerpts From Interview:
Grant Cameron: A lot of ufology will leave out this mental phenomena [aspect]. It’s fine to say it’s highly classified because of the metal, and how the [UFO] flies; the anti-gravity and stuff like that. But it’s even more significant that in 1947, on day one when this thing starts, they realize there’s this mental aspect, and realize that we would learn later is that’s how you fly the craft. You use your mind.
Alex Tsakiris: I thought the way that [Edgar Mitchell] very directly spoke to these points, and I’ll recap them for you: the Space Program created a consciousness shift for all of us [and] for society. When we went out into space it created a consciousness shift. Number two, anyone who investigates will conclude we’re not the only game in town. It’s obvious to anyone who looks. Three, there’s overwhelming evidence that we’ve been continuously visited for a long time. Four, there’s an ongoing campaign of misinformation, distortion, and lies to hide this information. Five, this is not good for civilization. That’s what I pulled out of it. You tell me what you felt like he was trying to say in his forward and why he was saying it the way that he was.
Grant Cameron: I haven’t really read the forward that many times. You picked out more than I did. I didn’t really pay that much attention to it. But Edgar Mitchell writes the forward and in it he talks about the fact that anybody who investigates this will find out that this is for real. This is a legitimate situation where we are being visited by some sort of non-human intelligence. And he makes reference to the fact that consciousness is linked to this whole field. And that is something that will later come out to me, through my download, and will later come out through this foundation that [Mitchell] establishes. This FREE (Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial Encounters) foundation, one of the key aspects is the consciousness aspect.
Alex Tsakiris: The important thing about the FREE organization, and we’ve spoken to Ray Hernandez and Mary Rodwell on this show, the focus is on experiencers, which is the other shift that comes about when you start thinking about it in terms of consciousness; in terms of its connection to the mystical, extended, spiritual experiences. Then you immediately shift away from the engineering aspect of it, and the craft aspect of it, and you switch to thinking about the people aspect of it, and the experiencer aspect. It sounds like Edgar Mitchell was ahead of the curve in making that shift a long time ago and saying, we need to look at the people who are being contacted and having this experience.
Grant Cameron: Yes. He had contact with experiencers before and actually had this healing experience where he had been healed many years before. So he was in that world where he realized there was more to this than just nuts & bolts, and metal. He’s pointed out what a number of people have point out: there’s a lot of misinformation based upon his experience of going through defense intelligence briefings that they did. There’s a whole series of lies that have been established by the control group or whoever’s running this thing to keep it withheld from the people. This is very important and an idea that John Podesta will bring out later is this is a very important subject for people to know. And the way John Podesta would frame it, you cannot run a government, you cannot run a democracy unless the people know what they’re voting for. The advantages of releasing this outweigh any disadvantages that might come from losing some sort of technology to the Russians or Chinese. It’s very important this get out. Edgar pushed this and he tried to support people who are trying to get this message out, realizing that a lot of effort had been put into trying to keep it secret.
[easy-tweet tweet=”I think that Hillary Clinton might be the first president ever to disclose exactly what’s going on with UFOs”]
Grant Cameron: We discovered this document that is declassified in 1978. This I believe is the most significant document in the whole UFO field because there’s absolutely no doubt that this document is legitimate. It’s in the archives in Ottawa in the Department of Transport files. There are draft copies in Wilbur Smith’s files–the guy who wrote the document. I talked to Dr. Oman Slant who’s mentioned in the document. The only objection he had to the document was Wilbur didn’t have authorization to put ‘top secret’ on the document, to which I replied, how do you do it then? Does he send it by mail and let somebody determine what it is? He has to put Top Secret on the document. He can declassify it right away, which is what they did. They moved it one step below. But what happens is Wilbur Smith is running the Canadian government and they call it the Flying Saucer Program. Wilbur Smith never used the word UFO, ever. He always used the word flying saucer or flying disc. What happens is the Canadians are interested and Wilbur Smith has these ideas for propulsion. He’s this high-level radio engineer; the top guy for the Department of Transport. He goes to the Americans and they’re talking through conferences and he’s negotiating FM radio stations across the border. He talks to people and he says I suddenly find out that it’s a bunch of smoke. Where there’s smoke there has to be fire. He starts digging in and they go through classified channels. They get a guy by the name of Arnold Wright who is the military liaison in Canada. They go through the Canadian Embassy in Washington, and he goes through classified channels and talks to the researchers and development board in the United States, which is the part of the Defense Department that builds the atomic weapons, the atomic bomb. At the time they were working on the hydrogen bomb. He goes through there and according to what Wilbur Smith got, the file comes back and he writes this document and says, we’ve talked to American officials and they have told us the following items: flying saucers exist. It’s a highly classified subject in the United States, rated two points higher than the hydrogen bomb.
It’s of tremendous significance to the Americans and there’s a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush. He was the Science Advisor to President Roosevelt. He’s the guy who worked on the proximity fuse, the atomic bomb, radar, jet engines, plastic explosives … all those inventions during WWII. Vannebar Bush was the guy that ran all of those programs for the scientific side. There was a military side. He was the main guy. Wilbur Smith identifies him in this document that he’s running the program. Then this [detail] that later comes into my download in 2012, which I wouldn’t realize until 2012, was the next line in the document that says we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the flying saucers such as “mental phenomena.” The Americans aren’t doing very well because they’ve said to us we’re working on the program. They’re willing to exchange credentials and talk to us. The key part to that is now we know that aliens are telepathic. You have contactees, experiencers, abductees, etc. All these people are talking about aliens being telepathic. But in 1950 the first abductees would not be known until Betty and Barney Hill’s book came out in the 1960s. The first contactees who have said they’ve gone for rides on flying saucers would not appear until a week after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb. Suddenly all of these people appear. But in 1950 there was nobody in the public who was saying I’m talking to aliens, and aliens are telepathic. So the question is, how did the Americans know to tell the Canadians in this Top Secret memo that mental phenomena was part of the phenomenon? Because if you just watch lights fly around the sky you can’t tell what’s going on.
Alex Tsakiris: There’s a good chance that Hilary Clinton is going to be the next president of the United States. You think that she could be the first president to disclose the truth about UFOs. Why?
Grant Cameron: I think that Hillary Clinton might be the first president ever to disclose exactly what’s going on. She’s given a number of indications that’s she’s the person who’s going to do it. For example, when she was talking to Damon Steer, she actually pointed out in 2007 when she was asked about UFOs, [she] said I’m very interested in that. She said, do you know that the most requested item at the Clinton Library has to do with UFOs? And that’s what dragged me back. I was interested in consciousness. I wasn’t interested in the presidents anymore. And I got dragged back in because I thought I was banging my head against a wall. Suddenly here’s the First Lady–this woman who’s probably going to be the next president–actually knows that the most requested item in the Clinton Library is UFOs and she actually told somebody about it. So that dragged me back in. She has made a number of statements that indicate she’s going to do it. For example, there’s a story and I fight against it in the book. I write a whole section at the end of the book, which says “Does the president know?” Most people in the UFO community will say no. The president’s a puppet. He doesn’t know what’s going on. One of the main people who was putting that story out was Bill Clinton. And Bill Clinton said I tried to get this material but I wasn’t able to get it. I’m embarrassed I didn’t get it. He plays this denial role. There’s a government inside the government. I don’t control it. I’m just this puppet. When Hillary Clinton is asked when she’s on the Jimmy Kimmel show, you can see she has a prepared answer. He proposes the president doesn’t know. He said I had your husband on the show and I asked him about this and he said he didn’t know. So what do you have to say to that? She starts the answer and everybody starts laughing so she stops the answer, waits for the crowd and goes right in there and says with no hemming and hawing, well, I’m going to look again. I’m going to do the investigation again. She’s very authoritative. She’s going to do this as if this is planned. That indicates to me, when you hear Bill talk about it, we don’t know really where to go.
There are a number of other indications. John Podesta has talked about it a number of times. Every time the story seems to stall, John Podesta will come out and he’ll say she’ll have the material in front of her and has to decide what she can release. He’s talked about it before. You have to weight national security versus I’m thinking, secrecy. So she’s not saying she has to go and find the Wizard of Oz; she has to find the evil Cabal; or find out where the documents are. He says she just has to look at the material and disclose as much as [she] can. Then when Hillary talks about it she also says I’m very interested in the subject. She talked to this New York city radio station. She said, I get the material [and] if I can get agreement and it’s not national security…The important part is she says “if I can get agreement” which means she already knows what the process is. She doesn’t say I have to find the Wizard of Oz, I have to find the evil Cabal, she says if I can get “agreement.” And she’s going to have a meeting with somebody. I don’t know who it is. A group of people are going to meet and they are going to make the decision, which makes me think that maybe in 1947; say it’s the MJ12, this elusive theme group. It was 12 to zero in 1947. Then it was 10 to 2; then it was 8 to 4; then it was 6 all. Now it’s 5 to 7. The vote [says] let’s move it. That’s what I’ve heard from the inside. I’ve talked to an experiencer who has a number of high level people chasing him. These are the most important people in the world. They’ve got the answers. They’re dealing with whoever these people are. This [experiencer] has got high level people around him and he showed me a contact to Barack Obama. I couldn’t believe it. He’s showing me these photographs and suddenly I realized he has contact with Barack Obama. What he told me what he had been told by people who are dealing with him is they want it out. They’re just trying to figure out how to do it. They don’t want the government’s fingerprints on it, which almost fits into the Podesta [situation]. Podesta’s going to take the fall. Rather than the president standing up and making the disclosure announcement, they come in through the back door and force this thing out.
[easy-tweet tweet=”it’s completely understandable for people invested in materialism to be skeptical of the simulation hypothesis.”]
Alex Tsakiris: You mention it briefly in your book–the president of the United States is the most powerful person in the world. You also say they are the good guys out to help the nation the best they can. You don’t deny the human failings of our past presidents, be it George Bush or Bill Clinton or any of the rest of them. All of that’s been documented. You don’t deny that but you conclude after reading thousands of these documents and going to the presidential libraries and reading documents in some cases they never thought would be disclosed; or other people would ever see or read. You get the sense that these really are good people trying to do their best even if they don’t always do their best. I respect where you’re coming from but I have to wonder if we look at the evidence we might come to a different conclusion. And if we did come to that conclusion, what would you think about it. Let me run through a couple of points that are in my head and then I want your thought on it.
Grant Cameron: Truman was vice president. Big difference between vice president and president. I will admit that anybody can be out of the loop except for the president of the United States. The vice president doesn’t have to know, the secretary of defense doesn’t have to know. The president has to know constitutionally.
Alex Tsakiris: JFK didn’t know there was a plan afoot to assassinate him so that LBJ could [step in]. He didn’t know that. Truman doesn’t know that Project Paperclip is underway. And they way they run the game on Project Paperclip, they say there are a few of these Nazis we need to bring in. Then what they do is they bring in scores and scores of Nazis, and they spread it to intelligence. Not just the Space Program. He’s never let in on any of that. The point about the shadow government I think is too strong to deny.
Grant Cameron: That’s where I disagree because if you look at the issue, you’ve had 13 presidents that have dealt with this subject. They’ve all done exactly the same thing. There’s been six Republican, seven Democratic administrations, they’ve all done the same thing. This is getting into the conspiracy [issue]. When I went to the library–because I couldn’t find the UFO documents–I would spend time reading the material of the oral histories. I’d read Cheney’s and Rumsfeld. I would read all of these different issues that happened and I would read their explanations, and would [think] that kind of makes sense. What I think the issue is between people who are good and people who think they’re good. I do not believe that anybody in the government thinks I’m an evil guy. I’m an evil guy and I’m going to do evil stuff. Everybody thinks they’re saving the world. This [pertains] to Al’Qaeda and the guy in Florida doing all of these shootings. He’s in the bathroom and he says are there any blacks in here?
Grant Cameron: The Canadians said we were told this is the most highly classified subject in the United States, which makes it known as a “waived unacknowledged special access program.” It’s waived from congressional oversight. There are only a couple of people in Congress who are told about these programs. It’s the highest class, this would be one of them. They’re told orally. That’s it. They’re given special notification the program exists. It’s unacknowledged, which means that even the existence of the program is unacknowledged. If somebody comes to you and you are in this program, you have to lie and deny the program exists. Otherwise, you’re going to jail. It’s unacknowledged. You are not allowed to acknowledge the program. So people are given permission inside the US government to lie. That’s the way you do it. Otherwise you’re going to get, like the situation with Hillary Clinton, she’s in a situation where she’s not releasing classified information.
Alex Tsakiris: You have some amazing FOIA, again Freedom of Information requests. It’s a law in the Untied States that allows any citizen to petition the government for information about a particular topic. If you’re lucky and they’re asleep at the switch, they send it to you. So tell us about your FOIA request related to Rockefeller and this treasure trove that they revealed.
Grant Cameron: As with almost everything in my UFO career I got dragged into it. I really didn’t intend to go there. What happened was Bush was running, Perot was running and Clinton’s running. He tells, according to what Bud Hopkins told me, he said whoever wins I’m going to get you full disclosure.
Alex Tsakiris: This is Rockefeller?
Grant Cameron: Rockefeller talking to Bud Hopkins.
Alex Tsakiris: Even though Rockefeller is, like you said, the black sheep of the family, he knows he’s a Rockefeller and he knows he can get stuff [done].
Grant Cameron: I’m going into the president’s office, and I remember Bud said, Mr. Rockefeller, I don’t think it works like that. I don’t care. I’m going in there and I’m going to tell the president. I’m going to get his thing disclosed. So when Clinton wins he immediately makes his move. And because he’s a Rockefeller and a big campaign contributor to the Democratic party they’ve got to deal with this guy. And this is where I get into the president doesn’t know. Rockefeller never deals with the president. Ever. He gets cut off at the pass by the office of Jack Gibbons who’s the science advisor.
Alex Tsakiris: Just to clarify, you’re suggesting that is a strategy for this idea of plausible deniability? Don’t get too close to the president. So the president in this case, Clinton, has a very intense interest in the topic but he knows because he’s schooled by the people around him, we’ll get you the information but you need to have a little distance; a little plausible deniability with this guy. So that’s how this is orchestrated and plays out.
Grant Cameron: There’s a scientist Ron Pandolfi, who I often reference, who was the top scientist at the CIA. He was supposed be on the “weird desk,” all the paranormal phenomena, UFOs, which is interesting because in the CIA it’s called phenomenology. It’s not called UFOs, it’s phenomenology, which is what I say now. It’s all the same thing. It’s all connected. If you know how it all fits together, it’s the same thing. So he’s the head of the phenomenology department and handling the UFO files and his words are “the president can’t be a player.” That’s what it comes down to. If the president has all of the information we don’t need to be playing with answering questions. Like Bill Clinton described it to Rockefeller when he was at the ranch, he said, this story is like the tar baby. If you touch the tar baby you get stuck to it, then you try to get away from it, and all you do is get more tangled into it. So Rockefeller can’t get to the president, he deals with him at the office of the Science Advisor to the President.
Grant Cameron: [Rockefeller] has hundreds of pages of documents. He sits down and he’s going to tell the president [Clinton]. The president is all into UFOs. He wants to know what’s going on. He doesn’t know what’s going on. Why doesn’t he sit down at the briefing? Lawrence Rockefeller’s woman who ran all of his UFO funding research maintained for sure the president did not sit down at the briefing. So if you believe that the president doesn’t know and he’s trying to figure it out, why didn’t he sit down at the briefing? Only Hillary Clinton sits down at the briefing and at that point she says to him (the next morning) according to what Whitley Strieber’s reporter said–Hilary says to him, now we’ve listened to you, don’t ever bring up the subject again. [Rockefeller] throws up his hands and starts financing other studies.
Alex Tsakiris: The UFO research community has been very slow to accept the experiencer part of this and the consciousness connection. The connection with both telepathy and other PSI phenomena, but also the connection with what most of us would consider spiritual phenomena such as near-death experience, spiritually transformative experiences, and even some of things that fall in between that: DMT (spirit molecule). I just listened to a great interview with Rick Straussman who was on the show. The punch line to the thing is these people go in and have the DMT experience. They go to the other side and they encounter these beings that are no doubt the same beings. They look like it; sound like it; and what do the beings say? “We’ve been waiting for you. We’re glad you’re here.” Something that is very much in line with what you’re saying. What I hope we can pull apart in this last bit of discussion is to what extent should we look for the similarities between the spiritual and the contactee experience? And to what extent should we be cautious about drawing too many parallels between experiences that many would see as dangerous, threatening, or unpleasant? do we really want to draw parallels between those and–you don’t hear that in a near-death experience. What you hear over and over in the near-death experience overwhelmingly is the experience of love, connection, and oneness. Handle that however you’d like
Grant Cameron: I’ll just give you a synopsis of what I started. I actually, at the end of the conference, I’ve been thinking about it and I’m almost prepared to say now to say this may not be ET. It’s definitely much more complex than ET. If you think this is aliens coming from another planet you’re going to be wrong.
Alex Tsakiris: It’s all true. Not that we can funnel it down into one common experience. There’s a variety of different experiences. That’s my concern when we talk about ET and we say it’s ET. Of course it’s ET. Of course there are physical beings. Of course there are probably non-physical beings. It’s all those things and more that probably come from so many more planets that we can even imagine. And are we moving in the wrong direction when we try to funnel it all down and say it’s one experience. It’s phenomenology. And if we don’t look at it through one lens we’re going to miss the point.
Grant Cameron: Let me just explain how I–maybe I’ll handle that later.
Grant Cameron: This is the biggest game in ufology. There are thousands of sightings every year but we say we don’t know what’s going on. We have no idea. Send some money. We need to do an investigation. This is garbage. Science does not work by proving things because you’re never going to prove anything to [Michael] Shermer or any of these other people. It’s worked by working hypotheses. And I have a working hypotheses and actually had a conversation with a Dr. Ingal Lamberdt who’s trained as a Shamanic [practitioner] in Africa. He now works with the indigenous people in New Zealand. We had an hour conversation last weekend and we’re both going down the same road. The working hypotheses is you have a consciousness field. You have this physical environment that we’re in that we’re held in by our left brain. And he was saying the same thing. And we can reproduce these experiments.
Grant Cameron: Once you get out of the left brain that makes us think everything is separate…these people, good guys, bad guys, all that kind of stuff. The people in that environment, whatever that environment is, knows what’s going on. The interview I would [suggest] is with Dr. Stephen Laberge who did lucid dream research at Stanford.
Grant Cameron: The people who are reacting with whatever this phenomenon is, are the only people you can listen to. Otherwise you’re wasting your time. There’s a lot of people in the UFO community who will use the word consciousness, but the scientific community is running the show. Everybody in the UFO community is into this thing, even FREE is into this. No matter how many PhDs they’ve got, everybody’s into this Rodney Dangerfield [syndrome]. We’re the Rodney Dangerfield of all sciences. We need some respect and people will bend over backwards, lie and do whatever they have to do to try and get science to come on board. They’re not coming on board. The National Academy of Sciences, there’s only 4% of people in the top 2000 scientists in the National Academy of Sciences who believe in any sort of paranormal phenomena; only 7% have any experience with God. Forget them. We have to do this ourselves. We cannot try to appease them because they’re the ones that are holding this thing back. They have this materialistic worldview that they’re not going to change. You and I are different because we’re not scientists, we don’t have any vested interest. We’re not going to lose our grants or jobs, we can say whatever we want.
More From Skeptiko
- Andrew Holecek is a recognized expert on lucid dreaming and dream yoga, but is he playing it safe? photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:35] Now I could try and explain how that clip from Step Brothers relates to this …
- Bruce Fenton’s shamanic experience sent him looking for scientific proof of ancient alien contact… and he found it. fina photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:53] That’s a clip from a little Skeptiko movie project episode, kind of experiment that …
- Jasun Horsey has a razor sharp critique of how the occult has become part of our pedocracy culture. photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:09] I have an interview coming up in a minute with Jason Horsley. We talk a …
- Dr. Jeffery Martin seeks to shift our fundamental sense of well being, and his numbers prove he can. photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:59] That’s Will Smith from The Pursuit of Happiness. Boy, I love that movie. And as …
- Charlie Morely is an expert at lucid dreaming, and he’s gone places most wouldn’t dare to go. photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00- 00:00:34] That’s from Inception, a movie that explores a lot of the topics we’re going to be talking …
- Rick DeLano’s movie, The End of Quantum Reality makes a strong case against scientific materialism, but then there’s the Catholic thing. photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00- 00:00:34] That’s South Park talking about what it’s like to go back to Catholic …
- David Ditchfield was pulled under a speeding commuter train, but the spiritual encounters of his NDE left him with new artistic gifts. photo by: Skeptiko [Movie clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:43] That’s Shia LeBeouf from the movie Fury, talking about the …
- Steve Briggs recounts his experiences with Himalayan yogis. photo by: Skeptiko [Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:18] [00:00:18] That’s Kronk from The Emperor’s New Groove struggling with whether to do the right thing. It’s a topic we talk about with today’s guest, …
- Tom Zinser’s clinical psychology practice took a turn when he discovered the difference between darkness and evil. photo by: Skeptiko [Movie clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:23] Nobody plays a deal-making devil better than Al Pacino and no one plays an unsuspecting …
music by: Rafal Mac