Chris Mathieu, Forbidden Knowledge News – Swapcast |474|


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Hey, I just had an awesome chat with Chris Matthew from forbidden knowledge news. And it was great. So I thought I would share it with everyone here. It is.

Chris Mathieu: [00:00:13] Welcome back to, forbidden knowledge news I’m your host Chris Mathieu. My guest is Alex Tsakiris. Before I bring him on. I want to thank all of you that watch and listened to and support the show. Even though I’m still here on YouTube, I am dead monetized. I’m shadow banned. So get the podcast version of listen.

Sometimes it’s another great way to hear our episodes support our show. And also please subscribe to our backup channel on L B R Uh, finally, I just wanna. Thank all of you that have made donations. You guys are so awesome. I just want to make one more. Thanks to you guys again. Uh, you help us keep rolling right along.

Uh, again, tonight, my guest is Alex Tsakiris. He is an entrepreneur, turned science podcaster who wrote why science is wrong about almost everything. His skeptical show has been running since 2007 and has attracted millions of downloads and a fair amount of attention from those series about frontier science on human consciousness.

The skeptical show is an interview centric, internet radio show, featuring dialogues with leading consciousness, researchers, scholars, and thinkers. Alex. Welcome how you doing tonight?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:24] I’m doing good, Chris. It’s great to be here.

Chris Mathieu: [00:01:27] Yeah, it’s awesome, man. Your show is wonderful. Um, it delves deep into all aspects of consciousness.

You’ve had some of the most brilliant scientists, researchers, authors minds, when it comes to consciousness studies. And I re I really believe that consciousness and the nature of reality are two of the most important and fascinating aspects of our existence on this planet, simulation, dimension of reality, whatever it is that creates our experience here.

Uh, we’re going to discuss that and also aspects of science and religion. That I believe has kept humanity, essentially asleep, enslaved, and unaware of who or what we really are our real history and really hindered our understanding of the nature of reality. But first I’d love to hear how you became interested in consciousness.

And how did your show come

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:26] about? See, there you go. I mean, you’re jumping right in the deepest end of the pool. And now we got to swim back to the other end with you on, on just about everything you said there. And I wasn’t, when I began, I really thought people who talked the way that you just did. We’re nuts.

We’re crazy. You know, and I think, uh, this has been coming up more and more with me and something we could share and chat about is, you know, I, I had a, a while ago, um, I interviewed guy, terrific guy, really brilliant guy. His name is dr. Jeffrey cripple and he’s a professor of religious studies at. Rice university down in Houston and he’s extremely well-respected and he is truly a frontier kind of guy he’s been out there on the edge, pushing a supernatural, super normal in an academic setting.

And he wrote a book with, uh, Whitley Strieber who is fantastic. And I just had a chance to interview. Few weeks ago. So anyway, this is kind of, we’ll give anyone who’s listening and insight into kind of my quirky nature. I love dr. . I got a ton of respect for him, but I don’t agree with him on a lot of stuff, but he did give me this great little insight.

One time he said, yeah, you know, I’m willing to entertain the idea of ITI, but he doesn’t see it as really ITI. Just kind of. Extended consciousness, not sure what it is, you know, lump it all, which I’m not there. I think you got to go with ITI cause ETIs, t-shirt looks like E T at this point more and more, but anyways, I’m bearing the lead cause cripples quote that I’ve used over and over again, he said, yeah, I can go so far, but there’s a crazy line that I won’t cross and his crew and.

His crazy line was underground basis.

Chris Mathieu: [00:04:34] Okay. Okay.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:04:35] Now you and I know that the evidence for underground basis continues to move amount times, go on it. Overwhelming evidence for misinformation about underground basis. Mounts, almost equally as fast, which to me is always, you see in sync with me here, which is to me, kind of a telltale sign, that the original story is true, but the misinformation story is going just as fast.

But anyways, I thought it was so interesting that such a forward-thinking guy, this was his crazy line, you know, and you can’t put that down. Cause you know, we all have, we all have the crazy line. We all have the crazy line, but like. Forbid knowledge news and skeptical. I am in the business personally of redrawing my crazy line on a fricking daily basis.

Chris Mathieu: [00:05:26] Yeah, definitely. I am too. I’m right there with you. I mean, I find once. You know, once you lock down on a belief, you could come across something the next day that could completely just shatter your paradigm. Um, you know, and that happens to me on a daily basis, especially with the own experiences that I’ve had lately it’s completely changed the way I feel and think about the nature of reality.


Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:52] kind of got to tell me about that. You got to tell me about that because I was listening to your show with. Let’s see Mary Helen Hensley. Yes. Dr. Mary Helen Hensley. Fantastic interview. And you did a great job with it, Chris, but you kind of dropped a little seed in there that, Hey, you know, I haven’t had any really extraordinary experiences except until, and then it’s like, you have this incredible experience that you’re talking about.

Chris Mathieu: [00:06:20] Yes. I actually did a whole episode on it. Uh, It was a few days after it happened. And I’ve had a lot of time to process everything since I still don’t understand exactly what happened, but you know, a long story short, I use meditation and I, I fully believe that I made contact with an intelligence outside of my own.

Um, and I had a dialogue with it basically. And, um, whether it was. You know, an angelic being an extra terrestrial or even just my higher self. Um, it, it felt like it had more information than I currently possess, you know, and, and we were in the, the, uh, communication was very psychic. Um, and the love that.

It was a strange feeling of love that came along with it that I could never explain. It was love that I’ve never felt like an unearthly love, something that I could never explain that came along with this whole encounter. Um, and it happened a few days in a row and there was, there was various. Uh, strange, strange things that came along with it, but basically it just changed my, my whole idea on, um, what the, this phenomenon is and how it works and how it interacts with us.

Uh, but basically, I, I, I know that it was something other than myself and it kinda gave me, um, I guess you could say a direction, a sense of direction that I was going in the right direction. And that there was a sense of urgency, of course, globally, with some of the things that are happening right now.

And it was pretty profound. Uh, it was just a, an extraordinary experience that I’m still piecing together the, uh, the pieces today. But I do know that now I have, um, Access to more information, much easier than I than I did before. Um, sometimes I can just get. You know, something comes to mind a lot easier than it, than it has before.

And I can, uh, I can access. It seems like information that I really didn’t know about before, after this experience happened to change a lot of things in my life and I still, uh, I’m still exploring it and it’s, it’s become, you know, kind of like a, a paradigm shift in a game changer for me.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:08:48] How does it fit with, like, you’ve had a couple of guests on that, uh, I’ve talked to as well.

And one guy who I really, I really, really like is dr. Tom Zinzer and there’s not a lot of people who have interviewed him and you did a great job on that one as well. And, but I was listening to that. And then, but I’m particularly interested, Chris, in where your download kind of fit with. His worldview after working with thousands of people who’ve been in this extended realm and have kind of connected with entities, some of the light in some, not so much.

Chris Mathieu: [00:09:28] Um, yeah, his, some of his work with, with people who have had experience with, with beings and entities, as fascinating, when it comes down to, for me is what the understanding that I’m at now is. Uh, everybody’s got a different experience when it comes to, uh, the supernatural or metaphysical experiences for whatever reason.

Um, and I think it’s because of the belief system that’s formed throughout our life. Um, I also think that, um, The ITI phenomenon and the paranormal is connected to our consciousness in ways that we still are having trouble understanding, but it’s, um, It’s very hard to kind of describe how it’s all tied into this, like, um, cloud-based consciousness system, uh, where we can access different realms, um, different consciousness, different entities, uh, all from just going within.

And, um, I think that is the key to, to exploring what the nature of reality is. It’s not in the stars. It’s not looking out with your telescope, trying to make contact with these, these ETS. I think that you can, the place to go is within yourself to find out what’s out, you know, outside of your shelf.

Basically, if you, if you can follow what I mean.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:10:54] I can, but let me kind of drill into that a little bit more like I’ll remind people Tom’s in-user is a clinical psychologist, grand Rapids, Michigan, and he’s kind of reaching the end of his rope in terms of working with people. And he’s retired now, and this is back in the eighties and nineties, he winds up getting a reputation for working with really tough cases.

So he gets a lot of people who are kind of at wit’s end. A lot of people who’ve been subjected to abuse. Satanic ritual abuse in some cases, you know, and they’ll just tell you, man, this is just real. This just happens. And people are traumatized and they come to me, you know, he isn’t so much into a past life regression guy.

He’s a hypnotherapist, right? If you remember. So he puts people into deep hypnosis where they are nonverbal, they can’t talk and they just kind of move the finger, move it one way for yes. When my, for no, but he starts having contact with a spirit guide. Named Jared that’s agrees to help him further help his patients.

So the thing that I think is really impressive about Zinzer. Is, he’s not a guy who was looking to write books or, you know, start some weird cult. He was a guy who was trying to help patients. And even though he acknowledges that he was offered reservation, as soon as he started talking to someone who was doing spirit communication and automatic writing, he was still holding.

To the protocols that he learned as a, getting his doctorate at Texas a and M and working in a state mental institution. So he’s trained, you know, he’s qualified guy, right? So what he, but what he said in his conclusions about that, I’ll just go to one thing that you said, he said his guide, Jared had never incarnated.

I don’t know what that means, but that’s what he said. He said he had materialized a couple of times, but it never incarnated. He said there’s souls. And he speaks all of it and souls, their souls that do that. And then he said, we all, every one of our souls that incarnates you, me, everyone has at least one guide.

And that guide is with us and that guide can change in this and that. Right. So now I pack that back into your story. Do you think you were talking to your spirit guide now?

Chris Mathieu: [00:13:21] That’s, that’s where I am still at kind of, um, undecided newness, because. It could, it very well could be my spirit guide because I do believe that everyone has a spirit guide, but I’m, I’m also now considering the possibility of it being my higher self, uh, something that exists outside of.

Are consciousness, uh, more a part of our, um, something that exists past present and future all the time. That is more part of the, the collective consciousness, but on our own individual basis. Um, and it’s something that, you know, some people call their higher self. Um, I’m still on the fence on whether it was that, that I was speaking to, or if it was an actual spirit guide, um, You know, that is still kind of, um,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:14:22] you say tomato, I say tomato.

That’s one of the things that I, I I’d love Thompson’s I have the utmost respect for him, but I think that his characterization of the differences there, I don’t know that. There, if we’re just talking about semantics, I’m kind of lean more with you. You, you don’t want, I thought it was interesting. Super interesting about your interview with, uh, dr.

Mary Helen. Yeah. Dr. Mary Helen is like, so she has this extraordinary near-death experience, right? Gets in this car accident has all this verifiable stuff that she sees above that turns out to be true. And she blows people’s mind and all the rest of that, but she comes back. She’s completely transformed.

She turns into this amazing healer, but the part, and again, you did a great job. If people didn’t listen to that interview, she’d go back to it. Um, she says, That the most profound thing. And this is, first of all, she confirms what you’re saying about love that it’s just like this indescribable love, and it’s just what it’s all about.

And it’s like, so she, she, in the same way that you say, you know, it’s not like I can describe it. It’s just like, it was like the being the air, the, you know, I was in that kind of feel it. But the other thing she said is she goes, The transformative part for me was the life review. But I like the way that she said, she kind of realized all the sudden that there was no one reviewing her life, but it was her, it was her higher self.

She, she might have not used those words, but that’s what came through to me. And when I was listening to Zinzer. Again, utmost respect for the guy who taught me so much about darkness and evil that I think is so spot on and so important for people to learn and understand, even if you don’t agree with it, understand that guy’s perspective because he’s worked with thousands of people 20 or 30 years.

But man, I can just think that’s how I relate to your story, Chris. It’s always just us. It’s always just our soul, you know, and it’s taken these different roles and it takes this role of being our guide. It takes this role of being our higher self. It takes this role of breaking off into these other things that are very real and get, I mean, that’s my working hypothesis and I’m pre having any kind of extraordinary experience.

I’m just like talking to people, you know, but that’s my, that’s my take. And that’s what I love about your story that you just told me is I think it’s always about us. When I say us. It’s always about our soul. It’s always about our, what do you think about that?

Chris Mathieu: [00:17:06] I am. Right there with you. And it also ties into how, um, I believe we can access, um, unlimited information, uh, by going within and, uh, being able to access some of the, um, I guess, hidden abilities that we’ve, that have been suppressed throughout the years.

Um, I think that. If, you know, there’s very many compelling aspects that you know of this simulation theory are a holographic universe, how we can kind of, um, dig in there and kind of hack reality with what some people consider magic or different, uh, called practices. Um, and I think that is really fascinating how we can also, uh, access.

Uh, parts of reality by, uh, doing things that some people would consider magic, uh, eventually may just be considered science. Um, I think that that’s more fascinating than anything, how we can actually connect to everything through, uh, access of this, um, inward self-conscious.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:18] Can we pause there for a minute?

Cause you kind of put a number of different things on the table that I think are super interesting to me. The magic thing. I think I find myself battling with those folks all the time. And, uh, I, I, I wonder what you think if you you’ve finished that idea that we can somehow manipulate this world through.

Marshaling the forces of these other entities, by saying a certain grimoire certain way or performing a certain ritual. To me, that sounds like total bullshit. It’s it sounds like, you know, my buddy, Chris Knowles, who have you interviewed Chris?

Chris Mathieu: [00:19:01] Uh, not yet. I’d love to, I’d love to,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:19:04] I’m happy to connect you, you know, I’m sure he’d love to do your show.

You got a great show. Yeah. You know, the last time I talked to Chris, he said something really simple and really profound. He said, you know, Why do you think that some demon or entity, whatever you want to call it, that has that degree of control over this world can be marshaled to your benefit because it can be, you know, cause that’s what the, grimoire say.

That’s what they call people. Say you will compel the spirit to do. Bob, how are you going to compel? So some spirit that has that power is going to play that game right there in Louisiana. You know, that people get paid, man. People get played. And why do you think that spirit isn’t playing you? Oh yeah. You draw your pentagram.

You do your little dance and I’ll give you this. I give you this. And then when I want, I’m going to pull the string back and change it. Isn’t that. Isn’t that more in keeping with what we experienced down in this world where people want to fuck with you. People who want to play screw you over that guy.

They’re going to give you something at the beginning, but they’re going to take it back. If they’re evil. Right.

Chris Mathieu: [00:20:18] Yeah. Well, the way I think about it is, um, there’s, there’s some kind of, um, you know, energies that, that we can access through new universe, but as far as, you know, demonic entities and things that we can summon through through magic, um, I consider it more of like, um, Archetypal things that come from our own consciousness that may tend to manifest things through reality, the, because of our power of belief and, uh, the way that, um, that connection works with the nature of reality.

Um, I’m not sure it’s actual entities that we’re making contacts with other than just things that we can do with our own consciousness that have, it’s been kind of buried over the years and centuries. That is a possibility to

Alex Tsakiris: [00:21:09] me. Well, I, I don’t know. We’d have to, you know, I mean, because like when we started off the show, you’re talking about consciousness, right.

And I think to me in, and you kind of asked me a question, I didn’t really answer it. You know, here’s my path on this thing is I kind of started as just kind of a regular guy who was interested in making money. Being successful in the kind of normal world, you know, that’s how I was kind of raised as go out there.

And so I was doing, you know, business, computer business, and I was pretty good at that stuff. I’m pretty smart. And I was an AI artificial intelligence really early on. And that gave me some opportunities and I was a computer programmer and that led some things. And, um, but I always had in the back of my mind that, Hey, if I can make some money, what I really like to do is do this.

You know, who am I, why am I here? Kind of do this deeper analysis. So podcasting was always for me, just kind of this. Undercover way of being able to talk to these really smart people to get answers to these questions that I wanted. So, you know, 10 years ago or whatever, that’s how I started. Just like, Hey, I can call up Dean Raden and talk to him.

If I have a podcast I can call up Rupert Sheldrake can talk to him. If I have a podcast and it worked, it worked great. I got talked up, got to talk to a lot of people, but my thing was science. So I started with this idea of science and in particular frontier science, because I felt like there were these guys who were playing the science game.

And I just mentioned to him, dr. Dean Raden. He is a top. Notch scientists who has explored parapsychology per psychology, completely destroys falsifies. This wacky materialism that we’re totally immeshed with, which I think is a conspiracy. And you and I can talk about that. Most people you have to kind of gently walk into, you know, Oh, I don’t know why they try and convince us that we’re biological robots in a meaningless universe, and that we ought to just go to black Friday and just get on with our meaningless life.

But you and I know that Whoa, man, that starts sounding like a lot of other fricking agendas that I hear over and over. So it took me the longest time. I mean, it’s embarrassingly long time, five, seven years for the light bulb to go out and say science. As we know it is a conspiracy to control to social engineer to make you feel like you’re meaningless to not have a desire to access his extended realms.

And if. God forbid you have the kind of experience that you do, then you should run to the doctor and get meds, man. Don’t, don’t take it in. Don’t dare, you know, Hey, take that download in like you did Chris and say, this is good shit. This changes my life. This changes everything. Right? Because if you are bought into the science thing, you kind of don’t do it.

But anyways, I was very slow to kind of come around to one the conspiratorial part of it, but also the broader implications for that. But I’ll just add this one. Last thing is that I have always maintained kind of this science skepticism about, you know, not everyone who has a near-death experience sees it the same way I have had people on that.

Hey, if you’re experienced, if you don’t see Jesus. It wasn’t a near-death it wasn’t really a near-death experience. We both interviewed David ditch. You’ve interviewed David

Chris Mathieu: [00:24:48] Ditchfield no, I had not had David ditch on yet.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:24:51] Okay. I’m sorry. Um, I interviewed him and there’s, but there’s, and, and he’s very open guy and he’s not like a fire-breathing Christian, but I’ve interviewed other ones who are in D ears and do have that.

So, I mean, I love what you’re saying, but I don’t trust your download. I don’t trust your download. I don’t take that as, you know, gospel, just like Zinzer work with a thousand people. Great. I love it. You know what? The kind of stuff I like you’re down there and humor, right?

Chris Mathieu: [00:25:24] Ah, I’m in Denver now.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:26] Well, you’re Denver.

No shit.

Chris Mathieu: [00:25:28] Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:29] You left Louisiana.

Chris Mathieu: [00:25:30] Yes. I left Louisiana. I am in Denver now.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:35] Denver’s great. Um, now do you like the move or,

Chris Mathieu: [00:25:40] Oh yeah. And join it’s very much so far. It’s beautiful out here. I just got out of here a few days ago, actually.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:45] Wow. You moved permanently just a few days ago?

Chris Mathieu: [00:25:48] Yes. Yes. We’re actually setting up a studio in the living room right now.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:25:54] How exciting for you? That’s fantastic. I’m the first guy talked to in the new, in the new, uh, digs probably. Huh?

Chris Mathieu: [00:26:00] Ah, you’re the second. Yeah. That’s like,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:26:03] dang. Anyways, back in Houma, did you ever run across dr. Jeffrey Long? The near-death experience a researcher?

Chris Mathieu: [00:26:12] I have not. No, I’m not speaking with him. Uh,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:26:16] radiation oncologist, super great guy has done.

Has compiled the largest database of near-death experiences of anybody and has medically reviewed every one of them. So it’s not just like people just sending in things. He’s a medical doctor and a researcher, and he’s let all these in where I’m going with. This is that I don’t trust. Anyone’s just near-death experience account.

But when dr. Long who’s written a couple of New York times bestselling book, Pulls it together in a science way and says 96% of people who have a near-death experience, no longer fear death and Pharaoh death is the number one thing that people fear, you know, if at 94% of people experience this extreme glove that you experienced, I’m not used.

Statistics are just statistics and figures, lie and liars figure, you know, but at the same time, There’s a middle ground there for me, between taking someone’s experience in saying, Oh, that must be the way that it is. And at the same time, I don’t want to do that. And I don’t want to totally rely on Jeff Long.

Oh, these are the statistics. This is the game I think we have to play, or this is the,

Chris Mathieu: [00:27:34] and you know, I, I thought exactly the same way you did before my experience, but it’s one of those things where I think that once it happens to you and you can kind of. Yeah, experience for yourself. Um, and, and know that, you know, what you’re experiencing is, is genuine for you and you believe it wholeheartedly.

It does kind of tend to change. I mean, you can’t, it can’t help, but change, um, change your thoughts on, on things and change the way you perceive reality. And I think that’s what happened for me. And a lot of these people, uh, with these experiences is, you know, by experiencing themselves. It just has to change things.

It, it, it’s just something that happens. And what about the

Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:22] people that come back and say, what about the people come back and say, it’s all about Jesus. And, you know, I didn’t realize that, but if you didn’t,

Chris Mathieu: [00:28:30] I think the, the dogma that people grew up with, uh, Possibly. I mean, cause I don’t know, I don’t know how many, how many near-death experiencers.

Um, you’ve interviewed more than I have, uh, were Christians before they had this near death experience and then had this profound Jesus experience. Are, were they agnostic or, uh, even atheist before the near-death experience and then had this Jesus like experience because I’ve only interviewed a handful of near-death experiencers.

So I’m, I’m interested in this too.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:29:02] I’ll give you two, one guy who I always bring up in is not a bad guy, but he becomes my whipping boy on this topic is in McCormick. Right? And he wrote this book. He was not a big Christian Guy. He was not, I mean, he was like a lapsed Christian, I guess you’d call him. He has a near-death experience, Chris and has a, like, One of the longest near death experience I’ve ever heard.

I mean, he was in the morgue. He was in the, he was, uh, he, he got stung by a box jellyfish that’s really poisonous and he died and, you know, he was dead, dead for hours and boom. Then it comes back to life. And he goes right now, he goes around to churches all over the world and, and he, and he’s convinced because when he meets people in church, they say, you know, they’re the devil, if it’s not Jesus, stuff like that.

No, that was not. And whenever people say that, you know, uh, Oh, that must be their cultural upbringing. Again, go look at Jeff long’s research. If you’re into near death experiences, you’ve got to go look at dr. Jeffrey Long because he has the largest database. And what you’ll find is that that’s not necessarily the case.

He’ll give you the statistics on the correlation between your previous religious beliefs, because he asks that in his survey, what were your previous religious beliefs? How strongly did you believe that? And how much did it change? And it’s not. Uh, there, there isn’t that real huge pattern. So it, and, uh, uh, another one is, um, reverent, a guy who had a really negative hellish near death experience.

Oh. And now the name is going to escape, escape me. But th th there’s several people and David Ditchfield was also a guy. He was not particularly Christian. And he went and he had it and comes back and says, you know, I saw Jesus and it really was Jesus and stuff like that. I just think I’m not willing to accept at this point, the kind of simplistic.

Oh, well, that’s just how they were culturally conditioned the data doesn’t point to that directly, you know, not directly.

Chris Mathieu: [00:31:06] Well, science says that it’s, uh, you know, it could be the release of DMT, uh, this psychedelic substance that, uh, is released into our brain whenever we’re having these experiences, that could change our effect on the way we perceive reality afterwards, just like psychedelics do for a lot of people in their own lives.

What are your thoughts on that? Well,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:31:28] the science doesn’t. Doesn’t support that in a couple of ways, right? So the people who say that are pointing out, something that’s true is that the DMT experience has similar has similarities to the near-death experience. But. Like there’s two different groups who are advancing that.

And it’s really kind of interesting in this larger conspiratorial game that we’re talking about, because one of the groups that are, that are kind of advancing that are really skeptical people of skeptical of the whole near death experience. And they go, Oh, that’s just a DMT experience. And it’s like, do you realize that you are now.

Kind of backtracking on your whole mind equals brain. You are a biological robot thing when you’re suggesting that you can have these extraordinary out of body experiences with this chemical, that is, uh, that when we put you in an FM, RI it doesn’t look like it’s supposed to. So they’re kind of proposing a whole different.

Understanding of neurology than we have. And they’re saying in the future, we’ll develop this other neurology. That’ll explain all this. That is shitty science. It just isn’t the way you have to play with what, with the data that we have. But the other reason it doesn’t fit. And this is what so many people don’t see what it really suggests.

It’s support. It’s more supportive of. The extended consciousness model, which suggests that consciousness is somehow fund the mental and that we are not a product of our brain, but our brain is a product of our consciousness. And that’s what all the data seems to look like. And that our brain is somehow filtering in interpreting consciousness.

And it’s doing it sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a, not so accurate way, but the reason that the DMT experience and the near-death experience look the same is because. They’re both tapping into the non-local extended consciousness and the reason that the shamonic experience, even if there isn’t a hallucinogenics involved, you know, a lot of people, not a lot, but a significant number of people go down to do like the Iowasca experience.

Right. And they never drank the Iowasca, but they have the experience. You know, Raymond Moody the guy who first investigated, uh, dr. Raymond Moody first investigated near-death experiences, coined the term near-death experiences. His latest book is a deep dive into shared death experiences. So a group of people are in the room with the person that’s dying and they experience.

What that person is experiencing as part of their transition, they see the light, they see the deceased relatives. They’re not dying. There’s not a physiological change in their brain, but they are having that experience. But back to the point is near as they have. Looked at this over and over and over again in the near-death experience.

Science, a lot of people don’t understand that it’s science, peer reviewed papers and some of the most trusted medical journals in the world, like the lands they’ve looked for the DMT dump. It’s not there. They’ve also looked at whether these people have the ability to form consciousness, whether they have DMT or anything else in their brain.

And they say the brain. As we understand it in modern neurology is not able to form conscious thought, let alone the most profound experiences of your life when it’s in the state that we know those brains are in. Or at least we think we know because we’ve done work on brains of humans and animals for 50, 60 years and we’ve studied it.

And we say no, when you’re dead. Your dead. And when you hear somebody say, that’s why they call it near death is cause they weren’t really dead. They’re full of shit. It’s just go talk to, you know, some of the, the, the guy I always point to is the leading, uh, resuscitation, one of the leading resuscitation experts in the world.

And, uh, he’ll tell you that. They’re they’re dead by every means that we ever measure it. There people are clinically dead so that no, it it’s a misunderstanding of, uh, the, the DMT experience is actually supportive in a way of. The near-death experience rather than kind of contradicting it that’s.

Chris Mathieu: [00:36:07] So that, that ultimately brings the question.

Why do some people see angels? Why does some people talk to extra terrestrials why does some people have hell experiences? Some people have a life review, um, you know, what are, what are your thoughts on that? Is, is that just because of. That maybe it is some sort of larger simulation that we’re part of.

And there are beings outside of that, that kind of, um, give us these soul contracts or kind of help us incarnate in on this, um, plane of existence or on this planet, or what are your thoughts on that?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:36:49] Well, I’m going to turn the tables on you a minute and ask what your thoughts are on it, but. I, I, my thoughts are along the lines of, again, I’d go back to my buddy Jeff Long is that when you look at the inner w when you look at the experience more broadly, when you really start detailed, uh, surveys with these people and really ask them, Chris, it just lines up with your ex the number one thing that he says, and he says, it’s.

Way under reported because people are fascinated with tunnels and, you know, uh, dead relatives and hellish things. The number one thing he says, statistically, that comes through the first thing that you said, love an indescribable, but completely transformative love. That’s what, that’s what he says. And an undeniable sense.

That there is more, that there is an order. So how does that fit for you?

Chris Mathieu: [00:37:54] That, that fits perfectly because, um, I, you know, I just, the feeling that I had was, you know, it was on earthly love. So there is a plane of existence beyond where we are, where, uh, there are different types of feelings and we exist in a different type of form.

Uh, I believe that a hundred percent.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:38:18] Well, yeah, to me, that’s consistent with what? Um, Without what I keep hearing and, you know, and once you start looking for it, it, it pops up beyond the near-death experience. Definitely. You know? So

Chris Mathieu: [00:38:31] now what percentage would you say, uh, you know, with all the, the guests you’ve had that have had near death experiences have the soul contract experience?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:38:43] Tell me what you’re, what you mean by that?

Chris Mathieu: [00:38:46] Uh, well, Do you th the do most of the people that have near death experience come back with this life review, um, that they’ve been shown, you know, good or bad things they’ve done in their life and come back with a sense of what they should have done better, or if they’ve, you know, lived their life.


Alex Tsakiris: [00:39:06] well, again, I thought the interview you did with, uh, dr. Mary Ellen Hensley was one of the most. I mean, she lays it out. She’s incredible. She just lays it out. Exactly. And she’s not like saying this is the only way she just saying the way that she experienced it, but that is consistent with what I’ve heard is that the most profound thing about the life review and the life contract is that you’re the one doing the review.

Which is really a condemnation of the phony frickin religion that has been jammed down. Most of our thoughts, most of us from the beginning. Totally. Co-opting our true experience with. That light that divine in saying, Oh no, no, no, no. I will mediate that. I will tell you what God really wants and God is waiting there to judge you.

And then you talk to, he’s been like up. Oh, no, it’s the opposite of that. All the, the, the other entities that I felt there were completely in support of me. There were saying now, Chris it’s it’s really okay. You know, you’re, you’re totally loved Chris and meanwhile, Chris has gone all, but I could have done so much.

How did I do that? How did I hurt that person like that? I was just, it was just so careless. Why did I do that? And then look at another part and go, wow, I did that little thing and I didn’t think it was such a great thing and look how well it turned out that just comes through over and over again. I’m not making this shit up.

I’m just saying that if you just go study it, that’s what comes through. Again, and again, and the other thing that she said that I thought was really profound in your interview, and it really resonated with me, I’m telling you it was a great interview. Was this sense that it’s you, that ultimately it’s just you, you made.

The contract, like when you and, uh, Mary Holland were talking about the crazy time that we live in and she was so congrats didn’t she immediately said, yeah, but Chris, we chose this, we chose this. And then she gave a great example. She goes and keep in mind. There’s some little kid starving in Yemen or Africa who, you know, just walked up and it got a little handful of food and that’s all he’s going to eat for the next five days.

And he’s here at this exact same time, and he’s not having any of this experience that you’re having, but he, he knows that too. He chose that. That would be his experience to me. That’s not only profound, but that is just consistent with so many of the people I’ve talked to that are, what would, is that, how does that feel?

How does that fit with your download?

Chris Mathieu: [00:42:11] Um, it really does. And more and more actually, because the more I look back and reflect on it, the more it resonates me with, you know, it’s, it’s just it’s us and it’s our experience. Um, and that, you know, we do have this, um, Overall, um, Sense of purpose before we come here.

And, uh, we can choose to fulfill that purpose or not. I also believe that. Um, but you did, you did bring up something that I do want to get to before it gets too late into the show. You talked about some religious dog. I want to get to that. Um, because. The decision-makers that we always talk about that use Abrahamic religions as the division tool, as the slavery tool, uh, the, think that behind it, they’re actually practicing their own occult beliefs, or do you think they think it’s all BS and just don’t want.

To acknowledge spirituality, um, or, you know, do you think these elites really have these, a cult satanic practices that they’re doing? Uh, I’d like to get your thoughts

Alex Tsakiris: [00:43:23] on that? Well, I think it’s complicated because I think all of us are complicated in like, like back to your interview with like Zinzer and I take Thompson’s are a little bit differently even than he does, because I kind of have this yoga bent to it.

And like one of the things I like. From the, the yoga Vedic kind of thought is this idea of a, samskara this idea that you develop these blockages and some of them are kind of innocent blockages. You know, you see a stick on the ground, you think it’s a snake, you junk, you know, and now you have that, but that’s in Uman.

I mean, there’s a little something that’s going to have to be deal dealt with. And I think if you listen carefully to like the extremely, uh, people who become. Very consumed with evil. Like you go watch the Ted Bundy tapes, you know, on Netflix, which is horrible. I don’t even watch that stuff, but I did sit down and watch that my wife, and he says, Hey, you know, it, this.

Possession, this evil, this demon, this, he doesn’t call it a demon. He does, you know, this entity, but that he was just a little bit interested and then he became a little bit more interested. And then the more he got into kind of these weird sexual perversions, the more it kind of took over. So. I guess what I’m saying to answer your question is I think there’s just a huge, unlimited variety that we all experience in terms of how we process, you know, all that craziness.

I think there’s plenty of people. Like I grew up in a Greek Orthodox church. Right. I thought it was bullshit from the beginning, but it was kind of easier to see through because it was all in Greek and, you know, I was like, I’m not, I’m half Greek, but I’m not, I’m hearing. Outside of Chicago and I, why are all these people doing all this stuff?

So it seems so foreign. It seems so ridiculous. It seems so absurd, but you know what? They were pushing, same buttons. You say this prayer this way, motherfucker. And you put this clause in there and you say it in this way so that Jesus will hear it. How was that any different than some, a cult guy saying you draw your pentagram like this and you sharpen your right.

It’s the same thing of some guy tried to control you. But, but here’s my point is that like my grandmother, Yaya, she is one of the most spiritual people I know. And she followed the Greek Orthodox religion and she found it incredible. Spiritual truth in it too. I think God is like a light. I mean, that light just fucking and shines, man.

It don’t fucking, it shines, you know, however you get one of you nod your head, you know what I mean? It don’t care. I mean, it’s like, you want to go around it. You want to get through it. You want to fuck it up. That’s your. What do you think?

Chris Mathieu: [00:46:15] Yeah, definitely. I mean, that light shines and it, but what purpose perplexes me about it is the nature of evil and the psychopaths that we see in modern leadership roles and the amount of people that you know, can just be corrupted by.

Power money. And I think, you know, do you think everyone is born without evil and that they were just corrupted through this power and greed or, uh, you know, is it just part of our nature to have this evil in us? Um, you know, were, were, these, were these psychopaths that run our country? Were they good at some point?

Um, and just got corrupted, uh, you know, ho how do you think, what are your, what are your thoughts on the way this works with, with the nature of evil. In psychopathy.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:47:04] I don’t know, man. I wrestle with that one too, you know, and I just hear bits and pieces in these different things that kind of resonate with me at different times.

So I’m not like, I can’t say that I’m coming down from on any of this, or I certainly don’t know this. It’s just two guys talking here, but again, you know, Tom Zinsser is not the be all end all, but I like his methodology. I like people who kind of stick to a scientific methodology, which he does. And I think what I hear him saying is no one comes with a clean slate.

Like you said you have your soul contract, some people’s soul contract. Isn’t exactly perfectly clean. You know, they’re, they’ve agreed to put themselves in a situation where they’re going to have to dig themselves out of some shit. You know what I mean? And other people come in with a different kind of soul contract.

Some people come in with past lives that they need to clean up. Some people don’t, some people are, you know, so that’s, that’s my answer to it. W what do, what do you think.

Chris Mathieu: [00:48:10] Well, um, I think, you know, I think that it, most, for most people it’s introduced in their lives. I think that everybody has the potential for, for evil.

But, uh, I think for, especially the ones in leadership roles, a lot of them were, you know, bred for it. Um, it’s there’s they have, you know, these families that. That just breed evil and hate into you so that you can be a good leader, be a good ruler and, you know, perpetuate some of the, uh, the agendas and rules that have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years.

That’s just my personal thought on that one.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:48:50] I got to tell you a story because this thing, this blew me away. I’m not a big astrology person, but I’m really like science just. I wrote a book called why science is wrong, but I always go back to science because you know, people who just kind of FreeWheel it and don’t have any kind of basis for organizing their thought and their reason, nothing pisses me off more, you know, at least start with science, falsify it, use it as a framework.

Science is a method. It’s not a position statement, you know? So it’s not science doesn’t know anything. It’s just a set of tools. Right. Okay. So I there’s this woman and. Who somebody a skeptical listener says, yes, got to check out Renee Alsop. And she’s written this paper on astrology and she got it published in the journal of scientific exploration.

Now I happen to know because I’ve interviewed the editor and a couple of the board members on the journal of scientific exploration, that it is an extremely sophisticated. Publication with some really, really smart people. Almost all of them are, have credentials at universities. Not that that’s the be all end all, but it ain’t a bad starting point to say that person has, you know, achieved professorship at some university.

Okay. Anyways. I know that the JSE is hard to get in. I know peer review at the JSC means something. So I’m all perked up to talk to Renee. I talked to Renee and I kind of give her a hard time, like I’m prone to do. It’s got to go. And she almost blows me off, but I’m like, look, Renee. You got something here, but you gotta be able to, you gotta be able to deliver the goods.

You gotta be able to take the pressure. You can’t just accept people just acknowledge because you think you did some great research. Well, it turns out she did some great brick and research. Here’s what she did. Check this out, Chris. She said, okay, I’m into astrology. I’m into Vedic astrology. And my teacher.

Way back from the beginning said there is this well-known pattern in the stars. So the Vedic astrology is kind of Indian Australia. It’s slightly different. You know that there, if there is this relationship in the stars, when you are born, you will have a lot of followers. So she goes, Hmm, mean, I suppose that means in modern days, She goes right to Twitter and she goes, and this stuff is publicly available.

She got the top thousand, uh, most followed people on Twitter. And then she went and access the public records. Some there’s a ton of people that had done public astrology readings on them. And she cross correlated them in a very. Sophisticated statistic way, Monte Carlo, uh, you know, re regression, you know, all this, I mean, you gotta read it.

It’s like, wait, what beyond next level kind of stuff. What she finds. Unbelievable correlation between, uh, if you had that pattern in your stars and your number of followers. So the top hundred people, you know, have way, way. I mean, it’s just really significant disproportionate. You know, propensity to have that.

I’m like, what does that mean? And the other thing is that this is like a fun, I know where you go with this, but it’s like, like, it is, like we’re saying at the beginning where your mind is kind of blown again, and you’re like, What does that mean about my whole life? You know, my whole life is determined by the stars that I am somehow really connected with that phony baloney astrology, bullshit.

It’s not bullshit. And somehow that connects me, you know,

Chris Mathieu: [00:52:53] Yeah, it it’s mind blowing. Cause I agree with you a hundred percent about astrology. Um, when I first started looking at it, I was a skeptic of course, but the I’ve had astrologers on I’ve had people also, the way it ties into numerology is fascinating as well.

Uh, but the links to, to the planets and our birth charts and. The way we live our lives. It is completely amazing. And in sync and, uh, fascinating. I just, I can’t get over how, how much astrology, uh, is, has significance over our lives. It is great. Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:53:34] It just, it totally doesn’t make any it’s, it’s freeing in a way, if you can get on the other side of it, right.

And you’re not in your head, you can kind of just. Maybe not take things quite so seriously, you know, and all this craziness that’s going on. It’s like, maybe

Chris Mathieu: [00:53:50] I loved it. I loved it. Term life is like an ocean. You just have to go with the flow or else you’re just going to drown because that’s the way it just seems sometimes.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:53:59] I agree.

Chris Mathieu: [00:54:00] Yeah. Now I want to, I don’t want to spend too much time on any, um, current events, but this year I think more conspiracy has been proven reality than any other year in modern history. Um, there’s massive agendas going on left and right. Especially when it comes to an attack on our consciousness, the media, psychological warfare campaigns, uh, we have big tech takeover, censorship.

Of course Rona madness. Uh, I see a shaky future at best. What, what do you think happened in 2020? What what’s it going on?

Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:38] No, in terms of like, what happened, like to segue from the astrology thing? I have no idea,

Chris Mathieu: [00:54:45] you know, even, even aside from astrology, uh,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:50] was like,

Chris Mathieu: [00:54:50] you know, all of a sudden let’s just, uh, let’s have the whole world, uh, turn upside down.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:59] I’m hesitant like you are to go there too far, because I feel like everybody wants to, and that, you know, you look at like a nine 11, like you’ve done a bunch of shows on nine 11. I haven’t really listened to a lot of them, but it’s like, man, think about it. Nine 11. That’s coming on 2120 years, you know? We still unraveling it or, you know, JFK.

Uh didn’t you do a show recently?

Chris Mathieu: [00:55:28] My, my producer and co-host he he’s writing a book on JFK. So we do frequent JFK shows. Yeah.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:55:35] I thought I heard one. I think JFK’s fascinating. I like never get, never, never get tired of it now there’s enough distance on it, you know, and it was really kind of before my time, but there’s enough distance on it that you can just kind of.

Read it like a, a history novel, and it’s like, You know, if we, if, if that, if it takes that lens to really be able to process some of that stuff, why are we jumping around? Right. And to process this right now, I mean, we know we’re right in the middle of it. It’s good to know that it’s a plan. DEMEC that it’s, you know, it’s kind of shown now by their own data, that it isn’t what they claimed, whatever it is, you know?

Um, It’s real. Oh man. I just went through that whole thing. I mean, maybe I’m also exhausted just because I had David icon. Have you ever interviewed dividends?

Chris Mathieu: [00:56:29] Yes, I have. I’m having them back in January too.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:56:31] Oh, I just, I just saw your, I just saw your thing dividends. So let’s talk, David. I let’s talk. Let’s talk shit on people.

I love David egg. I have the utmost respect for David. I, I, I, this, uh, new book that I have, there’s a chapter from David hype guys stuck it right in there. My interview with him. And when I talked to normies, I always lead off with fucking David. I, cause I like to put it right in their face and I go, what do you think?

Right. Tell me, I know. Lizard people. I

Chris Mathieu: [00:57:03] go, yeah, exactly. That’s the first thing you hear,

Alex Tsakiris: [00:57:06] right? Lizard people. Well, let me tell you what else David Ike said, you know, let me tell you about his understanding of consciousness, which is like next level and puts Neil deGrasse. Tyson makes him look like a knit.

Wit, you know, let’s talk about his understanding of religion and the God program, which we still can’t get a straight answer from anyone who stands up there in any kind of position of authority and can say anything as clearly, and as directly as David, I can. And then you want to talk about lizard people, go talk to ’em.

Already six killer Clark, well, somewhat doctor already six killer Clark, someone I interviewed who wrote the book, a star people and wrote several books on it. And is a professor of anthropology at, uh, where is it not Idaho state? I think it a college in the, in the West, you know, and she’s native American.

She interviewed hundreds of native American people. Shape-shifting shape-shifting all over the place. Lizard, uh, reptilian. I mean, keep, check, check ourselves. I’m for you and I, Chris is nothing, but for normies, you, we are in a, uh, after disclosures disclosure, right? I mean, you get that right. It’s in the New York times, right?

People it’s on CBS news. It’s Tucker Carlson. It’s the videos. It’s, it’s not. We can’t pretend like it’s 20 years ago, we are after disclosure. So now who looks more like a jerk, uh, David Ike, or you who, you know, denied it when all the evidence was right there. So the, I stand with David. I, I have the ton of admiration for David, but when I interviewed him and I heard, he, you know, he thinks COVID doesn’t exist.

The virus, doesn’t it. I had to check them on that. I go, David, I, you don’t really believe that. Do you?

Chris Mathieu: [00:59:02] I said, definitely something. It, it definitely exists.

Alex Tsakiris: [00:59:05] Even six years ago, David. I said six years ago when, uh, SARS first came out, you said, yeah, they probably engineered this thing. They you’re right. They probably engineered the last one and they probably almost certainly engineered this one.

Engineering. It means that there’s something to engineer. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It’s a virus the mind. Why do you listen to these crackpot? You know, Andy Kaufman, I just entered in interviewed, uh, Tom Cohen, you know, just, I don’t know if they’re well-meaning, if they’re just following that useful idiot category or whatever it is, but this, this virus doesn’t exist.

Mean. The other thing I’d throw it on that. I’d love to get your take on this. Talk about hating. I think it’s one of those kind of flat earth divide the conspiracy community, make them look stupid. There you go.

Chris Mathieu: [00:59:59] Now that’s exactly what I wanted to get into the direction of conspiracy culture. It’s all over the place, especially with social media.

It’s so easy. I mean, it’s so easy to drag people’s consciousness this way and that way, and this is a conspiracy and that’s a conspiracy and Oh, you know, the, the virus isn’t real. It is real Q1 on pizza gate. All this stuff and it’s all right in our faces with social media, but yet at the same time, are they trying to censor it or are they trying to perpetuate it?

What’s really happening. It’s very, you know, it’s, once you look it into it, you get, you have to take a very close look and to be very discerning at the information you look at,

Alex Tsakiris: [01:00:38] very discerning, you know, the phrase that always pops into head for me is that Roman, the old Roman expression that is often mistranslated divide.

And rule, right? A lot of people say, divide and conquer. No. Well that’s one way, but really better divide and rule, put you over in your corner and put that other crazy conspiracy guy in that corner and say, okay, okay, let me keep you guys. Let me help you guys out. I’ll I’ll put up a barrier so that, you know, he doesn’t infect you and this net, now you have two groups, less power or less, you know, not a bad strategy.


Chris Mathieu: [01:01:16] Yeah. And now with so many different beliefs, religions, conspiracy, Colts, different politics, culture. Do you think it would be possible for. If future humanity to get their shit together, too enough to avoid, um, you know, self destruction or some kind of dystopian future, uh, or do we want humanity to get together?

Um, you know, what are your thoughts on that? Do, do, do you think, uh, that’s a universal. Spiritual consciousness is, is possible without these divisive religions and beliefs,

Alex Tsakiris: [01:01:53] bro, you’re the guy I should be asking you these questions. You have the download. I’m serious because to me, spirituality is. You know, I have a sign on my desk.

I have one, several signs on my desk that I try and remind myself, reprogram myself. One of them is from one of my favorite spiritual teachers. Who’s just as truck driver who just figured all this stuff out. But the, the quote is it’s not going to work out. It’s not going to work out. And how I understand that is that.

Even like my kids are home now, you know, it’s awesome. I have four kids they’re older, you know, from 25 down to 17, but they’re back because COVID and Thanksgiving, all that stuff. I want everything to work out for my kids. It’s not going to work out like that. I want everything to work out in my life. I don’t want to get old and sick and die.

Chris Mathieu: [01:02:54] I want, you always want that for your lifetime. You know, this perfect, uh, something,

Alex Tsakiris: [01:02:58] whatever. Even if you want for lunch or out, God, I don’t want it to rain this weekend. Not this weekend. We always want the shit to work out. The spiritual path is easy for one with no preferences. So why do we then want to kind of jump out when we have that spiritual understanding and we go, okay, I get it.

I’m supposed to be smaller. My ego is supposed to be reduced. I’m not supposed to see myself as the center of the universe. Then why do we want to be pulled back into thinking that we need to solve the. Problems of the universe and answer the problems of the universe. And that’s not a cop out for me because I’m continuing to do my show.

I’m continuing to investigate all this stuff and I’m serious about it. And I work hard at it, but I balance it with saying, you know, it is my. Yeah, my path to this zero two path is easy for one with no preferences. How can I reduce my preferences about, do I really care? Uh, my, my soul journey, my soul journey.

Can I be kind, can I be that embodiment of that love that you experienced? Can I bring a sliver of that into my life? And. Transmit it, cause that is not easy for me,

Chris Mathieu: [01:04:17] right? Yeah, exactly. And it it’s. So it’s so great to have the opportunity to be able to bring so many different voices and beliefs to the table too, so that people can, you know, listen to it.

To, uh, take it in and make their own decisions in their own lives about what is really going on with consciousness, the nature of reality with these conspiracy theories. Um, you know, it’s, it’s shows like ours that give, uh, the opportunities for the, these ideas and information to get out and, um, you know, that’s.

That’s a wonderful thing. As long as we have the opportunity to do this. Um, I think that, uh, we need to keep doing exactly what we’re doing. It’s a, it’s a wonderful thing. And to close out tonight, I’d really love you to tell us, I know you have a new book coming out. Could you give us a little preview, uh, of about what it’s going to be about?

Tell us a little about it.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:05:10] You know what we ought to do. We ought to do another one of these because I so enjoyed it. And there’s so many of the topics that you talk about that I’d love to really get this kind of cross-fertilization. Cause I so sincerely mean what I said at the beginning before we hit record button is I got a lot to learn from you and I already have, because you can tell I’m talking about these interviews.

You did. They’ve already been transformative to me. You got a library of them that I want to go through and I want to kind of, yeah. Compare and contrast what we’ve been doing. And then I, you know, I want to, this is one that I need to put out on the skeptical channel too, and I want to do that, so, Oh, that’d be great.

Can, why don’t we just do part two and, uh, you know, my book is about my new book is about evil in particular, why evil matters, you know, why. Why science is set all of the evil. Not that can’t be it. There’s nothing because there’s no consciousness, what’s their agenda. And then religion the same way, say, yes, I know what evil is.

Come. I will tell you, you know, that’s a trap, man. We know it’s a trap and for you, and I it’s like. Forget it we’ve already done it, but it’d be interesting to hash that around in, in particular, because like one thing is, I think I’d like to get your thing on is, you know, goody tea versus batty tea, I think is really an interesting

Chris Mathieu: [01:06:33] one.


Alex Tsakiris: [01:06:34] Yeah. We’ll

Chris Mathieu: [01:06:35] do that. Definitely. Yes, Alex, thank you so much again. That was, that was a, that was a great conversation. Uh, very refreshing and unexpected, but it was really good to talk to you and I’d love to do it again. Really look forward to the next one.

Alex Tsakiris: [01:06:50] Absolutely me too. So we will do it and, uh, and we’ll have fun doing it and sharing it with other people.

Chris Mathieu: [01:06:57] Great. All right. Well until next time, everyone else, you have an excellent evening as well.

Bye for now. [box]

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