Bruce Fenton’s shamanic experience sent him looking for scientific proof of ancient alien contact… and he found it.
photo by: Skeptiko
[Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:53]
That’s a clip from a little Skeptiko movie project episode, kind of experiment that I put together with Bruce Fenton, who you’ll hear from today, and Sean Fahey who was the guy who really did all the work behind it. Although Bruce and Danny did a lot of the work too. Anyways, I am so excited about Bruce’s work and always have been, and the last interview we did, I thought was just terrific.
And then I ran into The Snake Brothers, Russ and Kyle Allen of Brothers of the Serpent podcast, and I kind of got them interested in it, and they’re interested in doing a series of interviews on this topic.
So as kind of a way of launching that little project, I invited everybody here on Skeptiko and here’s what we came up with.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:45] Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Tsakiris and today we welcome back Bruce Fenton to Skeptiko. Bruce is the author of Exogenesis: Hybrid Humans: A Scientific History of Extraterrestrial Genetic Manipulation and also The Forgotten Exodus: The Into Africa Theory of Human Evolution with a foreword by Graham Hancock, which is quite impressive.
And because I thought Bruce’s work was so fantastic, innovative and important, as you know if you listened to that first interview that I did with him, he’s also featured in this upcoming, not upcoming, it’s out, that’s what we’re going to talk about today. This extended video/movie we did called 780,000: Our Alien Origin Story, which is available right now. You can go and watch it on YouTube for free, it’s soon going to be on Amazon as well, if we can ever get it up on that platform, which is, I don’t know, they’re saying they need more time. So give them all the time they need.
And we’re also joined today by Russ and Kyle Allen, the creators and hosts of Brothers of the Serpent podcast, just a very, very cool show. I was on their show recently and I really, really enjoyed the way these guys dig into this. We have kind of a similar perspective on it, although they are much more well versed in these ancient mysteries, kinds of things.
So I thought it would be great to have them on along with Bruce and kind of do like a little launch party for this video, 780,000. And for Bruce’s excellent book, you know, an opportunity to get on and talk about some stuff. And we were all just having a chat, you know, before we hit tape rolling, and it was super, there are so many interesting things to get to.
So, Bruce, first of all, to you, welcome back. Thanks for joining me. We talked so many times during the making of this film and it’s been just great working with you. So thanks for coming on.
Brue Fenton: [00:03:59] Thanks for having us back on and thanks for working with us on the film production. It was really cool.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:04:04] It was really cool. It was really great. My only regret is Dani, your wife and your coresearcher on this, had such a great contribution and I think people will get that from reading the book and they’ll maybe know. And I think it also maybe comes in, in the interview you did and that we referenced to. But she’s awesome and it was just so cool getting to know her as well.
Bruce Fenton: [00:04:33] We’ll talk her into doing some sort of video chat with you or something, so that she can give you her overview another time as well.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:04:40] That’s good. I like, sneak that in, that’s how we’re going to do it. Hey, and then Russ and Kyle, hey, I don’t know if you can see this, but I am wearing my Snake t-shirt in honor of you guys, and the hat just to trigger anyone who could possibly be triggered by the American flag. I didn’t have any agenda, I just put a flag in my hat. But I know that’s still going to trigger people. So you guys, so cool having you here, thanks for coming on.
Kyle: [00:05:10] Yeah, thanks so much for having us, looking forward to this video.
Russ: [00:05:14] Yeah, it was a blast having you in our show Alex, and we’re really glad to be here on Skeptiko with Bruce.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:05:22] So, Bruce, do you want to take it kind of from… take it from the top if you will on these two books, what they’re about. And for someone who really doesn’t know, just kind of dropping into this conversation, kind of a quick overview of what’s going on with these two books that you wrote, Exogenesis and this Into Africa book, which I know you wrote a few years ago, but I think is such a great important piece of this puzzle as well, and we’re going to play some clips from 780,000 that will highlight that. But just kind of the overview for the uninitiated.
Bruce Fenton: [00:06:02] Just bear in mind that my quick overview, sometimes it’s about 60 hours long.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:06:07] Right, true, true.
Bruce Fenton: [00:06:10] But I’ll try and condense it down. Yeah, the two books do sort of connect. The Into Africa book really was part of a project that I got involved with, where I went to a site out in the jungles in Ecuador, the site was rather mysterious. It wasn’t clear who built it, there were indications based on nearby archeology that it could relate to the Lagoa Santa people. Now, they are known from sites down in Brazil, notably the Lagoa Santa site, but also a number of other sites across Brazil and in other areas as well. Because we know that they have sites doing back at least 20,30, you know, depending on who you ask, perhaps 40, 50,000 years ago. There have been finds across parts of Central Ecuador, including Banos de Agua Santa, which is the town nearest to the site, that have cave sites where they have remains that appeared to be Lagoa Santa.
So we know that for some reason these people have trekked up through the jungles of Brazil, through the Amazon into Ecuador. So I believe there’s a whole lost story there of civilization, through the jungles. Obviously, there are all sorts of legends about lost cities in the Amazon Jungle, we’re not they’re not just stories because some of these are getting found, as well as mound sites and all sorts of other constructions. In fact we know that the Amazon Jungle is essentially, it seems to be sort of a market garden that went wild. There are a lot of trees and plants in there that suggest it was, in some respects, deliberately planted in parts, and then it went kind of wild.
Now, this indicator of the Lagoa Santa led me into the Into Africa work, because it turns out these are a kind of Australoid people, they appear to be of morphology of Australian Aboriginals or [unclear 00:07:59].
Now, what are these people doing down in South America 20,000, 30,000 years ago? That is an implicit argument against the pervading models of how America was first inhabited. So when we sort of dig deeper into that, you have to kind of explain, how are these people in the Americas so early if we have an Out of Africa story within 55,000 years ago? Modern humans first emerging from Eastern Africa populating Eurasia, eventually reaching Australia and then the Americas. And then conversely, if it turns out that you’ve got modern humans in the Americas 40,000 years ago and that they’re Aboriginal type people, that really doesn’t fit.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:08:36] Hold on, let me interject with a clip from the movie.
[Clip 00:08:41 – 00:09:48]
Alex Tsakiris: [00:09:48] Okay, I’ll pause it there. We could go on and on.
I love the way you present this stuff. You know, we were chatting like all of us were chatting and I really like the point that Russ made about, he appreciated the sciencey part of it, and I did too. From the first time we talked, you know, it’s like, that’s the barrier, those are the shields that are up. It was like, this guy is coming out with some pretty wild sounding stuff. You know, like the whole Out of Africa thing is total bunk, you know, and it all the best science has proved that to me, shown that to me. And you kind of lay it out and go, “Okay, I’ll prove it to you.”
Do you want to elaborate on that, either one of you guys, Russ or Kyle?
Russ: [00:10:33] Unfortunately I’m not as familiar with his Out of Africa book. The one that I’ve studied the most is the Exogenesis one. So some of this information is newer to me. But what I was specifically speaking about was in your book, you sort of intertwine the intuitive information with, and then you go digging for the data.
Now I found that a fascinating way to do the research, but it’s harder for me to… Like, you say, “Okay, so we have these ideas, or this person had this dream or this other thing,” and then you go looking for information and you find it in the scientific data. That was the part that I found fascinating. So that’s basically what I was meaning when I was saying that I had a harder problem with the intuitive part.
But then once you got into the science I’m like, okay. There we go.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:11:21] Fair enough, Kyle, do you have any thoughts on the Out of Africa, part of that? Because you know, in this larger story that we’re going to tell, in this interview and in this film is that Exogenesis is this story of our human origins are traceable by science that Bruce has discovered, to 780,000 years ago. And to me, that kind of shifts our focus. It’s not just like a date, it like totally changes the paradigm that we would be contemplating, even some of the crises that we’re going through now, it kind of forces you to shift your focus and say, “Wow, how does this really fit in?”
And I think it also, that’s why I wanted to start with the Out of Africa thing, is we get hung up on Africa and the migration into, Out of Africa, what, 70,000 years ago or whatever. Bruce is talking about 780,000 years, if we ever let him get to that story.
But first Kyle, do you have any thoughts, or have you ever looked into to the Africa, Out of Africa, Into Africa? Because Bruce’s thing is like, if you really are honest about looking at the data, yeah, there is some movement out of Africa, but it’s after a movement into Africa. So these people were escaping from an ecological disaster and they moved into Africa and then you guys picked up the trail later on when they moved out and you said, “Oh, that’s it, that’s the event.” And then he goes and looks and finds all of this archeological data that predates that, and he goes, “Well then obviously, that was just the second leg of the journey.”
So, I don’t know, Kyle, have you looked into that at all or do you have any thoughts?
Kyle: [00:13:09] Yeah, just a little bit. I think generally there are some obvious problems with it, just based on some of the stories that I’ve followed, but the genetic trail is something that’s really hard for me to wrap my brain around, how they follow this genetic trail.
But yeah, there has been some pretty recent stories where they’re finding stuff in Europe and saying, “Wait, how is this possible? Our story about the Out of Africa, these people or this thing that we’re finding shouldn’t be here at this time.”
So yeah, I think there are definitely some legitimate questions and I’m coming into this thing cold, as far as your work Bruce, but I’m looking forward to reading your books. So yeah, very interested to hear.
Russ: [00:13:53] And also we have followed, pretty close, a lot of the “anomalous” finds in the Americas of much more ancient peoples. Kyle and I, I think I would say that we focused our study on Younger Dryas period and afterwards, in terms of the human origin story, because we’re looking at this more recent period. So when you take it all the way back to 780,000 years, I’m like, “Okay, this is way more interesting.” And there are finds in the Americas that are too old, you know, the, the Clovis first model has been destroyed basically. I mean, there are some people that are still clinging to it, but yeah, there are plenty of finds here that I think ruin that story for them.
Bruce Fenton: [00:14:35] Absolutely, yeah.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:14:36] So, Bruce, let’s just wrap up this Into Africa, Out of Africa. What are we living off here that people should come to understand through your work that’s important to the bigger story?
Bruce Fenton: [00:14:50] One thing I suppose is, it kind of reminds us that we’re talking about where does this story start? Again, you have to decide what is a human, what is important to the human story? All of these kinds of concepts. Because if you say where does our lineage start? Well, it starts with a single celled organism, 4.5 billion years ago, you know, in the ocean somewhere. So, I mean, where do we trace to, where do we start in the human story?
So if you are taking it just from the genus homo, then that appears to emerge first in Africa, but then if you trace it back to, you know, earlier hominins, some of those appear to be in the Mediterranean region now, they’re finding fossils to suggest perhaps the earliest hominins might’ve been there. And if you go back to when was the first kind of primates, they’re chasing these back down into East Asia and the jungles there.
So there is a degree of, where do you want to start the story, right? Now, if we’re dealing with homo sapiens, then that’s where I argue that their story begins 780,000 years ago. So again, you can kind of say, “Well, where are you starting this?” And that’s important to where we are looking geographically and what kind of human we’re looking at.
So it does shift and the I think the Out of Africa and the greater evolutionary story only informs us of that timeline, that narrative, but then we have to choose from it what is important. And obviously, the newer book really is a focus more on homo sapiens and our story.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:16:19] Yeah, so that’s where we should go. I don’t want to hold back or like bury the lede here. Tell us about the shift to 780,000 years ago and why I think that needs to be taken seriously, how you originally kind of came to even entertain the idea? And then specifically, and that’s what we really tried to capture in our previous interview on Skeptiko and in this new release of 780,000 is how you proved it. Because you want about proving it as in NASA documents, archeological finds, published work, you proved it in that way. So tell us the big picture there.
Bruce Fenton: [00:17:04] Yeah. I mean, one of the interesting things that happened, and again, this is all quite recent. It’s funny how sometimes synchronous events flow, because until very recently, last few years, it was understood that homo sapiens emerged around about 400,000 years ago, something like that, that we split off from Neanderthals and Denisovans. But then they found the oldest DNA ever, from any humans which came from a site in Spain called Sima de los Huesos, the Pit of Bones, and they used to get a sample of DNA that was about 430,000 years old. And it turned out that that was from an early Neanderthal ancestor. It was so far along the evolutionary route to becoming a Neanderthal, as we’d understand it, that it pushed back the split between Neanderthals, us and Denisovans, all the way back to at least 550 to 750,000 years ago. So it was like a massive rewrite.
Since then there have been other studies. There’s a comparative study of different craniums and jaws, teeth, that’s pushed it to around 900,000. And some DNA sampling of Denisovans suggest 800,000. I mean, some of these dates, they’re never absolutely precise, they give you a range, but in the middle of these ranges, you keep coming to around this 800,000.
Now, that ties in nicely with the cranial finds that we already have in the record that show that around 800,000 years ago…
Alex Tsakiris: [00:18:22] Hold on, because we are kind burying the lede on people, and I get that you can’t tell the story and we’re trying to squeeze it down. But you started with 780,000 because you were told, this information was passed to you, and again as Russ said, in a way that we’re not comfortable with. Because it gets into the metaphysical and the psychic and the stuff like this, and it gets into connection with alcheringa objects that somehow have an ability to communicate all this kind of crazy stuff.
So I think you immediately go to the science stuff because we love that. We all love that, and we want to hear that you can back it up. But we are kind of bearing the lede because you started with this information whispered in your ear, if you will, that said, “It all started 780,000 years ago. Now you Bruce need to go and prove that.” And you did.
Bruce Fenton: [00:19:18] Yeah. That’s the interesting… so I’ve gone the other way. So I’m giving you the what’s happened since we got that data, the science has come in to match it. But you’re right, we already had a date that we were looking at and at the time, when that information, the idea that there were events 780,000 years ago coming to us via an interaction between an Australian named Valerie Barrow and an artifact, which is considered to be a highly sacred artifact of the Arrernte people, a language group that is centered about Central Australia, Uluru, some of the regions around there.
But they have these artefacts which their own law says are embodiments of beings from the first time, the creation time, the Alcheringa time. That these are literally living entities in a form that will persist against time and wear, and that they took on those forms in that crazy story. And that these carry information down through the ages and usually they’re kept in caves, they’re kept away from people, they could only be handled by the Elders, what they call Clever Fellas. Basically what we’d think of Shamans. They’re the only people who can interact with these because they’re so highly sacred, but possibly for other reasons, they may even be dangerous. There is an indication that a lot of people would be scared of these, they wouldn’t really want to go near them.
Now, I suggest that this could be something like Bracewell probe, which is an extraterrestrial technology, which would be left on a planet.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:20:46] Hypothesized, kind of Sci-fi idea that, hey, if you’re going to explore space what you might do is just shoot these probes out there, have them land and then come to life and wake up and echo, tell me what time it is, kind of thing. And that this is kind of like that because it starts spewing out all of this information about what’s going to happen in the world and what you need to do and then it starts working its way into your dreams and into Dani, your wife’s dreams and other interactions. And in the 780,000, you tell about where you’re almost brought to tears by the fact that what you’re finding is matching what you’ve had these visions of for so long.
So it’s again, this blending of the science with this extra extended consciousness kind of input that you’re getting, which really is so fascinating.
Bruce Fenton: [00:21:45] Absolutely. That was years before in 2002, around 2002, that I’d had an experience doing a sort of a shamonic journey, altered state journey in which I’d experienced myself as being an entity, the tool human identity on a craft. How many tools a year, knowing that there’d been some kind of a, an event in which a lot of other fellow beings had been destroyed, feeling that as though being that, not like, you know, a conventional memory experiencing it, that you’re there.
It’s, you know, this is happening now that you’re aware of what’s just happened on all of that. And that lasted probably four. A couple of minutes at most now I had no context for it, you know, chief Hausmann too. And then all these years later, sort of in 2013, I first became aware of this, the story, you know, from Valerie Barrow and her book, you know, through the recession Australia, just to clarify that her work was published in 2003 around the time that I was having that experience, funnily enough.
So it may even be the same time as was writing the book, which is kind of intriguing. Um, and that, that. Meshed up with information in her book that there was these beings in Krav coming down from this exploded motherships and all beings had died. Even the clothes I was wearing meshed up to the descriptions in her book.
So it was, it was bizarre now. Yeah. Classically say, you know, past life memories. But at the same time, I’m also aware that, you know, you could explain that another very strange ways, you know, is that an alien technology hacking into people’s brains? You know, is there, um, a spiritual entity that is telepathically telling people this, you can go down lots of wormholes, but the bottom line is it was a very extraordinary experience, which then linked to information.
I wouldn’t be previous to for another decade or so. And it turns out that we all, not that there’s actual evidence of sports over these accounts. So let me meet some extraordinary flow. Of information or events,
Kyle?: [00:23:37] I’ve written about questions. I want to ask about exogenesis but they are kind of, uh, I mean like, unless somebody read the book, they will have no idea what we’re talking about.
So, so maybe, uh, Maybe we won’t do that on this show, or maybe I can try to get into some of it, uh, based on stuff you say, but I think, I don’t know how Alex, how do you want to handle it? Do we assume that people who are listening to this are familiar with the work?
Alex Tsakiris: [00:24:02] I apologize if it’s somewhat disjointed or if it moves us too far in the story, but I’ll play a clip from the 780,000 movie. And then we’ll hear from Bruce next sound. Okay guys.
Kyle?: [00:24:13] Cool.
Bruce Fenton: [00:24:14] Now, of course, there’s a much bigger story here and credits are Valerie. You know, she details all of that in her book. Which people can read, but my interest was in these major events because I felt there was the potential to be signatures in the geological records and in your academics papers that I could go away and look for evidence of this.
Suddenly I had an understanding of a whole series of synchronicity events in my life. Going back years now goes all the way back to the events in around 2002, when I’d had this Shamani journey experience, where I. You know, at alien craft basically come in towards the earth
Alex Tsakiris: [00:24:56] Now, Bruce, , maybe you could give folks a high level recap of what you thought you might be able to prove
Bruce Fenton: [00:25:05] so, I mean, yeah, from the event that we just discussed already with what I had happened to me, see that you could say influenced me to take more seriously. Um, Valerie’s accounts that in terms of that was what was in her book, which is that there is a craft that comes here like crystalline prof, which is destroyed in all bit.
Boston like a little tiny flying source. So this is said to have had 50,000 beings on board, very large craft with smaller craft on board. It’s destroyed an oil bet. There is just a, well, there’s a few that survive. They come down, they are involved in genetically modifying existing on this planet to sort of upgrade them if you’d like.
And at five years later that Mary’s eight events involving a multidirectional asteroid impact of this planet that is engineered. Why should trash those now these were free. How’s he radical and enormous kind of. Impactful events, you know, history if they were real. So they reached out to me as being potentially provable in any ways that most things are, you know, so there was a big, he did this, he did that.
Okay. You don’t find the bones. You’re not going to find the evidence of that. If there’s something big scale, some exploding and all that meat rights impacting a modification of the genome, those free things stood out to me as being potentially, uh, evidential.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:26:26] so one of the things we talk about a lot in the, in the film is this, uh, tech tight thing. And maybe you want to tell people a little bit about the high level and then get into the details of what is a tech tight and why. It was a real mystery. It was a mystery in science in general, before you even decided to look into this, and then what is, what is the mystery surrounding them?
Why is it so important to this story?
Bruce Fenton: [00:26:59] Absolutely. I mean, to be honest, in some respects, the Austria like mystery. You know, it’s deserving all analysis on his own, irrespective of any stories about, uh, you know, visitations and genetic engineering or any of that, um, because you have that event, which is been known to science for a hundred years.
Not explained away there, despite all kinds of teams, you know, geologists, physicists, master engineers, all sorts of people in front of their minds of this because we have somebody that’s happened 780,000 years ago. We well dated. We have. This creation of this material, there’s all, shall I take types, spread all across this vast region from Antarctica up to Southern China, you know, and these are absolutely huge, enormous debris field, which does not match with any known previous impact events.
I mean, we have impacts a matrix and asteroids and stuff hope throughout history. We don’t see that kind of debris field. We also have these mysterious material, which not only is it quite clearly a kind of this. Gloss like tech type, but in some instances you have it. And his button forms where it definitely has traveled through the upper atmosphere and so into our atmosphere and it had secondary mounting on his way down.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:13] they actually look kind of like little flying saucers.
Bruce Fenton: [00:28:16] They do ironically,
Alex Tsakiris: [00:28:18] and it’s not even so ironic when you break it down, which you do just beautifully.
Bruce Fenton: [00:28:24] So again, you know, you think of a craft design, like a nose cone of a rockier is dealing with the aerodynamic forces entering our atmosphere.
So that’s why we see this. And so again, if you’re looking at spaceships, whether human or extraterrestrial, there’s probably some sense to the fact that you see these kinds of shapes. Because again, if you’re, if you’re entering atmospheres, you know, you can conventional sense that you would have aerodynamic shaping.
Kyle?: [00:28:48] Yeah. And there’s another interesting thing about them, is that right? They, they had a two stage shaping process that’s right. That you sort of detail in the book that like, they look, they appear to have started out as spheres. Right. You know, in a, in a, in a, a crystal and sphere can’t form. Uh, on the ground in this, well, it won’t be a sphere, you know, liquid spheres, foreman space in a zero G environment.
And then it has the secondary shaping process, which is the reentry part where the sphere is sort of reshaped into this, uh, aerodynamic shape. And even you were saying in the book that NASA studied some of these shapes to make their reentry vehicles, uh, because they were, they were, they were for the reentry, you know, affecting the atmosphere.
Bruce Fenton: [00:29:30] Yeah. From Brian Sonny’s yeah. They sort of realized teams are involved. Yeah. In designing these vehicles, they obviously notice the similarity that it looks like it has that look of having and to the atmosphere. So they were very intrigued and very interested. And that’s how NASA sort of got involved with it.
And there’s been various NASA associated studies. They’re all strike tech types by different people, um, that have basically concluded that. Yeah, they has to come from a source body that was in all that. Or that had was superheated in some way, you know, reduced to a molten liquid glass. And that, that then calls into these fears, as you said, and that then as these ends and they have to add to it quite slowly in a fairly gentle angle that they can’t, you know, they don’t come in fostering hotline.
We have the nitrites and asteroids that they start to come in at a fairly gentle angle. That’s why we have this time for secondary melting and the running of a liquid glass to the back, forming these shapes and everything that comes in a very, very fast and steep angle. What happens instead is you have the evaporation of the surface layers and extraordinary heat from the friction.
And that just evaporates off you don’t really get much liquid that liquid and purchase commonly happen unless you have a gentle, slow injury. And
Alex Tsakiris: [00:30:38] that ties into what you’re just mentioning there, Bruce. And I don’t want to gloss over it cause there’s like a million. We can’t possibly cover them all today, folks, but this idea of an orbiting object, which is really strange, because again, I didn’t know this stuff.
I learned it from you. But you can’t have an orbiting object that doesn’t fit the profile of a spacecraft. I mean, nothing else I’m saying that backwards, but nothing else fits that profile of an orbiting object quite as nicely as this large crystalline object that’s you’re talking about.
Bruce Fenton: [00:31:14] Yeah.
Essentially you have to get into extraordinary mathematical odds. For the earth to capture any significantly lives, large body now. So unlikely, you know, in many mainstream sources I looked at, they just discount it. You know, they say that, you know, it’s just within the realms of possibility. If it’s something came in at exactly the right angle, the right size, you know, there’s so many considerations essentially.
We don’t expect this to happen, that we have very small objects, car sized, asteroids, and things I lose. Do you get captured and respectively, large planets like Jupiter and Saturn. They sometimes capture larger asteroids and comets temporarily, usually, but earth it’s not expected to happen. So it was quite extraordinary to find that, you know, again, which points to that we have something very unique just in the fact that a large body.
Is now orbiting the planet. And then it turns out that the content, the silica is too high at around 75, 80%. We find the asteroids and limited to about 60% that we don’t know of any natural bodies out there that are over 60% of Silicon. So when you start putting these kinds of factors together, it’s very unlikely object, which is now in orbit besides for the same time as we have.
A line of extraordinary events, you know, a magnetic pole reversal, the emergence of homosapiens and asteroid bombarded by said, what is going on? You know, once you start factoring that
Alex Tsakiris: [00:32:36] in. And, and just to pull back the lens even further, we’re talking about, I mean, a geological event here that is in a scale, we’re looking at millions of years.
So like, I mean, science is looking at millions of years. And saying, okay, we’ve seen these different things fall from the sky and they’re going, wow. But this is the only time we can see something exactly like this that has ever happened in this particular place. And it happened exactly this time that we were looking for.
I mean, I don’t think, well, how did that strike you guys in terms of being extraordinary or being well, show me more.
Kyle?: [00:33:19] No, I, I, that this part about the tech tights, uh, the fact that, uh, you know, it’s objects seem to be moving too slowly. Like he was saying to be a normal commentary or asteroidal body impact those, those move really quickly.
You know, when they, when they impact, when they come into the atmosphere, number one, they don’t start out molten that’s that’s one, one point number two, they come in so fast that a lot of times, depending on the angle of impact, they’re only in the atmosphere for a couple of seconds before they. Make landfall.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:33:50] What about the fact making landfall? What about the fact that there’s no crater as Bruce points out later? Is that anything, when you start talking about things this size, and then you go over to, uh, uh, Laos, which where we start seeing these bigger objects and they’re huge, you know, they’re 20 kilograms, but there’s no crater in Bruce.
Didn’t you say that we would estimate the crater to be like, Dinosaur extinction size
Bruce Fenton: [00:34:18] thing. Yeah, it was either 40 kilometers or 40 miles across, you know, so like a vast, vast sized, you know, because he’s exposed to young at 780,000 years. Obviously we can find impact sites from millions and millions years ago.
So this was really problematic and it’s been, you know, a head scratcher for the geologists. Well,
Alex Tsakiris: [00:34:37] it just fits perfectly with, with your theory, right? Yeah. If it’s a spacecraft that was blown up in space, there’s no crater. It’s all this little debris that’s thrown around. Versus if it’s a big rock up there, it comes down and it slams into the slams into the earth.
But I’m sorry, guys, that kind of cut it off a little bit short. What else did you think about that? And, or the crater? Well,
Kyle?: [00:34:59] I really think the idea is awesome, but my brain immediately goes into trying to figure out how it could not be the aliens. Right.
Bruce Fenton: [00:35:07] That’s right. You should, I,
Kyle?: [00:35:09] you know, it’s just what happens.
I’m a man. Well, there could have been a scenario where there was an impact, which is extremely unlikely between two, uh, commentary or, or, you know, meteorite or meteor objects. Near the atmosphere at their closest approach to earth to slow them down and also melt them to create your initial molten skiers.
That then fell slowly into the atmosphere that doesn’t necessarily explain the high silica content, but it could explain an, a very unlikely scenario of slow entry of pre molten and then solidified spheres. Um, that were out in space and then fell down and remelted upon entry. Yeah. And there would be no crater.
Bruce Fenton: [00:35:57] Again, with the idea about capturing a body in space, there are also these infinitesimal small chances of things happening. But what we can look at there is that none of the scientists who have spent the 100 years on this propose that as a possible solution. So one would assume that that’s because when you put all of the evidence together, that would remain problematic. Again, apart from the odds of these two objects happening, if we think about the size of space and we think about how unlikely it would be for two relatively small objects in space to hit and just happen to hit in the upper atmosphere of our planet, and then does the distribution pan fit with that. If there are two different bodies, we’d almost expect to have some of the material that would be different, would have some of the different components. Because if you have some of the original, body A, body B, then body A should be a different composition to body B.
What you find with Australite tektite is it’s very homogenous, throughout the entire mass of these materials that have been found, it’s almost identical in composition throughout. That’s problematic for any of the-, but also of the impact. Because what you expect, in a really fast kind of singular explosion event, that you should pick the impact, but you should have some of the material that is only partly melted or is of different compositions. Like if you’re impacting some granite and sandstone, that some parts will have more granite, some parts will have more sandstone, some parts are partly melted, some aren’t. So again, if you have two objects hitting, you would expect to be able to detect the presence of two original source bodies. So some parts remaining from part A and part B.
And again, because of the homogeneity of the material, that really points to being just an object super-heated, not encountering material from other objects. Whether the earth, the moon or another body. So that’s where it becomes problematic.
And also, in fact, this homogeneity, especially the lack of bubbles, it turns out there’s this whole thing called, I think it’s Moore’s Law or Moses Law or something like that. Basically that if you’re creating glass and you want to remove all of the bubbles, like when we’re producing glass, you have to have a kind of sustained event. That you heat the glass for a while and that refines it down to this homogenous material with very few bubbles. And it’s pointed out that in fact with this glass material that we have that. Now, this is problematic, because in an impact you have a singular moment of extreme energy, extreme heat, extreme pressure and that’s it. But that’s not how we form homogenous glasses, they’re energized over time.
Now, we’re told in the original material that this ship is being hit with a sustained energy being that is super heating it and is essentially melting it and blows it apart, and it turns into this homogenous glass.
So again, this is a funny factor that’s been pointed out by some of the scientists, it shouldn’t be homogenous like this if it’s a singular impact, explosion, we shouldn’t see this, we should see a lot of bubbles and a lot of part melt. So again, there’s a lot of science that suggests we have something extraordinary happening.
Kyle: [00:39:01] Or it could have been heated from within the spaceship, from whatever energy drive it had.
Bruce Fenton: [00:39:07] Well yeah, it explodes, there’s a nuclear explosion at the end.
Kyle: [00:39:10] I want it to be a crystal spaceship, I’ll just say it straight up.
Bruce Fenton: [00:39:17] No, like I said, if there’s a way to explain it another way, but as I’m saying, this is problematic because what can be a sustained energy event other than this? Because if impacts don’t explain it, what are we left with? Solar flare or something hitting us? We have to find something, a mechanism that could continually heat this body to make this homogenous, nearly bubble free glass.
Kyle: [00:39:41] Yeah, and the other idea that the standard model idea for tektites is that they’re post explosion, that they’re actually supposed to be a mixture of the impactor and ejector.
Bruce Fenton: [00:39:52] Exactly.
Kyle: [00:39:55] Right, and so, like you were saying this material doesn’t fit that profile because like you said, it would be a mixture of all this different stuff and it’s actually too homogenous for that.
Bruce Fenton: [00:40:08] Yes, it’s quite extraordinary in that sense. And not just the Australite tektite, there are four other strewn fields, and these are problematic. I don’t go into them in the book but keep in mind that the whole history of the planet, there are only, like four of these strewn fields.
Kyle: [00:40:18] That’s right.
Bruce Fenton: [00: 40:19] Now, what the hell is going on there, because if these are just from standard impacts, then why are there not hundreds and hundreds of these sites? So again, you could probably deep dive into the backstory of some of these others, I haven’t, but I do suspect that they’re all in some way extraordinary. But the reason why we can focus on this one in particular is because it’s unique in that we have these tektite buttons that have quite clearly come down from space, and it’s not the same as the other strewn fields.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:40:45] So Bruce, we could just talk for so long, and that’s why it’s really cool. If you guys do have Bruce on for a series of interviews, I think that would be fantastic, because that’s really what this topic deserves, especially for folks like all of us, who are interested in the science. And again, the key part of this story is it has this incredible extended consciousness aspect to it, but then what we’re trying to do in our humble little minds here is tie it back to this science, and I can’t let go of this.
There are four fields, four times when we’ve seen this kind of tektite event, and you’re talking about just one of them. What is the range of those different ones? And you’ve already explained why this one is unique, but I guess I want to drive home this point, that of all of the events we’ve ever traced on the geological history of our planet, all the different craters, this is unique.
Bruce Fenton: [00:41:42] I think with the moldavite, it goes back, it’s certainly in the tens of millions, I think, if not longer.
There’s another strewn field, I think an African strewn field which is around a million years old and some have suggested that perhaps it’s closer to the dating on the Australite than that. Maybe it’s within the same frame, but around about a million years old. So that’s the second youngest, and then you’ve got moldavite and you’ve got a US site as well, which I’ve forgotten where it actually is.
Russ: [00:42:14] Yeah, it’s in Georgia,
Bruce Fenton: [00:42:16] In Georgia, yeah. There’s a strewn field there.
Russ: [00:42:18] The piece of it that’s exposed that we know about is in Georgia, yeah.
Bruce Fenton: [00:42:22] So that one, I think, is again, going back quite early geologically.
Kyle: [00:42:26] Yeah, that one’s really old, I think, yeah.
Bruce Fenton: [00:42:28] Yeah, so it’s only these two that are fairly recent, the African and the Australasian.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:42:35] So again, you get the little echo machine and the Aboriginal Australian people have their ancient echo when it comes on and says, “Hey look guys, it’s 780, look for it.” And boom, you find it right to the date, you don’t find it 10 million years ago, five million years ago, you find it. And that is unbelievably, needle in a haystack thing and it’s easy to kind of lose the big picture here.
Bruce Fenton: [00:43:01] Yeah that, and then we very briefly mentioned, you know, there’s a claim that there is a multidirectional asteroid bombardment of the planet five years later. So now in geological terms, you can’t pinpoint five years difference, so you’d be looking for an event approximately in the same 10,000, 20,000 years, because we’re not quite at the pinpoint accuracy on these things.
But it turned out that in 2016, a team of German geologists had stumbled on evidence of a multidirectional asteroid, bombardment, and keep in mind, this book, the source material is published. So it’s in the public record from 2003. This multidirectional impact is discovered in 2016. Now, you can’t then say, well, you know, this person’s heard about it, they’ve woven it into a sci-fi story. You just can’t do that. And it turns out that this event happens approximately the same time as your Australites. So they give it a little bit of leeway each side, so there are about four different impact sites they found, and they’re close enough in their geological dating that they believe they happened at the same time.
Now, you’ve got impacts down in Tasmania, impacts in Central America, and impacts at other sites, and they are sure that these basically are interrelated.
Kyle: [00:44:13] Yeah, and this might be going a little too deep into the story here, but this part bothered me in the story that was being told. So the ship shows up, it’s destroyed. Some people survive, they end up on the ground. They start trying to live there. I guess they send out a distress call. And then five years later, people show up and they start bombarding the planet, and there are survivors on the planet. I’m like, wait a minute. Why would they do that? I know this is probably not something that can be answered, but this part of the story bothered me. I wondered why, when they asked for rescue, that the people show up and then start slamming the planet with asteroids.
Bruce Fenton: [00:44:55] They don’t want rescue. That’s sort of clarified in the book. They don’t want to be rescued. They are offered to be rescued. This is more like an enforcement of the original agreement for another group to leave the planet. But there is a communication between them. So although it’s never completely explained, we assume that there is some level of defensive locations where these other survivors are, because they are in communication. But there’s no attempt really, to go into depth of, this is how we, you know, we put them in a particular area. He doesn’t really explain it, but one has to infer that in this communication between them, where they say, “We want to remain,” that they would be protected from this bombardment
Kyle: [00:45:33] Yeah, they would have to tell them like, “Okay, you need to go and hide because we’re about to start throwing asteroids at the planet you’re on.”
Bruce Fenton: [00:45:38] Yeah, “We won’t hit you here, but we’re going to be blowing a lot of the planet to bits.”
Russ: [00:45:42] That’s right. Like I was saying, we’ve been studying the Younger Dryas period, specifically the impact hypothesis about the Younger Dryas, and a bombardment, even of small material, even the stuff that just explodes in the air, that doesn’t always make it all the way down to the ground, causes extinction level events. It’s cataclysmic for the whole planet.
Bruce Fenton: [00:46:01] Absolutely. I mean, you know, it’s theorized. One of the objects that hit in Antarctica is believed to have left an initial crater in the ice, about 200 kilometers by 200 kilometers. I’d have to check. But they think that that was an object on the same scale as the one that eradicated the dinosaurs. This is not small impact. And that’s just one of them. There are several that have impacted, and it was theorized that the only reason why that didn’t cause the same level of extinction event is because it was in ice and because the world was in an ice age at that time. So there was a lot of sea ice and that absorbed a lot of the energy.
Now, if these impacts were happening at a point when there wasn’t so much ice, like now, that we would have had an event like the dinosaur extinction event. But it still was severe, they think that these multidirectional impacts caused firestorms, earthquakes, tsunamis. So my no stretch was it like a cakewalk. There would have been mass extinction type events in some areas, definitely.
Russ: [00:47:07] I would just like to make a comment about the story and its similarities to some translations and interpretations of the Sumerian text of the Anunnaki coming down, genetically altering the hominids that lived on the planet to make the Adamu. And then you have another story that comes much later, which is the “fallen”, which are like Shemyaza and the 200 fallen angels that come down, take the daughters of men to be their wives. And then they don’t want to leave, but it was against the compact with the gods or God. And so then a battle ensues between them, where God destroys all of them. That’s just really interesting to me. There are similarities for sure.
Bruce Fenton: [00:47:55] Yeah, and you find them elsewhere as well. You say there are some elements of this in the Bible stories, which relates to the Sumerian stories anyway.
Now, this is problematic if you take it from a very mundane materialist conventional view, particularly if you take a view that there’s not been contact events with other extraterrestrials over time. Otherwise it’s quite easily explainable why we have similarities in these different stories, because if either of one of two or both of these other scenarios are true, then it’s explainable.
One being the very common claim that many people, particularly shamans, mediums, whatnot, can have cyclical communication with non-human extraterrestrials that have this information, and it keeps being perpetually renewed. Then immediately you can see how this stuff perpetuates through time and space.
The second one being of course, direct contact, which again, vast numbers of people, whole civilizations claim that they’ve been in contact, whether Native Americans, Aboriginal people, all sorts, people have said, “We’ve had ongoing contact. They tell us history, they tell us stuff.” Some of them said they go and sit in the bush, meditate, get contact with the star people and they tell them stuff.
So either of those scenarios, there’s no problem. Of course, if you go from a totally materialist view that people can’t do that, then you’re stuck scratching your head. How can the seminarians know this story from 780,000 years? How could they have any indication about modification of human beings? Why is that story so persistent? Why is it that Native Americans are talking about, we have ancestry to the Pleiades? Where’s this coming from? Now, even if it’s real events, 780,000 years is too long for this to be oral history, it’s too long. It’s not believable that you can pass down an accurate story to 780,000 years, particularly when those first generation don’t have the complex brain that we have. There’s no reason to think that they were capable of really doing that, having that whole story and conveying it.
So the only way you can have this is either someone is tapping into this information in some kind of cyclical way, or there’s a direct contact. There’s a landing, there’s a refreshing of the story through that.
Kyle: [00:49:56] That’s basically what the Sumerians were claiming, is that the Anunnaki came down and told them all this.
Bruce Fenton: [00:50:00] All sorts of cultures have stories. If you accept the very many stories of direct contact, or cyclical interaction, either of those explain that straightaway. Why are we hearing a similar story? But the Sumerian story seems almost like a slightly Chinese whispers version of what I’m providing in my book. It’s not quite right, it’s probably written down after the events.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:50:25] That’s what I keep hearing in all of this, is the whisper to your neighbor, a telephone game, you know. But I’ll tell you what guys, we’re running out of time. And really, I think one of the purposes of this show was to kind of make this introduction, because I’m really, really hopeful that you guys will do this series. And you can already see, I mean, I think the audience can already see that the brothers, the snakes, they’re not going to roll over, not that snakes roll over, I don’t know how snakes do that. But they’re not going to roll over on this, they’re going to dig into it, and they’re going to try and pull it apart.
And if anyone remembers the first interview that I did, that’s how I framed it up, because that’s really what I do. I was like, no, I’m pulling this guy down, he’s going down, and I tried the best I could.
So this is like a passing of the baton to people who are more capable, pull it apart, tell us where it’s wrong.
But I’ll tell you want I’m going to do because we’ve got five minutes and Bruce has to run.
Kyle: [00:51:27] I want to leave people with something too. So go ahead, but I have a few things to say. It won’t take me a minute though.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:51:32] Okay. Do you want to do it before or after this clip?
Kyle: [00:51:37] Well, I have one thing. I would say if you’re going to be a materialist, and if you’re going to throw out the possibility of contact, then you’re not going to solve any mysteries about the origin, so that’s my opinion.
Russ: [00:51:55] Go ahead and play the clip Alex, I’ll do this after that’s over.
[Clip 00:51:58 – 00:52:35]
Alex Tsakiris: [00:52:35] Okay, so we might end that right there, and there’s so much, obviously, that we could talk about, in terms of the genetic modification. And it’s incredible, I think people already get a sense for the depth that Bruce goes into in his research, and I guarantee you he’s done that with the genetic information too. Not that you would believe it or have to believe it.
But as we wrap it up, let me toss it over to you Russ and tell me what you’re thinking.
Russ: [00:53:08] Okay. So going through the book two things happened to me in the Gosford Glyphs part. One I was sort of confused by what was happening there. You guys go there and then there’s a lot of visions and intuitive stuff that’s happening. Which was all interesting.
The other thing that was really fascinating to me… I’ve looked into this a lot, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Ben from UnchartedX. He’s done a lot of work on this, he’s gone there multiple times. He is Australian but he lives in California. But he’s been there, he has a whole video on it. There are a couple of guys, one of them is named Yousef, they’re Egyptians. And they have taken these glyphs and they’ve got a whole series of videos on their YouTube channel and they’ve published a paper about their translations.
So what was interesting to me, the part that was strange was they’re looking at the glyph types and saying, “Well, these look to be from this particular late period of Egypt.” But the story they are translating from those glyphs, I’ve got a couple of the lines here from their translations. Here’s one of them.
“The ships capsized. They turned over and were destroyed into pieces. We prayed to our gods for help, but many were killed. God will keep the hidden burial from being reached and give the foreign land heritage and eternal life to the deceased will be given power in this place.”
They are so close to the story that you’re telling, it’s very fascinating. So on the one hand I’m like, okay, they’re dating it to this very late period of Egypt, but on the other hand this story sounds so close to the one that you’re telling in your book. So I definitely want to dig into that more on our show.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:54:59] So Bruce, we’re going to give you the last word here. Tell people what’s going on with the book, where they can find it. I know you’re doing a lot of really terrific media appearances as well, and you’re continuing to do this research. So tell us in a couple of minutes, kind of, what continues to go on with this work.
Bruce Fenton: [00:55:17] Yeah, if people would like to interact with me, I’m on Twitter quite a lot. I try to be available questions or queries. People who have read the book and they’ve got some feedback, if they get me on ExogenesisHH.
Yeah, I’m doing lots of interviews, so people, if they sort of keep an eye on me, Facebook or on there, I’ll share some of those links.
I might do a kind of follow-up book, we’ll see. So I am looking to see additional information to this. Of course, if they watch the free documentary on YouTube it would be great, because they’ll get a good overview from what we’ve done.
But otherwise the book, in the US it’s available now. Bookstores, I understand you can order it, obviously Amazon, Barnes & Noble. In Europe, the print version will be out on the 26th July, due to coronavirus, slowing down, shipping and all of that kind of stuff. But it’s available audio, Kindle, all of the other alleyways, but just not print in Europe at the moment.
Alex Tsakiris: [00:56:18] Great. Well, I’ll tell you what, we’re going to wrap it up there. And we kind of touched on some stuff, like we said all along, it’s a huge topic, so we can’t get into it too much, but hopefully we’ve maybe made some people interested that didn’t know about it before. And it’s kind of fun to see you guys coming into it, you know, fresh and clean and some of your perspectives. So thanks guys, and we’ll stay on top of this. Bruce, Russ, Kyle, thank you all so much.
Thanks again to Bruce and Russ and Kyle for joining me today on Skeptiko. The question, I guess I’d have to tee up from this interview has to do with the whole premise of the movie. Do you buy it? 780,000 years ago begins the human origin story. That’s an unbelievably big claim. What would it take to nudge you closer to some acceptance of that? I’d love to hear your thoughts, jump on over to the Skeptiko Forum or just drop me a note.
I have some really interesting chats coming up, more on the evil stuff, of course, but not just on that. So I hope you stay with me for all of that. I hope you’re enjoying this, and I hope you can find some value in it.
Until next time, take care, and bye for now.
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