Chris Knowles of Secret Sun on the Met Gala Psyop |381|

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Chris Knowles spots pop culture deception in phony celebrities and the Catholic church.

photo by: Skeptiko

Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome the very excellent host of The Secret Sun blog and the author of such books as, Our Gods Wear Spandex, The Secret History of Rock ‘n’ Roll and The Complete X-Files. If you’re watching this video you can see all of those up on your screen. Chris Knowles is here. Chris, welcome back. Thanks so much for joining me.

Chris Knowles: Great to be back, really looking forward to this.

(later in the interview)

Chris Knowles: …What people really need to understand is that while all this was going on and it’s interesting too because you have Catholic imagery with a number of very prominent celebrities, female celebrities dressed as scarlet women. One of the best examples of this is the rapper Nikki Minaj, who said that she was dressed as the devil and she was wearing this long flowing red dress, with what’s called a waterfall trail, but…

Alex Tsakiris: And didn’t you say there was another one where it’s something, an ode to the abyss?  So, it’s not just that they’re doing the Easter play and showing the devil. They are venerating and celebrating…

Chris Knowles: Yes, I believe that was the Ariana Grande dress which was of The Last Judgement, the apocalyptic symbolism is very strong here. So, what people really need to understand is, that image that you’re looking at right now on screen, which is that twelve-foot alien demon and it’s not like I’m just using it [unclear 00:11:34] here, that’s what it actually is. That’s what’s it’s presented as, that’s what the artist who created it explains it as and look at that image. If that’s isn’t like something out of Hieronymus Bosch’s worst nightmares, I don’t know what is. It’s a twelve-foot demon, with the three heads similar to the Janus heads or the Cerberus heads or the Hecate Triple Goddess kind of feeling there. I think…

Alex Tsakiris: But, we’ve got to switch back to the cultural bracketing on this one too, right? Because as soon as you say that, someone’s jumping in saying, “You fool! It’s just art. People in the art world do all sorts of crazy stuff”, and you pull them back and go, “Well no, let’s go back and look at the intent of the artist, what they said they were trying to communicate. Let’s look at it from the spiritual dimension and analyze whether there’s any evidence for that to be true and then let’s look at the people who have decided that this should be presented in this way and what are their beliefs?”

I think, that it’s so difficult to switch people over, because that one bracket is so strong and is so dominant. It is the ‘Good Morning America’ bracket and it is so comfortable because we have been entrained, if you will, to be comfortable with that bracket. So, we just get into it like a warm bath, as Marshall McLuhan said…

(continued below)

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skeptiko-Join-the-Discussion-3Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome the very excellent host of The Secret Sun blog and the author of such books as, Our Gods Wear Spandex, The Secret History of Rock ‘n’ Roll and The Complete X-Files. If you’re watching this video you can see all of those up on your screen.

Chris Knowles is here. Chris, welcome back. Thanks so much for joining me.

Chris Knowles: Great to be back, really looking forward to this.

Alex Tsakiris: Yes, I am too. So, one of the things I have up on the screen is the little, The Secret Sun logo. I was at the website the other day and I’m constantly amazed, I get so excited reading these blog posts, I’m like, “Oh man, this is the kind of stuff I really want to talk about.”

Chris Knowles: I think what we’re seeing here, this entire thing reminds me so much of Ancient Rome. It looks exactly and plays exactly like something that you would see at some festival in Ancient Rome, that you and I and all the rest of us would be standing out on the cobble stones watching these aristocrats and these celebrities and these gladiators enter into this, what is essentially a high ritual.

So, what we are seeing here it’s… the way that the news report makes sure that you know that you are not involved, you’re not part of this, this is the sort of thing you can watch, but this isn’t for you, you’re not invited, and you never will be invited. The millions of the people, pretty much everyone who’s watching this, will never gain access to this gala. This is a congregation of the gods.

So, we’re seeing this technology, high technology, as being the greatest gifts to the powers of the Empire to restore what I’ve been talking about since I started the blog, which is the restoration of the old hierarchies. I think that, that for me is the subtext here but there’s another subtext which is really troubling is that one thing that I noticed before this gala took place… and also, by the way, gala is a time which meant Priest of Inanna in Babylon. It’s just like, it’s the whole [unclear 00:02:28] or Ishtar in Babylon, Inanna in Sumer. On the Roof one of the stories that I covered, and I think that I included it in this as well, it that on the roof of The Metropolitan museum, as this was taking place and I think it’s on the roof until October, is a twelve-foot alien demon. Have you seen this, it’s called, We come in Peace?

Alex Tsakiris: Yes.

Chris Knowles: I don’t even know how to wrap my head around this. It’s just like “What reality are we living in now?” I can’t begin to imagine what the thinking behind this is. I scroll down looking at it now.

Alex Tsakiris: You’re quite right. So, at one level of a cultural control mechanism, this seems like a good strategy. If you were, if this was your job, if this was your nine to five to say, “Let’s control the masses.” Because, let’s consider the alternative of controlling the masses, is that they’re going to storm the castle and they’re going to take over everything.

Chris Knowles: With pitchforks out, yes.

Alex Tsakiris: Yes, that’s right, so we don’t want that, so it is in our interest to control the masses. How do we do it? You’re saying one way is this very Roman way of The Colosseum and popcorn in theatre and all the rest of that. In that sense this meets all, it checks all the boxes and then you start checking those boxes and you start saying in that bracket of reality, fashion, art, charity, NFL. Notice that we’re going to get the NFL guys both introducing it and we’re going to show them on there. We’re going to get the Hollywood, we’re going to get celebrity. From a cultural control mechanism, that’s how you do it.

But the other parts of it that you kind of slip into and out of and quite appropriately, are some of these other really deeper parts, is that, if you’re another part of that control mechanism and you’re nine to five isn’t just to control the masses but your secret ritual, higher magic practice is to say, “How can I control the God above Gods?”  How can I control the Gods?” “How can I bend the extended consciousness reality that is and make it work to my benefit?” Well, then you’re playing a different game, but you’re also doing some of the same things that you would see at The Met Gala, right?

So, I want you to kind of pull those two apart because we have the satanic imagery, interspersed in this. It’s in your face again and that’s not just playing to a cultural, control, tune, it’s also playing to… and you mention the masonic colors and stuff like that. I mean, you can deconstruct it either way you want. You can say, “Well, that’s just signaling, it’s just another way of this pop culture. It doesn’t mean anything.” Or you can say “Gee, we have to be aware that there is this extended consciousness reality and they’re playing in that field too.”  Do you have any thoughts on that?

Chris Knowles: Well I would take it to a much more basic level than that and just get to, one of the things that I’ve trying to pass is, if in fact there is some effort being made at entrainment, what is the end result here? What in fact, do these people actually believe? What do they believe in?  

I have a very strong conviction that Atheists make good scientists, they make good functionaries, they make good bureaucrats. I guess, In The Brave New World, it would be the Betas. You sort of want your Betas to just be focused on the number crunching. But the Alphas or the ultra Alphas as it were, they have a very strong belief system, and this is something that I just got a sense of when I was in New York, working in New York and walking around where the money is, all the neighborhoods where the people who have money live; not necessarily work, that’s a whole other conversation but, places like Murray Hill and the Upper East and Upper West side, these kinds of neighborhoods and looking at the way buildings were decorated, the way lobbies were decorated and this really sort of was the impetus behind, or the original impetus behind, Our Gods Wear Spandex, because on that street level, in seeing this mythological Godly symbolism everywhere you look, I came to understand that there is a belief system at work. It may be more of a hierophantic, to coin a term, belief system in which a lot of these God symbols are seen symbolically and incorporated into a very elaborate and complex symbolic system.

Every religion sort of has its mystical component and I think when you look at the mystical component throughout the world’s religions, I think they have more in common with each other, than with maybe even the people who worship ostensibly the same faith tradition but don’t see things mystically and symbolically.

At the same point in time, I think that’s sort of a rabbit hole that you can just go down and never leave and there’s been hundreds of thousands of books in academic circles written about that and that’s fine, I mean I have no problem with that.

I think that having attended say, charismatic meetings, having grown up in a conservative Christian tradition, having been exposed to punk rock which is basically a mystery cult, I see it as a neo-Mithraic mystery cult, and having worked within all of these different modes, I think that belief really is most powerful and moves mountains when it’s based on what is perceived as an external objective reality. In other words, you can symbolize things all you want, you can see the Gods as being embodiments of forces of nature, but the real power and the real change-makers are produced by a belief in a force that stands outside of nature. A supernatural force. A force that stands outside of the machine and again I think that’s what we’re seeing here, and I just want to get back to this twelve-foot, three-headed or sort of Cerberus headed, alien demon on the roof of The Met.

Alex Tsakiris: Then hold on a second, I’m going to pull it up and put it on the screen for folks.

Chris Knowles: Yes, please do because I think people really need to see this. What people really need to understand is that while all this was going on and it’s interesting too because you have Catholic imagery with a number of very prominent celebrities, female celebrities dressed as scarlet women. One of the best examples of this is the rapper Nikki Minaj, who said that she was dressed as the devil and she was wearing this long flowing red dress, with what’s called a waterfall trail, but…

Alex Tsakiris: And didn’t you say there was another one where it’s something, an ode or something to the abyss?  It’s in your blog post, but it’s like a tribute to the abyss. So, it’s not just that they’re doing the Easter play and showing the devil. They are venerating and celebrating.

Chris Knowles: Yes, I believe that was the Ariana Grande dress which was of The Last Judgement, the apocalyptic symbolism is very strong here. So, what people really need to understand is, that image that you’re looking at right now on screen, which is that twelve-foot alien demon and it’s not like I’m just using it [unclear 00:11:34] here, that’s what it actually is. That’s what’s it’s presented as, that’s what the artist who created it explains it as and look at that image. If that’s isn’t like something out of Hieronymus Bosch’s worst nightmares, I don’t know what is. It’s a twelve-foot demon, with the three heads similar to the Janus heads or the Cerberus heads or the Hecate Triple Goddess kind of feeling there. I think…

Alex Tsakiris: But, we’ve got to switch back to the cultural bracketing on this one too, right? Because as soon as you say that, someone’s jumping in behind you and going, “You fool! It’s just art. People in the art world do all sorts of crazy stuff”, and you pull them back and go, “Well no, let’s go back and look at the intent of the artist, what they said they were trying to communicate. Let’s look at it from the spiritual dimension and analyze whether there’s any evidence for that to be true and then let’s look at the people who have decided that this should be presented in this way and what are their beliefs?”

I think, that it’s so difficult to switch people over, because that one bracket is so strong and is so dominant. It is the ‘Good Morning America’ bracket and it is so comfortable because we have been entrained, if you will, to be comfortable with that bracket. So, we just get into it like a warm bath, as Marshall McLuhan said about how we read the Sunday paper. We just slide into it and go, “Okay, tell me everything’s going to be okay. Tell me I don’t have to think real deeply,” rather than just looking at the next bracket and incorporating that in.

Chris Knowles: Well if that fails then you have people like Michael Shermer, who will shame you back into line. Michael Shermer reminds me basically of the shepherd dog. The shepherd dog circles the flock and when a sheep gets out of line, gets out of the circle, wanders off its territory, the dog swoops in and barks it back into the herd and that’s basically what Michael Shermer’s job is, James Randi…

Alex Tsakiris:  Hey man, but that’s what Good Morning’s America’ job is.

Chris Knowles: I see it a little bit differently. I think that Good Morning America and that’s seems to me…

Alex Tsakiris: Well that is certainly what’s VICE’s job is. VICE is…. Vice is, “Hey, the skeptics are dead, the skeptics are over, stick a fork in it.” What gets me is, when you go on VICE and you’re edgy man, you’re hip, you’re cool and they’re doing the same number, they’re sounding like the next round of Michael Shermer’s and saying, “Yes, but we don’t really believe that. We do psychedelics, but we don’t understand how they refute scientific materialism and consciousness being a product of the brain. We don’t go there man, we just stay on this hip cool level.”  I have to take issue with you there. I think Good Morning America, CNM, MSMBC, they are the sheep dogs, they are barking us back into line.

Chris Knowles: That presentation that you showed, that almost reminds of like the new catechism, that reminds me of Sunday school more than… it’s sort of the carrot and the stick and that seems to be more of the carrot end of… that’s the enticement, that’s the honey rather than the vinegar. Do you see what I’m getting at here?  That’s making it all alluring, that’s not using the threat of ostracism and humiliation if you question it. That’s the point I’m trying to make here.

I think it’s an important distinction because you attract more people with honey than with vinegar, but you need the vinegar in certain cases. You need the stick for when the incorrigibles question why there is the twelve-foot alien demon on the roof of one of the most famous art museums in the world. Maybe the second most prominent art museum after the Louvre in Paris, which has the giant glass pyramid in the air.

I was getting towards a specific point and that is that if you look, if you really start to… and this is something that I’ve been really detailing for the past year or so, is that if you really start to look at a lot of the symbolism and it’s becoming more and more apparent and more and more repetitive and this whole entraining process, is that there really is a belief in what Christians and Jews saw as the Nephilim’s, the fallen angels, as the sons of heaven who were painted in books like Enoch as the villains, that they’re seeing as the good guys.

If you actually read Enoch, the watchers come to Earth and they bring technology, they bring gifts, they teach human beings how to civilize themselves, new technologies, how to read the stars, all these sorts of things and a lot of people over time have said, “No those were the good guys. Those weren’t the bad guys, those were the good guys.”  

So, we’re looking at this whole Met Gala and again, this could just be my personal interpterion, blah, blah blah, disclaimer, disclaimer, but it’s like we’re seeing what it looks like, the reconstitution of the iconography and the symbolism of the Church, but all under, like the little ring of this fallen angel up on the roof of the building when which this all took place. The symbolism could not possibly be more crystal clear. I would have to come up to you and start smashing you in the face with a hammer, and screaming at you, for this to be any clearer if people were actually paying attention to what was being said, and the problem is that people don’t pay attention to what’s being said, they pay attention to the way it’s being packaged, the way it’s being represented to them.

Alex Tsakiris: Maybe there’s a reason for that. That’s interesting. I think that’s like a layer or a level three or four kind of discussion that I’d love to have, but let’s try and get that…

Chris Knowles: But I know, there isn’t…

Alex Tsakiris: Hold on, let me just say my piece, let me just say my piece because I want to try and get there because this gets a little bit to the agree to disagree part, because one of the things, the points that you just made, totally valid, you may be right, I may be completely wrong, but you’re suggesting that the imagery, the symbolism and the meaning behind it is so obvious once you pull it apart, and I juxtapose that with all the other stuff that we’ve talked about in terms of the reality bracketing and I’m saying, my point would be, I don’t think you’re being totally fair to the reality of some of those other brackets. The reality that Good Morning America, even though they may be this culture shaping, entrainment vehicle, is also a news organization, is also a profit center. They’re not in the business of going out of business. They don’t have an endless supply of money. They have to have eyeballs. So, they are both responding to the public and leading the public and there’s a subtlety to that.

There’s a reality to fashion, there’s a reality to people who like to find ways to express themselves in different ways and I think sometimes we get into this mode and we’re forced to choose that, “Oh everyone has these crazy esoteric…” kind of thing.” No, only a very few do.

And the other point that I guess I jump in there and make, is that not everything works the way the culture shapers want. So, we have so many dramatic examples of that, but no one saw that fricking thing on the top of The Met. So, if that was supposed to be some big signal that no one got, well no one did get it.

So, to that extent to where they’re trying to put it in your face for an agenda that we’re not really clear of, we have to say, well that’s a fail too. So, I guess I spouted off and…

Chris Knowles: I don’t see it as a fail because I think that the people who were meant to get the signal, got the signal. That story on that sculpture was a major news story in the New York Times, the New York Post and has been in a number of artwork papers. That information was circulated.

Again, the problem that I have with a lot of conspiracy theory is that it’s always like, “Oh, it’s about me,” and the thing that I have been saying since I started the blog is like, I don’t think they really care what we think. I don’t think they care. The people who erect these giant buildings, with these illuminated obelisks and pyramids and all this kind of symbolism, they don’t…

Alex Tsakiris: Of course they do, it’s back to the pitch forks thing. It’s back to the pitch forks, it’s why they’re trying to take away the guns. It’s like, you know, to get into the whole second…

Chris Knowles: No, you…

Alex Tsakiris: Just let me finish, to get into the whole second amendment thing, that we don’t have to and shouldn’t, but it’s so relevant again in this bracket of reality, but one of the realities of that, that I think people don’t get is, you know what, it’s a lot harder to control people when they don’t have guns. And people say, “Well how can that be, they can roll in with tanks, they can roll in with all these super weapons and all this?”  Yes, but it’s still a lot harder than going door to door and trying to disarm people of M16’s.

So, I say that only because that’s another reality. Chris, I would turn it around and say, if what you’re saying is true, is real, then of course they wanted everyone to hear it, of course they wanted everyone to see it. It’s like to switch to another topic again, it’s like the UFO thing that they’ve tried to push out in the last six months and it failed miserably. We don’t know why Tom DeLonge couldn’t carry that water, as the water boy that he was, but he wasn’t able to carry it. But we don’t know why, but our best guess is, they were trying to run a psi-op and it didn’t work. So, the best way to process this stuff I think is that at surface level, they’re trying to run stuff and it doesn’t always work.

Chris Knowles:  No, I agree. Let me just sort of turn that back at you and say, yes, I agree with pretty much everything you just said and the whole thing about the bracket realities and things existing on all these various plains. I think this goes back as long as human history is concerned. I mean this goes back literally to Sumeria and to Babylon, I agree with you.

But, what I’m trying to say is that when you have this gala event and of course again gala is a word meaning priesthood to Ishtar, to Inanna, to Venus, whatever name you want to give her, but I think that there’s an understanding that people who need to understand, understand that a lot of information is meant for public consumption,  a lot of information is meant not for public consumption. I mean, you gain a lot of power and advantage in the market place through secrecy, through confidential information, through proprietary material. You don’t make everything public. The things you want to make public, you make public and I don’t want to say that this whole idea that some grand puppet master is just orchestrating everything we see and do, I think that is ridiculous, I think it’s untenable. I think that logistically it’s a non-starter. But I do think that there are a number of, what we see through corporate consolidation, that it’s much easier to put through a consistent message now than ever before, because even with all the multi-complicity of the internet and things like that, you do have centralization in the media that most of the people in the world consume.

Alex Tsakiris: Sure, but not to get off on another tangent, but I think what you just kind of brushed over there is such a huge, huge counterbalance that it has to be drawn on out, and that’s that, we have greater access to alternative voices, to alternative realities, that it pales by comparison to the amount of consolidation. The fact that people can listen to you and me for free, the fact that people can still Google or Bing or whatever a lot of this stuff and spend days deconstructing this, is just unprecedent, we just can’t point to another time in history. We can point to other places in history where governments, social organizations have been able to completely get a strangle hold on the media, but we haven’t been able to point to other times when there’s been this wide-open access to information, unprecedented information.

Chris Knowles: Yes, well I think that one of the things that I’m very concerned about is the way all the various techniques that are being used to limit choice, to limit availability of ascending voices, to eliminate or to… We see things like shadow banning, we see things like de-platforming, we see things like delisting and there are a lot of ways to not necessary silence someone, but to take away their megaphone. I think that that’s something that everyone should be concerned about.

Now here’s the thing, one of the things that I always try to impart to people is that people who, you know, like a Supervillain so to speak, like a Lex Luther. These people do not see themselves as the villains, they don’t see themselves as bad guys. You do have Satanists in the world, you certainly have a lot of Satanists in the entertainment industry and so on, but they, to me, aren’t the players. The people who really move and shake, you don’t see yourself as the villain and the loser in someone else’s story, you see yourself at the victor. You see yourself as a cut above, you see yourself as transcending these kinds of limitations.

Alex Tsakiris: As the light bearer.

Chris Knowles: Yes, exactly, so I think that when you see these kinds of things like this Met Gala presentation which, I could write a book about this thing. It just boggles my mind and all these different bracket realities at play, it’s like they’ve got all the horses running here, because all the brackets of realties are being manipulated in sync, so to speak. They are all being run at the same time, because this whole, the progress is being operated concurrently.

So, I think that that’s something, it’s very important. There are so many ideas, that we could just have an entire series of three-hour long talks and we wouldn’t even scrape the surface of.

Alex Tsakiris: Hold on, hold on, because I’ve got to say, I have a time limit here, that I have to [unclear 00:27:20] into something. So, I do have to wrap that up, but that was just going to be my point. I want to share with people what I’m not going to be able to talk about today, but I wanted to be able to talk about, because I wanted them to go and check out all this stuff at The Secret Sun and then maybe get back to me and get back to you and tell us if you see it this way.

Here’s another post I was hoping to cover, we’re not going to be able to cover, I titled it as Satan Panicked and you just have an awesome post about Johnny Depp and I think you are spot on, on so many things. But what it really came down to was, these three guys who got, I love this, got entangled in mass hysteria, because anything to do with satanic ritual abuse, of course is hysteria, because that’s how we bracket that reality, there’s no reality to it.

So, I want people to check out that and then I want people to check out your excellent post. You mentioned entrainment many times, is this classic entrainment in terms of telling us about how we should understand our sexuality? “Oh no, let me tell you the truth about robotic sex or sex with fish,” which you have a whole section on your blog when that movie, that recent movie came out.

So, what I’m really hoping people do is, check out your books, check out your excellent blog, which you can see there on the screen, the secretsun.blogspot.com, but in the time we do have left, tell us Chris, what’s coming up for you?  Since I put this thing together you already have two more blog posts up there that I haven’t even touched on. So, what’s coming up? What can people look for from you in the coming weeks and months?

Chris Knowles: Well, I’m glad you asked because one of the things that I really want to touch upon, is something that I know that you’ve discussed with Gordon and that’s this whole idea of Star Magic and the idea of the mystery of the stars and the mystery of certain stars and certain constellations in this.

This is something that I really have to confess I stumbled upon by accident, by following these various steams that I’ve been following over the past year, but I really see as very powerful and very important. That might sound like just completely nebulous but what I think this really boils down to, and this might sound completely off the wall and I understand that, which is why I’m struggling so hard, but the effect of cosmic rays from supernovas on human DNA and human consciousness. I think that this is something that we don’t pay attention to and I think is really important and I think is really behind a lot of the symbolism. It sounds completely off the wall, but it just keeps popping up again and again.

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