David Brody, Romans in America, Beyond Pre-Columbian Silliness |493|

David Brody looks at the substantial archeological evidence of 2nd century Romans in America.

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Audio Clip: [00:00:00] We running on water supplies and I’m tired. If we can’t beat this bunch we might as well give up, its been 47 days now. Dammit! That’s how long the journal said it would last. I got it from one of the prisoners I had.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:00:15] Don’t you just love the Romans? I know I do. That’s a short clip from a BBC documentary on Ancient Rome and that’s the Spasian talking about those pesky Jews that he’s trying to put down in the first revolt in 66 AD. And most importantly, he’s talking about that strange prisoner general Josephus, who makes all these amazing predictions. Boy oh boy, I don’t know where to begin folks, you’re gonna hear a lot on this history of Josephus, The Spasian, the fake fake history that’s told to us that can be demonstrated is fake and can be demonstrated has some deep, deep implications for what the real history probably was. It would take a long time to fill in all the gaps and I can’t really do it here, you’re going to get bits and pieces like you normally do in this show and maybe you can help guide me towards how we can compile this into something meaningful. Maybe you can even help, maybe you know more about these topics than I do. There are many of you out there that I know have some very specialized knowledge. But I have a terrific interview to kick off this series. It’s with a gentleman I really like and respect. And I think he’s written a great book that you’ll enjoy. And he certainly has a fascinating story to tell about the Romans in America in the second century. And he has, I would say, overwhelming archaeological evidence at least compared to the mainstream historical narrative which I got to tell you when we get into this with Dave, but like one little story he tells is he has all this solid archaeology he’s done, coins that he’s found, forts that he’s uncovered or the army core of engineers have uncovered which date back to the second century, date back to being in the hands of the Romans and date back to having connections with Jewish people. And what he faces, an opposition to that research from the mainstream, the ordained history is unbelievably ridiculous. Like again, I want to tell you this little story, like one of the explanations from mainstream history, in terms of how these coins from the second century wind up in the Ohio Valley is, well maybe a bird flew over you know, and had the coin in his beak and dropped it, how stupid is that? Yeah, maybe there was a flock of birds and they all had coins and they dropped them in and around the same place. Another explanation, this is from mainstream history, in order to prop up the ridiculous narrative that they need to promote on this is maybe a coin collector went to the beach and lost his coins on the beach and then they got washed up and they got found. Like yeah you know, hey we’re going to the beach, please swing by my safe deposit box and pick up my collection of golden Roman coins. What’s, you know it’s funny except that this really is kind of what we sometimes square up against when we’re dealing with mainstream history and religious history, which we’ll get later into on this topic. And I think we have to really check ourselves and avoid even engaging in that discussion because it really is so stupid. And when you engage with that kind of stupidity you can’t look anything other than a little bit stupid yourself. As I said there’s a lot more to come on this topic, but I hope you enjoy this one with Dave Brody.

David Brody: [00:04:30] So there’s a human element involved in this as well, but for whatever reason I think the pieces fell together that day. It happened to be the right people making the right deal. It was enough treasure to grease the skids. They somehow knew where to go, don’t forget the Roman legions were comprised of the conquered Phoenician Carthaginian group, so they you know like the Borg and Star Trek, they basically, they just take everybody in and that becomes who they are. And so to the extent they would have the night Legion, by the way was based in the Iberian Peninsula, so they would have had plenty of members who have family experience as part of the Punic Wars and the Carthaginians and the Phoenicians and history of crossing the Atlantic and navigating all that, all those skills would have been part of the night we’d…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:20] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris and today we welcome David Brody to Skeptiko. Dave is an attorney turned historical fiction writer, author of multiple Amazon bestsellers and Boston Globe bestsellers, including his latest which is probably headed in that direction. I think where America, Roman artifacts in America, which is a great fiction story but also is kind of wrapped around this history or this you know, kind of forbidden history kind of thing. That there’s a lot of evidence, archaeological findings and other historical evidence, highly suggestive of Romans being in America and second century. So this is kind of right up my recent interest in this ancient history. I’m of course interested in where that takes us in terms of consciousness and spirituality and some of these other things. But I was really, really impressed with with Dave’s work, particularly what he brings as an attorney. Someone who’s used to kind of sorting through evidence, translate as sorting through bullshit to get to the truth. So I just thought it was a great opportunity and I really enjoyed the book, which the book by the way you know, I just pulled it up, it’s another one of those free read if you’re on Kindle unlimited. Now buy it, of course buy Dave’s book. But if you want to read it for free and if you have Kindle Unlimited you can do that too. So without any further, David Brody welcome to Skeptiko, thanks so much for joining me.

David Brody: [00:07:18] Thanks Alex, thank you for the kind words, thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:07:22] So tell us more about your background and who you are.

David Brody: [00:07:27] Right, so I’m one of those you know, law school graduates, one of those lawyers who always wanted to be a fiction writer, there’s a bunch of us who got, as we graduated college, sort of got pushed off into either law school or you go get your master’s degree in writing or you go to journalism school. Those are sort of the three options for English majors. And I went to law school but I’d always wanted to be a writer and over the years I would sit down on a weekend try to do something. And finally, when my wife and I settled in we had children, I started writing legal thrillers and I had written three of those legal thrillers and was looking around for an idea for a fourth one. This was a 2005 2006 time period, living in a suburb of Boston Western Massachusetts, looking for an idea for what I thought was gonna be a fourth legal thriller. And my daughter came home from school one day in the fourth grade and said, I said what did you do today, of course, in their shoes young enough to actually give me an answer at that point that have nothing, you know, she gave me the answer. And she said, we learned about the legend of Prince Henry Sinclair coming to America 100 years before Columbus and coming to Westford, the town we lived in. And I was like I never heard of that. But it turns out there’s a legend in our town of Scottish explorers, basically island hopping their way across the North Atlantic much as the Norse had done in the early 11th century, coming down the coast, Nova Scotia down past Maine and up the Merrimack River and into the Merrimack Valley. And as a legend went, one of the guys in this group his name was Gunn, James Gunn. Died and to memorialize the death of this night, the group carved an effigy of a night into the Rockledge, top the highest hill in the area and that effigy still exists today and there’s a you know, tourist marker and people come and visit and basically carved into the ledge you can faintly make out a night. You can very clearly make out his sword, his battle sword and that’s the Westford night legend. And I started looking at other sites and artifacts that might be consistent with that legend. This is where the lawyer in me comes out. You talked about it earlier. To me, it’s all about evidence and if we’re gonna have a legend like that okay, legends are fun but if we’re going to try to rewrite history and talk about Columbus being 100 years late to the party, then we should have other evidence. It’s like trying to convince a jury of your case, you’re not going to be able to win the case with one piece of evidence. But if you have six or seven really compelling pieces you can win that case. And so I said if they really were here, there should be other evidence for that. And so I went down that rabbit hole. And quickly what I thought was gonna be my fourth legal thriller turned into a series of 11 historical fiction novels entitled The Templars in America series. And Romaric is the 11th in that series, really not having much to do with The Templars but all of them relate to this whole concept of groups of European and Mediterranean explorers coming across the Atlantic prior to Columbus. The idea that the Atlantic Ocean was a highway and not a barrier. But as you said, it’s all evidence base, you’ve got these sites, you’ve got these artifacts, you’ve got these ancient maps, you got pieces of evidence and either we pay attention to the evidence or we sort of ignore it and put our head in the sand and wonder why we can’t see. And that’s why I’m here today talking to you about this stuff. I’m very passionate about it.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:10:52] Well you know, that’s awesome. And one of the things I really enjoyed about the book and I think other people will too, is you know you have all these links at the end, I don’t know how many pages in Romerica this latest book, but 50 60 depends on if you’re reading it on Kindle, I don’t know. But with all these links you know, so here, good historical links of ships around Plum Island and boom, you can link to it and here those are. So what you’ve really done here is combining, sifting through the archaeological work, the good historical work is that it’s out there. But you’re also pointing out some of the kind of shoddy historical work that’s out there. And particularly, I love the whole pr -Columbian idea because even the term pre-Columbian already kind of pigeonholes you as some kind of conspiracy guy you know, going against the grain kind of thing, rather than just hey, what is the evidence about the earliest visitors to the Americas?

David Brody: [00:12:01] Yeah, you make a good point. So when I started doing this, I started lecturing probably 12 years ago on this subject. And at that time, most people were skeptical to the possibility of anyone here before Columbus, we all grew up with, in 14 192, Columbus sailed the ocean blue and you know, we celebrate Columbus Day in October. But over the past dozen years that ocean liner really has redirected itself. And now, people like you say things like what you just said, which is, why are we even propping up the whole Columbus thing anymore? So in half a generation, we’ve actually made a lot of headway and now people realize yeah, the Norse were definitely here. To me, I always say to people, we know for a fact the Norse were here in the early parts of the 11th century, Leif Erickson all those Icelandic sagas, the north side we know that we’re here, we know they came down at least as far as Northern New Finland and now most experts say that Lonzo Meadow site, which is a stopover point, they came down probably as far as Maine New Brunswick, we’re sure at least New Brunswick. So they’re right on the front of the doorstep of New England already. To me, it would be more surprising if over the next 500 years after the North’s were here that nobody came back. That’s way more surprising than the idea that people did. Like to me it’s 500 years, theres great reasons to come over here trading, mining, crop, whatever it was, economic advantage, lots of all the land you know, the land of plenty, there’s plenty of great reasons for coming over here and it’s part of the human condition to seek out new life and new civilization as Star Trek says. And so again, the idea that the Atlantic Ocean was a barrier during medieval times and before, that’s if that’s a fiction that you know. The church wanted people to be afraid of falling off the edge of the earth if they cross the Atlantic. But that was because they want to maintain control, they wanted, they didn’t want people exploring and being scientific. But most educated people understood that there were, the earth was round and that there were other lands across the Atlantic and this goes back to ancient Atlantis and whatever, but goes way back. But again to me, the takeaway, the surprising thing would have been if nobody came back between the Norse and 1492. That’s almost 500 years. That would be surprising to me.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:14:17] Well, what I think is kind of really interesting where you went there a couple of ways David is one, you’re pushing it way back, at least it seems to us you’re pushing it way back and we’ll dive into that in a minute. But because you’re pushing it back to the second century and you’re pushing…

David Brody: [00:14:33] Right so Rome…

Alex Tsakiris: [00:14:35] But let me just throw in a couple things that I picked up from another interview that I heard you do because you have a kind of broad knowledge of all this stuff that I want to kind of tap into. And that’s that, we’ve kind of moved from one kind of wacky paradigm that we shouldn’t look before Columbus and we’ve moved off of that and now we move to the Oh, okay we can look to kind of the medieval period like you’re saying and the Norse did it you know, but we want to stop there, when really we have no reason to stop there. Like you point out the Phoenicians who are the people in Lebanon right? And they were great seafarers and they kind of sailed all around in boats bigger than Columbus. You could also point out that you know, the whole Easter Island thing. I mean, that’s a harder ocean to cross and you got all that and then you’ve got all the connections in South America. You also got all this other archaeological evidence and pharmacological evidence that’s popped up with you know, Pompei is showing up with cannabis and with cocaine and with other products that only come from the Americas. As our, even you go back to the to the Egyptians and the mummies they’re finding cannabis and cocaine. So really the fact that they’ve even been able to you know, perpetuate this kind of slow, roll it back, begrudgingly give the North you know they’re a little piece is kind of a more controlled narrative. And so you kind of bust through that in kind of a really direct way and just say, well, clearly, that’s all out the window, I’m going to focus on second century and the reason you focus on it is because..

David Brody: [00:16:22] You know I didn’t really bust through the door like you just said, I really, I sort of went through it very slowly when it gets to the second century. So as I’ve been doing the research over the past 14 years about the medieval stuff, periodically I would find sites and artifacts that were older than that. We’ll talk about a lot of them as we go along today. And I would set them aside and say, that’s an interesting curiosity. It’s an outlier or a one off or whatever it might be and at a certain point about a year ago, I started looking at my my pile of outliers and started realizing that an awful lot of them are second century Roman, like more than you would expect to just have random. And I started say huh, and it was about the same time my wife and I relocated to the North Shore of Massachusetts,and I started learning about all the Roman era coins that had been found after major storms in the area. People who go out and metal detect out on a barrier island in Plum Island and as you showed earlier a link to eight shipwrecks. There’s so many shipwrecks off of Plum Island. And I said, geez all these Roman coins, where are they coming from? I mean, they probably weren’t in a colonial ship. Maybe there’s a Roman era ship out there that got disturbed during a storm and coins that were sort of nestled in them got freed up and washed ashore. And that would explain why six or seven different places along the north shore have people who have found these Roman era coins around the second century. So again, there’s evidence and we have evidence, we either have to throw it away and say it’s not credible. But if we do think it’s credible and in this case, I did think it was credible, there has to be a story behind it. How did he get here and why? And again, to go back to your question, I took me a while but I suddenly realize that there’s a lot of it that is second century that I haven’t been able to explain. And so now looking at it sort of freshly and saying okay, maybe all the second century evidence tells a story and that’s how I ended up with the book Romerica. And again, I might have the details of that story wrong, I might have the story wrong. But there is a story to be told here. There is real evidence, real artifacts that have been scientifically proven to date back to the Roman era, there has to be an explanation for how they got here. They didn’t even swim across themselves.

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 18:47] Well, it’s a fun story if you will. It’s a fun book put in a narrative and it’s storytelling and you kind of bounce back and forth between saying you know, stay with me for the story it’ll be fun. But what I’m really trying to do is sprinkle in all this important new history and archaeological stuff. So talk a little bit about the story. It is part of a series but it’s not like somebody has had to read a bunch of the other books in the series. Talk about the book itself.

David Brody: [00:19:16] You read this one first I’m guessing, you didn’t read the other ones, I assume.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:19:19 ] Correct.

David Brody: [00:19:20] You didn’t have time? Yeah, so it’s designed to be standalone and basically the story, I was told as a young author that the best way to be successful as a writer is to write in the genre that you like to read in. And I love to read historical fiction you know, Clive cussler, the thrillers based on historical artifacts, Da Vinci Code type things. So I try to write in that genre too. So people say well, why don’t you write nonfiction and all these artifacts, all this history? And my responses is I think it’s more fun to have a little spoonful of sugar as you’re taking your historical medicine. And history can be fun but can also be exciting, It can be a roller coaster ride you can have really a fun time with it. And that’s what I try to do with this, you’ll get plenty of history. You’ve earlier, Alex showed that, all the footnotes at the end you know, my law professors are really happy with me for putting footnotes at the end in my sources and stuff. Most fiction writers don’t do that. But I want the reader to understand that the history and the sights and the artifacts that I’m writing about, they’re real and they’re authentic, even though the story that carries the reader through the journey. The story itself is fictional but the history that we’re learning about is real. And so that’s one of the reasons why I put the artifacts or the footnotes at the end. And I also put, as you mentioned, pictures of all the sights and pictures of all the artifacts. And because I want the reader to understand, these are real, they were looking at the terracotta. If we’re looking at a terracotta head for Mexico, I want the readers to see that I’m not making that up. And when I say it dates back to a certain date, luminescence testing tells us it’s second century, I’m not making that up. And that’s why I put those footnotes in there because again even though the story itself is fictional, the historical parts of the story are authentic and real.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:15] Yeah, let’s just pop it up on the screen and maybe you want to talk through, you have a number of interesting photographs in the book. And then you also sent me some additional ones you know, coins that have been found and we’ll talk about this. This is a fort shaped like madora, right?

David Brody: [00:21:28] You got a menorah and oil lamp, that’s a fort that was, and this is a drawing from the Army Core of Engineers from 1823 and this is a fort, they call it fort works basically you know, the fort itself is no longer there but you can see that where the outline of the of the Palisades would have been or whatnot. The outline of the old fort, this is 1823 in Ohio.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:53] And for folks,let me just interject, for folks who can’t see it, because most people listen to this show and don’t watch it but…

David Brody: [00: 22:00] Right.

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 22:01] The menorah is clearly, can’t be anything else in this drawing and even the lamp can’t be anything else. So this is going to kind of launch us into a really interesting discussion. But again, I just wanted to emphasize 1824 Army Core of Engineers, where did you find this document?

David Brody: [00:22:25] The Internet’s a great thing. I mean a generation ago Alex you know, I couldn’t have done this research, it would have been impossible, just you would have to go down to Washington DC and crawl your way through the stacks and microfiche and whatnot. But everything’s been digitized now and so if you want to look at Army Core of Engineer drawings, you can go find them. And it really has made, I get the question all the time? How come we’re just learning about second century Roman occupation or exploration of America? And I think the answer is, the clues have always been out there but no individual researcher has been able to put their hands around more than one or two pieces of it because it was all so scattered and spread out now with the intranet, someone like myself would come along and I can find 15 or 20 artifacts and sites in a matter of a few weeks on the internet. Whereas you know, 30 years ago would have taken me decades to do that.

Alex Tsakiris: [00: 23:23] Yeah, that’s cool I mean totally, I think there’s another reason for it, it’s the obvious reason is that you know, there’s a narrative that people are following and you know, I want to switch a little bit from talking about this excellent book that I really do want people to check out, Romerica. Because the research I think you’ll find, if you’re at all intrigued by this point, half an hour into this interview, then you got to read the book because it’s all there, all the links are there, all the information’s there. But I want to try and pull Dave in a little bit of a different direction for selfish reasons for this project that I’m doing because what intrigued me about Romerica was second century Rome. And this strange relationship that it reveals about the relationship between the Roman military and a kind of breakout of that, the relationship between Judea and Rome but also before we even get there I want to go back to what you just said. I’m really suspicious because of my investigation of science, is that the extent to which this narrative is intentionally being controlled which is really kind of obvious, we talked about the pre-Columbian thing but even controlled in the sense that you couldn’t have written this. I’m not so sure you could have written this as a nonfiction book. Well certainly if you were an academic historian you couldn’t have written it.

David Brody: [00:24:59] That’s very true.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:24:59] And what does that say about just the state of academia in general, I’ve been more on the hard sciences but in the soft sciences it’s even worse. I mean, it’s just really kind of controlled, completely controlling the narrative.

David Brody: [00:25:17] You’re 100% right about that I could not have written this as an academic type, unless I wanted to basically commit professional suicide and I would have been laughed out of the faculty lounge at whatever university I happen to be working on at the time. And what’s really telling, I belong to an organization called New England antiquities Research Association and what we do, we go out in the woods and do this research, we look for these ancient sites and artifacts and there’s few 100 people at least in our organization, four or 500 people and very, very, very, very few of them, probably a miniscule number of them are actually historians or archaeologists, most of them are people like myself or like yourself who do this as a hobby because we’re passionate about it. But the people trained in history and archaeology want nothing to do with this. And this goes back to what you said is, is there sort of indoctrinated into these ideas, they learn them going through college, they are punished for thinking outside of that box. When I say punished they’re not allowed to do a thesis on that subject. If they do, they’re not going to be hired to get tenure. They’re basically herded along in a certain way to think the way their professors were thinking. And it’s hard to break out of that. And I don’t think it’s necessarily because there’s a conspiracy to keep the reality and the truth away from us. I don’t think that’s what’s happening. I think instead, it’s just basic human nature that people have staked out a position and academics have staked out a position that certain things are the truth and certain things are reality. And they don’t want to be proven wrong because they don’t want to have egg on their face. And so they dig in their heels, again just human nature, they dig in their heels and they basically put their hands over their ears and close their eyes. I don’t want it you know, Sergeant scheldt I see nothing, I hear nothing. Again, it’s not because there’s a great conspiracy but mostly just because people are selfish and don’t want to have have egg on their face like I said.

David Brody: [00:54:38] You know, I don’t know we’re speculating here but I think it’s you know, somebody has got to be the legion that happens to take the temple while other legions are doing mop up duty in the suburbs and other legions are out at Masada or whatever you know, it’s just somebody’s got to be the legion that happens to be there that day and the priestly families are cowering in the corner saying timeout, waving our white flag saying we surrender, we want to make a deal. And now the deal is, okay, let us live and we’ve got access to all this gold and silver and treasure and we want to buy our freedom, you got to take us with you. And then it requires somebody in that ninth legion to say deal, as opposed to no way we’re bringing it back to the Emperor. So there’s a human element involved in this as well. But for whatever reason, I think the pieces fell together that day, it happened to be the right people making the right deal. It was enough treasure to grease the skids. They somehow knew where to go they, had either blown off course earlier or somehow knew about this land across the Atlantic. Somebody had maybe been there maybe, don’t forget the Roman legions were comprised of the conquered Phoenician Carthaginian group so they you know, like the Borg and Star Trek they basically did, they just take everybody in and that becomes who they are. And so to the extent they would have, the night Legion by the way was based in the Iberian Peninsula, so they would have had plenty of members who have family experience as part of the Punic Wars and the Carthaginians and the Phoenicians and history of crossing the Atlantic and navigating all that, all those skills have been part of the ninth Legion. So again, it’s a speculative the pieces fit in together.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:56:25] It’s great. Can you speak to the independence of the different legions you know again, this is kind of a interesting time period. So the Spasian follows Nero and not directly because in between the Spasian and Nero is this famous, the four Emperor’s in a year kind of thing, which we all kind of gloss over and we talk about these eras like you’re talking about the you know, Obama, Trump, Biden era you know like these are completely different people at all this but we kind of hit them with our lens, we’ve kind of just put them all down as one thing. But imagine four different Emperor’s in a year. And when the Spasian takes over, I know I’m going back a little bit but this is the part that I know, it’s a military thing, right? His soldiers kind of promote him because in the streets of Rome, there’s basically these different legions fighting over who is going to control and who is going to take power. So what have we learned about particularly you know the ninth Legion? Are they these kind of breakaway kind of do it our own way kind of guys? Is it fit? What’s you’re suggesting fit, their personality?

David Brody: [00:57:45] One point on the Spasian and the reason his soldiers are so loyal to him is because he was able to pay them. You know, a lot of times these guys don’t get paid. All of a sudden he’s got the temple treasures. He can start handing out bonuses and everyone’s like yeah, the aim is Spasian. Okay so that makes sense, right? You follow the money okay. As far as the ninth legion goes up, the ninth legion had been stationed in England for a couple of generations, I don’t know the number of decades, many decades. And so many of them were English in a sense that they spoke Welsh, they had political English, cultural attributes and whatnot. And so when they go off to the Middle East to put down the rebellion, they have no interest in staying there, they probably have no real ties to Rome at that point. They’ve been generations worth of them. They’ve married local women in England, their kids have been raised in England maybe they’ve been raised in England. So they’re already inclined to go back and not stay in the Mediterranean area because they’re basically English. And what we find when we get to America in the Ohio River Valley, not just Roman stuff, we find artifacts with Welsh writing on it and Welsh armor, Welsh skeleton. So we find a lot of stuff that ties back to England because that’s where the ninth Legion was based. And a lot of their cultural attributes were English or Welsh. And so that again, that part of the story ties together but it goes back to your question, which is the ninth legion even though they’re quote unquote, Roman doesn’t mean they’re Italian. It just means they’re part of this umbrella that was the Roman Empire which essentially compass most or all of Europe and Middle East and Northern Africa, it’s huge. So to be Roman back then really just meant part of an empire but that wasn’t your ethnicity, necessarily.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:59:32] So Dave we could go on and on and I could try and pepper you with questions and learn more and more. But as far as the book, Romerica Roman Facts in America, which again is a great read and you can get the Kindle version for five bucks or unlimited If you’re Kindle Unlimited you can actually read it for free. You can check out all the…

David Brody: [00:59:55] And by the way, I don’t mean to intrude. Author’s make a nice royalty even when Readers do it from Kindle unlimited. I don’t know if you knew that or not but yeah. I don’t know the difference as to whether people buy the Kindle or read it on Kindle unlimited I basically make the same so not that I do this necessary for the money I try to make these books affordable but you’re not taking anything out of an author’s pocket if you read it on Kindle unlimited.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:00:18] Great, great to know I thought it was a little bit less, especially…

David Brody: [01:00:22] Marginally, it’s not It’s not a big difference.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:00:25] Okay, great. So you know, please do check out Dave’s work all those other great books. What else do we want to tell people, do we want to leave them with in terms of Romerica I realized we haven’t talked about it. I think we talked about it a lot. But what else do we do?

David Brody: [01:00:41] Sure, sure. Yeah , so as you said Kindle or paperback version, I try to keep them affordable. As you said 15 bucks for the paperback and less than five bucks for the Kindle. I can make a lot more money practicing law if hat’s what I was doing it for you know, that’s not my agenda. But I am passionate about this and I do want other people to start focusing in on the idea that the history that we’ve been taught really isn’t as accurate as it could be in that there are waves of explorers who have been crossing the Atlantic long before Columbus. I think that’s an important part of understanding who we are and what the world history is. So you know, I always want to sort of make that commentary at the end. But I’d love to hear from readers if you have any feedback, if you have questions, If you have artifacts, I think one of the things we didn’t talk about today, I’ll talk real quickly. It’s just two days ago I got an email from a guy down in Shenandoah Valley in Virginia who found an ancient Iron works facility there and he carbon dated the bricks, he did luminescence testing on the bricks, second century and he was always already convinced they were Roman and this guy came back second century and he was all excited because my research book ends his and I’m all excited because this is another artifact. So you know readers, if you read my stuff and you’ve got stuff in your backyard give me a call, let me know because it might all fit together and other puzzle piece is added to the Gestalt deck.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:02:09] Yeah, absolutely. I’d go so far as to say, this is the future of really the breakthrough work in this area. And we have to kind of recondition ourselves and say goodbye to academia because every once in a while they’ll stumble on something and it’ll trickle out of their corrupt machine. But really, this is the way that information is going to go is going to come out. And I think we just need to change our focus and not be so surprised you know, oh my God, Dave Brody an attorney has written this, we have to go, no, the other systems completely corrupt and completely rigged to project a certain narrative. So yeah, that’s where you would expect it to come out.

David Brody: [01:02:53] Yeah you know, the Lonsdale meadowside in Northern Finland they were amateur archaeologists, he was an attorney that you know, they had to drag the mainstream archaeology community kicking and screaming up there you know, they didn’t want to come look at it but it seems to be like you said. It seems to always be the amateurs who are pushing the envelope on this and the professionals who will get dragged along you know, hesitantly. But yeah, I think you’re right about that Alex I think this is the way, this kind of research is the way of the future.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:03:28] Dave, great work and thanks again so much for joining me on Skeptiko, it’s been great

David Brody: [01:03:32] My pleasure, you’re a great host. Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:03:36] Thanks again to Dave Brody for joining me on Skeptiko. Check out his book Romerica. I think you’ll really enjoyed, it’s a great read. And as I mentioned a lot of great historical references and links. If you have the Kindle version you just tap and you go right over to the real archaeological finds and other information that he has in there. So do check that out. Question to tee up from this interview boy, I don’t even know where to begin. Maybe this one is a simple one. How fake do you think this history is? In part two Skeptiko, second level is why is it fake? Why is this history so fake? Why do they care about keeping this history fake? Boy, I’m tipping my hand and where I intend to go on this stuff. Let me know your thoughts. Talk to me, talk to me out there, Skeptiko forum or wherever you reach me. Lots of shows coming up till next time. Take care and bye for now.
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