Courtney Brown, The Future of Scientific Remote Viewing |421|



Courtney Brown talks about where remote viewing has been and where it’s headed.


photo by: Skeptiko

Alex Tsakiris: … we are in the middle of disclosure. I mean the New York Times is coming out and saying, “Oh, yeah, there really are UFO videos released by the Department of Defense,” and then, you know, [original remote viewing researcher] Dr. Hal Puthoff is putting his name in there and saying, “Yes, this is all real, and ETs are real and UFOs are real,” and here you are sitting back, Dr. Courtney Brown, and this has kind of been your thing for the longest time. You’re well, well-known inside the remote viewing community as we just talked about, but have you given much thought to where are you are right now, in terms of this stuff that seems to be coming around what you’ve been talking about for so many years? 

Dr. Courtney BrownYeah, it looks like it’s a bit of a wave but we’ve seen these waves happen before and, you know, you just have to, it’s like, just don’t believe it until you actually see it. So some people are coming out and saying some things but in terms of a mass level of disclosure, I don’t think that’s going to happen right away. 


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Alex Tsakiris: Dr. Courtney Brown, thanks for joining me. You know, I did a lengthy introduction to this interview that people will hear before they jump into this conversation, so I don’t need to go over all that again, but I did want to thank you so much for joining me. I think you’re such an important figure inside this, I guess I want to call it consciousness community. Your work is amazing. I think you’re especially important in light of everything that’s going on today, and I’m a little bit surprised when I set up this interview, I was a little bit surprised that, hey, everybody’s got to be talking to this guy about this stuff. 

I mean we are in the middle of disclosure. I mean the New York Times is coming out and saying, “Oh, yeah, there really are UFO videos released by the Department of Defense,” and then, you know, the RV  original guy. Dr. Hal Puthoff is putting his name in there and saying, “Yes, this is all real, and ETs are real and UFOs are real, and here you are sitting back, Dr. Courtney Brown, and this has kind of been your thing for the longest time. You’re well, well-known inside the remote viewing community as we just talked about, but have you given much thought to where are you are right now, in terms of this stuff that seems to be coming around what you’ve been talking about for so many years? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah, it looks like it’s a bit of a wave but we’ve seen these waves happen before and, you know, you just have to, it’s like, just don’t believe it until you actually see it. So some people are coming out and saying some things but in terms of a mass level of disclosure, I don’t think that’s going to happen right away. 

The reason is that the mass level of disclosure where governments actually say, “Yeah, this was going on,” they don’t do that unless they get something big from it, there has to be some reason for it. They’re not going to just unleash that on the public. They’ll keep it going as long as they can. They have to get something back from it.   

Like if they have a full disclosure, you’d have to say, “Okay, well, what did the government get for that?” Not just our government but the Russian government and like, they don’t really get anything for that. The one thing you should erase from your mind permanently is that they’ll do it just to be good guys. I mean that just won’t happen.  

So you’re getting some people come out, but you’re still not getting any articles about it and the level that it needs to be talked about openly. Whether that happens in 2020, I don’t know. Whether it happens in 2021, 22, 23, 25, I don’t know, but the process of making that happen is incremental.  

So unless we keep, just giving this stuff out that we do, it won’t ever happen. So it’s very important that you don’t expect like a sudden wave, like a sudden, immediate, there’ll be an incremental movement and what we do is part of that incremental movement as a good part of it. 

What you’re seeing right now is something that’s very valuable from that perspective of that incremental movement, but it’s the biggie that you’re actually thinking about.  

Alex Tsakiris: Okay, you know, let’s talk about that a little bit and Courtney, you know, I have this little kind of game that I play because it kind of helps move the conversation along and frames it up for people a little bit. I call it Skeptiko Jeopardy where I have a bunch of categories and then you get to pick.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Okay.  

Alex Tsakiris: Since you kind of let us in there, I’m going to take the honor of picking the first one and that is, I want to talk about RV history a little bit because I think that what you said is really important and really significant and I think we have to understand the past before we can understand the future. And I think what you alluded to is part of understanding that past which is, they ain’t going to nothing unless it’s in their interest. 

For one, I guess, I’m very skeptical about the current round of disclosure. I guess, let me deconstruct a couple of things you said because they were so important and there are so many things going off in my head and I have to kind of pull it all back. 

One, I  want to push that a little bit further because I think we’ve seen an unprecedented level of disclosure. Never before, New York Times, the way they pushed that story out there, Fox News, CBS News, everybody coming out. The Department of Defense guy, Elizondo, coming out and saying, “Here are the videos people, these are the videos we took, our Navy fighter pilots and they are real and UFOs are real.” We’ve never seen anything like that.  

Now, the only way I think to interpret that is inside the framework you talked about, which is to immediately step and go, “Hey, what are they playing here, what kind of game?” And the thing that keeps coming back to me from that is Defense Department. Defense Department, Defense Department, Defense Department. I mean, if you look at this latest release that’s all they talk about, and that’s very suspicious from these guys who have manipulated and controlled this information, denied this information.  

So one, I want to kind of push back in that, do you see this as I do, as a unique wave among the waves? This is kind of a unique wave and what might you, I want you to speculate a little bit, what do you think is the agenda? Are they trying to make ET more friendly? Are they trying to make RV, remote viewing, your field more friendly? I mean again, Dr. Hal Puthoff is right in the middle of this. So riding along this tail is the idea that, “Oh, yeah, we’ve been denying the remote viewing stuff over the years, but there’s no need to deny it anymore. This stuff is real.” Do you have any thoughts on any of that?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah. It’s an incremental movement. It’s not something that’s coming out in a way that’s got, like the President’s not making an announcement, congress isn’t coming out with an announcement. And the Defense Deparment, you have to understand, the Defense Department works for the government, so they can’t do things that are totally autonomous. They actually do a lot that’s autonomous, but something like that, they just can’t come out with.  

And you also have to understand that the government, in terms of the elected officials, are not very important in all of this. So the elected officials that were there, they get elected or re-elected every four years or two years or six years, but the real powers behind all of this are financial interests that you don’t see. You just don’t see them and those people don’t want the boat rocked. 

And in terms of the Defense Department, they’re in a very delicate position because they know that politicians get voted out of office, like the Presidents get voted out of office, they just cycle through. So there’s really no reason to tell the President everything. Presidents have had a very difficult time getting real information about the UFO, ET phenomenon. And the Defense Department says, “Why basically should we do that, they are going to cycle out anyway?” And it may be that they do get a file that sort of tells them a bunch of stuff so that the Defense Department can’t be accused of keeping that information totally, but do they get everything? 

So, the Defense Department just can run out the clock with any politician and you don’t really know if you can trust a politician. They’re just a political person that got a lot of votes and do they really have a security clearance? Do they really know how to deal with things? And Defense Department people, they’re there for decades, those are career people and basically they’re in a situation where they can say, “If we wait a couple more years the guy’s gone.” 

Alex Tsakiris: Let me interject a question there, because a great point, I love the run out the clock thing, a great point. But in this case we have, what I always see as an outsider is a political psyop related to the UFO, ET thing. You have John Podesta and the Clintons, who were going to use the disclosure thing and they were open about that before the last election. 

And then the election turned out very surprisingly not in their favor and it looks like now they’ve just gone ahead and rolled that out anyway, right? The same people behind it, the same players and now they just pushed it out. And that’s fine but it does look to me to be completely political, you know. Anyone who doesn’t ask, “Hey, how come everyone who’s pushing this latest round of disclosure seems to be just from one political side,” you know, not whether it’s a good side or a bad side. It’s like two competing corporations if you will. But they do seem to have some operatives inside the Defense Department, or maybe I have that backwards like you’re saying, maybe the Defense Department has them, but there does seem to be other factions involved that are not wanting to disclose or wanting to disclose a different way or wanting to, I don’t know, do something differently. 

So again, I guess I’m pushing that a little bit further. What about the political aspect of the current round of disclosure? What does that tell us about the relationship between the Defense Department and the higher-level secret government, if you will, and what’s going on in the political scene? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, look at Podesta, John Podesta, for example. He was in the administration for a long time. When he was with Hillary Clinton, trying to get her re-elected or her, I’m sorry, her elected, he didn’t have all of the information. All he promised was that he was going to try to push for it and to get some disclosure. 

So even when he was in the White House as someone who was working under the President, he didn’t get it. When Barry Goldwater, former senator from Arizona and political and presidential candidate, who was very much in favor of the government, of the military, called up one of his friends, General friends, who he had a long tie with and said, “Hey, just give me the scoop, what’s going on?” This is his good friend. He got the rudest shut down he said he had ever had. He said basically, “Don’t you ask about this again, period, or you’re done. We’re not talking ever.” And this is a good friend of his just shut them out and said, “No.” 

So Bill Clinton has said that he tried to push but he didn’t really get very far. So on the other hand, if you look at Russia, for example, so not President Putin but the guy who is in between President Putin’s office. He was asked about it and he made some loose comments off the cuff, saying, “No when you get to be president, what they do is they give you a folder and it talks about the ET stuff and the UFO stuff and tells all about the stuff, where they are and what they’re doing and he didn’t say much more than that, but he mentioned there was a folder. 

So that may be just limited to Russia but maybe something similar happens in the United States. So, I mean, the Presidents don’t call me and tell me, so I’m speculating, but we don’t have any overt evidence that the political people have much information about this.  

So what you can say with the Defense Department is that I’m certain that there are some people in the Defense Department that really want to push this and push this closure further, that they think it’s in the planet’s interest and there are others that are saying, “No, why should we do it?” And I’m positive that the economic powers that be absolutely do not want it, because they’re not going to get anything for it. They don’t do anything, they don’t do anything, they have billions and billions and billions, but they don’t give you $10 unless they get something from it. There has to be a reason for it, and I just don’t see it.  

So you’re seeing some leakages coming out but it’s not going to turn out to be an immediate, you know, Presidential announcement, type thing, in my opinion. 

So what we’re doing at Farsight is actually absolutely crucial to that. So we’re not yet being talked about in the New York Times, we’re not yet being talked about on CNN. I’ve been interviewed on CNN a couple of times, but, you know, we’re not being interviewed and talked about on those venues. So, the time is not right for that.  

So what we’re doing is we’re doing all of our projects. We have a huge list of projects that we’ve done that we’ve completed, and we have a continual string of projects. We come out with at least one project a month and we come out with projects that are big projects. The ones we come out with every month in a show we have called Time Cross and the ones we come out with that are really big that we sell are movies, those come out and we sell those on Vimeo. So that’s what we do. 

Then the money that we get from selling our videos, the YouTube money that we get is about a couple of hundred dollars a month, nothing, nothing significant from the advertisements. The money that we get from Vimeo is a couple of thousand, between $2,000 and $5,000 a month depending on whether we have a big thing. Our payroll is $20,000 to $30,000 a month. So you can sort of say where’s the money coming from? 

Well, we do forecasts, we do forecast that nobody sees, economic forecasts and things like that and that’s where our money goes, that’s where our money comes to do things like that. So we have to have a different stream of income to be able to do this, but because we have a different stream of income we can put out these projects. 

So our long-term goal is to be able to make significant YouTube contributions and movie contributions, not to get into the movie theaters, but that are downloadable and that fill in the gap of everything, because when this disclosure moment happens that you’re talking about Alex, that’s when Farsight’s library is going to be incredibly important. That’s when the whole kit and caboodle will be… That’s when the world looks at us in real-time  and says, “What the blankety-blank!” And then they’ll see it. 

So that library has to be ready and that library is also ready for TV series and movies, things like that of these projects. So it’s not like we promised these projects, these are fully completed projects that can be filled out really quickly.  

So that’s what we’re actually doing. We’re completing projects, we’re setting them up. Each one is worth a television series, at least, and some of them are worth movies. And as long as we can keep affording to do them, we’re going to do them.  

So we have two things going on at the same time. We have economic stuff that’s going on and then we have these movies going on. And the people that work with us, our remote viewers, this is their job, this is full time, they work on it every day. They come in, they work to get it done, and they’ve been training with us and working with us and being professionals for four or five years. Some of them have shorter time spans, but some of them are really long and that’s the only way that this could be done. So we knew that we had to pay people to do this, that it couldn’t be done on their own budget, in their free time. This couldn’t be a hobby. This had to be a full-time venture. 

So we picked the people that were good on camera, usually models or actors, and we picked people that have really great presentational skills, and then we pay them. So the typical mode for training people is to have people that want to learn, pay the instructor. So we reversed that, we pay the people and so now we have a loyal set of people and we’re expanding that to be able to scale up to our needs. We have way more work than we can possibly do, so we’re having to expand.  

But that’s that’s what our role is, building for that moment of great disclosure that you’re talking about. Look at it this way Alex. You know this Facebook thing that’s going on that’s got a million signatures saying they’re going to storm Area 51 in September? Well,  I don’t think they’re going to be able to storm Area 51 to look for the extraterrestrials, but that’s gives you an idea of how the public is getting antsy about this subject.  

So that was actually, whether there’s a group of people that will actually try to get into Area 51 or not, the very fact that you have over a million people signing a petition on Facebook, demanding to know what’s in Area 51, that’s actually more important than government disclosure. That’s telling you that the public is actually getting antsy about it. And when you have enough people demanding to know what’s going on and they simply don’t believe the authorities, that they laugh at the authorities, then the autorities start losing control. That’s when it will become something that the powers that be will get something from it. They’ll say, “Okay now if we let it go we maintain control.”  

So that thing that’s going on on Facebook is actually more important than anything else that’s going on, whether there’s actually people that show up on Area 51 or not. I don’t think they’re going to let those people into Area 51 of course, but it is interesting that the movement has started. I’m sort of interested to see how many people sign the thing or click on the thing by the time September rolls around. 

Alex Tsakiris: That’s interesting. You just touched on so many other points that I want to touch on and it’s great that you did. I really appreciate the openness too. 

One thing, let’s jump into, I’m going to pick another category here because you just talked about it. I called it The Farsight Way and the idea is you have a certain way of doing things. We have to first introduce the Farsight Institute and what it is, and you just talked about that a little bit, but you might want to backtrack a little bit and talk about the structure and that this is a non-for-profit organization, but you also have a for-profit organization. You’ve developed this thing called scientific remote viewing. We have talked a little bit about the history of remote viewing and how this was a protocol developed by the military to be somewhat scientific, so it could be repeatable and used for these espionage purposes.  

You, as a trained academic, as a trained, really science guy, a political science guy, but a science guy and understand modeling and statistics said, “Wait a minute. The best methods to be applied here should be like this,” and even in the way that you just described the way you do things, there are so many aspects of that that are embedded in your explanation; why you do things the way that you do, how you select targets, the protocol that you use, the RVers that you choose. And you just brush over the fact that you decided early on, not early on actually, kind of later in the game you decided, “Hey, I need to bring people in cold. Train them in my technique top to bottom. And then I need to control all of these aspects of the remote viewing session, both for the quality and content of what the remote viewing session generates, but also for the presentation video, and how I’m going to present these videos.”  

So, you know, we could spend hours and hours talking about the very impressive protocol and scientific work that you’ve gone into devising this thing that people see, from the outward sense of, “Oh, that’s Farsight Institute. That’s this guy who produces these Hollywood style productions of what they saw in the moon landing,” or, “What really happened when JFK was assassinated, what really happened on 9/11.” And then they’ll see this video as it plays out and they won’t know all this stuff that’s going on behind the scenes.  

So if you will elaborate a little bit on what CRV is and more about the projects, the protocols that I think people will find interesting.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah. Well the original stuff that came out of the military was called CRV, controlled remote viewing, and there were some people that had their own methods that weren’t CRV, such as genomic monocle, but CRV was the one that was taught mostly to the military people. 

That was very interesting. It was an interesting process. It was developed by Ingo Swann and the military people that exist today tend to be very loyal to that approach and that’s fine, that’s good. They’re doing a great contribution and so on, but that’s not the way we work.  

So we started with the CRV methods and we said, “Well, it’s not doing everything we want it to do, it’s just not enough,” and we wanted to put more controls… 

Alex Tsakiris: What do you mean when you say that it’s not enough? Specifically, what were some of the limitations with the CRV, the remote viewing that was done at, most notably at Stanford Research Institute and then was taken out of that and some people did it in the private sector? But like you said, everyone just kind of, “Hey, this is how we learned it. This is how we teach it. This is the protocol we follow.” Some amazing results people can find on the internet of people who are able to be psychic in this remote viewing way. So what were the limitations that you saw that you sought to overcome?  

Understand that the military people don’t think that they have limitations, so I’m just speaking for myself. So the limitations that we had was ask and you shall receive you know, the biblical phrase. Well that applies to remote viewing as well. The whole idea is you don’t get anything unless you ask for it and that’s called probing. You have to actually put the pen on the paper and probe for something. You have to know what you’re asking for and the CRV process doesn’t ask for much. So you’re probing an ideogram and you’re sort of getting whatever you get, but we have landed a whole laundry list of stuff that we wanted the people to ask about. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: The process also, from my point of view, was limited because it didn’t include a mandatory phase of meditation. So when we do it, we have a mandatory phase of meditation that starts first and then after the meditation the viewers rest until there’s no more tiredness to come out and without speaking anything, they then calmly walk over to their desks and start their session and they’re deep, that’s how we do it. 

And that was not a mandatory element in the military stuff, but that really… 

Alex Tsakiris: Let me interject something here because I don’t want people to take things the wrong way. Talk about the probing thing because I know immediately for some people who are really knowledgeable and a lot of people listening to this show are, they’re hearing remote viewing probing and they’re like, “Oh, he’s revealing information about the target. There’s information leakage going on and that explains these amazing results,” and I know that’s not the case. So what do you mean by that?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, we have, instead of… We ask for so many things, we have printed templates that they use on all of their sessions and it’s the same templates for all of their targets. 

So they have to go through an ideogram, the target coordinates and then ideogram, and that’s very similar to the CRV process and then they have to do some basic decoding of those ideograms to figure out if it’s a hard source. Some are hard, some are soft but are mushy, is it natural, man-made, energetics, movement, things like that, artificial.  And then they go into whether it’s static or dynamic or whether it’s complex or simple like a mountain. 

Alex Tsakiris: Let me just add again, because I hate to kind of… You’re doing such an awesome job of giving us the kind of advanced thing, but I want to make sure we don’t leave people in the  me just recap and see if this jives, so people know. 

When you design a target, your remote viewers, people who are viewing that target, let’s say it’s the 9/11 event, they have no knowledge whatsoever of the target that they’re viewing, whether it’s the life of Jesus, 9/11 or some future target on Mars. They have no idea. And then they receive a random number that they generate themselves. So they’re totally in the dark and they’re independent. They don’t talk with each other. These remote viewers come in and they do their session and they don’t know anyone else who’s remote viewing it. They have no idea what the target is, and it’s just like a get ready set go thing.  

And then the next thing that you’re adding to it, is that rather than just say, “Okay, go on that number,” you say, “Go on that random number that you took and now consider these points.” And that’s why some people, when they watch these videos, it sometimes seems strange, the way that they talk. They’re talking about an explosion and then they immediately start talking in another language and say, “I see an event that causes this,” because they don’t want, it’s the old CRV thing, they don’t want to attach any kind of overlay on it.  

So this is all such routine stuff for you and people who really know remote viewing, but I want to make sure people understand that you’re way past that and you’re talking about the differences in the Farsight way, in the way that you do it, is that you’re kind of structuring it a little bit more and you found that to be more effective and then you added the meditation part, which is really interesting too. 

So sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to make sure people understand, and  don’t take some of these things the wrong way.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: You see, with remote viewing you have to get the information out really quickly like within three seconds or the conscious mind will take over. So you have to have a constant flow of things to do. So the first thing is they draw, they write these random numbers and the random numbers don’t mean anything, they’re just a distraction to the conscious mind. So that immediately after the random numbers are written a spontaneous drawing can come out. And then they probe that spontaneous drawing with their pen, and then when they’re probing with their pen, they’re feeling it with the mind, figuring out what it is. And when they do that they they have a list of things that they know they have to feel it, to ask about. Ask and you shall receive. If you just probe it, you may get something, you may not get something, but if you probe it and say, “Is it hard, soft?” Some are hard, some are soft, “Is it a structure?” 

Then with CRV the ideograms are really a very relatively small part of the actual process. What they’re trying to do with the ideograms is they’re trying to go through the ideograms until they have some basic contact with the target so that they can get to something called stage 4. Once they’re in stage 4, that they’re in a matrix and they start going, and then they’re sort of released and they go after stuff. 

Well, we found that the ieograms are the most important part of the entire session. So we don’t want to go through them fast, we want to go through them a lot. So we have a five page, single-spaced set of things that they’re supposed to ask about, that they go through every time they do a session and every time they probe the ideogram. They probe and they ask, “Is it this? Is it this?” And they’re all low level pieces of information. So it’s nothing like, “Is it the Eiffel Tower?” No. They’re all things like, “Is it a hard base surface or a wet base surface? Is there a structure on it? Is it metal? Is it hard? What does it sound like, what are the sounds that are there?” And they have a huge number of five pages, single-space of stuff they’re probing for and they go to that ideogram to do it. 

And after that they get a sketch, plus they get something called a flash sketch, which is a sketch that when they close their eyes, they have a blackboard in front of them, boom, there’s an image that comes. They don’t try to understand it, they just put it on the paper, and then they probe that sketch and try to fill in that sketch. 

Then they probe for any activity and then they probe if they have any pictures, sketches of activity. So that one ideogram leads to five pages of paper. With the CRV that one ideogram is over in one page. And then we do that three times, so you’re talking five pages of paper times three. You’ve got 15 pages plus a ton of sketches. So we don’t even use that so-called matrix for stage 4.  

What we do then is we have five pages with detailed information, tons of pictures and then we do a map procedure where we have them go up, some amount that they choose, 1,000 feet, 2,000 feet, they go at the level of whatever the ideogram was repressenting. Then at the top of it… 

So if the ideogram was representing a building, the first one would be right there at the building, then they’d go up to the top of the building like a bird perched at the top of the building. And then they go, say at 2,000 feet above it and look around. And with each one of those things they are drawing pictures and they’re probing and figuring out what’s going on.  

Then they go down to the base surface and then they go one mile in one direction, one mile in another direction, one mile in four different directions. So they find out what’s around the thing and then they do another set of sketches, and all of these things are in the template it’s actually printed out. There are so many things they have to do, you can’t remember them all even if you’ve done it a thousand times. So it’s the templates asking you what to do.  

So CRV uses blank pieces of paper, but with us we have so many things, ask and you shall receive. We made sure that they had all of those things that they needed to do printed on a piece of paper. 

So those are the big differences, meditation and we use templates and we have them probe for specific items throughout the entire session and the process. The template and the single page, five page list of things they are supposed to look for, those are the same for all the other sessions on the describing physical targets. 

Alex Tsakiris: So that’s terrific and for anyone who’s really into RV protocol, I mean that’s just a treasure trove there and  it’s hard to not understand why, other than your explanation is people just stick with what they know, why other people wouldn’t have moved in these directions because it makes perfectly good sense and I think when we talk about your results you’re going to prove that your results are pretty amazing using this expanded protocol.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah, but you know, we decided long ago that it’s not worthwhile trying to convince anybody of anything. Just let people do whatever they want to do and that’s fine and to get people to do what we wanted to do, we found out that it was impossible to try to persuade them. So that’s why we went out and got people raw and just said, “Okay, we’re going to teach you how to do this exactly the way we want you to do it, and we’re going to pay you.” 

Alex Tsakiris: Let’s talk a little bit about that, let’s just kind of lay it out there. Your current RVers who are featured most prominently in your most recent videos, one, they’re all African-American and people are like, “What’s going on there?” Two of them are these young, very attractive looking women who… 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, they’re all very attractive. 

Alex Tsakiris: Well, they’re all very attractive, and then, you know, you probe a little bit further and it’s really interesting. One African-American guy, he happens to be your son, he’s very good-looking, but he’s your son and he lives in Thailand and the other two. I just love the story behind that. I mean, it’s not particularly politically correct, but it’s like, “Hey,” you know, “I’m into acting, I went and found people who are good actors. I thought they needed to present. I thought they needed to have other skills. I want to give opportunities for particular groups of people, African-Americans, less opportunity, and I had a selfish reason in doing it, is because our culture is built in this way that gives them less opportunities. I’m more likely to retain them if I give them an opportunity and if they develop these skills in a way that I can utilize. 

So correct me if I’m wrong, but I love that explanation for why we see what we see there. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, let me just say really bluntly that race has absolutely zero impact on what we do, meaning my son’s out in Thailand right now trying to organize an Asian version of Farsight and we’re going to be going also out to Africa to organize an African version of Farsight. So race actually has no bearing whatsoever and everybody on Farsight videos up until recently we’re white men. No one ever brought up the issue of race then. 

Alex Tsakiris: Sure.  

So what what does matter to us is youth, meaning we’re trying to appeal to the younger demographic that has really been the last element in the society to be focused on the remote viewing phenomenon. You know, the young shall inherit the earth. So it is very important that we appeal to the younger demographic and we also want to work with people who are great on camera. So models are particularly good or actors are particularly good for that. And then we want to find out which people will stay with us. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: So race doesn’t have any impact at all on that, but I do ask what is the likelihood of the person actually wanting to continue with us to do this because there’s only one real currency? You can always earn more money, but there’s only one real currency that you can’t earn back and that’s years. 

So if you train somebody for a year and then they go off to business school and med school and law school or go off to do, you know, do crop circling or whatever, then you’ve lost that entire year and it doesn’t matter, money is not the issue. The issue is there are only a certain number of years you have to make a dent. So you want to work with people who are going to stay with you. So you want to have talented people.  

So when I interviewed these people that are our current collection of remote viewers, race was never an issue. It was longevity, how long are they going to stay with us, whether they would be great on camera presenting this type of thing. We have to teach them absolutely everything. So it’s not just remote viewing, we teach them all of the presentational skills and everything. And we are going to be going into making short skits like movies but like short ones, that are like three to ten minutes long. Then we’re going to go into longer series, a half hour, that are blending sort of fiction plots with real remote viewing content. 

So imagine Star Trek but not totally fiction, imagine Star Trek but half real and half fiction, so that it’s more entertaining to watch and it’s real acting going on. But at the same time you’re always guessing, “Is that the real part? Is that the fiction part?” So that’s really the orientation that we have.  

Alex Tsakiris: I think that’s terrific and when I watch your videos I do feel like, one, you’ve just advanced the bar so far. You’re just to be congratulated. You’re way out there in a league totally of your own, in terms of taking this information, taking this technique, whatever it is, even though we don’t completely understand it, and kind of operationalizing it for the good, for the common good of everyone to learn stuff rather than weaponizing for evil, you know. I mean, that that’s where you’re at. 

But I do feel sometimes a little bit frustrated with, once I get past the reality of what you’re doing, that this guy really is following these protocols as you just described, and he’s compiling this awesome amount of information that we can’t really dismiss any longer, I want to go exactly where you’re going, which is like, okay, I get it. It’s real Courtney. You’re not faking it. Now show it to me in a way that I can really just kind of get it in a Netflix kind of story. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: That’s where we’re going. Alex, that’s exactly where we are going.  

Alex Tsakiris: Well, that’s exciting man. I’m really looking forward to that.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: We are working on that now. We need a new facility. We have two places that we do our work right now and we need a new facility that’s considerably larger to be able to house more than one person at a time.  

So if you look at all of our videos, you’ll always see that there’s only one person on camera. So we need to have a place that has more than one person on camera. So we’re working on getting such a facility with that, and then it has to have large green screen capabilities as well. So we’re working on that and that will come about. 

You’ll also notice that we’re adding new things each time. So in the last Time Cross show you’ll see that we had some short 30-second videos with a lot of stills blended together, fancy editing, introducing the viewers. So it wasn’t just pop, we’re there, it was a 30-second intro. And so we’re trying to add things that bring sort of the backgrounds of who they are to our shows. 

And then we’re also going to be doing personal blogs that will show up on our other YouTube channel, Farsight Prime, where the viewers talk about their lives and what they do outside of our site and how that sort of blends with what they do in Farsight. 

So, you know, that is a component of what we will do as well and then we will start doing these skits of these Netflix type of things that you’re talking about and that will bring in a much larger audience because they’re fun to watch.  

Not everybody likes to watch video presentations on a whiteboard. Some people can sort of think of that as like going to school and we have to vary what we do in the largest possible sense, in order to gain the interest of people who would like to see this content, but it has to be presented in a nice way.  

So basically we threw out the rules that were originally developed for remote viewing as it came out of the military and we just invented the way we would want to do this in real terms and you’re seeing it sort of, maybe one fifth of the way through, in terms of where we’re actually going and so that’s sort of exciting because you know, now there’s more stuff planned. 

But the people that, you know, complain on our YouTube channel occasionally, it doesn’t happen very often but it does where they say we should go back to this or go back to that. That’s not going to happen. We’re not going back anywhere. We’re marching forward, doing new things, having interesting things to say and presenting things in an interesting way.  

There’s also a fun factor and we’re not going to continue doing this at all unless we’re enjoying ourselves. So having fun making these films is crucial. We’re not working for anybody. We’re working for ourselves. Remember we get the majority of our money from things that you don’t even see. So we’re not working for anybody when we do these videos, we’re working for ourselves and we want to have fun when we do these things, and a lot of fun. We want to have fun just like as if we were in Hollywood movies or we were in a TV series on, you know, some Sci-fi channel or something like that.  

So that’s where we’re headed and we work with people that are going to be with us long term because what we do with the training for remote viewing alone, basic takes nine months and they’re here  all of the time working on that. That’s a lot of investment and then you have to train on presentational skills and then that goes on for a long time as well. It’s a big thing and then we have to start training on acting, we have to start training on everything. We’re even teaching our remote viewers, some of our remote viewers don’t know how to swim and we want to be able to do some video and photo shoots when they’re swimming. So we’re even training them on how to swim. 

If it’s fun we’re going to try to do it and it will have a benefit for everybody because the video product will be better. So rather than hire people for expensive fees that can do everything and they’ll work with you for a day or two and then ask for the money and then go, we find people that want to stay with us for a long term and pay them and this is their job. They don’t get money from other things, this is their primary means of employment. So we have to pay them enough to stay and that’s what we do and if we’re not happy when we’re doing it, you would see bad stuff, you’d see it on the video. So if you see the videos being magnetic, interesting and engaging that’s because they’re having fun when they’re doing all of this  

Alex Tsakiris: Awesome. Courtney where should we go next?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, let’s see. How about targets? That’s a good thing.  

Alex Tsakiris: Let’s talk about targets  then. This is mind-blowing. This is where people usually start when they talk with you because it’s the flashy stuff that blows people away. “Hey, you want to know what happened on the secret Apollo moon missions? Go watch a Farsight video. You want to see what happened to Moses after Exodus? Go watch a Farsight video where these remote viewers have traveled back in time or forward in time and have told you, they’re now going to tell you what would happen.”  

So we’ve talked a lot about the protocol. Tell us about some of your favorite targets, some of the most controversial targets that you’ve had and anything else that you might think about in terms of targets, maybe upcoming targets. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Let me tell you first how targets actually exist. Some people thought, in the beginning they thought it existed because they wrote it on a piece of paper or because the computer picked it. We did a ton of research to try to figure out what causes a remote viewer to focus on one thing and not something else, and what we finally figured out and we’re certain with this now, there’s no ambiguity about it, we will go to our grave saying, “This is it.” I don’t care what anybody says, the remote viewer target is dependent upon the thoughts that the person has who’s analyzing the data for the first time.  

So let’s say you do a session now and somebody a week from now is looking at that target and comparing your data to it on a computer screen, they’re looking at the target and looking at your data and so on. That’s what creates the target. There is a mental telepathic link.  

Alex Tsakiris: Kind of a retrocausation kind of thing. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: That is exactly right. So there’s a mental telepathic link because the person that’s looking at the stuff, that person that you’re doing the session for, so the intent is to satisfy the informational needs of that person. So that person is looking at the target, a picture of the target, that is the thing that creates the focus that the remote viewer goes to. The remote viewer is trying to satisfy that person’s informational needs. So once you have that done, it’s like a laser pointer that focuses at that one thing.  

So once we found out that we had tremendous control over the accuracy of the remote viewers, once we realized how important that was, then we could control it. We understood then that we could get them to go to the right place at the right time. Every time we do a remote viewing session, the desk is cleared, we don’t look at anything else. We pick up the data, pick up the pieces of paper, but we first look at the target and we look at the computer screen. We get the touchy-feely idea what it’s like, you sort of get it in your mind and when it’s there and there’s nothing else, then you look at the data and it works like a charm. If the remote viewing procedures are done correctly, they snap on to that target like a rocket.  

So once we did that we said, “Well, we now have a great flexibility to do these sessions economically,” meaning we can go after a lot of projects because our accuracy rate increased and with the accuracy rate increase we could have projects that come out every month and then every few months for big projects. So we then went into a lot of things.  

Now some of the projects were done early on with remote viewers that are now doing other things. We’re still all friends and we all communicate together and so on, but some of the early projects were done with Daz Smith out in Britain and Dick Allgire and they are two of the best remote viewers on the planet. They’re really great. They use different procedures, they do not use Farsight procedures, but they’re the best in their class in the procedures that they use. And those are the people who did the 911 and the JFK ones and some of the other ones, Phoenix Lights, Aliens on Iapetus, things like that. 

So when we did the 911 one for example, and even the JFK one, I was the stupidest person ever. I designed the targets written on a computer screen, but they were supposed to see what they were supposed to write, what they were supposed to receive and I actually went…  

Alex Tsakiris: Again, let me interject there. Explain that a little bit because I don’t want people to get the wrong impression. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: I write a very explicit description of what… 

Alex Tsakiris: Privately this is you designing the target. No one is going to see this.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Oh, no one ever sees, no one ever sees the target until after all the sessions are done, they’re given to me, they’re scanned in, the video sessions are done. There’s no more remote viewing work that needs to be done. Only then can the remote viewers see the target. 

Alex Tsakiris: Now, do you do any… You are a meditator, you really have been into TM for the longest time, it’s a big part of your daily practice, your mind hack, consciousness hack. Is that a part of what you go into when you’re designing the target, visualizing the target? Do you have anything more to add about the target creation process?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: It is true that I do the TM City program. The viewers do a different, a somewhat similar but different form of meditation that we call Farsight meditation. But every day I’m in meditation two and a half hours, basically, and I’m almost in that state all of the time, because you spend two and a half hours every day in that state, it pretty much seeps into the rest of the day as well. And if I’m upset for any reason, I do not touch anything dealing with remote viewing. If there are any distractions, if there’s some house repair that has to be done, I don’t do anything because that would become part of the target. 

So whatever the thoughts are, I make sure that they’re only thoughts relating to the target and then I write a description of what they’re supposed to be perceiving. It’s very clear. It’s very explicit. For example, it would be the 911 stuff, it would be the the 9/11 events, the Twin Towers that resulted in the collapse of the Twin Towers and so on, and it would be a very explicit statement about the event, the time the event happened and so on, and that’s it. But the remote viewers don’t know that, they just know that it’s a project we started and there’s a target and that’s it. 

So they do that and in fact Daz Smith and Dick Allgire, when they did the 911 stuff, they had no communication between themselves until the very end. And after all of the sessions were in they were going to have a conference call between the two of them, to go over what the target was. And it was in the conference call after all of the sessions were done, the video, paper, everything, they had the meeting and they had an email then from me that they were allowed to open, that I sent right before the conference, and that was what it was. 

Now before the conference Dick Allgire, he told me he couldn’t sleep for two days. He was sweating bullets because like, “What if it wasn’t the 911 stuff?” he said, “This is like crazy, that’s all I saw.”  He said if he was wrong and the target was something else he’s gonna have to quit remote viewing. He was going crazy. 

And apparently I was told that Daz Smith had sweat beating up on his forehead when they were getting ready to open the email that told them the target. Meaning they didn’t know and finally when they saw the 9/11 events was the 9/11 events, it was like apparently a huge moment of relief when they did it. That’s true of all of our stuff because no one really knows what the target is until it’s all done, and then you sort of wonder if you’re going to have to quit remote viewing, if they’re all washed up or whatever. So they did that. 

Now, no doubt, the 9/11 events and the JFK were one of our premium projects that we sold on Vimeo for a number of years, but we’ve gotten to the point where we wanted some of those things to be out just for the historical reference. 

So the 9/11 events and the JFK ones we finally put out for free on YouTube for people to watch. We do not monetize them, so we earn no money from that. We stopped earning money from it, from the sale of the videos on Vimeo. I just felt it was necessary for the public record for this stuff to be out there, for whatever reason just let it be. 

And with the other ones, most of the other ones for our major projects we have a lot of free projects, but we also have the premium projects. So a lot of those like the War in Heaven and Moses Beyond Exodus, those are for sale on Vimeo and they help, when people buy those ones, that really helps us to make the next one. 

Alex Tsakiris: Great Courtney. Okay, where shall we go next? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, you have ET on your screen, do you want to do that?  

Alex Tsakiris: Sure, you’re the guy.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well it’s up to you, it’s up to you. We’ve actually already covered money, we’ve covered targets, we’ve covered the Farsight way, a little bit of RV history. So ET is a good way to round it off. 

Alex Tsakiris: ET.  Let’s talk about… 

Dr. Courtney Brown: When people think of Farsight they often think of, you know, extraterrestrials because we have done a number of extraterrestrial related UFO-related projects and that’s sort of fun. 

You know,  we’re way beyond the point of wondering whether UFOs and aliens exist. So since we’ve done so many targets, so many projects with ET, UFO content, we just know that they exist. So we just sort of said, “Well, let’s find out what they’re doing. What’s the whole story behind them?  

Alex Tsakiris: You know, that in itself is interesting, again in light of the current, you want to call it a wave of disclosure, but inside the current wave of disclosure because you were out there and everyone else is catching up. So before, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, to talk about ET, UFO as directly as you did, just like this is a reality that we face every day through the information we’re getting back, and to talk about it so matter-of-factly back then is astounding. Because to talk about it now isn’t as astounding, it’s just much more mainstream.  

But I want to really, when I think of ET and I think about having the opportunity to talk to you Dr. Courtney Brown, I jump to the kind of level three discussion, which is, what is ET’s role in these extended consciousness realms? What have you found? Is there a cosmic hierarchy, ETs, angels, demons, gods? How does all of this stuff fit together? Is there an agenda? This is something you’ve talked about off and on, bits and pieces, but pull it all together. Are there multiple agendas as many people have speculated? So beyond the reality of ET, what’s the inside story of what’s going on?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: It’s very simple. It’s the old biblical thing again. As above, so below. There are so many groups and they do all their different stuff, it’s just like us down here and they all have their special interests or private interests. They have groups that they group together. It’s just like we have the United Nations. As above, so below. 

And in terms of confusion, just like there’s confusion down below there’s confusion up above. So if you want to know what the ETs are like just look at the planet Earth. That’s what they’re like. There are all types of groups and all types of things going on.  

Now they all have their own special interests. There are some groups that want to just be altruistic and help humanity and so on like that. Other groups have their own special interests for themselves and that they’re pursuing their own stuff. 

So what we found is that it’s very difficult, impossible, it’s just not worth it to try to convince everybody that there are ETs. So what we found is that many groups, even in these paranormal communities, they simply don’t want to talk about extraterrestrials the way we talk about them, and they want instead to hedge their discussions so that they sounds scientific, so that they sound like they’re making very marginal statements that are just a little bit off of what mainstream science says. So they surround it with a lot of statistics, they surround it with… 

And mind you, I don’t mind statistics, I teach statistics at a university. That’s what I do for a living. Mathematical models, that’s what I do for a living. So I’m not opposed to math or statistics but there are a lot of people in the paranormal field who who fill their discussions with very scientific sounding text that almost nobody reads and very large quantities of numbers and the contributions are marginal in my opinion.  

So they are afraid of talking about just UFOs, ETs, extraterrestrials. For example, you can see a paper that’s published in a journal that talks about the study of a UFO photograph and they look at the light as it was diffracted and the different angles under certain things, they’re examining the light. Could the light mean something this way or that way? And they look at the different lensing of the light. For heaven sakes, it’s a craft and like, “Who’s in the craft?” And like, “Where is it going and what’s happening?” And they’re talking about the light this way and that way and at the end of the article you don’t even realize that they’re talking about a spaceship.  

Alex Tsakiris: Well, I think we could take that one step further, right into the ET realm, you know, and we’ve had a discussion more frequently on this show about the work of the FREE Institute, Rey Hernandez and that group who’ve gone out and did fortunately… Again, I’m all for statistics, I’m all for the proper application of the scientific method and what Rey’s group has done is the first academic scientific study of ET contact experience. And what falls out of that again is a lot of statistics. 66% of people found the ET contact positive, healings, this number percent, you know dada dada. But the reason I bring it up is for your point. 

Again, I think we can even get lost in those statistics. He’s done an important job in moving us away from the evil alien thing. But what is the real story behind the numbers and what I have been interested in doing is juxtaposing that with a similar set of numbers and data we get back from the near-death experience phenomenon and that’s, you know, what do those numbers look like?   

I want to roll that all into one big question because the question I’ve been asking people lately and it’s kind of tongue-in-cheek but not really is, does ET have a near-death experience? Does ET have a Life review and see the being of God in the hierarchy of the supreme consciousness? As above, so below. Is there something, is there a hierarchical structure beyond the planetary kind of UN council? Is there a spiritual hierarchical structure to the world, the realm that ET is in?  

Yeah. Well, actually I’m aware of that, actually there’s a big book now, that research that you just referred to, and that’s a little different because they’re talking about experiencers, people who have reported that they have gone through an abduction experience, or a contact  experience and they’re talking about statistics related to how those people experience that. And that’s different from what I was talking about. That’s actually a very useful application of statistics, and that research is actually very interesting. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: But the other people that are doing stuff on, you know, sort of on a more marginal level that’s heavily couched in scientific language, jargon and numbers, their stuff is very important and very interesting but it’s limiting in its scope and they are very, I hate to say it, but they’re very much afraid in my view, to publish anything that’s really sort of further beyond that type of framework that they work within for fear that they’ll be giving up their chance for the mainstream scientific community to accept them.  

So my view is that the mainstream scientific community isn’t worth fighting for in the first place and the mainstream scientific community is not going to accept them no matter how they write their papers, and no matter how they couch their data and statistics.  

Sometimes an article comes out, Daryl Bem for example has done some really amazing stuff and he’s got his article sometimes published in very mainstream psychology journals, which is very surprising, very interesting, and he’s sort of an exception that he’s got some stuff that’s really out there but it is very interesting at the same time.  

Dean Radin has also done some really interesting stuff that’s got published in good venues. But the bulk of the stuff that is out there has a very marginal scope, it doesn’t go beyond the boundaries. So, I’m not criticizing it, I’m really not criticizing it, I’m really glad it’s there. If it wasn’t there someone would have to do it. It’s just that it’s not what we want to do. We don’t want to live within those boundaries. We want to find out the larger questions.  

So those people tend to minimize our contribution, although we do not minimize their contribution. It’s actually necessary to do, it’s just not the way we want to do it. If remote viewing actually works, for heaven’s sakes pay people to learn it, train them for years and years, get them to be good at it and then look to see what they find out. And then put the projects up, and then build a video library with those projects, and then build, as you said, a Netflix type thing to sort of bring it to life. And let it just change the consciousness of the planet just by its existence. So that has a role too in what it is.  

So it’s not that the people who couch your stuff in limited scope but very scientific wording have a problem, they don’t have a problem, they just have borders around what they do and that’s okay. That’s good. 

Alex Tsakiris: It’s not necessarily okay, and I understand the distinction between… 

Dr. Courtney Brown: It is okay because it’s the way they want to make their contribution. It’s just not good enough for what the planet needs right now. The planet needs a wider spectrum of stuff. And so we have a different approach to it and they have their own approach to it. In combination it will work out fine.  

Alex Tsakiris: You have a different approach to it. Amen to that and fantastic. So glad as you just summarize that you’re out there doing it. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Now, if we had our approach only and they didn’t exist, that would be a problem.  

Alex Tsakiris: Yeah, I get what you’re saying, but we have to factor into that the angle that not all of that is what we see. I mean some of those shenanigans,that materialistic consciousness is an illusion, oh this can’t possibly be, part of that is a social engineering project too, right? Because your whole history of remote viewing suggests that or the history of remote viewing suggests that people in the government, whatever that means government, they knew that these extended consciousness realms existed 50 years ago. So they let academia kind of putter along and spit out this nonsense, is that there’s no such thing as consciousness and don’t look there and ESP is a joke, hahaha and, you know, entheogens, that’s not really happening, all that. 

So they perpetuated that and we can say, “Oh, well, gosh, darn, they were just so dumb and stupid,” or we can say they were propped up to kind of tell a particular story in the same way that disclosure 50 years ago was not what it is today, and it was a different message about, oh anyone who says that is tinfoil hatish and stuff like that. So when we see how the message changes we can say, “Oh gosh, we’re the ones out there who made it happen,” or we can say,”This is all part of a social engineering project.”  

So what I was really doing was jumping two steps beyond that. Great, so there’s mainstream academia and they let Daryl Bem get out there and do a couple of papers, but we’ve reviewed that extensively on this show and the blowback from Daryl Bem was also, you know, something that most people can’t endure either. So the message is sent, “You don’t really want to go there if you’re an academic.”  

But I do have to kind of push back on one thing is that Rey Hernandez, a good friend of the show, I support him and support his work financially the best I can. But he’s running into the same traps here. 

When you start publishing, you know, these large surveys, just like they’ve done in NDE and say, “66% of people say this about contact experience, therefore we can conclude that ET is this.” No, I don’t agree. I agree with what you said, which is as above, so below. We have to look at this from a much more broader spiritual perspective. We have to look at the yogi’s. We have to, one, understand that we don’t understand anything outside of this time space reality and we’re just trying to probe around and admit the limits of our knowledge.  

So I think there’s a lot there that we still need to learn. I know you don’t disagree with that, but I do want to bring it back around if you want to comment on any that you could, but I want to bring it back to this question of the larger spiritual aspect to this and not as a spiritual kind of practitioner, but as a kind of spiritual scientist, if you will. Is there a spiritual hierarchy that is outside of the materialistic hierarchy?  

So in this country we have a hierarchy that we can all see and we have an economic hierarchy in the billionaires, in the one percenters and people love that. But then when we move over to the spiritual realm we say, “Well that doesn’t really even matter. They’re playing a different game.” And whatever spiritual truth there is isn’t interested in that game and the NDErs, when people have a near-death experience, then they’re woken up to this other reality where all that stuff doesn’t matter. 

So the question is, where is ET on these materialistic consciousness hierarchy versus spiritual yogic Jesus hierarchy?  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, my personal view on that after doing all the studies that we’ve done and marching forward into the future with new studies, is that there is no such thing as a spiritual anything. There’s just life. And there’s physics for why we can’t see certain life and why we can see other life, but since the remote viewing phenomenon works and you can perceive across time and space and with apparently no time or limitations in distance, obviously our consciousness extends beyond the physical body. 

So one thing we’re absolutely certain about is that the physical body is just a thing. It’s just a physical thing. It’s like a car. And it’s okay to buff it up, put makeup on, it’s okay to do whatever you want with it, work out, build up the muscles, you’re just messing with the car. It’s like taking your car and getting a new paint job. 

So it’s just a thing and you have to have that thing in order to operate in this realm, just like you have to have a car in order to drive on the road.  

So when people die they pop out of the body and then they are the way they were before they had the body. And they see different things because of the physics of the nature of that side of things. 

But to say something like there’s a spiritual thing, that’s sort of putting a woo woo factor on just some aspect of life. Is physics involved in why we have our physical stuff and is physics involved in why we have our non-physical stuff?  

ETs have an ability to travel and blink in and out of what we call our physical reality, in the sense of you see a ship, it will be flying through the atmosphere under great speed and then suddenly it’s off radar and no one can see it. Blink, it’s gone and then it appears, you know, 20 miles down and suddenly reappear somewhere. 

So what they do when they do that, just like you pop out of your body and the physical person can’t see the, you know, the non-physical person anymore, they have technology that… Well, I don’t want to get too much into the physics, but technology that sort of changes the vibration of the ship. Surrounds it with a quantum signature that’s a bit different from what it was before and suddenly we can’t see it anymore. And radar won’t pick it up anymore. The physical reflections of light doesn’t happen, so we can’t see it anymore. And they have technology that they can still see us. 

So when you talk about the spiritual realm you’re really just talking about beings or people or subjects or whatever. And when you talk about religions what you’re talking about is stuff that’s happened with beings, people, subjects, things that have evolved into being religious constructs that we have today, but there’s nothing but people, subjects and everything.  

So what you have is when you have Moses Beyond Exodus and amazing things seem to happen. Well some group made those amazing things happen and humans had to compartmentalize it to make it sort of understandable, so God did it. And there are just beings out there and they have stuff that they do and some of them like to get involved with us and they think if they tweak us this way or tweak us that way the civilization will evolve in a better way, in this way or that way, and we put names on those beings and say this is a God, that is so and so. So that’s what there is.   

Alex Tsakiris: Hold on because there’s so much to process there, this is right in my swing zone. So I guess the first question I’d ask is the question I ask all skeptics and atheists is that is there any meaning to any of this? Is there any meaning to the universe? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah. One thing I’ve concluded for certain is that there is a larger being that some people may want to call God, but there is something, a larger being. You might want to call it a different name. Some people call it, all that is, meaning it’s whatever it is. It’s everything that exists. And there is no such thing as a God that’s separate from you. Basically, everything that’s exist in the universe from a rock, to a computer monitor, to a person, to a inchworm, everything is alive. Absolutely everything, there’s nothing that’s not alive. It’s all the same phenomenon of wave forms that interact and these wave forms produce amalgams of things that sort of congeal together that we see as people and subjects and things. 

Alex Tsakiris: Okay, there is a God. Is there a meaning? Is there a moral imperative? Is there a right and wrong? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: We don’t know. What we do know is that there is nothing but energy in the universe. There’s no such thing as matter and there’s probably no such thing as distance, that goes against mainstream physics I know. But physicists have never ever, ever, ever, found anything solid. If you look at your desk you say, “That’s solid, my body looks solid,” but it’s not, it’s just empty space and molecules. You go into the molecules, it’s empty space and atoms. You going into the atoms, you get empty space and subatomic particles. You go into the subatomic particles, you get empty space and it goes down the rabbit hole.  

They’ve never found anything that’s a solid thing. They just find energy and these particles and the particles are energy manifestations, they come out of wave packets. This is the complicated physics stuff. There’s nothing in the entire universe except energy. E=MC2. Energy equals a scalar multiple of mass. Mass and energy are the same. They’re just different versions of the same thing.  

So what we have throughout the entire universe is energy and that includes us and what you might want to call our souls. There’s nothing existing anywhere in our universe that isn’t energy.  

So what happens is you can say, well then if energy is everything, then we’re thinking, and everything is sort of coming out of energy, so it turns out that in fact, there is such a thing as a larger being that’s composed of all of this energy and this larger being, from the best we can figure it out, I’m speculating, but from the best that we can figure out, this larger being wanted to know what it felt like to be us. It wanted to know what it felt like to live almost an infinite variety of different experiences. And so it broke itself up into little pieces and the pieces interact and they’re called Alex and Courtney and they’re called other things and they’re called Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and it goes on and on and on. So these pieces interact among themselves.  

So, is there a God? Well, there is a larger being that’s alive because we’re alive.  

Alex Tsakiris: Is there a being beyond the larger behing? 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Yeah, if you say, “Courtney, is it possible to speak to God?” I’d say, “Absolutely. I’m doing that right now Alex, it’s you.” And you’re talking to me. We’re all part of that larger thing. And so everything that’s inanimate like a chair or something like that, is also part of that same energy and on some level that we don’t understand everything somehow exists as a living thing.  

And I don’t know, don’t ask me to explain the consciousness of a desk. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t understand all of that, but it’s all part of the same thing.  

And so what we have here is a larger being that we can call all that. Now the real question is, what is the game plan for this all that is? 

Alex Tsakiris: That’s one of the questions, but I want to keep bringing you back. You’re the science guy. You love science. I love science. We just haven’t been allowed to probe science because they keep us spinning on all of this stupid stuff that is pseudoscience.  

So I take the over 200 peer-reviewed studies in the near-death experience science as being significant and important, just like I take the contact experience science and the work that they’ve done as important and I try and merge the two and understand the two.  

I guess I just can’t step past all of that near-death experience science. One, because we understand the physiology there of, particularly people who have had a cardiac arrest and then have a near-death experience. So their heart has stopped, which means that the brain is not functioning the way that would normally produce consciousness and yet they’re having these experiences in the extended consciousness realm. 

Now for you, you might say, “No big deal. We’ve probed extended consciousness realms without the brain, without the body. We get that that exists,” but I take that and say, “Okay then, what do we understand about the content of those experiences?” And what they’re telling us consistently, over and over again, and I interviewed Dr. Jeff Long, radiation oncologist, compiled the largest database, over 3,000 near-death experiences, wrote a New York Times best-selling book and he says, “Alex, they’re talking about God,” and he goes, “this is underreported because people don’t want to deal with it or can’t deal with it or it doesn’t fit into their paradigm,” or like you said, it’s not academically acceptable.  

But this is the overwhelming experience people have, more than seeing the tunnel or more than seeing, you know, all of these other things, it’s God. It’s the experience of a higher being that they understand and associate and understand in this kind of, I understand everything way, right? So in these realms, then it’s like boom, a download of information, “I know everything. I know there’s a God. I know there’s a hierarchy of beings. I know there are great beings,” which you talk about in some of your videos? Great beings, the yogi’s, the masters, the mystics, the Christian mystics are whatever religion mystics.  

These are great beings that seem to be on some kind of spiritual hierarchy. They always talk about a moral imperative. There is a right and wrong. You will judge yourself based on your deeds and you will know as you know down here, you know what’s right and wrong and up there you will know what’s right and wrong. And this is not a religious kind of thing because there’s not some big mean God on a cloud who’s judging you. It is a soul journey, you judging yourself kind of stuff. 

But this data to me, and I call it data because that’s what it is, it seems to be an inescapable part of what we’re talking about. So I gotta  push you there. The blob of consciousness thing, it’s all just life. I think we know more than that at this point, but I’m not sure you quite agree with me. 

Dr. Courtney Brown: Well, this is a good point to wrap up the interview with because it tells you where we don’t know things. So Alex, let me end the interview by saying  we don’t know the answers to that and that there are other people that have their views of what they think is going on and they may be right and they may be wrong. 

But we’re going to keep on plodding along with what we do at Farsight until we fill in as many of the blanks as possible. But the questions that you just asked are the ultimate questions. So, in terms of my own interest, I’m sort of wondering why this being that’s all it is, broke itself up into pieces and like what is that game plan? What is the ultimate thing and I’m interested if that being ever found another being like itself and I’m interested in knowing if it broke itself up into pieces because it experienced pain.  

I mean, we just don’t know the answers to these things and the answers to the questions that you just raised are just as interesting and that’s why it’s so interesting to have so many people raise these questions and write these valuable books about the subject. We don’t know and there’s more that we don’t know than we do know.  

Alex Tsakiris: Awesome. Well again folks our guest has been Dr. Courtney Brown. You’ll find his just incredible work at the Farsight Institute. Please do watch his videos. So many of them are now available for free that he used to sell. Buy the ones that he sells as well because as he said, it’s not the major part of his income, but it does help. 

If you’re interested in the protocol, in the science of this, pick up his book Remote Viewing: The Science and Theory of Non-Physical Perception. It’ll answer a lot of those kind of background questions.  

Dr. Brown, it has been an absolute delight having you on and I appreciate you willing to go through all of these different areas that we took you in. Best of luck with all of your work and thanks again so much for joining me.  

Dr. Courtney Brown: Alex it has been a great pleasure, it was a very interesting interview and I had fun doing it. One last thing, the website for those who want to know is, F-A-R-S-I-G-H-T  

Alex, it’s been great. Thanks so much.  





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